Stop asking, Sniper will Never be BUFFED!

[saravall]

Playing Sniper since launch and being one of those responsible for the original nerf to the class, I can tell you a buff will never happen.

PVE: The original Sniper Green Goo did up to 20% more DPS than all other classes when using the proper rotation on ops bosses. That was not the original intent of the developers, and they did not know this till after MM came out. So, optimized 16-man MM were 2 tanks, 3 heals, 1 marauder, 10 snipers. The healers were also doing off DPS because our ballistic shield could stack, and the tanks were taking very little damage. Imagine taking the boss down 10% in the first 4 seconds with 10 Orbital Strikes coming in. That came to 16 DPS (10 Snipers = 12 other classes) classes hitting the boss all the time instead of the intended 10. I really hate Star Pars (I play SWTOR to get away from the mods and addon's) and was very upset an operative I played with posted my numbers. The Nerf Bat hit hard when Rise of the Hutt Cartel came out and we have never been the same since.

PVP: The original Sniper/Gunslinger was built almost like a ranged tank. You took little damage and could control anyone that got close to you. Again very OP. The problem is they went too far in dropping our mitigation. The effect is today, we have problems in PVE because of them focusing on PVP. Playing PVE tank or Sniper I always notice the sniper taking more DMG than all the other classes. They forced too much natural defense to be optional and sacrifice our offensive capability. If you were to add more defense to your build you would be none viable in any of the specs for PVE end game. So, you learn to stand right next to the healer and yell at him you are dying because you are taking almost as much dmg as the tank.  

Open World PVE/Heroics: Sniper/Gunslinger Marksman/Whatever is almost God mode today. I have no complaints there. I play all classes every week and Sniper are by far the most efficient time wise conquest class in game. I do conquest on up to 27 toons a week, so I know what I am talking about. As a Sniper, with the best, hardest hitting insta cast AOE in game I tear through group MOBS as if they are not even there. Three zones, heroic/CZ198/Ossus =100k Conquest in less than 45 min. Sniper/Gunslinger is my go too secondary class on all my tech classes for this reason. Heck I am leveling a Commando in Gunslinger spec just for the AOE.

Last: Sniper/Gunslinger is one of the tougher rotations and least forgiving to learn. If you do anything wrong, you basically must start your rotation over. Sit at a training dummy for a couple hours and learn the rotation. You will know when you screw up the rotation if you are properly geared (min/max) and are waiting on a cool down to come back up. You don’t need Star Pars (I refuse to ever use again). If you use the proper rotation, you will do mid-level (about 3^rd class) high end DPS.

I love the Sniper/Gunslinger and wouldn't mind the days of old but understand why the nerfs did occur. I just wish they would not worry so much about PVP and think about the effect defensive changes has on PVE. 

[Xerekfell]

1 hour ago, saravall said:

Playing Sniper since launch and being one of those responsible for the original nerf to the class, I can tell you a buff will never happen.

PVE: The original Sniper Green Goo did up to 20% more DPS than all other classes when using the proper rotation on ops bosses. That was not the original intent of the developers, and they did not know this till after MM came out. So, optimized 16-man MM were 2 tanks, 3 heals, 1 marauder, 10 snipers. The healers were also doing off DPS because our ballistic shield could stack, and the tanks were taking very little damage. Imagine taking the boss down 10% in the first 4 seconds with 10 Orbital Strikes coming in. That came to 16 DPS (10 Snipers = 12 other classes) classes hitting the boss all the time instead of the intended 10. I really hate Star Pars (I play SWTOR to get away from the mods and addon's) and was very upset an operative I played with posted my numbers. The Nerf Bat hit hard when Rise of the Hutt Cartel came out and we have never been the same since.

PVP: The original Sniper/Gunslinger was built almost like a ranged tank. You took little damage and could control anyone that got close to you. Again very OP. The problem is they went too far in dropping our mitigation. The effect is today, we have problems in PVE because of them focusing on PVP. Playing PVE tank or Sniper I always notice the sniper taking more DMG than all the other classes. They forced too much natural defense to be optional and sacrifice our offensive capability. If you were to add more defense to your build you would be none viable in any of the specs for PVE end game. So, you learn to stand right next to the healer and yell at him you are dying because you are taking almost as much dmg as the tank.  

Open World PVE/Heroics: Sniper/Gunslinger Marksman/Whatever is almost God mode today. I have no complaints there. I play all classes every week and Sniper are by far the most efficient time wise conquest class in game. I do conquest on up to 27 toons a week, so I know what I am talking about. As a Sniper, with the best, hardest hitting insta cast AOE in game I tear through group MOBS as if they are not even there. Three zones, heroic/CZ198/Ossus =100k Conquest in less than 45 min. Sniper/Gunslinger is my go too secondary class on all my tech classes for this reason. Heck I am leveling a Commando in Gunslinger spec just for the AOE.

Last: Sniper/Gunslinger is one of the tougher rotations and least forgiving to learn. If you do anything wrong, you basically must start your rotation over. Sit at a training dummy for a couple hours and learn the rotation. You will know when you screw up the rotation if you are properly geared (min/max) and are waiting on a cool down to come back up. You don’t need Star Pars (I refuse to ever use again). If you use the proper rotation, you will do mid-level (about 3^rd class) high end DPS.

I love the Sniper/Gunslinger and wouldn't mind the days of old but understand why the nerfs did occur. I just wish they would not worry so much about PVP and think about the effect defensive changes has on PVE. 

The only spec that needs a buff on sniper is MM. All they need to do is make Agitating Energies apart of the spec and possibly make Followthrough a Kinetic Ability so something on the spec benefits from armor break other than Ambush. They could also make the 20% crit dmg inc on Snipe a spec passive to increase overall dps.  The only real way to do numbers on MM is to take the 20% crit dmg inc and spam suppressive fire when people stack. Not exactly a fulfilling way to play Sniper.

Edited January 24 by Xerekfell

[Zunayson]

On 1/24/2024 at 11:05 AM, saravall said:

The original Sniper Green Goo did up to 20% more DPS than all other classes when using the proper rotation on ops bosses. That was not the original intent of the developers, and they did not know this till after MM came out. So, optimized 16-man MM were 2 tanks, 3 heals, 1 marauder, 10 snipers.

I'm curious what exactly it was at launch. I remember the MM skill tree and how it was different in 1.x but did it really do that much damage? I would have guessed ops took 10 snipers because if I remember correctly, Diversion actually affected ops bosses so 10 snipers could give the group insane damage mitigation for 90 seconds! Do you have any videos or forum posts?

On 1/24/2024 at 12:15 PM, Xerekfell said:

Followthrough a Kinetic Ability so something on the spec benefits from armor break other than Ambush

This is confusing to me all over the place.

[Xerekfell]

2 hours ago, Zunayson said:

 

This is confusing to me all over the place.

I was saying they should make Followthrough a Kinetic Ability. Followthrough on MM is White Dmg and doesn't benefit from armor break(Sunder) unless it's specified that it does like Carnage with Ferocity when using Gore, Ravage, and Massacre.

[AdjeYo]

23 minutes ago, Xerekfell said:

I was saying they should make Followthrough a Kinetic Ability. Followthrough on MM is White Dmg and doesn't benefit from armor break(Sunder) unless it's specified that it does like Carnage with Ferocity when using Gore, Ravage, and Massacre.

It is energy damage, which is equivalent in every way to kinetic damage. (that is why force lightning and telekinetic throw are equivalent, even though one is energy and one is kinetic). 

White damage means it's melee or ranged (in this case ranged). All melee and ranged damage is kinetic or energy. And all kinetic and energy damage benefits from armour break (because it is mitigated by armor). Only internal and elemental damage, which is always force or tech (yellow) doesn't benefit from armor break. (Because internal and elemental damage aren't mitigated by armor) 

[Ajalkaar]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:05 PM, saravall said:

Playing Sniper since launch and being one of those responsible for the original nerf to the class, I can tell you a buff will never happen.

PVE: The original Sniper Green Goo did up to 20% more DPS than all other classes when using the proper rotation on ops bosses. That was not the original intent of the developers, and they did not know this till after MM came out. So, optimized 16-man MM were 2 tanks, 3 heals, 1 marauder, 10 snipers. The healers were also doing off DPS because our ballistic shield could stack, and the tanks were taking very little damage. Imagine taking the boss down 10% in the first 4 seconds with 10 Orbital Strikes coming in. That came to 16 DPS (10 Snipers = 12 other classes) classes hitting the boss all the time instead of the intended 10. I really hate Star Pars (I play SWTOR to get away from the mods and addon's) and was very upset an operative I played with posted my numbers. The Nerf Bat hit hard when Rise of the Hutt Cartel came out and we have never been the same since.

How sniper worked in 10 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with 7.0 class balancing so this is irrelevent.

 

 

On 1/24/2024 at 5:05 PM, saravall said:

Open World PVE/Heroics: Sniper/Gunslinger Marksman/Whatever is almost God mode today. I have no complaints there. I play all classes every week and Sniper are by far the most efficient time wise conquest class in game. I do conquest on up to 27 toons a week, so I know what I am talking about. As a Sniper, with the best, hardest hitting insta cast AOE in game I tear through group MOBS as if they are not even there. Three zones, heroic/CZ198/Ossus =100k Conquest in less than 45 min. Sniper/Gunslinger is my go too secondary class on all my tech classes for this reason. Heck I am leveling a Commando in Gunslinger spec just for the AOE.

Last: Sniper/Gunslinger is one of the tougher rotations and least forgiving to learn. If you do anything wrong, you basically must start your rotation over. Sit at a training dummy for a couple hours and learn the rotation. You will know when you screw up the rotation if you are properly geared (min/max) and are waiting on a cool down to come back up. You don’t need Star Pars (I refuse to ever use again). If you use the proper rotation, you will do mid-level (about 3^rd class) high end DPS.

Also irrelevent they shouldn't balance based on open world content but based on endgame content and marksman is a trash spec in PvE and PvP. 

"one of the tougher rotation to learn" mm and viru are one of the most easy spec in the game. There's nothing such as "starting your rotation over" It's only for people who have no clue how the spec works, even for engi.

Saying that they are balancing sniper around PvP is such a stupid statement. In 7.0 sniper had no more heals no more evasion except for its 3s counterpart and no more control (because you'll never take stun over pw or ballistic shield). Basically the only natural dcd's for sniper in 7.0 was shield probe and roll.
The only changed thay made from now is to bring back cover offheals (its buffed version) that's all.

What about engi and T0-R0 tactical haven't any nerf about it and the current state of marksman haven't any buff either (also this is not only for PvP).

They don't even have the knowledge and skills to balance based on PvP or endgame PvE. There's tens of solid propositions made by skilled players for sniper balancing but devs are just not involved anymore and that's the real reason why sniper might not get buffed and not what you said.