What classes need to be nerfed in pvp?

[Zunayson]

3 hours ago, Monterone said:

Mobility is king in pvp and marksman has very little in tools to affect it, single target or AoE.

Except double channeled root (4s) and knockback. Also, without a reliance on dots, you're more likely to get the full 5 seconds root off with Cover Pulse.

The synergy with seek cover and roll is very good too. Marksman is the most kiting heavy spec. In many matchups it's literally a better idea to just run away than to shoot. It's a bit boring tbh. 

[sauerkraut]

Smugglers-Agents need nerfing their endless rollings. In HB it's ridiculous how they just fly through every obstacle.

[darksidenerd]

It's not a shock why everyone is rolling a Merc/Mano/Sniper now-a-days.  They're the easiest to counter the more pain in the but classes that, 'roll' / 'root'. 
There is nothing more frustrating than being a melee class with no cleanse/long cd for slows and movement impairing effects, trying to chase down an OP/Sniper/GS. 

Roll a toon that shoots = winning. 

 

[SentinalMasterWW]

Regarding specs that need to be buffed or nerfed here are my two cents. 

Regarding Mercenary/Commando in general, they need Propulsion Round back by default, make and replace its slot with smoke screen. Already there you fix the specs issues. 

Innovative Ordinance/Assault Specialist - Give them Passive DOT Reduction, DOT's are crazy nowadays and giving Merc some DR reduction on DOT's especially their DOT class would go a long way. Just copy Virulence Sniper and have the hyper assault Rounds do this.

Quote

Your periodic damaging effects don't tick on targets affected by any of your sleep effects. In addition, you always take 30% reduced damage from periodic effects

And it would make sense, most DOT classes in the game have DOT DMG reduction, IO surprisingly doesn't have it.

Regarding Gunnery, It needs something to proc Demolition Round and crit with it, and if it is on cooldown reset it. Obviously put a cooldown on how often you can proc this, but it would go a long way in fixing some of Gunnery's issues. 

Regarding Marauders, Just add obfuscate back and make Force stun given by default. I'd also buff Fury Marauder as it is falling a bit behind in terms of its DPS and is outclassed currently by Carnage. 

Operatives, I honestly feel like they need to do something with Operative healer, it's fine but I feel like its lagging a bit behind its peers currently. Concealment should get a DMG buff as well, its useable but it needs to be buffed for its DPS. 

Shadow/Assassin feel fine, so I'd leave them where they are at though, I wouldn't mind them removing cleaving cut from the tree and adding something that is actually good. 

Powertech/Vanguard, I feel that Shield Tech is struggling to find its place in the Tank meta right now, its not really great at anything. Sin tanks bring a lot of control while Juggernaut tanks are obviously broken with their DPS.  I know people hated neural trigger but it at least gave them some strong ability. I'd add back Stealth scan and Electro Dart as default for the class, just to give it some utility. But i'd welcome ideas on fixing VG/PT tanks. 

Juggernaut/Guardian, Rage obviously needs some lowered DPS output, Jug tank needs MASSIVELY lowered DPS as well, its not uncommon to see them hitting over 100K crits. In return, Jug's should get Blade Blitz by default for extra mobility. 

Sniper/Slingers, Buff Marksman obviously, I would remove B-0 Differential and integrate it into the spec, Remove the DMG bonus and just make it so that Rolling makes your ambush activate instantly. Regarding Engi's just remove ionic, the spec is fine, but Ionic breaks the game balances and i kid you not I once saw someone get a 170K crit, this is completely imbalanced and shouldn't be in the game. 

I'd also remove the roll reset on evasive maneuvers and instead just make it roll heal, and in doing so make evasion its own ability again.

Sorcs/Sorcerer's

Remove Torturous tactics, it should never have been added, replace it with either an ability from past or make it a okay general passive.

Madness just has to nerfed, people say it isnt broken, but it is, went 60-0 last night and it was stupid how often I could heal back up. There are various ways as I have stated many many times. 

1. Nerf Force leach 

2. Nerf passive Healing. 

3. Increase the cooldown on force speed. 

4. Remove Deathbrand and replace it with the deadly field passive that hatred has. 

 

 

Edited February 9 by SentinalMasterWW

[TrixxieTriss]

34 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Regarding Marauders, Just add obfuscate back and make Force stun given by default. I'd also buff Fury Marauder as it is falling a bit behind in terms of its DPS and is outclassed currently by Carnage. 

As Fury is one of my main PvP specs, I feel I need to offer my input here. I agree with obfuscate & stun being given back as default. But I don’t believe Fury needs a buff in DPS. Carnage has always been designed to produce higher sustained DPS, Fury should always produce less sustained DPS, but have higher burst. I don’t feel there is anything wrong with Fury’s current burst. 

[TrixxieTriss]

43 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Juggernaut/Guardian, Rage obviously needs some lowered DPS output, Jug tank needs MASSIVELY lowered DPS as well, its not uncommon to see them hitting over 100K crits. In return, Jug's should get Blade Blitz by default for extra mobility. 

Rage Jugg is my other main melee main. There is nothing wrong with Rage jugg DPS output at all. It’s right where it needs to be. But I do agree that blade blitz could be added back as a default ability. Juggs are one of the least mobile classes without BB. Either that or remove the restricting limit on leap. 

I also agree that skank tanks are a problem & produce too much DPS. But you need to be careful nerfing tanks or they become useless in both PvP & PvE. The solution to Skanks is adjust how much power/mastery can be applied to tanks before it flat lines on scale of diminishing returns. 

Edited February 9 by TrixxieTriss

[Beyrahl]

22 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

And it would make sense, most DOT classes in the game have DOT DMG reduction, IO surprisingly doesn't have it.

DoT DR doesn't save the archaic design of the class. It's a damage sponge and likely always will be, when the damage gets lower everyone's defenses are stronger. Mercenary/Juggernaut becomes quite intolerable when damage does ever get lower. Ideally, instead of reflecting mercenary would have made use of another DR defensive and generally would make it a much worse target for tunneling, while also just removing the bad play of reflecting at max hp just because.

25 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Regarding Gunnery, It needs something to proc Demolition Round and crit with it, and if it is on cooldown reset it. Obviously put a cooldown on how often you can proc this, but it would go a long way in fixing some of Gunnery's issues. 

Heatseeker should be the auto critical over rail shot, as for sustain, both carnage and arsenal should see its 3% accuracy from the cylinder/form back if not a bolster of 10% accuracy, in general, would be nice to see, though this would hurt sorcerers and assassins they could easily do anything else but adding in RNG.
Damage spread is on the issues regarding several specs Arsenal being one of them, annihilation another, fury is now included, Virulence without dot explosion (though still strong, it's relatively reliant on a sustained target). Another bad spread is MM which requires a bit too much channeling which shows its head-like arsenal issues with archaic design. Roll ambush is a creative way to help with it, though I think it should be a talent or baseline instead, without the damage amplification, which seems to be a common occurrence they forget the sniper has a laze target giving it a free auto critical and when you stack any % dmg increase on those it's massive. Anyway..

36 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Regarding Marauders, Just add obfuscate back and make Force stun given by default. I'd also buff Fury Marauder as it is falling a bit behind in terms of its DPS and is outclassed currently by Carnage. 

The ruthless aggressor is fine, obfuscate base ability doesn't need to exist. Giving it either a baseline or an undying baseline should happen. Durability is the issue. A stun is nice but I think we should either move towards less cc or give it all back. So what happened to mara should be passed down to others. 
Furys damage is turned into more of a parser sustained spec due to its auto-critical removal. Players would click off their stacks during parses to inflate their DPS and parse times. It was not legit and was barely applicable if ever in actual raids and neigh impossible to practically make use of it in PvP. It was strong for sure, but not as strong as it was looking on parsely.io. They seemingly also fixed this issue and should add it back, that'd solve its issues, it's a pure damage class that has 2/3 specs purely reliant on sustain, while one is semi-sustain but can burst better than the other two simply due to a busted tactical and having an implant that gives it an auto critical. Crazy that just having an auto-critical change specs completely, was something I brought up in 6.0 that made and broke meta with the exceptions of pyro & leth then elemental conv.

41 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Operatives, I honestly feel like they need to do something with Operative healer, it's fine but I feel like its lagging a bit behind its peers currently. Concealment should get a DMG buff as well, its useable but it needs to be buffed for its DPS. 

Revitalizers were huge, it should be a thing, no damage reduction is just unhealthy along with no stun dr. I am fine with no stun dr but no dr in general is unbearable. 
Concealment has no issues for its damage and has two different playstyles for sustain and a more focused brust. Its issue is less ability to heal, no damage reduction that's worth anything & in general reliance on 4-meter abilities that get completely ruined by roots and slow without a move speed buff of its own (evasion helps).
 

44 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Shadow/Assassin feel fine, so I'd leave them where they are at though, I wouldn't mind them removing cleaving cut from the tree and adding something that is actually good. 

Tree rework and adding back a long shroud should be a thing. Movement options become baked in or more available to be picked. Hatred getting even slightly some DR would go a long way for the spec, overcharge saber being baseline would also in general be nice. The class is weak and only excels in certain areas and those areas most players whine about it being too strong, when in fact the whole situation they're dealing with is unbalanced by default.
 

48 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

'd also remove the roll reset on evasive maneuvers and instead just make it roll heal, and in doing so make evasion its own ability again.

I think it's fine, though I would like a roll to heal with a CD reduction to 15s CD as a talent.
 

49 minutes ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Sorcs/Sorcerer's

Remove Torturous tactics, it should never have been added, replace it with either an ability from past or make it a okay general passive.

Madness just has to nerfed, people say it isnt broken, but it is, went 60-0 last night and it was stupid how often I could heal back up. There are various ways as I have stated many many times. 

1. Nerf Force leach 

2. Nerf passive Healing. 

3. Increase the cooldown on force speed. 

4. Remove Deathbrand and replace it with the deadly field passive that hatred has. 

Individual performance against people who don't have you as a priority or even care about dealing with you isn't very important. Put it in a scenario of an arena, hypothetically, do you think you're going to win if we're mirrored and I am on melee to pummel you all game? Likely not even with the current state, now take those options away it'd be a brutally fast loss. Madness is the new noob spec like how Juggernaut used to be before Mercenary, instead of it still being mercenary it's just moved on to madness. I don't think it's a big deal because competitively it can't hold its own, range classes fall off incredibly hard when under proper pressure, and even more so if they're a channeling class like madness. While in full DPS games, it's good sure, but the moment the enemy team has overwhelming damage it's no longer that good and quite awful, it's just the price you pay for playing certain things. 

I can probably never convince you of it, but there are reasons I do not play the spec because it is quite literally that easy to shut down without support when you're going against supports. Anytime I pop off on it is simply because people don't put enough effort into shutting me down, give up, and or completely ignore me / can't get to me. It's never a situation where I just face tank and laugh and carry on as usual, one sin could try to 1v1 me all game long as madness and my overall team pressure nearly evaporates. When I play something like a melee that presence rarely disappears. I know it feels awful as a mercenary to play into madness, but in general, it's also awful to play into Pyro, leth, viru, and generally any spec that has sustained damage. including hatred, which will just kill you through reflect. 


If they say nothing regarding to pvp outside of seasons for the coming patch I doubt we will see much of anything other than maybe one more gear bump and then a new expansion. And that's assuming we'd ever get one more. Then maybe we can actually get some changes. 

 

[RACATW]

38 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

As Fury is one of my main PvP specs, I feel I need to offer my input here. I agree with obfuscate & stun being given back as default. But I don’t believe Fury needs a buff in DPS. Carnage has always been designed to produce higher sustained DPS, Fury should always produce less sustained DPS, but have higher burst. I don’t feel there is anything wrong with Fury’s current burst. 

Um what? Carnage is the burst spec. Fury is the quasi burst dps spec.

 

 

Here, I even just went and looked for the old bioware post about it.

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/842212-how-class-balance-happens/

 

[SentinalMasterWW]

26 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Rage Jugg is my other main melee main. There is nothing wrong with Rage jugg DPS output at all. It’s right where it needs to be. But I do agree that blade blitz could be added back as a default ability. Juggs are one of the least mobile classes without BB. Either that or remove the restricting limit on leap. 

I also agree that skank tanks are a problem & produce too much DPS. But you need to be careful nerfing tanks or they become useless in both PvP & PvE. The solution to Skanks is adjust how much power/mastery can be applied to tanks before it flat lines on scale of diminishing returns. 

Generally I wanted to try and keep it even, that if we are buffing Range specs,  lets buff melee with some mobility, since not surprisingly there are more roots in slows in PVP because of the pruning and barely any abilities to combat this. IMO, ranged isn't top tier because of its DMG (unless its engi), more so because of the amount of roots and slows that they can throw at you. The hardest part of being that melee spec is closing the distance, Giving something to melee to compensate for these ranged buffs would help even out a bit. 

11 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Heatseeker should be the auto critical over rail shot, as for sustain, both carnage and arsenal should see its 3% accuracy from the cylinder/form back if not a bolster of 10% accuracy, in general, would be nice to see, though this would hurt sorcerers and assassins they could easily do anything else but adding in RNG.

I've thought that perhaps adding in the old Apex Predator set back as an implant for gunnery would help a bit, since 90% of Gunnery revolves around Grav round. Perhaps maybe tinkering with the primed ignition tactical can help with its sustained DPS? Making it so it's DOT can be refreshed and ticked? 

13 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Furys damage is turned into more of a parser sustained spec due to its auto-critical removal. Players would click off their stacks during parses to inflate their DPS and parse times. It was not legit and was barely applicable if ever in actual raids and neigh impossible to practically make use of it in PvP. It was strong for sure, but not as strong as it was looking on parsely.io. They seemingly also fixed this issue and should add it back, that'd solve its issues, it's a pure damage class that has 2/3 specs purely reliant on sustain, while one is semi-sustain but can burst better than the other two simply due to a busted tactical and having an implant that gives it an auto critical. Crazy that just having an auto-critical change specs completely, was something I brought up in 6.0 that made and broke meta with the exceptions of pyro & leth then elemental conv.

Fury to me at least, its burst windows can hit hard, but I find that Carnage can just hit those constant burst windows far more often, though which does more DPS with each hit I can't say for sure as I haven't tested it. Running Enrage Crush on Fury can increase its burst almost to the level of Rage, but I need to test it more to say. 

15 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Hatred getting even slightly some DR would go a long way for the spec, overcharge saber being baseline would also in general be nice. The class is weak and only excels in certain areas and those areas most players whine about it being too strong, when in fact the whole situation they're dealing with is unbalanced by default.

Hatred is extremely fun to play, but is confined to being a class Cannon. If we could get leaching strike to do more DMG while the target is affected by one of our DOT's, or even just giving Hatred Spike as an additional CC to control targets, But I think the best choice would be Adding Overcharge saber back as mainline for hatred. Hatred is strong when played well, but mess up and you die REALLY fast. 

17 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Individual performance against people who don't have you as a priority or even care about dealing with you isn't very important. Put it in a scenario of an arena, hypothetically, do you think you're going to win if we're mirrored and I am on melee to pummel you all game? Likely not even with the current state, now take those options away it'd be a brutally fast loss. Madness is the new noob spec like how Juggernaut used to be before Mercenary, instead of it still being mercenary it's just moved on to madness. I don't think it's a big deal because competitively it can't hold its own, range classes fall off incredibly hard when under proper pressure, and even more so if they're a channeling class like madness. While in full DPS games, it's good sure, but the moment the enemy team has overwhelming damage it's no longer that good and quite awful, it's just the price you pay for playing certain things. 

I can probably never convince you of it, but there are reasons I do not play the spec because it is quite literally that easy to shut down without support when you're going against supports. Anytime I pop off on it is simply because people don't put enough effort into shutting me down, give up, and or completely ignore me / can't get to me. It's never a situation where I just face tank and laugh and carry on as usual, one sin could try to 1v1 me all game long as madness and my overall team pressure nearly evaporates. When I play something like a melee that presence rarely disappears. I know it feels awful as a mercenary to play into madness, but in general, it's also awful to play into Pyro, leth, viru, and generally any spec that has sustained damage. including hatred, which will just kill you through reflect. 

I can agree with some of this, AP PT is my favorite Anti-Tryhard spec because of the burst it can do, its one of the specs that I find is a hard counter to a sweaty Sorc or sniper. 

 

[RACATW]

The only thing that needs to be nerfed in this game right now are ranged specs.

Melee specs don't need mobility buffs or anything done to them at all, ranged specs just need their mobility debuffs completely gutted down to one option.

[SentinalMasterWW]

32 minutes ago, RACATW said:

The only thing that needs to be nerfed in this game right now are ranged specs.

Melee specs don't need mobility buffs or anything done to them at all, ranged specs just need their mobility debuffs completely gutted down to one option.

Regarding Melee and in general, The slows and roots are mainly an effect of the Dev's poor prunning done at 7.0s launch. The Dev's basically made roots and slows mainline into a lot of specs. For example, Overload the knockback that sorcs have, used to just knock them back in 6.0, it didn't root, if you wanted roots you had to spec into them. In 7.0 they made it baseline roots. 

Honestly I think across the board, a lot of roots and slows should be removed, or at least make it so they have to spec into them. 

Mainly the Dev's need to realize that we should not have to give up Key defensives for as something as simple as a mobility. 

[meddani]

12 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

12 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Shadow/Assassin feel fine, so I'd leave them where they are at though, I wouldn't mind them removing cleaving cut from the tree and adding something that is actually good. 

you really only play one class don't you? sin/shadows are dogsh!t in pvp right now, one of the worst classes right now due to pruning, every range that's average is gonna tear you apart.

don't even get me started on the set bonuses they get.....

[meddani]

8 hours ago, RACATW said:

The only thing that needs to be nerfed in this game right now are ranged specs.

no, because i like being constantly slowed and rooted as a melee.

i'm convinced devs only like sniper and mercs.

[RACATW]

1 hour ago, meddani said:

no, because i like being constantly slowed and rooted as a melee.

i'm convinced devs only like sniper and mercs.

Yeah, at this point I feel like they do. Although bioware used to understand that it's not fun when you're constantly rooted and slowed as melee:

"We feel both Melee and Sustained damage types are inherently disadvantaged, and that is why Melee Sustained damage dealers (with their two inherent disadvantages) make up the top grouping. Melee damage is disadvantaged because it must stay close to its target (often within four meters) in order to maximize damage output, and Sustained damage is disadvantaged because it takes several seconds to ramp up to its full damage potential each time it acquires a new target (and in situations where rapid target switching is required, it will often never reach its full damage potential)."

 

Hopefully they will fix how brokenly OP ranged specs are by removing the vast majority of those roots + slows and make it more fun for melee again.

[SentinalMasterWW]

9 hours ago, meddani said:

you really only play one class don't you? sin/shadows are dogsh!t in pvp right now, one of the worst classes right now due to pruning, every range that's average is gonna tear you apart.

Sounds like to me you are not playing them properly. Seriously my PvP GM would tear you a new one if you said Sin was a bad spec (For clarification he was one of the top VG's in ranked PVP on SF). He taught me how to Properly play Sin, Gearing, Passive tree, etc. I can tell you right now most guides don't tell you what he suggested, Cease's guide is close except a couple things were changed tree wise, and in turn I found myself a better sin and in general a better PVP'er because of him.

3 Days ago, I played hatred sin on Hypergate 36-0. 

Keep in mind I Q solo, and luckily enough no premade on either team this match. 

And my GM posted a pic in our Discord of him getting a 115K Crit with vaulting slash. 

Point being, I think its a skill issue for people if they say Melee is worse compared to range, range is strong yes, but people need to learn to play smarter. How many melee players use cover when closing the distance to a range spec? 

ONLY Spec I can see players legitimately struggling is snipers, engi sniper especially, but other than that learn how the ranged specs work, Don't hit merc's reflect, and Sorc's are generally straightforward as in they spend most of the match running away. 

9 hours ago, meddani said:

don't even get me started on the set bonuses they get.....

Force Training, 3% DMG buff across the board. 

Dynamic Force Package is good in Warzones, but not really that great for Arena's as you want those short skirmishes. 

Second wind isn't that great honestly, I've actually stopped using it and fought myself doing better. 2nd Wind works wonders on skank tanks though, You basically never die. 

Shadowcraft is KING seriously, 100% Crit chance for 6 Secs? That can demolish players if they are not ready to get hit by it. Combine this with proper openings, and I can get players down to 60 if not 50% HP with a spec like hatred. Even better with Deception, I just delete them entirely. 

Point is Sin is farrrr from bad. 

9 hours ago, meddani said:

no, because i like being constantly slowed and rooted as a melee.

Marauder- Predation, play Carnage and enjoy running literal circles around your opponent. 

Assassin- Force Speed + Phantom Stride. 

Powertech- Charge + grapple. 

Operative - Roll + Holotraverse. 

Juggernaut - Leap, Yes this spec is less mobile, and like i stated should get blade blitz by default. 

Unless you've been netted, I don't see how you are struggling when there are classes with plenty of options for closing the distance. 

10 hours ago, meddani said:

i'm convinced devs only like sniper and mercs.

LOL 

Arsenal sure is OP, given how it relies on tracer missile spam for a vast majority of its rotation. IO is decent, and Bodyguard healer is decent healer spec. 

Marksman one trick pony that is still regarded as one of the lowest specs for both PVE, and PVP. Virulence is the middle ground, and Engi yes is stupid with its control. 

Seriously, play a merc and get rooted by jugs, you ain't surviving that. Mercs are only strong in their defensives, their damage output is ehh. 

The only range spec I struggle with is Ionic Engi, but because its the noob crutch tactical and spec, 90% of them are absolute garbage when they get focused. 

8 hours ago, RACATW said:

Yeah, at this point I feel like they do. Although bioware used to understand that it's not fun when you're constantly rooted and slowed as melee:

"We feel both Melee and Sustained damage types are inherently disadvantaged, and that is why Melee Sustained damage dealers (with their two inherent disadvantages) make up the top grouping. Melee damage is disadvantaged because it must stay close to its target (often within four meters) in order to maximize damage output, and Sustained damage is disadvantaged because it takes several seconds to ramp up to its full damage potential each time it acquires a new target (and in situations where rapid target switching is required, it will often never reach its full damage potential)."

 

Hopefully they will fix how brokenly OP ranged specs are by removing the vast majority of those roots + slows and make it more fun for melee again.

If they do so than they need to remove a lot of melee's roots and slows, because than Melee becomes too strong. 

It becomes hypocritical to say only melee should have a lot of roots and slows, I say in general the game should have less roots and slows or undo the pruning and add abilities back to counteract this spam.

There is an argument of there is a ranged meta, there is a Melee meta, I'm in the middle ground, I think both are viable and it comes down to skill. 

Just the other day, Quesh Huttball a map that is favored towards ranged specs shooting everyone from above, I played Tactics VG, and I kept pulling all these sorcs off their endzone and into the Arena itself and deleting them. Heck I even ran past all of them to score a touchdown right in front of them (After I Nerual triggered CC everyone ofc and activating Hold the line). 

 

[RACATW]

13 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Sounds like to me you are not playing them properly. Seriously my PvP GM would tear you a new one if you said Sin was a bad spec (For clarification he was one of the top VG's in ranked PVP on SF). He taught me how to Properly play Sin, Gearing, Passive tree, etc. I can tell you right now most guides don't tell you what he suggested, Cease's guide is close except a couple things were changed tree wise, and in turn I found myself a better sin and in general a better PVP'er because of him.

3 Days ago, I played hatred sin on Hypergate 36-0. 

Keep in mind I Q solo, and luckily enough no premade on either team this match. 

And my GM posted a pic in our Discord of him getting a 115K Crit with vaulting slash. 

Point being, I think its a skill issue for people if they say Melee is worse compared to range, range is strong yes, but people need to learn to play smarter. How many melee players use cover when closing the distance to a range spec? 

ONLY Spec I can see players legitimately struggling is snipers, engi sniper especially, but other than that learn how the ranged specs work, Don't hit merc's reflect, and Sorc's are generally straightforward as in they spend most of the match running away. 

Force Training, 3% DMG buff across the board. 

Dynamic Force Package is good in Warzones, but not really that great for Arena's as you want those short skirmishes. 

Second wind isn't that great honestly, I've actually stopped using it and fought myself doing better. 2nd Wind works wonders on skank tanks though, You basically never die. 

Shadowcraft is KING seriously, 100% Crit chance for 6 Secs? That can demolish players if they are not ready to get hit by it. Combine this with proper openings, and I can get players down to 60 if not 50% HP with a spec like hatred. Even better with Deception, I just delete them entirely. 

Point is Sin is farrrr from bad. 

Marauder- Predation, play Carnage and enjoy running literal circles around your opponent. 

Assassin- Force Speed + Phantom Stride. 

Powertech- Charge + grapple. 

Operative - Roll + Holotraverse. 

Juggernaut - Leap, Yes this spec is less mobile, and like i stated should get blade blitz by default. 

Unless you've been netted, I don't see how you are struggling when there are classes with plenty of options for closing the distance. 

LOL 

Arsenal sure is OP, given how it relies on tracer missile spam for a vast majority of its rotation. IO is decent, and Bodyguard healer is decent healer spec. 

Marksman one trick pony that is still regarded as one of the lowest specs for both PVE, and PVP. Virulence is the middle ground, and Engi yes is stupid with its control. 

Seriously, play a merc and get rooted by jugs, you ain't surviving that. Mercs are only strong in their defensives, their damage output is ehh. 

The only range spec I struggle with is Ionic Engi, but because its the noob crutch tactical and spec, 90% of them are absolute garbage when they get focused. 

If they do so than they need to remove a lot of melee's roots and slows, because than Melee becomes too strong. 

It becomes hypocritical to say only melee should have a lot of roots and slows, I say in general the game should have less roots and slows or undo the pruning and add abilities back to counteract this spam.

There is an argument of there is a ranged meta, there is a Melee meta, I'm in the middle ground, I think both are viable and it comes down to skill. 

Just the other day, Quesh Huttball a map that is favored towards ranged specs shooting everyone from above, I played Tactics VG, and I kept pulling all these sorcs off their endzone and into the Arena itself and deleting them. Heck I even ran past all of them to score a touchdown right in front of them (After I Nerual triggered CC everyone ofc and activating Hold the line). 

 

The games combat designers clearly say melee is inherently disadvantaged. So, if you put a melee vs a ranged then the melee is inherently disadvantaged.

 

This is especially made clear by the simple fact that too many melee players will cause easy cleave (AoE), for ranged.

 

In general the ranged advantage is fourfold right now

1) Ranged has the inherent single target dps advantage

2) Ranged has good defensives

3) Ranged can easily avoid cleave / AoE dps whereas melee cannot

4) Ranged has escapes + immunities + stuns / hinders + roots + slows

In general, when all of this is combined it completely negates melee dps right now in practically every scenario aside from when you're attacked by a superior melee player. Also, if you're struggling to 1v1 a juggernaut on a merc maybe upload a video so we can give you tips. You shouldn't be losing that or be finding the a 3 second root that you have an in-built complete immunity and cleanse to, difficult to deal with.

[meddani]

15 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Sounds like to me you are not playing them properly. 

 

been playing sin since launch and this coming from you is effin hilariousxD you only play merc and then you say sh!t like this, it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about, your buff/nerf threads over the months has proven that.

save to say no one should listen to you how to play classes, sry.

Edited February 10 by meddani

[meddani]

2 hours ago, RACATW said:

The games combat designers clearly say melee is inherently disadvantaged. So, if you put a melee vs a ranged then the melee is inherently disadvantaged.

 

This is especially made clear by the simple fact that too many melee players will cause easy cleave (AoE), for ranged.

 

In general the ranged advantage is fourfold right now

1) Ranged has the inherent single target dps advantage

2) Ranged has good defensives

3) Ranged can easily avoid cleave / AoE dps whereas melee cannot

4) Ranged has escapes + immunities + stuns / hinders + roots + slows

In general, when all of this is combined it completely negates melee dps right now in practically every scenario aside from when you're attacked by a superior melee player. Also, if you're struggling to 1v1 a juggernaut on a merc maybe upload a video so we can give you tips. You shouldn't be losing that or be finding the a 3 second root that you have an in-built complete immunity and cleanse to, difficult to deal with.

ignore him, he has no idea what he's talking about. average merc player , explains everything.

[meddani]

18 hours ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

 

And my GM posted a pic in our Discord of him getting a 115K Crit with vaulting slash. 

wow what a pro, too bad if you don't kill them in the 6 sec burst window you're a paperweight.

sin is garbage this xpac, no amount of high crits will change that,

Edited February 10 by meddani

[SentinalMasterWW]

2 hours ago, meddani said:

been playing sin since launch and this coming from you is effin hilariousxD you only play merc and then you say sh!t like this, it's pretty clear you have no idea what you're talking about, your buff/nerf threads over the months has proven that.

save to say no one should listen to you how to play classes, sry.

Than why should others take you seriously? 

Sin is great currently, if you think it's bad I honestly don't know what to tell you besides the old git gud. 

2 hours ago, meddani said:

ignore him, he has no idea what he's talking about. average merc player , explains everything.

Surreeee, Merc is op, plz remove net broadsword. 

2 hours ago, meddani said:

wow what a pro, too bad if you don't kill them in the 6 sec burst window you're a paperweight.

sin is garbage this xpac, no amount of high crits will change that,

Two cloaks combined with shadow craft. Abuse and destroy classes with it. 

 

 

 

[SentinalMasterWW]

Like I stated earlier the main cause of the "ranged meta" is the amount of roots and slows baked into the game currently, remove it from BOTH melee and ranged. The issue becomes less. 

Or 

Add high mobility actions back to melee classes 

[sithBracer]

On 2/10/2024 at 12:00 PM, meddani said:

wow what a pro, too bad if you don't kill them in the 6 sec burst window you're a paperweight.

sin is garbage this xpac, no amount of high crits will change that,

I checked the conversation out once just to see if I missed anything after ignoring and apparently you can get 115k crits while using double stealth tactical, lol.

115k crits with blade of elements tactical, which is what happened, isn't really that much. I got in the 130k's and people told me they have gotten to the 150k's if they go all mastery gold augments. While it is fun to see those big numbers at the end of the match, blade of elements just doesn't work for the playstyle and requires you to constantly spam lacerate while out of combat and hope you don't get caught by a stray AoE or a ranged before going into stealth once you are close enough for the opener. The awakened flame works much better if you just want damage and a more reliable opener. The DoT autocrits during the shadowcraft time and adds like an extra 50k-60k to it, you just don't see that big number at the end of the match.

Edited February 12 by sithBracer

[meddani]

1 hour ago, sithBracer said:

While it is fun to see those big numbers at the end of the match, blade of elements just doesn't work for the playstyle and requires you to constantly spam lacerate while out of combat and hope you don't get caught by a stray AoE or a ranged before going into stealth once you are close enough for the opener.

shadowcraft is just a sh!tty setbonus in general, relies too much on stealth (ironic for sin i know lol), death knell set was 10 times better . could've brought the 4 piece and 6 piece set bonus back for sins in 7.0 , they did that for sorcs so i really don't get it.

you can get those crits without blade of elements but you have to sacrifice a recklesness stack for that.

don't even get me started on the opener (maul spike) , you have to sacrifice overload for it and it can get deflected because it's weapon damage....

 

Edited February 10 by meddani

[meddani]

1 hour ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

Surreeee, Merc is op, plz remove net broadsword. 

probably the first thing that sounds reasonable from you. 

i'd rather give it a debuff like the cybertech grenades but removing net would work too

[sithBracer]

41 minutes ago, meddani said:

shadowcraft is just a sh!tty setbonus in general, relies too much on stealth (ironic for sin i know lol), death knell set was 10 times better . could've brought the 4 piece and 6 piece set bonus back for sins in 7.0 , they did that for sorcs so i really don't get it.

you can get those crits without blade of elements but you have to sacrifice a recklesness stack for that.

don't even get me started on the opener (maul spike) , you have to sacrifice overload for it and it can get deflected because it's weapon damage....

 

We tested it out, in the best circumstance we never broke 100k without blade. I'm sure in the most ideal circumstance it might be possible to barely break 100k, but it's probably not going to happen. This is in PvP of course where stats are capped to 336 and we don't get guild/ship bonuses.

I stopped using the maul opener since it was just too unreliable and I would always have to worry about sorc stun bubbles screwing me up. Opening with awakened flame ball lightning really gives me more success in damage and pressure. The DoT autocrits during the duration adding a lot. The distance of ball lightning puts me at ease when attacking sorcs with stun bubble, attacking with a non stun move from 10m doesn't attract attention to me, and I get to keep overload. In warzones, it's ok.

Death knell would've been ok, when we had a decent energized blade talent. But after they secretly nerfed it (and didn't even tell us why), I don't think death knell would be that good. One maul autocrit isn't doing anything. And an extra 30% on subpar melee damage isn't going to fix anything either.

The class is just bad because it's playstyle doesn't fit this meta. It's really only good for quick skirmishes like 4dps arenas, but pretty terrible everywhere else.