How do you even go about fixing such a fragmented story with so little momentum?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, Ardrossan said:

Given the way the ten year anniversary went down and other overhyped ideas from bioware, I expect it to be very much closer to the way Game of Thrones ended--expect cataclysmic disappointment.

I think it's safe to say you can take that to the bank.

If they let me cut Malgus's head off with a Lightsaber at the end though, I'd be happy though with at least that much.

I don't even feel that I have much invested in the story line at this point as it is. (although I haven't played the story yet in 7.3, so I'm referring only up til 7.2.)

Edited June 18, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DawnAskham]

All aspects of this game have been circling the drain for years. 

I made my peace with it (even though I still provide my feedback) years ago. 

It is only because I love Star Wars, the original game that built out a great Star Wars world to play in (at a cost in the hundreds of millions), and the friends and family who play, that I even bother with SWTOR anymore.

It is also why I only play for a few months out of every few years.

Face facts, the story is NEVER going to return to what it was at launch, the pace of content - whether story or new planets or flashpoints or operations or events or whatever - is NEVER going to increase beyond the trickle we've seen for years.

Heck the game itself is NEVER getting a 'real' expansion as the word is used in other MMOs.

The staff at Bioware, while never fully supported or given sufficient resources, have been coasting off the Star Wars IP and the original game for years now while EA has been taking the money made and using it to fund other projects.

Edited June 18, 2023 by DawnAskham

[Whykara]

33 minutes ago, DawnAskham said:

The staff at Bioware, while never fully supported or given sufficient resources, have been coasting off the Star Wars IP and the original game for years now while EA has been taking the money made and using it to fund other projects.

Well Bioware is losing this game so who knows what's coming after

[OlBuzzard]

Loose ends?  Hmmm .. let's see.

** Malgus is on ice with a bad case of lock-jaw!  IMO he's just messin' with everyone.  Or at least that's the impression we get.  Very few lines in the overall script of things.  Biding his time?  Is he expecting someone / something special coming soon?  He certainly is laid back (doesn't seem to be too concerned about the overall situation.
** And what of the conflict between the Republic and the Empire?  OK ... I get the whole Manaan episode. Details!  Details!  Details!! (???)  It IS possible that these movements were intentionally left out.  Setting the stage for something else?  A finale of sorts?  Or it could be that someone is just counting lines of dialogue and keeping things under budget.  OR ... maybe both!
** Subtle differences showing up within the Mandalorian ranks.  OK  .. some of them not so subtle ... watching someone getting shoved out the airlock!!  (That data pad that Ri'Kan moved and was unnoticed was foreshadowing of something.)
** Remember Lane Vizla and that special project we were to track down?  
** Ri'Kan is becoming more and more agitated.  
** The Voss don't bother me nearly as much as dead-end streets.  Yeah .. they're a bit snooty!  (So what else is new).  Arrogance comes in all shapes and sizes.  The results are usually about the same.

How much time and money is available to finish this???

Would it matter?

EDIT:  IMO ...it's not just a matter of all of the different aspects of the story.  Heck some of it (if done right) would make a good mystery story.

The REAL question is whether or not the writers will be given what they need to do what needs to be done to complete this as it so desperately needs to be.

Edited June 20, 2023 by OlBuzzard
clarification / completion (sorry ... I was rushed earlier)

[TahliahCOH]

I think the root of the problem is in trying to streamline stories so that there's one story that crams in every class, rather than having separate stories for each which would make more sense (but I guess be more expensive). After Chapter 3, it's all kind of meh, no matter what you are running. And it's particularly bad if you are on a smuggler or a trooper (or an agent or bounty hunter). What smuggler wants to be queen (or king) of the entire galaxy or whatever? So insane. A sith, sure. A jedi, maybe, but not the others. At least not if you follow through from the original storylines; you really have to come up with your own fanfic to make it work at all. And then it all falls apart because you, on a non-force toon, have defeated an immortal, world-eating force (with your trusty blaster!) . . . and are now sweeping up in a cantina on Voss. It makes zero sense.

But it's done now. I don't see how it can be fixed. I mean how do you go back to the original storylines now? What would that even look like? It would have to be a sort of Bob Newhart moment where your agent wakes up at the start of her own Chapter 4, and all that other stuff was all a dream. Or something.

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, TahliahCOH said:

I think the root of the problem is in trying to streamline stories so that there's one story that crams in every class, rather than having separate stories for each which would make more sense (but I guess be more expensive). After Chapter 3, it's all kind of meh, no matter what you are running. And it's particularly bad if you are on a smuggler or a trooper (or an agent or bounty hunter). What smuggler wants to be queen (or king) of the entire galaxy or whatever? So insane. A sith, sure. A jedi, maybe, but not the others. At least not if you follow through from the original storylines; you really have to come up with your own fanfic to make it work at all. And then it all falls apart because you, on a non-force toon, have defeated an immortal, world-eating force (with your trusty blaster!) . . . and are now sweeping up in a cantina on Voss. It makes zero sense.

But it's done now. I don't see how it can be fixed. I mean how do you go back to the original storylines now? What would that even look like? It would have to be a sort of Bob Newhart moment where your agent wakes up at the start of her own Chapter 4, and all that other stuff was all a dream. Or something.

LOL !!  I mentioned Newhart myself!

Yeah!  This is all a BAD dream!  Well ... that's not exactly where Bob was at ...  BUT!  Who knows.  Maybe we'll wake up one day and discover that recent events have just been a REALLY BAD dream!

Yeah!  That's the ticket!

HEY!!  Don't laugh!  That's as good an explanation as anything else going right now!!!

ROFL!!!!

Edited June 20, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[TahliahCOH]

52 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

LOL !!  I mentioned Newhart myself!

Yay! I missed that (having not actually read the thread before posting), but I'll go find it now. As corny as it sounds, that's the only way to get back to our actual original storylines at this point. It was all a dream (really, a nightmare), and we all wake up back on our ships with our real comps and off on the next adventure. Heck, sith and jedi might go on to the post-original storylines as some kind of vision thing, but no way does that work for non-force users.

Every time my smuggler (or agent or bounty hunter or trooper) had to "mediatate," at this altar or that pile of bones, I just wanted to scream. Smugglers don't meditate at freaking altars, bounty hunters don't go on vision quests, and it's all completely bonkers.

[TahliahCOH]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:33 PM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

We get letters from nobodies all the time

This is so annoying to me!  I don't give a fig what some stupid nobody has to say, and at this point, I consider Major Anri and her annoying padawan to be stalkers. I hate them both (Anri less so, but I do hate her "incoming" crazy; nothing is "incoming" but a heal, so annoying), and I never want to hear from or see them again. But they keep writing as if my toon is their bestest friend. So not.

And while I'm on my gripe box, I also want to note that the whole "please love Vette" thing in the KO expansion is super annoying. I kill Vette every chance I get, and the writers trying too hard thing is part of the reason on my non-SW (they keep her) or BH toons (they kill her for obvious reasons). 

Sort of off-topic but completely bugging me: If there is an arc here at all (and I very much doubt it), then Lana is the next big bad. She's the puppet-master, granting the "Alliance leader" power while she pulls the strings. I'm ready to toss her out an airlock, too, actually.

Sorry, got off on a bit of rant here, but this nonsensical story is really annoying.

[Whykara]

13 minutes ago, TahliahCOH said:

I consider Major Anri and her annoying padawan to be stalkers

Major Anri got a padawan? Good for her, goes to show how tolerant the Empire has become

 

[fabsus]

i think one of the problems is that they have a very selective perception and only listen to the voices that cheer them. as you can see on twitter, they cheer themselves for their performance. 
it will be difficult for them to look at their story from a different perspective and perhaps realise that it is not that good, to be polite. not only is it not that good, it is also completely irrelevant and a few days later it is forgotten. the way the stories are told is also rather sub-par. 
it really was worlds better in the past. 
But when you flatter yourself for so little, so below-average storytelling, you don't need to hope for a 7.4. 
But with the broadsword story, i suspect there will be a rush to make a hard cut. 
i would really like to see an external review process here, so that at least the basics are adhered to and the story doesn't have a kindergarten level. 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, TahliahCOH said:

This is so annoying to me!  I don't give a fig what some stupid nobody has to say, and at this point, I consider Major Anri and her annoying padawan to be stalkers. I hate them both (Anri less so, but I do hate her "incoming" crazy; nothing is "incoming" but a heal, so annoying), and I never want to hear from or see them again. But they keep writing as if my toon is their bestest friend. So not.

And while I'm on my gripe box, I also want to note that the whole "please love Vette" thing in the KO expansion is super annoying. I kill Vette every chance I get, and the writers trying too hard thing is part of the reason on my non-SW (they keep her) or BH toons (they kill her for obvious reasons). 

Sort of off-topic but completely bugging me: If there is an arc here at all (and I very much doubt it), then Lana is the next big bad. She's the puppet-master, granting the "Alliance leader" power while she pulls the strings. I'm ready to toss her out an airlock, too, actually.

Sorry, got off on a bit of rant here, but this nonsensical story is really annoying.

It's kinda funny because I rather like Anri (she was of the chicks I cheat on my wives with on my Carnage Marauder), Vette is one of my wives (there use to be a glitch in the SW storyline that allowed you to marry both Jaesa and Vette if you did the romances in a specific way and I've got letters from both of them referring to my character as their husband) and I'm rather fond of Lana, she's the chick I was cheating on both my wives with during the Eternal Whateverthehell crap story line.

But hey, there's no accounting for taste right?

Some people actually didn't kill Theron and Arcann and romance them. Two of the most begging to get their asses lite up of all the companions right along side Malavai Quinn.

Dead. Dead. Dead. 

I only regret I could only kill them once. 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[KyraMalakai]

3 hours ago, fabsus said:

i think one of the problems is that they have a very selective perception and only listen to the voices that cheer them. as you can see on twitter, they cheer themselves for their performance.

This, they keep patting themselves on the back like it was a great acomplishment but the moment that players (that actually live and play this stories, some for even longer that some of the devs are involved in the game) create a topic saying "Old Wounds, disappointing storyline!" guess what it gets deleted. They don't want such open critic to the headcanon that they envisioned (I imagine that if someone was to search "Old wounds" that would be one of the possible results and we can't have that).

You don't have choices anymore it's the exact same story to both sides, if you don't have some companions your story is even shorter. You used to have 8 stories then two then one then two and now back to one, and one size does not fit all, it barely fits between sith and jedi let alone non-force users, I guess you do it with your main force user and that's it if you main a tech you are going to have to come up with a giant fanfic to make it work.

The truth is for the most part you are just watching a movie and not a good one you are in the same place you were when 7.0 launched, Malgus the big bad is plotting something evil, the padawan has a dangerous holocron related to Darth Nul and the mandalorians are having a war. The only thing new so far was the story of who Nul was nothing more.

Edited June 20, 2023 by KyraMalakai
Wall of text

[OlBuzzard]

10 hours ago, TahliahCOH said:

Yay! I missed that (having not actually read the thread before posting), but I'll go find it now. As corny as it sounds, that's the only way to get back to our actual original storylines at this point. It was all a dream (really, a nightmare), and we all wake up back on our ships with our real comps and off on the next adventure. Heck, sith and jedi might go on to the post-original storylines as some kind of vision thing, but no way does that work for non-force users.

Every time my smuggler (or agent or bounty hunter or trooper) had to "mediatate," at this altar or that pile of bones, I just wanted to scream. Smugglers don't meditate at freaking altars, bounty hunters don't go on vision quests, and it's all completely bonkers.

Having a trooper or smuggler meditate (as odd as it may sound) still makes more sense than Malgus rising from the dead.   OK...maybe rising from the dead is a stretch.  (But not by much).  
** Who pasted his butt back together??  Hidden nano-tech?? 
** Soooo what happens when (whomever it was) returns and is expecting to get their cut when Malgus is done?
** Who said that (Malgus assembly team) isn't already watching everything unfold and just waiting for the right moment to step in and burn everything to the ground?

Hmmm  Some options ...RIGHT?   Either everything gets burned to a golden crisp ...OR ..  it's just been a dream!  A REALLY BAD dream!

(I wonder if I get to keep all of the credits I've accumulated in this dream)

🤣

[LD_Little_Dragon]

6 hours ago, KyraMalakai said:

 

The truth is for the most part you are just watching a movie and not a good one

This sums up my feeling about the story starting with kotfe/et and still going on.  I don't play video games to watch some movie about a bunch of NPCs.  

Bioware's writing post SoR is terrible, they don't even come up with half-assed reasons why eveyone seems to know about what happens in cutscenes that don't involve the PC or any of the allied NPCs.

[TX_Angel]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:51 AM, jedimasterjac said:

I’ve been thinking about the game’s narrative arc and I’m just… really at a loss. There’s no thrust, no momentum. We bounce around to these random locations while accomplishing very little of note.

Dunno. I’ve loved this game as a platform and I’ve spent 11 years of my life playing this. I’ve made great friends and I’ve made awesome stories doing my own RP with small communities, but… man. It just feels so hollow. 

Knights of the Eternal Throne, or 5.0, was the last real expansion of the game in 2016, the rest has been maintenance mode.

I've been saying this for 7 years, mostly to get back "you're crazy, they released 30 minutes of story last year!"

[OlBuzzard]

10 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

It's kinda funny because I rather like Anri (she was of the chicks I cheat on my wives with on my Carnage Marauder), Vette is one of my wives (there use to be a glitch in the SW storyline that allowed you to marry both Jaesa and Vette if you did the romances in a specific way and I've got letters from both of them referring to my character as their husband) and I'm rather fond of Lana, she's the chick I was cheating on both my wives with during the Eternal Whateverthehell crap story line.

But hey, there's no accounting for taste right?

Some people actually didn't kill Theron and Arcann and romance them. Two of the most begging to get their asses lite up of all the companions right along side Malavai Quinn.

Dead. Dead. Dead. 

I only regret I could only kill them once. 

 

I would have preferred to watch Guss Tuno going out that air lock over Bask!  (But that's just me)

[TahliahCOH]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:13 AM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Some people actually didn't kill Theron and Arcann and romance them. Two of the most begging to get their asses lite up of all the companions right along side Malavai Quinn.

I am still and will forever be perturbed that the SW can't toss Quinn out an airlock for his treachery in the main story. That whole thing makes no sense at all. Every one of my SWs would toss him out an airlock a thousand times or out of a thousand airlocks (at least) once.

Killing Arcann (who does deserve it) kind of mucks up the story, not that the story makes any sense anyway, so so what? My favorite in this vein was when I had killed Arcann (and Senya and pretty much everyone I could) and was stuck with Theron. He had no blaster, so he was literally running up to baddies and punching them. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, and I was kind of delighted. I laughed and laughed as he punched this knight and that to pretty much no effect. Completely bizarre, but I ended up saving Arcann on the next toon I ran through, I figured that whole Theron punching stuff would get old. 😛

[KyraMalakai]

7 minutes ago, TahliahCOH said:

I am still and will forever be perturbed that the SW can't toss Quinn out an airlock for his treachery in the main story.

This so much, the lightsaber to the gut later on was not enough.

9 minutes ago, TahliahCOH said:

was stuck with Theron. He had no blaster, so he was literally running up to baddies and punching them. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen

I laughed my a** off with that one but it was fitting he is like that, "no blaster, no problem, I am the super spy"

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

5 hours ago, TahliahCOH said:

I am still and will forever be perturbed that the SW can't toss Quinn out an airlock for his treachery in the main story. That whole thing makes no sense at all. Every one of my SWs would toss him out an airlock a thousand times or out of a thousand airlocks (at least) once.

Agreed! Makes absolutely no sense at all. You betray a Sith Lord like that, you're a dead man the second he (or she) gets you in their sights.

Edited June 22, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Shayddow]

I think the specific problem with story is that they have tried to make it "one size fits all".

I enjoyed the Ruhnik expansion specifically on my female LS Bounty Hunter that romanced Torian because I DID get to see some specific dialogue with a non-Theron, non-Lana Love interest. I liked the Darvannis chapter in KOTFE/KOTET as well with this character. She is also pro-Shae.

I think things would have been better if some of the chapters in KOTFE/KOTET would have been class specific.  For instance the chapter with Aric Jorgan worked very well for my Trooper toon (again, a companion that toon had romanced. But other toons running thru the story was just meh.

Some of the chapters made zero sense for non-force users : i.e. the chapter where force-users construct a new lightsaber - (and non-force-users make a new gun/rifle/ etc.) and even Echos of Oblivion was very force-centric.  

Again tho, it is mushed together and all of our characters do ALL chapters, all the story, instead of it being more specific.

For my LS agent, the saboteur option makes perfect sense. Because his whole story has been there from the beginning. It is a continuation of what happened in his class story in vanilla.

For others - not so much.

As far as Malgus & valkorian/vitiate/tenebrae is concerned - Hylo said it best "I miss when dead people stayed dead". Even tho when I played years ago I agreed with those who at the time wanted to have an option where they could have sided with Malgus on Ilum. Ossus was great for those with that preference - (empire side) - only to end up having him go "off the leash" - again.

 

 

[DarthCasus]

10 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Agreed! Makes absolutely no sense at all. You betray a Sith Lord like that, you're a dead man the second he (or she) gets you in their sights.

Breaking News! Imperial acts like an Imperial, more at 10! Quinn, for all the hate he gets, played the part perfectly and I think most people who haven't gotten over this part of the story just can't deal with not having total agency in this situation. Truth is, as we've seen in the story, you do anything to slight a Sith Lord in the least, you're dead. Much easier to headcanon the LS warrior having a respect for Quinn being a respectable player of the Imperial politic game and made submissive again, and the DS warrior needing time to identify a far more suitable punishment than some boring slashing animation striking down someone who could potentially also be your SO. 

Like really people, get over it. The whole having a vendetta against characters thing also played a part in Bioware's continued lowering of quality story-telling because killing off undesired companions became an emotional crutch for moments in the story, even in cases where it made absolutely no sense (Theron anyone?) Scour the entire interwebs and someone, PLEASE, point me to any thread anywhere that asked for anything resembling the dumpster fire that was Nathema's ending. Needed a weighty ending to a storyline that was necessary to knock the Alliance back down a peg? Throw in a half-assed reveal, make the friendly spy killable, hell make everyone killable, and lose Koth's your ship. What an abysmal insult.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

13 hours ago, DarthCasus said:

Breaking News! Imperial acts like an Imperial, more at 10! Quinn, for all the hate he gets, played the part perfectly and I think most people who haven't gotten over this part of the story just can't deal with not having total agency in this situation.

And Sith Lords act like Sith Lords. - And I am only talking about Sith and Darksiders.

Hencely why Quinn, Theron, and Koth all deserved to get their asses lite up by them.

Otherwise its - (and sorry for the length, it got away from me! 😀)

Quinn

"Ohh you helped my enemy try and get rid of me? No problem, you're just being an Imperial."

As an Imperial, Quinn was fully aware of the consequences if his plan to help the character's enemy failed. He was quite familiar with how Sith view things, and how they respond to people that betray them, or even just people they perceive as failing at their duty. Quinn swore an oath loyalty to the character and an Imperial Officer should understand they importance of loyalty and their duty to their direct commanding officer. He broke his oath.

Court martial of  members of the military for acts of cowardice ,disobeying orders, or lending aid to the enemy during a time of war has resulted in executions by firing squad in all military's throughout the history of mankind. The last such execution in the American military took place as recently as 1961.

I very much enjoying Force Choking Quinn to death. Something I was looking forward to since the end of the vanilla story line.

13 hours ago, DarthCasus said:

Like really people, get over it. The whole having a vendetta against characters thing also played a part in Bioware's continued lowering of quality story-telling because killing off undesired companions became an emotional crutch for moments in the story, even in cases where it made absolutely no sense (Theron anyone?)

Theron

Killing Theron made perfect sense for a Sith/Dark Sider and he definitely deserved a kill option.  Otherwise it's -

"Ohh, you just trapped me and Lana on a runway train, tried to shoot me in my face but I ducked at the last split second, blowing out the window that was behind where my face was, shot Lana and if on trying to escape the train me or Lana slipped, fell, hesitated for a half a second, got out cloths caught on something, or for any reason whatsoever we were delayed by even one second, we both definitely would have died, and we could have died merely jumping from the train, and to say nothing of all the innocent people on that train that you murdered, all to convince someone else you could be trusted? No problem. "

If Theron didn't think any of that would be an issue and that it would be fine to do that to a Sith/Darksider, well than that just shows how dangerous stupidity can be.

13 hours ago, DarthCasus said:

Scour the entire interwebs and someone, PLEASE, point me to any thread anywhere that asked for anything resembling the dumpster fire that was Nathema's ending.

I do agree with you regarding the ending of Nathema, that was inappropriate. They didn't actually let the player directly kill him. Force Choke would have been a more appropriate ending for a Sith.

..

13 hours ago, DarthCasus said:

and lose Koth's your ship.

Koth

"Ohh, you stole my ship that I absolutely needed as it was the only ship in the galaxy that could stand a chance against the Eternal Fleet and would compromise the entire struggle against the Eternal Empire all because I killed my enemies, who were the aggressors, and there was some collateral damage done during a War that took the lives of some non-combatants (as happens in every single war ever, as Wars tend to kill people.), and, you betrayed me and the Alliance which could have changed the entire course of the war. No problem, shzt happens."

 

13 hours ago, DarthCasus said:

and the DS warrior needing time to identify a far more suitable punishment than some boring slashing animation striking down someone who could potentially also be your SO.

To a Sith/Dark Sider , there is no more suitable punishment.

..

Sith/Darksiders are not nice people. They don't let people betray them and live. They're not forgiving, they're not empathetic, and they don't value any other lives other than their own and those that are useful to them or they feel they need for some important reason. They are selfish and they are greedy and they only thing they respect is power.

And to avoid any confusion, when I say Sith, I'm not talking about the race that exists in the SWTOR universe or about 'Light-Side Sith', which is a contradiction in terms as if they're on the Lightside, than they're not Sith at all.

Anyone who has played the Sith Warrior origin story line knows what the Sith do to members of their Order that have gone to the Light Side. They are killed out of hand, and they don't even bother to try and 'bring them back to the Dark Side' first. Because if they did go to the Light Side than they have already proven that they are weak and the Sith only respect the strong.

That said, I have no issue with people having the option of not killing them, people have the right to have a different opinion, but I feel that is a 2 way street. The option to kill them is just as valid as the option not to kill them.

It's not a Role-playing game if there are no choices to be made. Than it's just a story being told.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[JakRoanin]

I approach it with the Legacy System. In KOTFE and KOTET each PC does what makes sense for their part. JK/SW kind of split the duty as OUTLANDER (woo haa) SW confronts Arcann on Assylum. Gets stabby-stabbed. JK becomes "nominal Commander" Agents do the spying on Lana. Troopers do the soldier stuff. BH does her Mando thing and provides backup muscle. JC runs the Force Enclave with Sana-Rae, and deals with Vaylin, my Smugglers did not go into Wild Space but they run cargo for the Alliance and run contraband for the rest of the galaxy. 

[Bigfallenstar]

On 6/21/2023 at 7:03 PM, TahliahCOH said:

I am still and will forever be perturbed that the SW can't toss Quinn out an airlock for his treachery in the main story. That whole thing makes no sense at all. Every one of my SWs would toss him out an airlock a thousand times or out of a thousand airlocks (at least) once.

Killing Arcann (who does deserve it) kind of mucks up the story, not that the story makes any sense anyway, so so what? My favorite in this vein was when I had killed Arcann (and Senya and pretty much everyone I could) and was stuck with Theron. He had no blaster, so he was literally running up to baddies and punching them. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, and I was kind of delighted. I laughed and laughed as he punched this knight and that to pretty much no effect. Completely bizarre, but I ended up saving Arcann on the next toon I ran through, I figured that whole Theron punching stuff would get old. 😛

You're a violent little thing, aren't ya?

[Goreshaga]

5 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

And Sith Lords act like Sith Lords. - And I am only talking about Sith and Darksiders.

Hencely why Quinn, Theron, and Koth all deserved to get their asses lite up by them.

Otherwise its - (and sorry for the length, it got away from me! 😀)

Quinn

"Ohh you helped my enemy try and get rid of me? No problem, you're just being an Imperial."

As an Imperial, Quinn was fully aware of the consequences if his plan to help the character's enemy failed. He was quite familiar with how Sith view things, and how they respond to people that betray them, or even just people they perceive as failing at their duty. Quinn swore an oath loyalty to the character and an Imperial Officer should understand they importance of loyalty and their duty to their direct commanding officer. He broke his oath.

Court martial of  members of the military for acts of cowardice ,disobeying orders, or lending aid to the enemy during a time of war has resulted in executions by firing squad in all military's throughout the history of mankind. The last such execution in the American military took place as recently as 1961.

I very much enjoying Force Choking Quinn to death. Something I was looking forward to since the end of the vanilla story line.

Theron

Killing Theron made perfect sense for a Sith/Dark Sider and he definitely deserved a kill option.  Otherwise it's -

"Ohh, you just trapped me and Lana on a runway train, tried to shoot me in my face but I ducked at the last split second, blowing out the window that was behind where my face was, shot Lana and if on trying to escape the train me or Lana slipped, fell, hesitated for a half a second, got out cloths caught on something, or for any reason whatsoever we were delayed by even one second, we both definitely would have died, and we could have died merely jumping from the train, and to say nothing of all the innocent people on that train that you murdered, all to convince someone else you could be trusted? No problem. "

If Theron didn't think any of that would be an issue and that it would be fine to do that to a Sith/Darksider, well than that just shows how dangerous stupidity can be.

I do agree with you regarding the ending of Nathema, that was inappropriate. They didn't actually let the player directly kill him. Force Choke would have been a more appropriate ending for a Sith.

..

Koth

"Ohh, you stole my ship that I absolutely needed as it was the only ship in the galaxy that could stand a chance against the Eternal Fleet and would compromise the entire struggle against the Eternal Empire all because I killed my enemies, who were the aggressors, and there was some collateral damage done during a War that took the lives of some non-combatants (as happens in every single war ever, as Wars tend to kill people.), and, you betrayed me and the Alliance which could have changed the entire course of the war. No problem, shzt happens."

 

To a Sith/Dark Sider , there is no more suitable punishment.

..

Sith/Darksiders are not nice people. They don't let people betray them and live. They're not forgiving, they're not empathetic, and they don't value any other lives other than their own and those that are useful to them or they feel they need for some important reason. They are selfish and they are greedy and they only thing they respect is power.

And to avoid any confusion, when I say Sith, I'm not talking about the race that exists in the SWTOR universe or about 'Light-Side Sith', which is a contradiction in terms as if they're on the Lightside, than they're not Sith at all.

Anyone who has played the Sith Warrior origin story line knows what the Sith do to members of their Order that have gone to the Light Side. They are killed out of hand, and they don't even bother to try and 'bring them back to the Dark Side' first. Because if they did go to the Light Side than they have already proven that they are weak and the Sith only respect the strong.

That said, I have no issue with people having the option of not killing them, people have the right to have a different opinion, but I feel that is a 2 way street. The option to kill them is just as valid as the option not to kill them.

It's not a Role-playing game if there are no choices to be made. Than it's just a story being told.

 

It's funny how civilians on Zakuul who never did anything against you somehow deserved to be blown up for simply living on the wrong planet, but the people on the train on Umbara who were transporting cristals that were going to be used against you, were very much helping your enemies and were actively trying to kill you before the train crashed somehow became innocent bystanders...

Also, Theron's cybernetics have some kind of auto aim to them, he can lock a target to not miss even when he doesn't see said target directly after locking them in, so the target was definitely the window and not your face, he gave you everything you needed to get out of that train. He's also killed two Dark Councilors in situations that were far less favorable for him than the situation on the train, so if he really wanted you dead, you'd be dead. In fact, if he really wanted you dead, all he had to do was do nothing and let the Order of Zildrog blow you up with Odessen. That kill option would've been justified if he effectiveley betrayed the PC (which in case of a really DS PC would've been more than justified and pretty much should've been the case), but as is, that option is just stupid and exists only to satify people who already didn't like him and wanted to get rid of him, yet for some reason we're never given any opportunity to remove Lana from our game if we want to, even though she's pretty consistantly lying to everybody around her, PC included.

Regarding Quinn, he was screwed either way. Either he disobeyed Baras and would've been given a slow painful death, or he executed his plan and would probably have been killed at some point anyways like everyone working for Baras once they served their purpose, or he would've been killed by the Wrath if he failed. In the end, it's pretty clear he chose suicide by Wrath, which had a chance to get him a quick death. That being said, he should've been killable right after the fact, not a decade later, after he spent years in prison for refusing to stop trying to find the Wrath (which none of their other companions did btw, but if i'm not mistaken, except for Pierce and LS Jaesa, they can all die).

Edited June 23, 2023 by Goreshaga