#NerfJugg/Guardian

[TereusMitchell]

Now that I have the attention of every Jugg / Guardian who browse the forums (and most likely not the Devs), I want to convey my extreme distaste for Jugg / Guardian (specifically DPS).  While I know that many will instantly nay-say, hate, or adamantly argue the point that it's not "broken asf", the following is my opinion as a guild leader, raid leader, and person who has consistently played since launch and watched the evolution of disparity regarding jugg / guardian.

"Meta" of the meta

While I concur that Jugg / Guardian DPS can be fun, the following is the short-hand of why it's a BS class that needs a nerf:

• It's 5 buttons & 3 fills, with (5) DCDs
• It makes players worse at the game (because it's so broken) leading to a degradation of player skill, leading to more whining, leading to more content nerfs (Like every SM raid in the game).
• CtP disparity is irrefutable (just check parsely.io).
• While direct damage classes are absolutely king atm, once again disparity in classes even with Hemo (again just check parsely.io).
• The vast majority of players still play it on a complete potato level.
• Because (we) can do things like this:
• Queen 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIwJ189vFI
• Toborros 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aGjIz8JMs8
• 5/7 SnV 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62EoTm6y55s
• Nefra 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ARd5AxeJWg

"But you already nerfed my Jugg / Guardian!!!"

• Shatter Burst now does 50% more initial damage instead of that 2s CD!!!! -> literally go to 10% alacrity -> broken asf.
• Counter: Aside from Hatred lacerate spam CtP is the most BS tactical in the game (PvP and PvE) and you let it ride, while "rebalancing" things like energized vambrace? Really....

Memes aside:

We're beyond just needing a "balance" of Jugg / Guardian at this point, and while I agree that:

1. It can be a fun class to play.
2. The vast majority of players who are also fans of the force enjoy / play this class.
3. Casual / Non-competitive players can be more competitive / competent "learning" the basics of this class.

The disparity of Jugg / Guardian vs. All is on or above the arguable class disparity of Force vs. Tech users, and Direct vs. DoT at the moment....or even Merc & Sorc Heals vs. Op heals in HM / NiM.  Now with all that said, the post title is just a gas-light.  I / Many would be more than happy leaving Jugg / Guardian where it is, as long as the other classes get brought up to the stupid levels of survivability / utility / damage of Juggs / Guardians.  The game used to "tier" classes in basic, intermediate, advanced play terms, now it's just "how hard do I want to work for my DPS, at what APM".

Lets be real, since you've started the "accessibility" of gear, the end-game content is a joke, especially since people doing NiM Nef / Dash runs only are rapidly (denying) that we've hit the critical mass of over-gearing to compensate for mediocrity.  Literally...just parse any pug run / the vast majority of "guilds that raid".  I get that many players are casual, solo players, that want all the shinies, but do we really need to keep making the game "easier" and the "best gear" accessible to people who don't raid anything outside first bosses, or live in spammer station, while continuing to make all content easier across the board?

Again, all this is my opinion, but if we're thinking long term longevity, is pandering to potatoes really the answer?

[DeannaVoyager]

1 hour ago, TereusMitchell said:

Now that I have the attention of every Jugg / Guardian who browse the forums (and most likely not the Devs), I want to convey my extreme distaste for Jugg / Guardian (specifically DPS).  While I know that many will instantly nay-say, hate, or adamantly argue the point that it's not "broken asf", the following is my opinion as a guild leader, raid leader, and person who has consistently played since launch and watched the evolution of disparity regarding jugg / guardian.

"Meta" of the meta

While I concur that Jugg / Guardian DPS can be fun, the following is the short-hand of why it's a BS class that needs a nerf:

• It's 5 buttons & 3 fills, with (5) DCDs
• It makes players worse at the game (because it's so broken) leading to a degradation of player skill, leading to more whining, leading to more content nerfs (Like every SM raid in the game).
• CtP disparity is irrefutable (just check parsely.io).
• While direct damage classes are absolutely king atm, once again disparity in classes even with Hemo (again just check parsely.io).
• The vast majority of players still play it on a complete potato level.
• Because (we) can do things like this:
• Queen 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDIwJ189vFI
• Toborros 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aGjIz8JMs8
• 5/7 SnV 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62EoTm6y55s
• Nefra 3M / No heals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ARd5AxeJWg

"But you already nerfed my Jugg / Guardian!!!"

• Shatter Burst now does 50% more initial damage instead of that 2s CD!!!! -> literally go to 10% alacrity -> broken asf.
• Counter: Aside from Hatred lacerate spam CtP is the most BS tactical in the game (PvP and PvE) and you let it ride, while "rebalancing" things like energized vambrace? Really....

Memes aside:

We're beyond just needing a "balance" of Jugg / Guardian at this point, and while I agree that:

1. It can be a fun class to play.
2. The vast majority of players who are also fans of the force enjoy / play this class.
3. Casual / Non-competitive players can be more competitive / competent "learning" the basics of this class.

The disparity of Jugg / Guardian vs. All is on or above the arguable class disparity of Force vs. Tech users, and Direct vs. DoT at the moment....or even Merc & Sorc Heals vs. Op heals in HM / NiM.  Now with all that said, the post title is just a gas-light.  I / Many would be more than happy leaving Jugg / Guardian where it is, as long as the other classes get brought up to the stupid levels of survivability / utility / damage of Juggs / Guardians.  The game used to "tier" classes in basic, intermediate, advanced play terms, now it's just "how hard do I want to work for my DPS, at what APM".

Lets be real, since you've started the "accessibility" of gear, the end-game content is a joke, especially since people doing NiM Nef / Dash runs only are rapidly (denying) that we've hit the critical mass of over-gearing to compensate for mediocrity.  Literally...just parse any pug run / the vast majority of "guilds that raid".  I get that many players are casual, solo players, that want all the shinies, but do we really need to keep making the game "easier" and the "best gear" accessible to people who don't raid anything outside first bosses, or live in spammer station, while continuing to make all content easier across the board?

Again, all this is my opinion, but if we're thinking long term longevity, is pandering to potatoes really the answer?

Good to know juggs are now meta. Strangely enough I thought it was hatred sin. Here's the current leaderboard btw: https://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard

Oh wait, it is hatred sin. Hint on how to find those pesky juggs: requires some scrolling

Considering you are saying a) juggs are too easy to play b) majority of the playerbase play it on a potato level and c) it's "broken" all in one post, it's really difficult to see what is the problem you are having with them. A and B are the opposites, but you use them both as a reason to call for a nerf. Is it maybe jealousy on their aoe capabilities or what? Yes, that aoe will be just awesome in Brontes burn and other single boss fights... 🙄 

Here's a thought: if you think juggs are broken, maybe the other players in your team are not performing on the level they should be.

 

As a guild and a raid leader you can just ban juggernauts and guardians from your raids (and guild) if you dislike them so much. No need to impose it on the rest of the playerbase. 

[Traceguy]

No. No more nerfing. Especially not Jugg. Delete this post. You want to go home and rethink your life.

If you're too strong, strip down to 324 greens.

[captainbladejk]

As a guild leader and raid leader, you can pick and choose who you allow in and who you don't. Juggs are fine as they are and don't need to be nerfed. One person disliking juggs is not a valid reason on its own nerf them. If one wishes to get rid of a meta, you buff the under-performing stuff because it's not being played for a reason. Nerfing the stuff that's actually performing save in very VERY specific circumstances is not going to want to make people play something else, it's going to want to make them quit. If you feel you are still too strong, play something else or as the above poster said, strip down to 324 greens. I will never understand why some want to demand something be nerfed for everyone else because of their personal dislike.