Coming 7.4 GTN changes on the PTS

[Darcmoon]

25 minutes ago, psikofunkster said:

Shae Vizla will be a new server with no transfers available at launch. This will allow us to monitor the health of the server’s economy and simultaneously provide a space for players who want to start on a clean slate or who have never played before. In essence, opening a new server this way will feel like a new launch.

😉

That is not wiping out credits.   That is opening a new server and restricting transfers for an indeterminate amount of time.   Two very, very different things.  

[ElZaguero]

On 11/16/2023 at 3:01 PM, Darcmoon said:

That is not wiping out credits.   That is opening a new server and restricting transfers for an indeterminate amount of time.   Two very, very different things.  

I would be delighted to play on new Shae Vizla server if my latency from here in Buenos Aires wasn't 400ms+

On the NA servers I get 150-175 with occasional spikes to 300+

Edited November 18, 2023 by ElZaguero

[Thepyrethatburns]

Two things:

1) I've been undercutting (Usually by 100 per) on Purple/Gold mats as well as Cartel Market items for a little over a decade.  This is to say nothing of what others have called me practically giving blues/greens away as well as the infrequent Purple charity drops.  Even with my pet/mount collecting habit, I'm still worth something over 3 billion over 8 toons. 

Undercutting doesn't bring prices down as much as one thinks unless there is a large game population doing it.

2) That said, these changes all seems to be a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.  I know this is a reaction to years of people whimpering about GTN prices but it doesn't feel like the current method of GTN actually needs changing.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

10 hours ago, Thepyrethatburns said:

Undercutting doesn't bring prices down as much as one thinks unless there is a large game population doing it.

 

New changes will mean even less price drops due to undercutting, since the system will actually REWARD you for doing just 1 credit undercuts. If buyers can't skip up the line to whoever posted the first item (and started the 1 credit under games) then the original item poster will lose out on sales (and the new posting fee). 

 

Being able to post for up to 7 days will be useless for anything but the rarest of the rare items, since that initial seller will never be the lowest on the board due to undercutting.
 

GTN players, who constantly monitor the GTN so they can keep being the lowest on the board, will control the market, and they do  NOT do charity, prices will rise as long as people keep buying. 

RIP casual GTN sellers who actually ... play the game and not the GTN.

Edited November 19, 2023 by LD_Little_Dragon

[Darkestmonty]

33 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

New changes will mean even less price drops due to undercutting, since the system will actually REWARD you for doing just 1 credit undercuts. If buyers can't skip up the line to whoever posted the first item (and started the 1 credit under games) then the original item poster will lose out on sales (and the new posting fee). 

 

Being able to post for up to 7 days will be useless for anything but the rarest of the rare items, since that initial seller will never be the lowest on the board due to undercutting.
 

GTN players, who constantly monitor the GTN so they can keep being the lowest on the board, will control the market, and they do  NOT do charity, prices will rise as long as people keep buying. 

RIP casual GTN sellers who actually ... play the game and not the GTN.

what you describe happens now. Only instead of 1 credit it is 100 credits (mainly because of the Low to High bug with 1 credit). Most players scale the search from Lowest Price to Highest Price when buying.

Currently posting and canceling fees are so insignificant they aren't even a consideration. 2-30 credits per resource item, 100 credits for a CM item.

At least in 7.4 the posting fees will be more impactful.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

4 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

what you describe happens now. Only instead of 1 credit it is 100 credits (mainly because of the Low to High bug with 1 credit). Most players scale the search from Lowest Price to Highest Price when buying.

The difference is that now you can scroll through however many pages of the 'tiny insignificant undercutters' it takes to get to the first seller who started the new price point.  You won't be able to do that with the new GTN.

Those tiny undercutters are annoying.  If you think something is at a good price point, then just match it.  When I post I'll either match the current price, put it up for what I know will sell (for when those 1 million dollar items suddenly 'pop up' to 1 billion), or undercut  by a reasonable amount, 5% or so. I'll go through multiple pages to find the first seller that isn't doing those insulting undercuts.

The dev's, however, have decided that those tiny insignificant undercutters are doing the right thing, and the changes will reward them.

I won't reward them, I'll just stop using the GTN.

[Darkestmonty]

2 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

The difference is that now you can scroll through however many pages of the 'tiny insignificant undercutters' it takes to get to the first seller who started the new price point.  You won't be able to do that with the new GTN.

Those tiny undercutters are annoying.  If you think something is at a good price point, then just match it.  When I post I'll either match the current price, put it up for what I know will sell (for when those 1 million dollar items suddenly 'pop up' to 1 billion), or undercut  by a reasonable amount, 5% or so. I'll go through multiple pages to find the first seller that isn't doing those insulting undercuts.

The dev's, however, have decided that those tiny insignificant undercutters are doing the right thing, and the changes will reward them.

I won't reward them, I'll just stop using the GTN.

I don't know about you all but when I'm buying an item I always try to buy the lowest priced. I don't care if that person has canceled and undercut multiple times. I don't care if that person is someone I don't like for personal reasons.

I don't see the change in 7.4 of lowest posted = first sold as something bad.

[DeannaVoyager]

Just what the world needs: people who don't see why removing choice is a bad thing.

 

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Just what the world needs: people who don't see why removing choice is a bad thing.

 

Animosity against certain sellers is probably a reason why names are no longer being displayed.

Players hold grudges because a seller is too expensive, they repost items, or undercut. People are already starting drama about undercutting by 1 credit to be the first sold and that system isn't even live yet.

Others think they can identify credit sellers on the gtn purely by name or how they are selling items and those same players believe they can identify credit sellers better than the devs using metrics no player has access to.

I will miss names because I liked seeing fellow traders on the GTN or contacting a sellers to work out deals, but considering the types of players I have encountered, I'm fine with names no longer being displayed.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Thepyrethatburns]

20 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

The difference is that now you can scroll through however many pages of the 'tiny insignificant undercutters' it takes to get to the first seller who started the new price point.  You won't be able to do that with the new GTN.

Those tiny undercutters are annoying.  If you think something is at a good price point, then just match it.  When I post I'll either match the current price, put it up for what I know will sell (for when those 1 million dollar items suddenly 'pop up' to 1 billion), or undercut  by a reasonable amount, 5% or so. I'll go through multiple pages to find the first seller that isn't doing those insulting undercuts.

The dev's, however, have decided that those tiny insignificant undercutters are doing the right thing, and the changes will reward them.

I won't reward them, I'll just stop using the GTN.

I feel like you're the only person who does that.  I have been doing this for over a decade and the closest that I personally come to that is, if someone is selling a purple for 100 credits and the next lowest is 5000 credits, I will just buy the low mat and flip it for 4900 credits.

Also, in a former guild, someone got into a flame war with the guildie because she kept undercutting him.

Honest curiosity: Is this something that a lot of people actually do?  I'm honestly asking out of curiosity because this is literally the first time that I've heard of this practice of skipping all the undercutters just to find an original price point.
 

10 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Animosity against certain sellers is probably a reason why names are no longer being displayed.

Players hold grudges because a seller is too expensive, they repost items, or undercut. People are already starting drama about undercutting by 1 credit to be the first sold and that system isn't even live yet.

Others think they can identify credit sellers on the gtn purely by name or how they are selling items and those same players believe they can identify credit sellers better than the devs using metrics no player has access to.

I will miss names because I liked seeing fellow traders on the GTN or contacting a sellers to work out deals, but considering the types of players I have encountered, I'm fine with names no longer being displayed.

There's that but I can tell you from personal experience that people will stake out sellers who are selling blue/green mats for cheap.  I see it often where, as I'm doing my mat dump, I'll get one sale and then the person will suddenly start buying up all my cheap mats.  This is across multiple categories so I know it's not just a case of "Oh, I'm just looking for gems and I came across it"

As such, I suspect that another reason is that so people can't stake out sellers doing charity drops and scoop up all the cheap mats which gives more people a chance to grab the mats at bargain prices.

[Spikanor]

why do we not wait and see how its going to happing when there release it.

maybe most of the doom senario's that people have talk about more is maybe never going to happing.

[DeannaVoyager]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:16 AM, Darkestmonty said:

Animosity against certain sellers is probably a reason why names are no longer being displayed.

 

They said it's left out because there is not enough space for all the information. But cool story bro.

 

On 11/20/2023 at 10:16 AM, Darkestmonty said:

Players hold grudges because a seller is too expensive, they repost items, or undercut. People are already starting drama about undercutting by 1 credit to be the first sold and that system isn't even live yet.

Others think they can identify credit sellers on the gtn purely by name or how they are selling items and those same players believe they can identify credit sellers better than the devs using metrics no player has access to.

I will miss names because I liked seeing fellow traders on the GTN or contacting a sellers to work out deals, but considering the types of players I have encountered, I'm fine with names no longer being displayed.

 

Seeing how you speak of your fellow gtn sellers, while accusing them of animosity is ironic. 

 

15 hours ago, Thepyrethatburns said:

Honest curiosity: Is this something that a lot of people actually do?  I'm honestly asking out of curiosity because this is literally the first time that I've heard of this practice of skipping all the undercutters just to find an original price point.

I do it all the time too. I don't want to support those 1 credit undercutters who have nothing else to do in game except undercut everything with 1 credit. If they undercut properly, that's fine by me. I will buy from them. If it's 1-10 credit less than the next seller, I will buy from the next seller instead. 

 

[Darkestmonty]

6 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

They said it's left out because there is not enough space for all the information. But cool story bro.

Seeing how you speak of your fellow gtn sellers, while accusing them of animosity is ironic.

I do it all the time too. I don't want to support those 1 credit undercutters who have nothing else to do in game except undercut everything with 1 credit. If they undercut properly, that's fine by me. I will buy from them. If it's 1-10 credit less than the next seller, I will buy from the next seller instead. 

there is it. You are fixated on people who undercut. For you it is a sin but sensibly you only refuse to buy from those sellers. Other people take it too far and start stalking and harassing sellers that offend them.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[DeannaVoyager]

14 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

there is it. You are fixated on people who undercut. For you it is a sin but sensibly you only refuse to buy from those sellers. Other people take it too far and start stalking and harassing sellers that offend them.

You call wanting to have a freedom of choice a fixation? 🤣
Sure. But then you obviosly have a fixation to remove freedom of choice. The difference is, my "fixation" doesn't hurt the community, yours does. Curious... Are you really that bad at selling items in GTN that you need the game to force people to buy from you?  It shouldn't be that difficult and there are probably guides you can read about it.

If someone is stalking and harrassing you as a seller I'm not surprised. Seems like a self-inflicted problem considering how you are attacking me as a person just because I happen to disagree with you. It says a lot about you as a person and I can totally understand why people don't want to buy from you.

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

You call wanting to have a freedom of choice a fixation? 🤣
Sure. But then you obviosly have a fixation to remove freedom of choice. The difference is, my "fixation" doesn't hurt the community, yours does. Curious... Are you really that bad at selling items in GTN that you need the game to force people to buy from you?  It shouldn't be that difficult and there are probably guides you can read about it.

If someone is stalking and harrassing you as a seller I'm not surprised. Seems like a self-inflicted problem considering how you are attacking me as a person just because I happen to disagree with you. It says a lot about you as a person and I can totally understand why people don't want to buy from you.

You prove my point wonderfully, thank you.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[DeannaVoyager]

22 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

You prove my point wonderfully, thank you.

And you proved mine. 😉