Bring back Ranked PvP

[Bigfallenstar]

1 hour ago, Prapcaster said:

It's really interesting how all the excuses unravled from people. For years they said ranked was toxic and needed to be deleted. Now that ranked is gone they have the same excuses. Eight mans are an issue but they're hardly killing pvp. What's killing pvp is the same thing that's been killing it since 8v8 ranked existed. Care bears that demand they're pandered to or they'll burn everything down.

The same could be said about the ranked players, except they were violent than care bears, as they wanted anyone who didn't meet their impossible standards to stay out. Gatekeeping, death threats, insults, not having the right gear piece/tactical in their eyes, and not playing the class they want you to play. What killed ranked was that ranked players made that place as unwelcoming as possible.

[septru]

2 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

Ranked PvP is dead and was dead before Bioware officially ended it.

 

1 hour ago, Beyrahl said:

The population isn't there to have a functional match-making system....The most active recent season we had was season 12. Even then we didn't have enough for a functional match-maker.

 

4 hours ago, Wolvel said:

Let me be more clear, in past ranked seasons you would have people who where grinding top 3 in matches against people doing their first matches.

 

I'm starting to repeat myself here...

 

For the first 3 months of every season the ranked que was populated, including Season 12. As someone with multiple top3s from multiple seasons, including s12 and s14, I have first hand experience. At the beginning of S14 for example, during prime time there were on average 5-7 instances of arenas at the same time. That is about the same number of instances of warzones during prime time for PvP Seasons. If BioSword brought back 3 month ranked PvP seasons through a mixed opt-in ranked arena que, they would literally double the arena population. 

 

The problem was that these seasons, including s12, continued for 9 months. People lose interest when seasons last 12 months. It aint rocket science. The current PvP Season is no different. Have you seen the PvP que after the Season is finished? 

[septru]

3 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Now I am not trying to dog on the mode or say it was flawless nor am I trying to just point out its flaws. There were SOME competitive games and they were really fun, but in the nature of a low-population game, it's hard to get those. 

I completely agree with this, actually. But it comes back to your overall post. 

 

The biggest problem with SWTOR ranked was always low population. The low population exacerbated or even created a lot of other miscellaneous issues that you mention, including: toxicity, matchmaking, and fairness which I'm going to lump in with that clown who thinks that using voice comms is cheating.

 

Toxicity: the majority of toxicity occurred because X player showed up to ranked with 306 gear, or no tactical, or didn't press any defenses, or honestly all of the above. Now of course, the player was unprepared. But the bigger problem was that the population was so low, that X player was put against players grinding their top3. In an ideal world, that player goes against other unprepared players and eventually learns what he needs to prepare. 

 

Matchmaking: I'm not going into this one again. We've talked about it enough. 

 

Fairness: You mentioned a lot of different points that you lumped into "fairness." At the end of the day, if the population was not so low, none of these issues would exist. The best evidence of this, was that at the beginning of each ranked season (the first 3 months), you rarely if ever saw any of these issues. Because there were just too many people in the ranked que to predict matchmaking.

 

TLDR: All of your points are valid. There were numerous miscellaneous issues with ranked. However, all of these miscellaneous issues were either created or exacerbated by the nature of the low-population. It really is a shame that BioWare got rid of ranked PvP at the exact moment that they created PvP Seasons. Because honestly, I think PvP Seasons had the potential to solve all of the population issues with ranked. Ultimately, the mixed opt-in ranked arena que I propose would create a high-population arena que, where hopefully all of these miscellaneous issues you mention are resolved or abated. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by septru

[krackcommando]

1 minute ago, septru said:

The biggest problem with SWTOR ranked was always low population. The low population exacerbated or even created a lot of other issues that you mention, including: toxicity, matchmaking, and fairness which I'm going to lump in with that clown who thinks that using voice comms is cheating.

🤣😂🤣😅🤣

you'd need a post 5x longer than Beyral's to ever do justice to the problems with BW's handling of rated (WZs and arenas).

but really, I just wanted to 😂

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, Lord_Malganus said:

I doubt most here have any confidence in the dev team to be able to program it to actually work.

Prums idea is good. But youve hit the nail squarely on the head with your statement. Confidence in the devs ability is non existent these days and with good reason. And I 100% agree, I doubt they have the skills to write an algorithm properly or they’d have already done it 🤷🏻‍♀️

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, septru said:

I guess we can agree to disagree...

 

How many premades do you face when you que solo in arenas, atm? Is the population currently healthy enough to support a mixed que? Now add a bunch of returning players to that mix...

 

Ya the population is going to be just fine if they brought back ranked. 

There’s only one variable that I question & that’s returning players.

Realistically, how many people who left in disgust, would give this game another go? Even us still playing take anything the dev team says with a massive grain of salt because we expect nothing good anymore. 

I’m sure some would return. But this dev team has alienated so many veteran players over & over & over, repeatedly squared, that I think you might be too optimistic in your assessment. 

Of course I don’t know. Not even the devs would have the slightest clue how many might return. 

Honestly, I’m nearly at the point that I wish another Star Wars MMO would be released so we can finally let this one retire into the force. 
 

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, septru said:

There were numerous miscellaneous issues with ranked. However, all of these miscellaneous issues were either created or exacerbated by the nature of the low-population

Cross server queues would help.

[septru]

18 hours ago, Lord_Malganus said:

I doubt most here have any confidence in the dev team to be able to program it to actually work.

10 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I doubt they have the skills to write an algorithm properly or they’d have already done it

I'm the biggest dev skeptic on these forums. I've been talking how incompetent the devs are for years. But honestly, the old ranked matchmaking algorithm that they used in S14 was pretty good. It added the ELO of each player to create teams that had an similar average ELO. It also took into account role, and time waiting for a pop. The biggest issue with the old matchmaking algorithm was actually not the coding but the low-population. The problem was, if the population was low enough (which usually happened after the season continued for more than 3 month) 500 ELO players who repeatedly got globalled within seconds because they weren't prepared would consistently get matched against 2k ELO players that were grinding for top3. But again, that wasn't an issue with the algorithm, but the low-population. 

 

Obviously, the arena que that I propose would also have to account for premades,. But given the fact that they already have the framework for the a premade algorithm in the current PvP Season matchmaking system... I think it's doable. 

[septru]

10 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There’s only one variable that I question & that’s returning players.

All of them would come back. Without question. You'd be surprised how many people love the fundamentals of combat in this game. 

[sithBracer]

14 minutes ago, septru said:

I'm the biggest dev skeptic on these forums. I've been talking how incompetent the devs are for years. But honestly, the old ranked matchmaking algorithm that they used in S14 was pretty good. It added the ELO of each player to create teams that had an similar average ELO. It also took into account role, and time waiting for a pop. The biggest issue with the old matchmaking algorithm was actually not the coding but the low-population. The problem was, if the population was low enough (which usually happened after the season continued for more than 3 month) 500 ELO players who repeatedly got globalled within seconds because they weren't prepared would consistently get matched against 2k ELO players that were grinding for top3. But again, that wasn't an issue with the algorithm, but the low-population. 

 

Obviously, the arena que that I propose would also have to account for premades,. But given the fact that they already have the framework for the a premade algorithm in the current PvP Season matchmaking system... I think it's doable. 

step 1: bring back a broken system, that he admits is broken

step 2: allow premades to queue in this broken system (because we don't have enough premades complaints as it is)

step 3: ?????????????

step 4: perfect system for everyone

Edited September 18, 2023 by sithBracer

[Beyrahl]

14 hours ago, septru said:

If BioSword brought back 3 month ranked PvP seasons through a mixed opt-in ranked arena que, they would literally double the arena population. 

Doubling nothing is still nothing. It needs a lot more than just a little bit of an increase, I did mention ways they could peak interest in modes but ultimately if handled poorly everyone will just see it as the old mode reskinned with the same issues. It would most likely be as I don't see them putting in that much effort considering the whole PvP forums has been complaining about madness, only for them to buff it - while it's not that big of a deal because it was already stronger than majority, it does feel like a slap in the face. There's a lot they could do to generally help PvP and with low effort.

PvP is the game mode for every single game out there that is relatively low maintenance. It's infinitely repeatable and nearly always dynamic. The smallest things of talent reordering, new tacticals, meta shifts, balance changes, and simple things that even happen with PvE first in mind heavily impact PvP also. In most of the 8v8 maps I enjoy, OPG really is the only sore thumb because both objectively speaking and TDM speaking it's a mess. While it does seem they sometimes have PvP in mind, they're out of touch and it's obvious. 
 

14 hours ago, septru said:

For the first 3 months of every season the ranked que was populated, including Season 12.

The start and end of seasons always have spikes but still have the same problems, there was never "too many people in queue" to avoid them. Bioware didn't care about peaks but rather overall metrics, they've always cared about overall metrics. It's why they're out of touch. If leaderboards were still here you could see the total amount of players ranked and see for yourself how low it actually dipped going forward. A lot of those players were also alts of just one person so it was even lower than it looked. 

14 hours ago, septru said:

People lose interest when seasons last 12 months.

Massive issue, but goes to show how much of a priority PvP actually is. 

14 hours ago, septru said:

Toxicity: the majority of toxicity occurred because X player showed up to ranked with 306 gear, or no tactical, or didn't press any defenses, or honestly all of the above. Now of course, the player was unprepared. But the bigger problem was that the population was so low, that X player was put against players grinding their top3. In an ideal world, that player goes against other unprepared players and eventually learns what he needs to prepare. 

Incentives to learn in the regular arena would have been great, sadly we only now have arena queues separated from warzones. So many were against me saying warzones are great for learning how to play because "arena" is so different. It's only true if took it as a relaxed objective-based mode, if you pushed yourself and put yourself into 1vX and or ran into being pressured all the time, it taught you many valuable lessons. The majority of players don't handle pressure well at all, so much so their damage and ability plummets, even "ranked" players, and I am not talking about 1vXing someone. But most will always pick the quick and easy method instead, only to be surprised by the lack of results. 

14 hours ago, septru said:

Matchmaking: I'm not going into this one again. We've talked about it enough. 

Because it's always been manipulated and that's probably never going to change. 

14 hours ago, septru said:

Fairness: You mentioned a lot of different points that you lumped into "fairness." At the end of the day, if the population was not so low, none of these issues would exist. The best evidence of this, was that at the beginning of each ranked season (the first 3 months), you rarely if ever saw any of these issues. Because there were just too many people in the ranked que to predict matchmaking.

As I said before, it was very much a thing. Known healer versus no healer, known tank versus first timer, and I am not talking about the random occurrences but rather the specific same known healer/tank. Everyone saw it, I don't need to go into it. Declining was common, many pure damage games would get a tank or healer backfill. Backfilling in general was common while I did state previously it's much more risky. Even I got thrown into matches like this due to being in the queue for so long. Throwing was common. Leaving was uncommon I will admit thanks to lockouts, someone in particular definitely drove the lockout requirement home as they'd constantly leave matches. 
Not going to go further because I am only trying to point out that it wasn't just "predicting matchmaking" going on, it was a lot more and nearly always present. Since you were a part of the "community" you already know most of who and what I am talking about. 

14 hours ago, septru said:

TLDR: All of your points are valid. There were numerous miscellaneous issues with ranked. However, all of these miscellaneous issues were either created or exacerbated by the nature of the low-population. It really is a shame that BioWare got rid of ranked PvP at the exact moment that they created PvP Seasons. Because honestly, I think PvP Seasons had the potential to solve all of the population issues with ranked. Ultimately, the mixed opt-in ranked arena que I propose would create a high-population arena que, where hopefully all of these miscellaneous issues you mention are resolved or abated. 

Normally I am the copium one here. But after reading this next quote, I have met my match.

19 hours ago, septru said:

Ya the population is going to be just fine if they brought back ranked. 

While we all want better for the game ranked has to be done right if it is ever to come back. We have a ton of issues that are relatively easy to fix, it'd be much better to start from there and work our way to something as big of a task as getting ranked done right. It's definitely wanted and if they ever did a poll I am sure most would agree that having some sort of competitive mode for PvP should happen.

The fact we have basic gear issues and a nonfunctional bolster really makes it hard for new PvPers to come into the game. Most do not look up anything about the game, see there's a bolster, think nothing of it, and play. Get smashed and never bothered to look back or learn why. If they came from WoW they'll think gear matters a ton, while it does matter to a bare min it's nowhere near as strong as WoW gearing / Item level differences. This really should be the most important priority for them, when they disabled the bolster nearly altogether due to augments and crystals breaking the bolster it should have been handled better. A lot even see the PvP as P2W due to gold augments and augments in general with how pricey they are, it's not a good look and it's not a fun point to explain because it makes you look like you're defending it. The point is no one likes it and it's incredibly easy for them to fix.

[sithBracer]

3 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

The fact we have basic gear issues and a nonfunctional bolster really makes it hard for new PvPers to come into the game. Most do not look up anything about the game, see there's a bolster, think nothing of it, and play. Get smashed and never bothered to look back or learn why. If they came from WoW they'll think gear matters a ton, while it does matter to a bare min it's nowhere near as strong as WoW gearing / Item level differences. This really should be the most important priority for them, when they disabled the bolster nearly altogether due to augments and crystals breaking the bolster it should have been handled better. A lot even see the PvP as P2W due to gold augments and augments in general with how pricey they are, it's not a good look and it's not a fun point to explain because it makes you look like you're defending it. The point is no one likes it and it's incredibly easy for them to fix.

no no no no no. according to you and everyone here all augments are cheap and we must always have augments because "muh arsenal merc". If a new player can't afford them, it's only because they are lazy. You and the rest of the this board told me so. We should have even higher augments that cost even more money because "muh arsenal merc", remember?

[krackcommando]

3 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

no no no no no. according to you and everyone here all augments are cheap and we must always have augments because "muh arsenal merc". If a new player can't afford them, it's only because they are lazy. You and the rest of the this board told me so. We should have even higher augments that cost even more money because "muh arsenal merc", remember?

please stop. you're just trolling. you said as much to me in DMs. you didn't know what you were talking about regarding augments and were made to look the fool because of it. just....stop. please. and thank you.

[sithBracer]

50 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

please stop. you're just trolling. you said as much to me in DMs. you didn't know what you were talking about regarding augments and were made to look the fool because of it. just....stop. please. and thank you.

I didn't know what I was talking about? Do you think I don't know what augments do? I "the troll" have been consistent from the beginning and I still am. You are constantly changing your opinion.

Your argument: "augments are fine", "everyone can afford them", "oh wait they're not fine because gold", "but I NEEEEEEED them because muh arsenal merc", "oh they dont make that much difference", "oh wait, now gold does make a difference", "everyone can afford them, its fine", "oh wait golds are super expensive and not everyone can afford them", "but muh arsenal merc, someone think of muh arsenal merc".  

And when I asked you to prove to me that new players can easily afford it by creating a new account and getting fully augmented, what was your response? "um um um, I think my dog is calling me, Im too busy".

Edited September 18, 2023 by sithBracer

[krackcommando]

28 minutes ago, sithBracer said:

I didn't know what I was talking about? Do you think I don't know what augments do? I "the troll" have been consistent from the beginning and I still am. You are constantly changing your opinion.

Your argument: "augments are fine", "everyone can afford them", "oh wait they're not fine because gold", "but I NEEEEEEED them because muh arsenal merc", "oh they dont make that much difference", "oh wait, now gold does make a difference", "everyone can afford them, its fine", "oh wait golds are super expensive and not everyone can afford them", "but muh arsenal merc, someone think of muh arsenal merc".  

And when I asked you to prove to me that new players can easily afford it by creating a new account and getting fully augmented, what was your response? "um um um, I think my dog is calling me, Im too busy".

I'm not doing this with you again. here's where the debate begins: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/928972-its-starting-to-get-really-quiet-out-there/?do=findComment&comment=9757220

you were utterly misinformed, gathering and using resources wrong, and your great big trump card of an argument was the "duel me bro" default by challenging me to create a new account from the ground up just to prove that it's not difficult to make your own augs. as if anyone would do that. go away. really dude. just go away. we're done here.

Edited September 18, 2023 by krackcommando

[sithBracer]

6 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

I'm not doing this with you again. here's where the debate begins: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/928972-its-starting-to-get-really-quiet-out-there/?do=findComment&comment=9757220

you were utterly misinformed, gathering and using resources wrong, and your great big trump card of an argument was the "duel me bro" default by challenging me to create a new account from the ground up just to prove that it's not difficult to make your own augs. as if anyone would do that. go away. really dude. just go away. we're done here.

Duel me bro? I never asked you to duel me because I don't believe 1v1 means anything and I don't bully weak people.

Also, you STARTED this argument just now, and now you're just running away from your own statements? Is your dog calling you again? 

Can you be consistent in ANYTHING you say?

Edited September 18, 2023 by sithBracer

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, septru said:

All of them would come back. Without question. You'd be surprised how many people love the fundamentals of combat in this game. 

I’m not too sure about that. How many times has BioSword burnt their bridges with said players? At some point people realise that doing the same thing over & over & expecting a different result is a fruitless endeavour.

Edited September 18, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

8 hours ago, septru said:

I'm the biggest dev skeptic on these forums. I've been talking how incompetent the devs are for years. But honestly, the old ranked matchmaking algorithm that they used in S14 was pretty good. It added the ELO of each player to create teams that had an similar average ELO. It also took into account role, and time waiting for a pop. The biggest issue with the old matchmaking algorithm was actually not the coding but the low-population. The problem was, if the population was low enough (which usually happened after the season continued for more than 3 month) 500 ELO players who repeatedly got globalled within seconds because they weren't prepared would consistently get matched against 2k ELO players that were grinding for top3. But again, that wasn't an issue with the algorithm, but the low-population. 

So a couple of points here.

1. While you are right that they did a much better job with the match making algorithm for solo ranked by season 14. That was only in a solo queue situation, not a mixed queue with premades in it. I just don’t think they can make the ELO system work properly in a mixed queue. If they could easily do that, they would have applied it already. 

2. Total PvP population (not just ranked players) was much higher than S14. Also total game population was 40% higher then too. So you’re already well below the bare minimum in population for match making to work. And that’s before trying to accommodate for a mixed type of PvP queue.

3. The Devs who helped write the S14 algorithm might not be part of swtor anymore. 

I just don’t think there is enough player confidence in the BioSword dev team to bring enough players back to solve the population issue. And even if there was, the swtor dev team has never proved it can write a proper algorithm for a mixed queue. Lastly, just for arguments sake, let’s say those devs from S14 could write an algorithm that could work in a mixed queue, did those same devs transfer over to Broadsword or did they stay at EAware? 

Edited September 18, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[krackcommando]

18 minutes ago, Lord_Malganus said:

they never proved they could program separating pre-mades from solo Q giving players The Choice between them.

at no point ever was giving regs a "choice" between playing solo or grp a thing. they changed the matchmaking priorities to make sure grps were in matches against other groups when possible, and that DID happen. whatever you're referring to was never a stated goal or purpose of their programing in the first place.

if you wanted to guarantee solo matches, you could queue solo arenas. if you wanted to guarantee grp vs. grp, you could queue rated arenas. everything else always has been, and always has intended to be, a mixed queue. in fact, that is the ONLY positive about the deserter debuff: it made it harder to super-Q.... then BW expanded the max premade size to 8m, and that eliminated the need to manufacture super-Qs to circumvent the matchmaker. another example of beware what you ask of BW. b/c they certainly solved the super-Qs circumventing the matchmaker problem. 🤨

[Prapcaster]

21 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

The same could be said about the ranked players, except they were violent than care bears, as they wanted anyone who didn't meet their impossible standards to stay out. Gatekeeping, death threats, insults, not having the right gear piece/tactical in their eyes, and not playing the class they want you to play. What killed ranked was that ranked players made that place as unwelcoming as possible.

There'sa lot to unpack there so lets's break it down from most stupid to least stupid.

1. "Queueing with the wrong or bad gear": If you queue with the wrong gear or lack of good gear you deserved to get vote kicked. Not gonna sugar coat that if you did that it's your own fault.

2.  "Insults": Buddy this is a video game and hostile personailiteis have always been a part of the internet and won't be going away. Pinning that on the ranked community alone is just blatantly lying because you got your feelings hurt.

3. "Gatekeeping": literally every area of the game does this stop dropping buzz words. I hang out with rpers a lot and I'm shocked with the amount of cliques and gatekeeping that goes on in those guilds. Same with the pve community it's all the same. 

4. "Death Threats": Never saw any myself but not gonna say it doesn't happen because I've seen it happen in other games that I raid in.

5. "Playing the wrong classes": Sorry man that's just the way she goes with pvp in every mmo. Devs will nerf classes to being unviable and nobody wants thopse on their team to anchor them. That's not a playerbase issue it's an mmo issue.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Prapcaster

[Beyrahl]

5 hours ago, sithBracer said:

no no no no no. according to you and everyone here all augments are cheap and we must always have augments because "muh arsenal merc". If a new player can't afford them, it's only because they are lazy. You and the rest of the this board told me so. We should have even higher augments that cost even more money because "muh arsenal merc", remember?

You've got me confused with someone else, I play Arsenal like 4-5 times a year if that even. 
I've advocated for new augments that are cheap to avoid the current issue, even a PvP-only augment that'd be earned via the vendor to further avoid this issue. Countless posts in my history explaining bolster, augments, and the total stats from 332/336/339 including how blue augments don't even sync correctly. My stance on gear and bolster hasn't budged.

I would again hope you've got something better to do than bait and intentionally argue with people on SWTOR forums of all things. 

[krackcommando]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:59 PM, Bigfallenstar said:

The same could be said about the ranked players, except they were violent than care bears, as they wanted anyone who didn't meet their impossible standards to stay out. Gatekeeping, death threats, insults, not having the right gear piece/tactical in their eyes, and not playing the class they want you to play. What killed ranked was that ranked players made that place as unwelcoming as possible.

So…I don’t know what life is/was like for you, but in the lean years of rated arenas (~s3-5ish?), I noticed names from the dominant guilds on my origin server having returned to JC from Pot5 (they had transferred there to compete in rated WZs before the arenas bait and switch).

Anyway…that dominant guild was also the server’s top PVE progression guild. Individually there were some nice guys and some jerks, but as a guild they were generally perceived as your typical elitist jerks. <— that is literally all that I saw in arenas.

It wasn’t some special sort of bad actors. It’s just the elitists who take their gaming seriously and set their expectations of others equal to the expectations they have for themselves. And just like when their guild wipes on a boss fight because the newbie sub on the team that week wasn’t pulling his weight triggered them, so too does having a teammate who isn’t even wearing the proper armor…let alone playing his class at (what the elitist considers) an acceptable level - which is actually a sliding subjective scale based on competency relative to the person’s skill who is making the judgement.

my point is this: with the exception of one or two egregiously bad actors (like the aforementioned Mara main), all of the sniping, shaming, and aggression I experienced in rated arenas was no different from what I’ve witnessed in progression raiding…or any other team sport at almost every level. And the fact that solo rated literally turned random strangers into teammates (instead of constructing your own raid team) definitely hiked up the frustration players felt toward those who were not ‘good” or performing at acceptable levels. 

and it did get really bad at times. I don’t deny that. Yet there were also a lot of ppl dipping their toes in and running away screaming who just had no business playing in an intense atmosphere. Honestly, there were a lot of naive players who basically treated rated like a typical SM OPs or Vet FP that you could just /faceroll your keyboard through, which was about as likely as jumping into a NiM raid with all the experience and gear from having completed your class and planetary quests.

iunno. I think both sides of this are putting a partisan spin on the toxicity of rated arenas. I’ve seen elitist jerks totally flame ppl and get really personal/aggressive, but I’ve seen a lot of players completely disrespect the spirit of high end gaming through shear entitlement of walking into rated unprepared and expecting everyone around them to what? Magically welcome them with open arms and coach them on the fly. 

[sithBracer]

10 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

You've got me confused with someone else, I play Arsenal like 4-5 times a year if that even. 
I've advocated for new augments that are cheap to avoid the current issue, even a PvP-only augment that'd be earned via the vendor to further avoid this issue. Countless posts in my history explaining bolster, augments, and the total stats from 332/336/339 including how blue augments don't even sync correctly. My stance on gear and bolster hasn't budged.

I probably got you confused with someone else, my apologies. After a while all forum posters look alike to me lol.

[merovejec]

As we can see in this thread only 3 people actually want ranked back, so there is no point.

Now its great without ranked.

They only want ranked back now as they will be the only few people beating everyone and getting their titles. There is no point in this. There was cheating before and will be cheating in the future. It will be even worse when there are less players in the game like now.

[Wolvel]

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