Can we get free transfers off dead servers please?

[DarthAlastor]

Well I can't speak for everyone else but my reasoning is not wanting to deal with the lag. Just last night I was doing the dailies in Section X and got a huge lag spike because there was a group of people fighting the boss in there

[Darkestmonty]

4 minutes ago, DarthAlastor said:

Well I can't speak for everyone else but my reasoning is not wanting to deal with the lag. Just last night I was doing the dailies in Section X and got a huge lag spike because there was a group of people fighting the boss in there

so you do play on an EU server, in fact you played there just last night?

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[DarthAlastor]

No I play on SS

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

The individuals posting in this thread are not irrelevant.  Facts are not irrelevant. 

100% Agreed.

I count only 2 people asking for mergers & everyone else is basically against them. This thread isn’t even about mergers. It’s about free or cheap transfers off a dead server for group content.

One doesn’t have to wonder who has the more relevant point of view. And it’s not the 2 people derailing this thread by spam arguing & trolling everyone for something no one wants or has asked for. 

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

What's stopping you from playing Darth Malgus, Tulak Hord, or Leviathan if there was a single NA server?

The huge amount of lag. Mine literally goes from 230ms to 350ms and that’s not including ping spikes up to 500-700ms. 

[OlBuzzard]

42 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

The huge amount of lag. Mine literally goes from 230ms to 350ms and that’s not including ping spikes up to 500-700ms. 

I can't imagine attempting to do PvP with that sort of response time!  Even PvE would be dodgy at best!

[Darkestmonty]

7 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

I can't imagine attempting to do PvP with that sort of response time!  Even PvE would be dodgy at best!

it's doable in Warzones because even with 20ms pings Warzones are laggy. People teleporting when trying to leap, force pushing someone in front of you and suddenly they go flying sideways, leaping to a target only to rubber band back. Hitting a skill multiple times for it to never go off.

Arena and GSF is where I have issues when my ping is over 100ms. I don't understand why Warzones are so laggy no matter what ping you have while Arena and GSF (even 16 man ops in some cases) seem fine with 20ms latency.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Samcuu]

5 hours ago, DarthAlastor said:

Well I can't speak for everyone else but my reasoning is not wanting to deal with the lag. Just last night I was doing the dailies in Section X and got a huge lag spike because there was a group of people fighting the boss in there

If ur trying to stay on an NA server a transfer wouldn't help. As far as I know both NA servers are located in the same exact physical location. If ur EU then yeah a switch would help I assume. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Samcuu

[DarthAlastor]

17 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

If ur trying to stay on an NA server a transfer wouldn't help. As far as I know both NA servers are located in the same exact physical location. If ur EU then yeah a switch would help I assume.

I'm not looking to move at all I'm pretty happy playing on SS

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

If ur trying to stay on an NA server a transfer wouldn't help. As far as I know both NA servers are located in the same exact physical location. If ur EU then yeah a switch would help I assume. 

If you read up a bit further, he want to keep SS and SF separated because if SS goes down he has a low latency alternate server to play for the hour or so the server is down.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

it's doable in Warzones because even with 20ms pings Warzones are laggy. People teleporting when trying to leap, force pushing someone in front of you and suddenly they go flying sideways, leaping to a target only to rubber band back. Hitting a skill multiple times for it to never go off.

Arena and GSF is where I have issues when my ping is over 100ms. I don't understand why Warzones are so laggy no matter what ping you have while Arena and GSF (even 16 man ops in some cases) seem fine with 20ms latency.

You obviously have zero experience in competitive PvP or playing with 200-700ms ping.

I’m guessing you’re in the US, so even playing on the EU servers would only add 70-80ms to your speed.

When you actually have first hand experience, let us know 😉

Edited July 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Darkestmonty]

22 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

You obviously have zero experience in competitive PvP or playing with 200-700ms ping.

I’m guessing you’re in the US, so even playing on the EU servers would only add 70-80ms to your speed.

When you actually have first hand experience, let us know 😉

obviously not... oh wait, yes I do, I complete PvP season on every server. My ping usually hovers around 250ms on the EU servers. I even play a bit of GSF but that is a bit harder since it requires actual aiming, not tab targeting and pressing a key. I only play Warzones on the EU servers though. Not much of an Arena fan.

While we are talking about things people have no clue about, did you dig up that Dev post about AWS servers giving us cross server queues, trade, grouping, and GTN like you said... oh wait, you deleted that post because you made that information up to support being against server merges.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TziganeNZ]

20 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

except you bought it up first in this very thread.

And you've just proved that you are a troll.  Because NOWHERE in this thread did I ever mention 6.0 gearing or the debacle that was 7.0.  You've dredged this up from who-knows-where in an attempt to gaslight and invalidate my opinion.  The only time I mentioned that I had left for over a year (other than in my reply to you last night) was a post about the removal of conquest and the sense of progression, and that was replying to something completely different,

I'm all in favour of significantly reducing the cost for server transfers, to assist those who wish to move to do so.  Totally agree with the OP for this thread.

PS: If you're going to troll, at least get your spelling and grammar right - it's 'brought', not 'bought'.  'Bought' is the past tense of 'buy'.

[Darkestmonty]

1 minute ago, TziganeNZ said:

And you've just proved that you are a troll.  Because NOWHERE in this thread did I ever mention 6.0 gearing or the debacle that was 7.0.  You've dredged this up from who-knows-where in an attempt to gaslight and invalidate my opinion.  The only time I mentioned that I had left for over a year (other than in my reply to you last night) was a post about the removal of conquest and the sense of progression, and that was replying to something completely different,

I'm all in favour of significantly reducing the cost for server transfers, to assist those who wish to move to do so.  Totally agree with the OP for this thread.

PS: If you're going to troll, at least get your spelling and grammar right - it's 'brought', not 'bought'.  'Bought' is the past tense of 'buy'.

Not a troll, but I am horrible at spelling. I'm not going to deny that when I type something the whole paragraph lights up red.

23 hours ago, TziganeNZ said:

I can't and won't speak for anyone else but having been through several server merges (both with SWTOR and other games) and lost names, character slots etc, if another server merge were to happen, I would log out, unsub, uninstall the game and never come back. 

Bringing up that you have threatened to quit before and never did is not to invalidate your opinion, it is to invalidate your threat of leaving the game if you didn't like the game changes. One day it maybe true, but considering you have been with the game since 2011, survived 3 merges and constant changes in gearing, I suspect you will be with the game until it shuts down. I'm right there with you, I may leave for a while if I get board, but I'll always come back.

I do think most of your reasons for being against a server merge are frivolous compared to retaining players and keeping group content viable. But then again you don't care about group content because you are... "a solo player. I will NEVER group for Operations etc. There is NOTHING that will ever make me group."

Your argument about losing names is very valid, I understand that. I sympathize because I have lost nearly every name I picked but I don't think keeping a character name is more important than merging a server if the population drops to low to support group content.

Losing character slots that you refuse to fill, that's on you. And that isn't even an issue unless you play multiple server and your character count after the merge will exceed the number of character slots you unlocked. But even then you retain full access to any characters created so in essence it's actually a net gain. You could push that net gain even further by filling all empty character slots before a merger and duplicating names to force at least half your characters into a free name change you can pick later when you want to play that character.

But anyway, if you are going to use the "I will quit" card, you can only use it once. After that trying to use it again when you never quit the last time... kind of invalidates any future threats.

[Stradlin]

5 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

100% Agreed.

I count only 2 people asking for mergers & everyone else is basically against them. This thread isn’t even about mergers. It’s about free or cheap transfers off a dead server for group content.

One doesn’t have to wonder who has the more relevant point of view. And it’s not the 2 people derailing this thread by spam arguing & trolling everyone for something no one wants or has asked for. 

Yeah as we all know, whether merges and such happen is determined when BW/Broadsword drop by to measure  the amount of for&against-noise in some arbitrarily chosen forum thread and then make decision based on that!

 

..This is  one of those things where you being for or against it truly doesn't matter in any way.  Sorry to say, but neither is " relevant" here. Broadsword has their own data and statistics about this stuff. Cold, hard numbers. How many people play on server Y.  How busy are the queues on the said server.  Are Ops, FPs, and the like alive and well, or withering away? Once character reaches max level and finishes story, does that player stick around and spend money on quiet server, when compared to the busy one? Things like that. I bet that is the noise they listen to, not some endearing "but but but I don't like seeing people and also  what if I lose my name?!?!?" stuff on forums.

 

I wonder if they can and want to do a soft merge or sorts, introducing  shared queues for SF and SS. Afaik, if we speaking purely in terms of hardware, they are only  barely two different servers even today, both being hosted under same roof, likely on same PCs even.

ITT people completely unable to have a disagreement without determining the person they're disagreeing with is a troll, lol- strop the ad hominem garbage,  folks.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Stradlin

[Jdast]

Darkestmonty,

Why are you so against allowing players to choose?

I'm special because I'm a Hutt who looks fabulous in a speedo while doing triple axles at the Winter Olympics (try to get the image out of your head. ).

You challenge others to defend or define their reasoning. The same applies to you...

Let there be free or low-cost server transfers. If you are so confident in your opinion, the numbers will speak volumes.

You scared? 

Dasty

[Darkestmonty]

Just now, Jdast said:

Darkestmonty,

Why are you so against allowing players to choose?

I'm special because I'm a Hutt who looks fabulous in a speedo while doing triple axles at the Winter Olympics (try to get the image out of your head. ).

You challenge others to defend or define their reasoning. The same applies to you...

Let there be free or low-cost server transfers. If you are so confident in your opinion, the numbers will speak volumes.

You scared? 

Dasty

Satele Shan has a population issue. It is why a lot of people want to leave. Outside of prime time hours and during the slow season it takes too long for group content to form if it forms at all. Queues are slower, grouping is slower, trade is slower, the GTN is not as well stocked; Satele Shan is barely above Tulak Hord in all aspects.

Free transfers will exasperate the all these issues and hasten the need for a server merge.

That and having a dead server around for new players to join just to find out SWTOR is dead doesn't help the games reputation or player retention.

[Jdast]

11 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Satele Shan has a population issue. It is why a lot of people want to leave. Outside of prime time hours and during the slow season it takes too long for group content to form if it forms at all. Queues are slower, grouping is slower, trade is slower, the GTN is not as well stocked; Satele Shan is barely above Tulak Hord in all aspects.

Free transfers will exasperate the all these issues and hasten the need for a server merge.

That and having a dead server around for new players to join just to find out SWTOR is dead doesn't help the games reputation or player retention.

Yet, there are number of players who, even in this very thread, disagree with you.

Forgive my language...who are you <<blank>> to invalidate their opinion?

I actually agree with a lot of your points. The difference is I respect people to disagree with me. It's what some us call == life.

Dasty

Edited July 27, 2023 by Jdast

[Darkestmonty]

57 minutes ago, Jdast said:

Yet, there are number of players who, even in this very thread, disagree with you.

Forgive my language...who are you <<blank>> to invalidate their opinion?

I actually agree with a lot of your points. The difference is I respect people to disagree with me. It's what some us call == life.

Dasty

Simple logic.

List of complaints people use against server merges are not more important than a server merge when Satele Shan's population gets so low it can not regularly support group content.

1) I don't want to be forced on a populated server where I will have to wait 30 seconds for a mission item to respawn

• Good news, the more people there are on a planet the more instances open up. Being on Satele Shan with 59 people in the one and only instance is actually more crowded than being on Star Forge with 179 people spread across three different instances. And bonus, you get to swap instances if you run into people!

2) I don't want to lose my character name

• No one wants to lose their character name but if Satele Shan reaches a point where group content can't be supported, a merge is going to have to happen unless the devs come  up with cross server grouping, queuing, etc.

3) I don't want to lose access to the empty character slots I refuse to fill across all the servers

• Plan ahead. And this is only an issue if you play on multiple servers and the merged character count will surpass your current character limit on a server. Even then it will only stop you from making new characters. A merger will not lock access characters that already exist.

4) Star Forge has a delicate Erotic Role Play community that will be destroyed if servers are merged with a PvP server

• No it won't. People on Star Forge already make fun of Erotic Role Play when it starts leaking in gen chat. The players from Satele Shan aren't going to change anything

5) Satele Shan has more elite PvPers. I don't want to merge and be stuck fighting PvErs and RPers.

• I play PvP on all servers and no server has elite PvPers that are better than all other servers

6) We need a back up server to play in case my actual server goes down

• We should keep a server around just as a back up for the few hours server may go down every few months?

7) I won't have space in my legacy bank if two servers merge

• Use characters to help store excess items.

 

None of the above concerns are more important that keeping group content in an MMO viable. Satele Shan isn't quite at the point where grouping is impossible, but unless cross server tech is developed to allow group content to work independent of the server you are located, a merger is inevitable.

We maybe a year or two away, but free server transfers will only hasten the need for a merger or cross server tech.

I've been with the game since release. I've been through at least two server merges and lost all of the important character names I had. I stayed on Satele Shan and watched it go from a busy server with bustling economy and quick GSF and Warzone pops with continuous OPs to what we have now.

Eventually the population on Satele Shan will reach a point where it won't be viable to keep the server around unless cross server tech will allow grouping, queues, the GTN, and trading to work independently of the server you are on.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

i see 1 big problem a lot of people not wane see again happing since its a big pain the crap like it was happing before.

and that is point 1 the more instances open up how much worse the lagg will become on that planet and thats something we all have see with the gelactic season 1 how big the lagg was on some planets since a lot off people have been doing the same GS missions quest there how hell the lagg was if a lot off people are on the same planet so its not good news at all its worse.

 

[Darcmoon]

27 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

 

1) I don't want to be forced on a populated server where I will have to wait 30 seconds for a mission item to respawn

• Good news, the more people there are on a planet the more instances open up. Being on Satele Shan with 59 people in the one and only instance is actually more crowded than being on Star Forge with 179 people spread across three different instances. And bonus, you get to swap instances if you run into people!

3) I don't want to lose access to the empty character slots I refuse to fill across all the servers

• Plan ahead. And this is only an issue if you play on multiple servers and the merged character count will surpass your current character limit on a server. Even then it will only stop you from making new characters. A merger will not lock access characters that already exist.

7) I won't have space in my legacy bank if two servers merge

• Use characters to help store excess items.

 

None of the above concerns are more important that keeping group content in an MMO viable.

1) On SF I’ve been in an instance with 80-90 people and either no second instance or the second instance couldn’t be transferred too. Additionally, some mobs and items haven’t been updated yet to respawn quicker even though players have let BW know.  It is still a valid concern for players. 
 

3) I hope you have filled up every character slot on every server you have available.  It doesn’t matter if you say you know you won’t need them, you could change your mind later!  I usually don’t know what race, origin, and/or combat style until just before I make them.  All ‘planning ahead’ would do is give me a load of toons I’d probably end up deleting because I made them in a hurry to fill slots and they don’t fit exactly what I imagine for that toon.  
 

7) Can I tell you where you have to store items?  How about what items your allowed to keep on which toons?   That’s how that comes across to me.  I put things in the legacy bank so they are available to all my toons on that legacy.  If I wanted to have to search different toons to find an item I wouldn’t use the legacy bank.  
 

Your opinion is that none of the concerns you listed are more important. You are entitled to your opinion but don’t be surprised if others disagree. 

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Darcmoon said:

1) On SF I’ve been in an instance with 80-90 people and either no second instance or the second instance couldn’t be transferred too. Additionally, some mobs and items haven’t been updated yet to respawn quicker even though players have let BW know.  It is still a valid concern for players. 
 

3) I hope you have filled up every character slot on every server you have available.  It doesn’t matter if you say you know you won’t need them, you could change your mind later!  I usually don’t know what race, origin, and/or combat style until just before I make them.  All ‘planning ahead’ would do is give me a load of toons I’d probably end up deleting because I made them in a hurry to fill slots and they don’t fit exactly what I imagine for that toon.  
 

7) Can I tell you where you have to store items?  How about what items your allowed to keep on which toons?   That’s how that comes across to me.  I put things in the legacy bank so they are available to all my toons on that legacy.  If I wanted to have to search different toons to find an item I wouldn’t use the legacy bank.  
 

Your opinion is that none of the concerns you listed are more important. You are entitled to your opinion but don’t be surprised if others disagree. 

1) Someone brought this up specifically on Coruscant so I actually logged on and took a population count. SS had 59 players in a single instance. SF had 120 players in one instance and 59 players split between two other instances. This has happened numerous times on SF where we had so many people multiple instances opened up which allowed people to avoid crowds more than if they were stuck with one instance. And yes, the opposite can happen when there is only one instance of a planet open. But wanting to avoid all people in an MMO is an unrealistic goal. And the devs are still lowering respawn timers for items. Nothing happens over night, it will take time to balance all the respawn timers.

3) So you play multiple servers. You have more characters across the multiple servers than you have character slots on any individual server. Congrats, you get to retain and play all your characters after a merge. Want to change character appearance? That's an option in game. True, you are limited by sex but every other option of your appearance can change. Want to change your name? You can use a CM name change or play it smart and duplicate names across all servers so when a merge happens you have a free name change while also retaining the name you like. Don't know what class you want... pick one, then pick your secondary class later. You have to make a choice. But you have always had to make this choice before server merges. At least now you get a second combat class option.

7) Poster complained about having two full legacy banks and if a server merge were to happen they would lose items. That's not how server merges work. The items in your legacy bank will be mailed to the first character you create or stored in your over flow. From there you can decide to delete duplicates, stores excess items on characters (whose personal bank capacity is the same as a legacy bank capacity), or sell the excess. I know this because I play every server. I've played multiple servers since the game released and continued to play multiple servers after every server merge. If you can't figure out how to store lesser used items on characters instead of tossing everything in the legacy bank, that's your inability to organize.  Even with nearly 50 characters on a single server I can store two bank tabs of gear for DPS/Tank/Heals, one tab with dyes, one tab with only BOL cosmetic gear, one tab for dropping and selling items, while leaving an empty tab open for transferring large amounts of items. Refusing to organize your inventory has nothing to do with a server merge.

My opinion is that no single persons concern is more important keeping group content viable and the game active. No ones name, empty character slots they refuse to fill, or inability to organize are going to matter if the games population drops so low it can not reliably support group content.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Toraak]

13 hours ago, DarthAlastor said:

Ok so lets say they do merge the servers into one big NA server. Then that server crashes for an indeterminate amount of time. You think that's good for the overall health of the game? Not everyone plays on all servers

This is 100% true. I've made this point earlier, and it was for the most part ignored by those that are demanding a merger with SF, and SS. Star Forge goes down a lot over the last few months. When it does I can then go play on SS instead of logging out of the game for hours. I don't like playing on the EU server much due to the lag, so as far as I'm concerned if a merger happens for SF, and SS I won't be able to play if the server crashes.

 

And all of the points Darkesmonty makes are his opinion only. They give a reason why people should have the option for getting a free or Cheaper transfer off of SS, but since his views are only for 1 form of gameplay (Group content), it is just that HIS OPINION. There are many forms of content in this game that do not require a group. GTN on SS is stocked well for people to get things they want or need, as is making credits if that is your playstyle. Plenty of things for people to do solo with story, heroics, dailies etc.. 

 

From what I've seen of SS most of that population tends to be more solo player oriented anyway, so there is absolutely no need for that merger.

 

Broadsword will merge them if they feel it's necessary, but they have not even mentioned the need to do so at this time. That alone tell me SS has enough players on it.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Toraak

[TrixxieTriss]

21 minutes ago, Toraak said:

I've made this point earlier, and it was for the most part ignored by those that are demanding a merger with SF, and SS. Star Forge goes down a lot over the last few months. When it does I can then go play on SS instead of logging out of the game for hours. I don't like playing on the EU server much due to the lag, so as far as I'm concerned if a merger happens for SF, and SS I won't be able to play if the server crashes

It wasn’t ignored. It’s been explained in multiple threads that the game is migrating to AWS servers. Which is a cloud based system for Amazon. So the current hardware issues won’t be relevant because it will be different hardware. 

And for AWS, it doesn’t matter specifically if the servers stay seperate because they will be virtual servers (like instances) on probably the “SAME” physical hardware server located somewhere in the USA. So if one goes down, they both go down. 

The good thing though, is Amazon have many AWS locations in NA. So if the usual hardware goes down, it’s possible they can run at another location with minimal disruption (as long as Broadsword pay to set it up like that). 

So to sum up, the argument for having seperate swtor servers to play on, just in case one goes off line, is no longer a viable argument because it will be null & void once swtor is ported to AWS sometime soon™️.

** that doesn’t mean I agree with merging the servers. I don’t.

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Darkestmonty]

34 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It wasn’t ignored. It’s been explained in multiple threads that the game is migrating to AWS servers. Which is a cloud based system for Amazon. So the current hardware issues won’t be relevant because it will be different hardware. 

And for AWS, it doesn’t matter specifically if the servers stay seperate because they will be virtual servers (like instances) on probably the “SAME” physical hardware server located somewhere in the USA. So if one goes down, they both go down. 

The good thing though, is Amazon have many AWS locations in NA. So if the usual hardware goes down, it’s possible they can run at another location with minimal disruption (as long as Broadsword pay to set it up like that). 

So to sum up, the argument for having seperate swtor servers to play on, just in case one goes off line, is no longer a viable argument because it will be null & void once swtor is ported to AWS sometime soon™️.

** that doesn’t mean I agree with merging the servers. I don’t.

 

Still waiting on that dev post stating AWS will allow cross sever queues, grouping, and trading.

I hope it becomes a reality but I'm not going to place any faith into a system that is based on conjecture. I know server transfers work so until the devs post otherwise, I'll place my faith in merges before cross server capabilities that haven't even been announced.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darkestmonty