Feedback: 7.5 Livestream

[DeannaVoyager]

9 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I don't like the Ghost Binding crap. To me that's not SW's I know it is in some EU stuff (which this is) but I really hate it. I also never play DS because the real world is way too DS for me so I'm not entertained by being evil. So SI is just not for me. To each their own.

You don't have to do choices DS even if you play on imp side. I rarely do, and for the same reasons you listed. 

[JakRoanin]

Oh I know I have 2 LS agents, a very sexy LS SW and my precious Mando BH is totally LS. But I will never ever, do the Ghost Binding crap!

[supertimtaf]

15 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

The team doesn't have much of a leg to stand on right now, in terms of negotiation power. The Star Wars fandom is at each other's throat so bad that the shows are barely performing, merch is moving like cold molasses, and games not named "Fortnite" or "Jedi: something" or "Lego" are likely gonna suffer for a while.

While I agree that the "star wars" side of things is kinda bad for the general public at the moment, the mmo side is still kinda thriving. The best examples right now are ESO who's single-handedly supporting Zenimax Online Studios, while having the same "subscription is optionnal and there's a cash shop" as swtor albeit *way, way less scandalous with their pricings*. The team size is huge, and the wonders they do with the *same engine as swtor* are absolutely incredible. The "engine is a limitation" is true, because swtor has some "tweaks" (to be gentle) to its version of HeroEngine, but it still shows that if you properly support your game you can indeed make a lot of money with it.

The second which comes to mind is XIV, also responsible for single-handedly putting Square Enix out of the near-bankruptcy they were in prior to their 4.0. With a business model that relies solely on subscriptions and paid expansions.

There are a lot of mmos (that aren't the... sh*tshow that is WoW), who are doing very well at the moment, just because they're getting proper financial support from their "overlords", as well as having a team that cares about making a good game. Swtor has neither of those. The updates feels like they're done because they have to (in order to avoid the maintenance mode call), not because they try to make the game better. Part of me would like to actually just play with the devs at some point, talk about various stuff regarding the game, and try to see what they like about their work, because so far it looks like it's just that. Work, pretense, and nothing else. Sad to see that I've worked with indie teams that were both bigger and more passionnate about their -not that good- game than the swtor dev team is about what was *almost* the biggest MMO hit of the past decade.

 

15 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

I personally think KotET itself is fine

Story-wise, it was... Okay. As a standalone title I'd have liked it much more. Trying to shove it in swtor's timeline and story was a bad move from the start. The "monthly chapters" style of updates was quite bad too, as none were substantial enough to keep me interested. It was just "the one hour long novelty" for a bit then I never did those again. Uprisings were... Surprisingly okay. Wish they'd have done more of those. Everything else about this expansion was quite bad, apart PvP Balance&Gearing who was surprisingly one of the best we ever had, if not *the best*. Still, you can't hook players and keep them interested with only one hour of story every two months and nothing else. That was a missplay that they're still struggling to overcome now.

[Gamer_Auto]

13 hours ago, supertimtaf said:

While I agree that the "star wars" side of things is kinda bad for the general public at the moment, the mmo side is still kinda thriving. The best examples right now are ESO who's single-handedly supporting Zenimax Online Studios, while having the same "subscription is optionnal and there's a cash shop" as swtor albeit *way, way less scandalous with their pricings*. The team size is huge, and the wonders they do with the *same engine as swtor* are absolutely incredible. The "engine is a limitation" is true, because swtor has some "tweaks" (to be gentle) to its version of HeroEngine, but it still shows that if you properly support your game you can indeed make a lot of money with it.

The second which comes to mind is XIV, also responsible for single-handedly putting Square Enix out of the near-bankruptcy they were in prior to their 4.0. With a business model that relies solely on subscriptions and paid expansions.

There are a lot of mmos (that aren't the... sh*tshow that is WoW), who are doing very well at the moment, just because they're getting proper financial support from their "overlords", as well as having a team that cares about making a good game. Swtor has neither of those. The updates feels like they're done because they have to (in order to avoid the maintenance mode call), not because they try to make the game better. Part of me would like to actually just play with the devs at some point, talk about various stuff regarding the game, and try to see what they like about their work, because so far it looks like it's just that. Work, pretense, and nothing else. Sad to see that I've worked with indie teams that were both bigger and more passionnate about their -not that good- game than the swtor dev team is about what was *almost* the biggest MMO hit of the past decade.

While the "MMO" part of the game is an important part, I would argue that the "Star Wars" part of it eclipses it, just as the "Final Fantasy" part of FF14 and the "Elder Scrolls" part of TESO eclipse their own MMO natures.

Another thing to consider is the suit side of it; in this case EA, whose current higher-ups (last I heard) have little interest in Star Wars beyond what makes money. And so long as SWTOR makes any kind of money, no matter how small, they likely don't care how little funding it has. I'd assume that their current stance (the real one, not the corpo-speak one) is something along the lines of "Make do with what you have; and if you stop making, we shutter you."

 

13 hours ago, supertimtaf said:

Story-wise, it was... Okay. As a standalone title I'd have liked it much more. Trying to shove it in swtor's timeline and story was a bad move from the start. The "monthly chapters" style of updates was quite bad too, as none were substantial enough to keep me interested. It was just "the one hour long novelty" for a bit then I never did those again. Uprisings were... Surprisingly okay. Wish they'd have done more of those. Everything else about this expansion was quite bad, apart PvP Balance&Gearing who was surprisingly one of the best we ever had, if not *the best*. Still, you can't hook players and keep them interested with only one hour of story every two months and nothing else. That was a missplay that they're still struggling to overcome now.

The main part that makes the entire Alliance arc feel significantly different - at least to me - is that it feels like a soft reboot. The player is renamed "The Outlander" and then "The Commander" and doesn't get his previous title back until the end of JUS; the story (including Forged Alliances & SoR) turned to a one-track deal (no separate Pub & Imp perspectives), and the majority of the story-relevant companions are either new, have some connection to the story (Theron & Lana were heavily involved in the lead-up), or bring some other significant skill to the initial Alliance Crew lineup (Scorpio's connections and tech savvy, Jorgan's soldier training, Kaliyo's penchant for destruction, T7's utility as a proto-Astromech, Gault & Vette's infiltration capabilities).

If anything, the Alliance Arc feels like it should have been a standalone Single Player title with little to zero connection to the original 8 Origins; outside of obviously being a continuation of SoR. But there's no use in pondering could haves and should haves when we only have what is.

[joshuadyal]

21 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

Oh I know I have 2 LS agents, a very sexy LS SW and my precious Mando BH is totally LS. But I will never ever, do the Ghost Binding crap!

To me, the SI's problem wasn't the ghost-binding and how un-Star Wars it felt. The problem was that it felt like a farce that didn't fully commit and still tried to pretend sometimes like it was a serious story about serious characters.

[joshuadyal]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:28 PM, JakRoanin said:

See I don't like my PC's being the center of the universe, they are not Gods, they are beings in a larger contextual galaxy. I like that they can't control their circumstances. Life happens and they live it, just like the rest of us, or Mando and Grogu.

I don't like that either. That's been a failing of Star Wars since the very beginning in 1977, though. I don't need to be the center of the universe either, but I would like to be the center of my own story about my own character, at least.

Edited May 12 by joshuadyal

[joshuadyal]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:15 PM, DuchessKristania said:

 I don't think Sa'har comes off as a girl boss, more a confused and kind of boring character. She's just not for me.

I already didn't like her before we even saw her in game. That smirk to Darth Malgus in the trailer just told me already that I wasn't going to like her.

[JakRoanin]

The problem with Sa'har is her lack of context. Had she been a Padawan of one of the "Children of the Emperor" that JC encountered she would have a bigger emotional impact. The only classes who knew anything about the "Children" were JC and JK which kind of makes her irrelevant to all the other classes. That said I don't hate her, I just feel like she should have been a padawan to someone all classes heard of.

[Hrafnhildur]

4 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

The problem with Sa'har is her lack of context. Had she been a Padawan of one of the "Children of the Emperor" that JC encountered she would have a bigger emotional impact. The only classes who knew anything about the "Children" were JC and JK which kind of makes her irrelevant to all the other classes. That said I don't hate her, I just feel like she should have been a padawan to someone all classes heard of.

This and also her lack of understanding of the Jedi Code. She acts very emotional all the time, which makes her a candidate for the corrupted to the Dark Side apprentice post. 

Then, her utter stupidity : she finds her brother, he's now a Mando loyal to a faction of rebels and gives him the holocron?? What does she think will happen? In all her time in the Jedi Temple, she didn't had the chance to read about the Cadera rebellion? 

[JakRoanin]

Ok I'm gonna get called a Disney shill and whatnot but I do not care. Has there ever been a depiction of a padawan that hasn't been an emo pain in the tush? TPM Obi-Wan whining about Qui-Gon not following the code, and blathering about "pathetic lifeforms" Luke, ANH and part of ESB, (don't deny it its true). Ahsoka's first year? Her nickname is Snips! Okay, Grogu was only an initiate both in the prequels and at Luke's on Ossus but please. Literally the only Padawan that hasn't been portrayed as a giant pain at least once, is Qui-Gon in Tales of the Jedi. Sa'har is a perfectly prototypical Padawan for Star Wars.

I didn't include Cal or Caleb/Kanan because we only see them as Proper Padawans during Order 66 doesn't count.

[DuchessKristania]

In fairness, during their brat phases I've never found any character to be engaging. The thing with the canon characters is that we see them more because it's in a heavier narrative medium. Unfortunately for characters like Sa'har the mmo story format doesn't leave a lot of room for the same level of development and character bonding. That's not always the case, but I think with this game it tends to be true.

That being said, to each their own. I've never really felt the need to convince people to dislike characters I dislike. I dislike them, doesn't mean anyone else has to.  I rather like that each character has their fans, it creates more immersion for me if I see players running around with all different companions, looks more alive and natural to me that way.

[JakRoanin]

I'm not a Sa'Har fan, I don't hate her either, but as far as how SW's does Proper Padawans, she is typical. Then again, what teen/young adult isn't a wreck while maturing? I was, I'm now 40, and I can confidently say I was, it's called growing up.

[eabevella]

19 hours ago, Hrafnhildur said:

This and also her lack of understanding of the Jedi Code. She acts very emotional all the time, which makes her a candidate for the corrupted to the Dark Side apprentice post. 

Then, her utter stupidity : she finds her brother, he's now a Mando loyal to a faction of rebels and gives him the holocron?? What does she think will happen? In all her time in the Jedi Temple, she didn't had the chance to read about the Cadera rebellion? 

My one problem is, if you never watch the promotional trailer, you won't know who or what the f*** is going on with Sa'Har because the actual "expansion" does absolutely nothing explaining her motive. Imagine doesn't know who or what the heck is going on between Cpt. America and the Winter Soldier if you've never watch the movie trailer, that would be a total fail.

That's the problem with all the main 7.0 NPCs. The writers can't write OUR characters as the MAIN characters because OUR characters have almost no flavor ever since KOTxx, especially the non-Force users. They also cannot write the NPCs as the main characters because those NPCs aren't even companions we can spend time and get to know them more. There are also no in game cutscenes to let us know the NPCs more.

We never see Sa'Har does anything other than standing next to her brother like he beats her up all the time until the point she's not. We never see her struggling with the influence of the Nul holocron. We never see her mourning her master. We never see how her vision of happy family reunion crumbles - the actual process not the "my brother beats me up if I say a thing" look she has on her face 24/7 (on a personal note: the "realistic" skin texture is so ugly I can't look at her face and takes her seriously). Instead of sympathizing with her, I only think she's a pathetic barely plot device.

[Traceguy]

 

8 hours ago, eabevella said:

on a personal note: the "realistic" skin texture is so ugly I can't look at her face and takes her seriously

I've felt the same way since they first introduced Sa'har and Ri'kan. It's hard to look at.

Edited May 13 by Traceguy