So what's next? Yet another KOTFE/ET cringe fest?

[TziganeNZ]

38 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

They do need better writers, but they won't hire them because they don't have the money (why else has every update been so small?).

The only thing I can say is this: Either learn to accept that it's not going to be exactly what you want/think is best, or drop the game and find another one to play for a while.

I've been playing BG3 for the past week or so - OMG the writing and story is next-level FANTASTIC!!

And nearly the entire game is fully-voiced (other than the Player Character) - it's amazing!  Not to mention the graphics (although not a big fan of blood etc, must admit....).

[Setta]

20 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

I like your more optimistic look at it all.

Thanks I appreciate the support / agreements

Quote

I will say that, yes, the story has always been fairly linear. Theron and Lana are the real brains behind the operation. Before them, no matter what Origin the PC is, you always just took orders. You're not a mind-bending strategist, you're a deadly weapon. That's honestly been a flaw since day one; but given the game's WoW-clone status, it's rather unavoidable.

I think due to the cost of the game and EA's greed this was always the outcome. They wanted their money back and then some ASAP. Which with more separate stories that would have taken longer to accomplish, and they weren't about to let that happen.  Which is quite unfortunate as this game could have been amazing, but instead we got stuck with a skeleton crew and storylines that shoehorns everyone down the same path, and dialogue. 

It saddens me, because while the objective could have been the same throughout the mission, a few extra / different recordings of the voice lines in who comes up with what plan would have solved a lot of issues in the Eternal Throne Saga, in my opinion.  Where the force users could have had guidance from Lana & Theron that they have now, the none force users could have been the ones suggesting some of those idea instead, and give the illusion of resourcefulness, cunning etc. Not every time mind you, but more than they do now, and when it fits the class fantasy for them to suggest these things.  I really do think it would have gone a long way.

Again this wouldn't have actually changed anything, but it gives that illusion of being different. Similar to our illusion of choice we have now.  We know in the end, the dialogue options are more or less meaningless you're going to do the same mission regardless of light side / dark side choices, but it's the thought that counts. Even if you kill someone, let them go, or save them, a different npc replaces them (well usually, some exceptions apply)  Same here.  I think NFU would have been better served by these different dialogue options.

I suppose while I do blame EA / Bioware I also blame the players too.  Back in beta you could off your companions. The most well known one was Quinn, but there were others, quite a few from the looks of things actually. Yet because the player whined that that their choices had consequences the developers decided at the time that this is an mmo instead of a single player game, and in an mmo, it's best to just streamline the whole thing. I know this kinda changes by Fallen Empire with them allowing the deaths of companions, but by that point does it really matter?

I suppose while I can't prove that the developers would have recorded a few more voice lines to make this a slightly better experience story wise, I know ahead of time that someone would have been like why is my Jedi not as smart as (insert NFU class here), I'm super leet, ruxxor Jedi, slayer of the Sith empeoror bla bla bla... this is bull ****, I'm way smarter than a Scoundrel bla bla bla.  So why bother? I can't even really fault Bioware (well I can) for their choice to just streamline everything the way they did, when there are so many people who ruin it for the rest of us.

/End Rant.

Edited January 2 by Setta

[Gamer_Auto]

32 minutes ago, Setta said:

I think due to the cost of the game and EA's greed this was always the outcome. They wanted their money back and then some ASAP. Which with more separate stories that would have taken longer to accomplish, and they weren't about to let that happen.  Which is quite unfortunate as this game could have been amazing, but instead we got stuck with a skeleton crew and storylines that shoehorns everyone down the same path, and dialogue. 

I do agree that the devs likely were forced into a few choices by money-grubbing suits at EA, and have to stand by those choices now because it's too late to change them without a massive overhaul that would take more time and money than anyone really wants.

34 minutes ago, Setta said:

It saddens me, because while the objective could have been the same throughout the mission, a few extra / different recordings of the voice lines in who comes up with what plan would have solved a lot of issues in the Eternal Throne Saga, in my opinion.  Where the force users could have had guidance from Lana & Theron that they have now, the none force users could have been the ones suggesting some of those idea instead, and give the illusion of resourcefulness, cunning etc. Not every time mind you, but more than they do now, and when it fits the class fantasy for them to suggest these things.  I really do think it would have gone a long way.

Not even just the Tech Users, I think even the Force Users should have had some competence to their dialogue. There are only a handful of choices I can recall off the top of my head that The Commander actually gets to feel like a leader. Kaliyo and Jorgan infiltrating Zakuul, a handful of semi-forced choices in the interim quests after Echoes of Oblivion, and that's about it.
A great touch would have been dialogue options to use relevant experience from an Origin's 1.0 quest if applicable; even if it was just an illusion of choice.

39 minutes ago, Setta said:

Again this wouldn't have actually changed anything, but it gives that illusion of being different. Similar to our illusion of choice we have now.  We know in the end, the dialogue options are more or less meaningless you're going to do the same mission regardless of light side / dark side choices, but it's the thought that counts. Even if you kill someone, let them go, or save them, a different npc replaces them (well usually, some exceptions apply)  Same here.  I think NFU would have been better served by these different dialogue options.

That's true. And, again, I feel like that's part of the limitations of the MMO medium over a fully Single Player experience. It's necessary to trick a player-side client into seeing the same NPC with a different skin and voice, just so your choices don't disrupt other people's experiences.

42 minutes ago, Setta said:

I suppose while I do blame EA / Bioware I also blame the players too.  Back in beta you could off your companions. The most well known one was Quinn, but there were others, quite a few from the looks of things actually. Yet because the player whined that that their choices had consequences the developers decided at the time that this is an mmo instead of a single player game, and in an mmo, it's best to just streamline the whole thing. I know this kinda changes by Fallen Empire with them allowing the deaths of companions, but by that point does it really matter?

I very vaguely recall killing Quinn once upon a time, because that's what makes sense for a Sith Warrior. Quinn betrayed you, and that betrayal is even worse if you romance him like I did with mine. It makes perfect sense that a Sith would kill him for his actions.
But now, with how Companions have literally become another Collection item, it makes 0 sense for any of them to die (Torian or Vette; the one time where I adamantly disagree with a narrative decision).

46 minutes ago, Setta said:

I suppose while I can't prove that the developers would have recorded a few more voice lines to make this a slightly better experience story wise, I know ahead of time that someone would have been like why is my Jedi not as smart as (insert NFU class here), I'm super leet, ruxxor Jedi, slayer of the Sith empeoror bla bla bla... this is bull ****, I'm way smarter than a Scoundrel bla bla bla.  So why bother? I can't even really fault Bioware (well I can) for their choice to just streamline everything the way they did, when there are so many people who ruin it for the rest of us.

Right?
At the end of the day, while I don't like that the game feels less impactful than a game that came out in 2003 (KotOR), I recognize that without major investment of time, money, and manpower that Disney/EA/Broadsword likely don't want to invest into a 12 year old game, I can at least accept that many factors far outside my control have led the game down this path.

[Setta]

46 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

Not even just the Tech Users, I think even the Force Users should have had some competence to their dialogue.

I did think about that as I was writing it, and I do agree. Though I decided that since the chapters fit the force users better atm anyways, and I was more just focusing on the point of diversity in dialogue I didn't get into it, but yes, something like the consular getting a more diplomatic line or two, or the inquisitor being a bit more manipulative, or w/e would have been great too.

Quote

That's true. And, again, I feel like that's part of the limitations of the MMO medium over a fully Single Player experience. It's necessary to trick a player-side client into seeing the same NPC with a different skin and voice, just so your choices don't disrupt other people's experiences.

I agree.  I think technically it would be possible to get a lot closer to the single player experience, but it would be a lot more costly with a lot more development and people needed which just wasn't in the cards.

Quote

I very vaguely recall killing Quinn once upon a time, because that's what makes sense for a Sith Warrior. Quinn betrayed you, and that betrayal is even worse if you romance him like I did with mine. It makes perfect sense that a Sith would kill him for his actions.
But now, with how Companions have literally become another Collection item, it makes 0 sense for any of them to die (Torian or Vette; the one time where I adamantly disagree with a narrative decision).

Yes SW killing Quinn was obvious, but there were others like Skedge I believe, Gault instead of swapping bodies with his double.  I heard rumors that the Trooper could pick some dark side options that gets his companions killed as well (mission gone bad or w/e).  Sadly we'll never see those play out.

Quote

Right?
At the end of the day, while I don't like that the game feels less impactful than a game that came out in 2003 (KotOR), I recognize that without major investment of time, money, and manpower that Disney/EA/Broadsword likely don't want to invest into a 12 year old game, I can at least accept that many factors far outside my control have led the game down this path.

See I agree with this, but then there are things that make me go wait what?  For instance pretty much all of 7.0.  Like why upgrade to 64 bit?  Gear changes aside, why change the UI, the Map, the outfitter, why add combat styles? Why overhaul the GTN, remove competitive pvp, to change it to a new seasonal grind fest.  It's like for a skeleton crew who could just ignore a lot of these things and focus on pushing a story, but it's like they're actually trying. They've invested a lot of development time into side projects to I guess "modernize" the game.  It's just weird to me.  Because on the one hand everyone is like they have no money, they have very few people working on this, and then on the other they've been pumping out changes that no one even thought to ask for. It may not be the changes we've asked for, or even wanted for that matter but they're there.

Like the ability pruning that no one wanted, rumor had it back around 7.0 launch this was because they wanted to make SWtoR for console, and needed to remove abilities.  Idk if that was true or not, maybe and maybe the deal just fell through, or who knows.  But there are things they do where I'm like is the game just on life support or are they actually investing in it, just not at the pace that we would like, or where we would like them too focus on.  So idk i'm confused about the state of the game if I'm being honest.

[Gamer_Auto]

37 minutes ago, Setta said:

See I agree with this, but then there are things that make me go wait what?  For instance pretty much all of 7.0.  Like why upgrade to 64 bit?  Gear changes aside, why change the UI, the Map, the outfitter, why add combat styles? Why overhaul the GTN, remove competitive pvp, to change it to a new seasonal grind fest.  It's like for a skeleton crew who could just ignore a lot of these things and focus on pushing a story, but it's like they're actually trying. They've invested a lot of development time into side projects to I guess "modernize" the game.  It's just weird to me.  Because on the one hand everyone is like they have no money, they have very few people working on this, and then on the other they've been pumping out changes that no one even thought to ask for. It may not be the changes we've asked for, or even wanted for that matter but they're there.

Like the ability pruning that no one wanted, rumor had it back around 7.0 launch this was because they wanted to make SWtoR for console, and needed to remove abilities.  Idk if that was true or not, maybe and maybe the deal just fell through, or who knows.  But there are things they do where I'm like is the game just on life support or are they actually investing in it, just not at the pace that we would like, or where we would like them too focus on.  So idk i'm confused about the state of the game if I'm being honest.

That's something I'm confused on as well, tbh. It feels like the actual developers still care about the game and want to make it better for us (I think there are still people on the current dev team that have been there since the start), but the corporate suits don't want to give them the funding needed for everything they want to do (the game is twelve years old and has no relevancy in current gaming discussion outside of it's curious longevity, so I honestly wouldn't see it as a worthwhile investment either); so they have to make small changes here and there. Because, at least from my point of view, it really does feel like they (the actual dev team) don't have the money and manpower needed to deliver more than what we're currently getting.

But who knows? Like I say when talking about the 7.0 story: we're still in the middle of things, and don't have the complete picture yet. If the game can survive until 8.0, we may be able to see a larger picture than we can in the current moment. Hindsight is always clearer.

[Setta]

25 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

(the game is twelve years old and has no relevancy in current gaming discussion outside of it's curious longevity, so I honestly wouldn't see it as a worthwhile investment either)

Being 12 years old isn't really bad though. WoW is 20 years old atm, with 3 more expansion already pre-planned and on the way.  At the current rate of roughly 2 years per expansion that will be going till at least 2030.  In fact it has classic servers which are literally a 20 year old game. Not a 20 y/o updated game, just a 20 year old game as it was. It was so popular that they released a WoW hardcore and WoW season of discovery recently (like a month back) which are all based off the 20 year old original concept. FF14 is also 13 y/o and going strong, and a lot of the current MMOs are actually more or less in the same boat, (GW2, BDO, ESO, etc) being like a decade old or more. Now I know this game ain't WoW, (or other mmos) never was never will be, but I happen to think it has the potential to be better, if EA / Biosword actually gave the game what it needs. 

I wrote a very long reply comparing SW to other games, what it does better what it does worse, and how it could easily be better than those games, (and in some ways it already is), but honestly I'm just derailing the topic more, so instead I'll leave it at this. Developers need to listen to the player base. If they had listened to us, instead of pushing through on their ideas of what they think the game needs, it would have been doing considerably better than it is now.  It still could, it's not to late, but they do have to listen.  They've shown they're still willing to work on the game and make changes. We just need those changes to be something that the game needs, and not an ability prune, a GTN overhaul, the scrapping of a pvp system, scrapping of DvL bosses & content, or a completely new UI just to say they did.  We need actual changes to deal with problems we've complained about for years, changes that will get players excited to come back and play the game they once loved, instead of making changes for the sake of changes.

[Lenlo]

Whatever the next big ticket expansion is, I think that in order for SWTOR to have a little life breathed into it that we need to have a new raid/operation complete with story modes released as bookends for each chapter. We've gone far too long without major core content aside from story being released.

 

[Gamer_Auto]

4 hours ago, Lenlo said:

Whatever the next big ticket expansion is, I think that in order for SWTOR to have a little life breathed into it that we need to have a new raid/operation complete with story modes released as bookends for each chapter. We've gone far too long without major core content aside from story being released.

I don't play Ops (guildless scrub), so educate me if I'm wrong; but aren't all Ops non-cinematic? As in, do even the Oricon Ops have cutscenes to experience? Because, at least with Flashpoints, they're starting to go the way of Hammer Station again (Shrine of Silence has little-to-no story to it. It's just a glorified Heroic).

[Lenlo]

On 1/2/2024 at 4:12 PM, Gamer_Auto said:

I don't play Ops (guildless scrub), so educate me if I'm wrong; but aren't all Ops non-cinematic? As in, do even the Oricon Ops have cutscenes to experience? Because, at least with Flashpoints, they're starting to go the way of Hammer Station again (Shrine of Silence has little-to-no story to it. It's just a glorified Heroic).

Temple of Sacrifice had a story mode and was central to Shadow of Revan and the lead up to KOTFE.

[Gamer_Auto]

8 hours ago, Lenlo said:

Temple of Sacrifice had a story mode and was central to Shadow of Revan and the lead up to KOTFE.

Temple of Sacrifice also had an alternative workaround added in for people like me, who have no guild to pester about playing whatever raid on a whim. So I really truly have never seen the inside of an Operation. I still have the Gods from the Machine starter quest on all three of my characters that have made it past Iokath, and I've completely ignored the Dread Master arc for the same reason.

Edited January 10 by Gamer_Auto

[JadisUK]

16 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

Temple of Sacrifice also had an alternative workaround added in for people like me, who have no guild to pester about playing whatever raid on a whim. So I really truly have never seen the inside of an Operation. I still have the Gods from the Machine starter quest on all three of my characters that have made it past Iokath, and I've completely ignored the Dread Master arc for the same reason.

Both those OPs are optional to do.

[Gamer_Auto]

8 hours ago, JadisUK said:

Both those OPs are optional to do.

Yeah, so is Temple of Sacrifice. You're not helping.

[Lenlo]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:29 PM, Gamer_Auto said:

Temple of Sacrifice also had an alternative workaround added in for people like me, who have no guild to pester about playing whatever raid on a whim. So I really truly have never seen the inside of an Operation. I still have the Gods from the Machine starter quest on all three of my characters that have made it past Iokath, and I've completely ignored the Dread Master arc for the same reason.

Players like you are an itty bitty minority in the MMORPG genre. Releasing new story centric OPs and adding story modes to them like with Temple of Sacrifice would be a very reasonable middle road approach.

[Whykara]

9 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

Players like you are an itty bitty minority in the MMORPG genre.

But not in this MMORPG. There are lots of people who never or rarely ever run OPs.

[Gamer_Auto]

3 hours ago, Whykara said:

But not in this MMORPG. There are lots of people who never or rarely ever run OPs.

@Lenlo He's got a point. SWTOR was, is, and always will be primarily geared towards Single Player activities. It's why only 12 out of 36 Flashpoints aren't trivially Solo Swept. The first time they tried to make a storyline heavily intertwined with Ops was Dread Masters in 1.5 & 2.X, and the last time they heavily tied an Op to a storyline was Shadow of Revan in 3.X; and they haven't done it again. Likely because nobody played because the majority of SWTOR players are Solo Players.

Supposedly Nature of Progress and R-4 Anomaly are part of a new Czerka arc, but I wouldn't know because I don't play Ops because I can't solo them to get the full experience on my own without dragging down 7 other people. And that's my main issue with Ops and why, if they EVER connected Ops to the Main Story like you want, they'd have to put in the effort to make 2 completely different versions - one for Solos (so they don't lose 80 - 90% of their Sub revenue), one for Guildies. And with the current size of the team, they're not gonna do that.

I PROMISE you, nobody wants to be required to play an Operation in order to continue the main story. That's anti-player behavior.

[TrixxieTriss]

The only thing I’ll say on NFU in Star Wars is that anyone can use the Force if they open themselves to it. G. Lucas explained this himself 42 years ago. 

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-george-lucas-force-rule-paid-off/#:~:text=Anyone Can Use The Force,leg up on their journeys.

But more recently we saw this demonstrated in Ashoka with Sabine. 
So the concept that your Operative, Trooper or Mando can’t tap into the force & therefore force oriented story in swtor is flawed. 

RPG is in your head. If you feel your character can’t use the force or be attuned to it, then sure, the Force user story lines don’t make sense and are boring. But if you use your own head canon that your Mando etc can touch the Force (but not weird it, yet 😉), then those stories are more enjoyable on traditional non Force using classes. 

I do think that BioWare missed out on a big opportunity to give non Force users the opportunity to learn some real basic Force abilities during the KOTET period. It could have been a story choice the same as killing or keeping companions. 

Edited January 12 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

53 minutes ago, Gamer_Auto said:

SWTOR was, is, and always will be primarily geared towards Single Player activities

 

New to SWTOR? 

Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ is the only massively-multiplayer online game with a Free-to-Play option that puts you at the center of your own story-driven Star Wars™ saga. you create your own hero based on the classic Star Wars roles, including Jedi Knights, Sith Lords, Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, and more.

SWTOR offers both solo and grouped content, main storyline, class and planetary specific missions, Guilds, Strongholds that can be decorated, a Players vs. Player (PvP) mode, and six expansions of content that extends beyond your class storyline.

Thats a direct quote from the website by the developers of the game. 

[Gamer_Auto]

26 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

New to SWTOR? 

Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ is the only massively-multiplayer online game with a Free-to-Play option that puts you at the center of your own story-driven Star Wars™ saga. you create your own hero based on the classic Star Wars roles, including Jedi Knights, Sith Lords, Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, and more.

SWTOR offers both solo and grouped content, main storyline, class and planetary specific missions, Guilds, Strongholds that can be decorated, a Players vs. Player (PvP) mode, and six expansions of content that extends beyond your class storyline.

Thats a direct quote from the website by the developers of the game. 

YOUR OWN STORY-DRIVEN STAR WARS SAGA. Just because there is the option to group and Guild, that doesn't mean it's the main focus.

You can group for Origin Story & Eternal Empire Story missions, but nobody else will show up in the cutscenes.
You can group for Planetary Story missions, but it's more efficient to do it yourself as you do your Origin Story.
You can group for Post-Corellia Story, Post-Zakuul Story, & Heroic missions, but the recent addition of the system that allows you to hop into someone else's fight un-grouped and still gain rewards if they're part of your faction nullifies the need for that.
You can group for Flashpoints, but most people don't unless they're using Group Finder to grind Hammer Station.
You can group for Alliance Alerts, Star Fortresses, Eternal Arena, & Uprisings, but most people don't unless they're playing with friends.

You need to group for Operations & Instance Bosses, but only Guilds and close friend groups do them.
You need to group for PvP (Warzones, Arena, GSF), but you can do that Solo via the Activity Finder.

You cannot group for Space Missions/Heroic Space Missions, because the entire system is on-rails shooting and most players have completely forgotten about it by now.

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU QUOTE THE DEVELOPERS AT ME, THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT THERE IS LITTLE TO ZERO REQUIREMENT TO DO ANYTHING WITH ANYONE. GROUPING AND GUILDING IS IRRELEVANT OUTSIDE OF ONE MISSION TYPE, AND YOU CAN STILL DO THAT ALONE BY USING THE GROUP FINDER. STOP BEING A GUILD ELITIST AND ACCEPT THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE PREFER TO PLAY ONLINE GAMES BY THEMSELVES.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Gamer_Auto said:

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU QUOTE THE DEVELOPERS AT ME, THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT THERE IS LITTLE TO ZERO REQUIREMENT TO DO ANYTHING WITH ANYONE. GROUPING AND GUILDING IS IRRELEVANT OUTSIDE OF ONE MISSION TYPE, AND YOU CAN STILL DO THAT ALONE BY USING THE GROUP FINDER. STOP BEING A GUILD ELITIST AND ACCEPT THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE PREFER TO PLAY ONLINE GAMES BY THEMSELVES.

Which is no different than any other MMO I’ve played. You can play as much or as little with other players. Also I’m not a guild elitist. Im just showing you that you’re assumptions that the game is mostly for solo story players is false. The game is for anyone who like MMO’s. And that usually means you can play it solo or in group content. 

Edited January 12 by TrixxieTriss

[BulbulusTheGreat]

On 1/10/2024 at 8:27 PM, JadisUK said:

Both those OPs are optional to do.

to be fair though you can finish Revan questline without doing the ops but you cannot finish dread masters story arc without doing the ops and i think thats problem for people, when i was new to the game dread master thing used to present me a problem too but then i just got a guild or you don't even need a guild, there are runs organized on fleet all the time but some people just want solo story without group content and while i understand that i do think that we need more ops and its reasonable for some of them to be story locked.

Edited January 13 by BulbulusTheGreat

[JadisUK]

22 hours ago, BulbulusTheGreat said:

to be fair though you can finish Revan questline without doing the ops but you cannot finish dread masters story arc without doing the ops and i think thats problem for people, when i was new to the game dread master thing used to present me a problem too but then i just got a guild or you don't even need a guild, there are runs organized on fleet all the time but some people just want solo story without group content and while i understand that i do think that we need more ops and its reasonable for some of them to be story locked.

That was my point, you don't have to do it.  I did them with guild members and pugs but was not bothered if I didn't do OPs.

[Thepyrethatburns]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:59 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

The only thing I’ll say on NFU in Star Wars is that anyone can use the Force if they open themselves to it. G. Lucas explained this himself 42 years ago. 

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-george-lucas-force-rule-paid-off/#:~:text=Anyone Can Use The Force,leg up on their journeys.

He also said that before the fans hounded him into providing a more rational explanation for the Force and Midichlorians became canon......

 

On 1/11/2024 at 6:59 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

But more recently we saw this demonstrated in Ashoka with Sabine. 

and he also said it before Disney made it commonplace for characters to get stabbed in the chest with a lightsaber and then just walk it off.

(I do find it amusing that this comes up in a topic about talking about KOTFE/ET being a cringefest when Ahsoka looked at the KOTFE/ET's storytelling/plot and said "Hold my beer".)

 

On 1/11/2024 at 6:59 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

So the concept that your Operative, Trooper or Mando can’t tap into the force & therefore force oriented story in swtor is flawed. 

I do think that BioWare missed out on a big opportunity to give non Force users the opportunity to learn some real basic Force abilities during the KOTET period. It could have been a story choice the same as killing or keeping companions. 

The most logically consistent idea that I've heard is that they do use the Force  It's just that, due to both low Midichlorian count* and lack of training, they use it more instinctively.  When Han Solo says "I have a bad feeling about this", he is instinctively using what little force ability exists in him as premonitions.

In the case of your NFU characters, that is why they are the best.  They are instinctively using the little grasp of the Force that they have to be the best Operative, Trooper, or Mando they can.  They are using it instinctively to survive situations against enemies that should reasonably steamroll them or, in the case of the Operative, to subconsciously influence people to not shoot them in the head when they're tied to a chair.  Sure, it's not the same as waving your hands and throwing star destroyers around but that's a matter of focus and midichlorian count.

-----------------

*Yes, I realize that I make that sound like a male fertility issue.  Honestly, I don't care if only because I like the notion of characters having quests centered around taking "Force Potency" pills from a gas station and then dealing with the consequences.

"OH GOD, MY SABER WON'T IGNITE ANYMORE!!!  EVEN WHEN IT DOES, IT BURNS LIKE MUSTAFAR!!!  WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?"

[BulbulusTheGreat]

15 hours ago, JadisUK said:

That was my point, you don't have to do it.  I did them with guild members and pugs but was not bothered if I didn't do OPs.

i think biggest problem occurs when person is big on story and wants to finish it all but not big on doing ops with others, so this means they can't finish the story unless they do the ops, its not a problem to most of us but seems to be for some.

[TrixxieTriss]

18 hours ago, Thepyrethatburns said:

also said that before the fans hounded him into providing a more rational explanation for the Force and Midichlorians became canon......

 

On 1/12/2024 at 12:59 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

But more recently we saw this demonstrated in Ashoka with Sabine. 

and he also said it before Disney made it commonplace for characters to get stabbed in the chest with a lightsaber and then just walk it off.

(I do find it amusing that this comes up in a topic about talking about KOTFE/ET being a cringefest when Ahsoka looked at the KOTFE/ET's storytelling/plot and said "Hold my beer".)

I’ll just leave this with you. It’s from the Kylo Ren comic book

[Thepyrethatburns]

"For anyone who CAN sense it"

That feels like a tacit admission that there are people who CAN'T sense it.

But agree to disagree.