People are not happy

[jedimasterjac]

8 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

you are banned

can we take a step back to once again acknowledge that these were 30 minute chat time outs on twitch?

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, jedimasterjac said:

can we take a step back to once again acknowledge that these were 30 minute chat time outs on twitch?

Most were timed out, some were also banned. Like this screen another used shared

https://imgur.com/a/j9fiLZv

[Malornaros]

Beyond all that is mentioned, its clear that the game is out of breath. The live didn't have much really interesting (and was a disaster visually.. a simple powerpoint presentation).

Since KotFE, the population of the game keeps decreasing and its almost obvious that the budget allocated to SWTOR decreases at the same time. Its probably the MMO benefiting from the least investment and yet Disney and Lucasgames would have ample means to remedy this and transform it into a magnificent showcase for their future projects.

Right now I'm just wondering when the end of development of new content on SWTOR will be announced. When you compare it to other MMOs like TESO, released only 3 years later, the difference is so striking...

Unfortunately the community is no longer listened to and the developers sink into ideas that go around in circles, without originality and of which we see stages once every 6 or 7 months for 30 minutes of content.

It's sad, the mere name of Star Wars was good enough, if the development was efficient enough, your MMO would have outclassed 90% of the others in terms of players.

[jedimasterjac]

9 minutes ago, Malornaros said:

The live didn't have much really interesting (and was a disaster visually.. a simple powerpoint presentation).

When were the livestreams different? Like, have you... actually watched the past ones? They've been formatted like this for years.

10 minutes ago, Malornaros said:

Right now I'm just wondering when the end of development of new content on SWTOR will be announced

I don't disagree that something is clearly wrong when it comes to investment, cadence of content being released, etc. At the same time, they just moved the client to 64-bit, have been redoing most aspects of the game's UI, and are working on migrating their servers to AWS and opening an AWS APAC server. That... doesn't really happen if an end to development is eminent. They're clearly making long-term technical investments into the game's longevity, even if that's not showing in terms of content released.

12 minutes ago, Malornaros said:

Unfortunately the community is no longer listened to and the developers sink into ideas that go around in circles

Are you new around here? When was this different?

[xxSHOONYxx]

24 minutes ago, Malornaros said:

Beyond all that is mentioned, its clear that the game is out of breath. The live didn't have much really interesting (and was a disaster visually.. a simple powerpoint presentation).

Since KotFE, the population of the game keeps decreasing and its almost obvious that the budget allocated to SWTOR decreases at the same time. Its probably the MMO benefiting from the least investment and yet Disney and Lucasgames would have ample means to remedy this and transform it into a magnificent showcase for their future projects.

Right now I'm just wondering when the end of development of new content on SWTOR will be announced. When you compare it to other MMOs like TESO, released only 3 years later, the difference is so striking...

Unfortunately the community is no longer listened to and the developers sink into ideas that go around in circles, without originality and of which we see stages once every 6 or 7 months for 30 minutes of content.

It's sad, the mere name of Star Wars was good enough, if the development was efficient enough, your MMO would have outclassed 90% of the others in terms of players.

Don't think this is a disney issue, this is EA and bioware. There is a reason why now any company can do star wars game and the license is not exclusive to EA anymore. They s*** on it and let it go to waste.

All they have to show for it under their exclusive license is a godawful, some sims xpacs, dice's battlefront 1 and 2 with godawful monetization and pushing awful gameplay so you would spend money, a mobile $$ game that has more development and spotlight than this game, fallen order which was the best they have released and jedi sruvivor which is an unoptimized mess giving the middle finger to their consumers and this game. EA is just s*** and it ruined the old Bioware.

Squere Enix invtested and relaunched their own game to make it good, making it one of the most popular mmos right now, a company that by google numbers has a 6b market cap, while ea has 38b market cap. While EA works with an ip that dwarfs the ip of FF. EA just doesn't care, they want extremely minimum effort for max profit

Edited May 4, 2023 by xxSHOONYxx

[Prapcaster]

4 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

Glad we got the official gaming industry ruling on what counts as content.

/s

If it counted s actual content they wouldn't be getting dragged on the forums, reddit and twitch by 90% of the people. They need to be adding content that actually poses a challenge and has real obstacles. Not things that can be completed in one day. If it was alright people wou;d've been fine with the malgus story at the 7.0 launch.

[Char_Ell]

20 minutes ago, Malornaros said:

Right now I'm just wondering when the end of development of new content on SWTOR will be announced. When you compare it to other MMOs like TESO, released only 3 years later, the difference is so striking...

Many people have been wondering about and/or predicting the demise of SWTOR since 2012.  Nothing new here as 10+ years later it's a rather large crowd.

It is unfortunate that, to my knowledge, BioWare has said nothing about R-4 Anomaly Master Mode missing its "early 2022" release time frame.  At this point my guess is BioWare just doesn't want to come out and say that the R-4 operation won't be getting a master mode after all.  I watched the stream yesterday but I generally ignore the chat because I'm paying attention to the stream itself and Twich chat tends to have a fair amount of what I would consider to be spam.  I've found the drama regarding censoring of R-4 MM questions eyebrow raising.   My impression is the people that were asking about R-4 MM in chat were tolerated at first but then whoever was monitoring and moderating the stream's chat decided they were taking up too much chat bandwidth and started to ban.  I get some of these people are passionate and BioWare's efforts to block R-4 MM inquiries in chat resulted in their "fighting back" against the censorship.  Since I'm not invested in MM ops it's not a big deal to me but I understand it's a big deal to players that are passionate about high difficulty operations.  I just look at BioWare's actions as well as words (or lack thereof) and this is what I see.

• Ranked PvP removal
• BioWare will no longer develop 16 player operations
• Still no master mode for R-4 Anomaly
• significant nerfing of veteran flashpoints and story mode operations in 7.0

My interpretation of these actions: BioWare is moving more focus to support of SWTOR's "casual player" segment and less support for "hard core" player segment. 

Sure, one can express outrage over BioWare's failure to add announced R-4 master mode more than a year after 7.0 launch.  I just feel that if one considers the broad view of the changes BioWare has made in 7.0 it seems pretty clear that BioWare is moving in a direction that most "hard core" players will not appreciate.  Fight against it all you want but BioWare didn't bow to pressure for ranked PvP and I expect they're not going to bow to pressure from operations players either.

[xxSHOONYxx]

14 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

Many people have been wondering about and/or predicting the demise of SWTOR since 2012.  Nothing new here as 10+ years later it's a rather large crowd.

It is unfortunate that, to my knowledge, BioWare has said nothing about R-4 Anomaly Master Mode missing its "early 2022" release time frame.  At this point my guess is BioWare just doesn't want to come out and say that the R-4 operation won't be getting a master mode after all.  I watched the stream yesterday but I generally ignore the chat because I'm paying attention to the stream itself and Twich chat tends to have a fair amount of what I would consider to be spam.  I've found the drama regarding censoring of R-4 MM questions eyebrow raising.   My impression is the people that were asking about R-4 MM in chat were tolerated at first but then whoever was monitoring and moderating the stream's chat decided they were taking up too much chat bandwidth and started to ban.  I get some of these people are passionate and BioWare's efforts to block R-4 MM inquiries in chat resulted in their "fighting back" against the censorship.  Since I'm not invested in MM ops it's not a big deal to me but I understand it's a big deal to players that are passionate about high difficulty operations.  I just look at BioWare's actions as well as words (or lack thereof) and this is what I see.

• Ranked PvP removal
• BioWare will no longer develop 16 player operations
• Still no master mode for R-4 Anomaly
• significant nerfing of veteran flashpoints and story mode operations in 7.0

My interpretation of these actions: BioWare is moving more focus to support of SWTOR's "casual player" segment and less support for "hard core" player segment. 

Sure, one can express outrage over BioWare's failure to add announced R-4 master mode more than a year after 7.0 launch.  I just feel that if one considers the broad view of the changes BioWare has made in 7.0 it seems pretty clear that BioWare is moving in a direction that most "hard core" players will not appreciate.  Fight against it all you want but BioWare didn't bow to pressure for ranked PvP and I expect they're not going to bow to pressure from operations players either.

It's way beyond of what people like or don't like. You might not care about r4 nim, but they might promise and announce something you like, and when you ask about it years after when it never come on you are met with timeout bans and silence. This is far beyond an issue of "hard core players" and should be an issue of the entire player base, because the next promise they break and then silence will be something you like

[Malornaros]

1 hour ago, jedimasterjac said:

When were the livestreams different? Like, have you... actually watched the past ones? They've been formatted like this for years.

Telling me that all streams have been like this for years does not really contradict my point. I haven't watched all the previous streams, but each time it's a level of realization close to that of a small independent group, not of a company the size of Bioware.

I loved SWTOR at one time for having managed my own guilds and communities there. I still really enjoy playing it on old content and I have great memories of it. Yeah there was a time when it felt like the developers were listening to player feedback a bit. It wasn't always easy but we got that impression. Do they still look at the threads on this forum they created themselves back in the day for suggestions whether it's about classes, gameplay, or the Cartel Market?

As for technical in-game additions I agree. What's being done on the launcher level UI improvements tends to make one think they're trying to modernize SWTOR and therefore the game isn't close to be abandoned. Unfortunately as you say the content offered as a whole is absolutely not the reflection of a healthy MMO and tends to make believe the opposite. Overall, it gives me the feeling of a game under life support to give the illusion that he is fine...

I don't think we can today say that SWTOR is the Star Wars MMO that players who still play it deserve.

 

34 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

Many people have been wondering about and/or predicting the demise of SWTOR since 2012.  Nothing new here as 10+ years later it's a rather large crowd.

I'd like to specify that I dont want the end of SWTOR, on the contrary I'd really like to take back a real pleasure in discovering new content for this game! I myself have long defended the game against those who called it "dead".

I'm not a high-level PvE player, just a Star Wars lover who is disappointed to see his favorite MMO go down like this for years. If this loss of interest was related to the breathlessness of the MMO style I'd not say much, but currently it is unfortunately related to the catastrophic management of EA and Bioware.

[Char_Ell]

8 minutes ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

It's way beyond of what people like or don't like. You might not care about r4 nim, but they might promise and announce something you like, and when you ask about it years after when it never come on you are met with timeout bans and silence. This is far beyond an issue of "hard core players" and should be an issue of the entire player base, because the next promise they break and then silence will be something you like

I expect you don't like to be told that you're experiencing what is often referred to as an "emotional overreaction."  I have these myself sometimes.  Last time for me where SWTOR was concerned was when BioWare pushed back the announced release date for 7.0 from mid December 2021 to mid February 2022.  I had renewed my subscription with the expectation that LoTS would release in December because in November 2021 BioWare had committed to an actual release date in December.  Then three weeks later after the 7.0 announcement BioWare decided they couldn't make the December date and pushed the 7.0 release to February 2022.  I let my subscription lapse in January and didn't renew again for 4 months, well past the 7.0 launch date.  I didn't appreciate the bait-and-switch and I made sure BioWare lost more subscription revenue from me than they got from changing 7.0 launch date with such short notice.  You know the adage "actions speak louder than words" right?  Where SWTOR is concerned players have two impactful choices to make: 1) to play or not play SWTOR and 2) to pay or not pay to play SWTOR.  I have spoken.

[Prapcaster]

11 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

I expect you don't like to be told that you're experiencing what is often referred to as an "emotional overreaction."  I have these myself sometimes.  Last time for me where SWTOR was concerned was when BioWare pushed back the announced release date for 7.0 from mid December 2021 to mid February 2022.  I had renewed my subscription with the expectation that LoTS would release in December because in November 2021 BioWare had committed to an actual release date in December.  Then three weeks later after the 7.0 announcement BioWare decided they couldn't make the December date and pushed the 7.0 release to February 2022.  I let my subscription lapse in January and didn't renew again for 4 months, well past the 7.0 launch date.  I didn't appreciate the bait-and-switch and I made sure BioWare lost more subscription revenue from me than they got from changing 7.0 launch date with such short notice.  You know the adage "actions speak louder than words" right?  Where SWTOR is concerned players have two impactful choices to make: 1) to play or not play SWTOR and 2) to pay or not pay to play SWTOR.  I have spoken.

You're right. And swtor has lost Most of it's raiding community which before 7.0 was the largest contributer to subscriptions. The ranked community which I would say was a little under 5% of the games population have all left to the blizzard game with maybe 5 ranked players remaining game wide. All that's left are the bare minimum of casuals who just play because it's star wars. And let's be real most casuals have a very goldfish type brain for gaming. How long do you realisticly think they'll remain in swtor once the stories dry up? Especially with new star wars games and ashes of creation right around the corner.

[jedimasterjac]

10 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

And swtor has lost Most of it's raiding community which before 7.0 was the largest contributer to subscriptions.

This is a huge claim. What evidence do you have for that?

[Prapcaster]

21 minutes ago, jedimasterjac said:

This is a huge claim. What evidence do you have for that?

Easily done just look at the steam numbers before the R4 issues. According to polls and reports from EA, steam is the most widely used launcher amoung players. August 2021 steam was clearing 21k+ daily users ,less then a  year later when 7.0 was announced during July 2021 there was only 10k daily users because people were disgruntled that the operation was delayed even further past the 7.0 launch delay. Fast forward to February 2022 when 7.0 and obviously there was an increase for when people came back to check it out and it was at 19k daily. 6 months later it had dropped to an all time low of 6k daily users and didn't get back up to 10k until last month. Like I said casual players are like goldfish.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Prapcaster

[jedimasterjac]

1 minute ago, Prapcaster said:

Easily done just look at the steam numbers before the R4 issues.

Steam numbers don't reflect active subscriptions or active player count.

1 minute ago, Prapcaster said:

reports from EA, steam is the most widely used launcher amoung players.

Most widely used for SWTOR? Where's that report?

2 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

because people were disgruntled that the operation was delayed even further past the 7.0 launch delay.

Why do you believe this is the reason why players dropped? The playerbase was more or less stabilized from April 2021 - December 22. I'm really struggling to tell if you're being disingenuous here or if you just can't read data.

4 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

ast forward to February 2022 when 7.0 and obviously there was an increase for when people came back to check it out and it was at 19k daily. 6 months later it had dropped to an all time low of 6k daily users and didn't get back up to 10k until last month.

These playerbase fluctuations have literally nothing to do with R4, though.

[Prapcaster]

1 minute ago, jedimasterjac said:

Steam numbers don't reflect active subscriptions or active player count.

Most widely used for SWTOR? Where's that report?

Why do you believe this is the reason why players dropped? The playerbase was more or less stabilized from April 2021 - December 22. I'm really struggling to tell if you're being disingenuous here or if you just can't read data.

These playerbase fluctuations have literally nothing to do with R4, though.

Look man as much as I'd love to argue about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original most I'm at work. You can pick apart every single word I type instead of just doing a google search if You want but I'm already behind. You're clearly just the average fleet chatter that jsut runs hammer station. Have a good day.

[jedimasterjac]

1 minute ago, Prapcaster said:

Look man as much as I'd love to argue about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original most I'm at work.

This is the second time where you've made obviously baseless claims, I've asked you for any actual evidence, and you've just gone "Oh man oh gee oh boy, I'm just a little guy, I don't wanna argue."

Edited May 4, 2023 by jedimasterjac

[Prapcaster]

1 minute ago, jedimasterjac said:

This is the second time where you've made obviously baseless claims, I've asked you for any actual evidence, and you've just gone "Oh man oh gee oh boy, I'm just a little guy, I don't wanna argue."

Is everything okay at home?

[CrazyScruffy]

1 hour ago, Prapcaster said:

Easily done just look at the steam numbers before the R4 issues. According to polls and reports from EA, steam is the most widely used launcher amoung players. August 2021 steam was clearing 21k+ daily users ,less then a  year later when 7.0 was announced during July 2021 there was only 10k daily users because people were disgruntled that the operation was delayed even further past the 7.0 launch delay. Fast forward to February 2022 when 7.0 and obviously there was an increase for when people came back to check it out and it was at 19k daily. 6 months later it had dropped to an all time low of 6k daily users and didn't get back up to 10k until last month. Like I said casual players are like goldfish.

When steam first launched I would agree that many players switched over. But once Bioware updated their own launcher (and got rid of BitRaider) it was actually faster and I know many players stopped using Steam. So Steam does not give us the most accurate of calculations

Edited May 4, 2023 by CrazyScruffy

[xxSHOONYxx]

2 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

I expect you don't like to be told that you're experiencing what is often referred to as an "emotional overreaction."  I have these myself sometimes.  Last time for me where SWTOR was concerned was when BioWare pushed back the announced release date for 7.0 from mid December 2021 to mid February 2022.  I had renewed my subscription with the expectation that LoTS would release in December because in November 2021 BioWare had committed to an actual release date in December.  Then three weeks later after the 7.0 announcement BioWare decided they couldn't make the December date and pushed the 7.0 release to February 2022.  I let my subscription lapse in January and didn't renew again for 4 months, well past the 7.0 launch date.  I didn't appreciate the bait-and-switch and I made sure BioWare lost more subscription revenue from me than they got from changing 7.0 launch date with such short notice.  You know the adage "actions speak louder than words" right?  Where SWTOR is concerned players have two impactful choices to make: 1) to play or not play SWTOR and 2) to pay or not pay to play SWTOR.  I have spoken.

i'm well aware, i have been "playing" the game since the beginning. Left at the beginning of 4.0 when no group content was added and came back in 6.0 to play gods and dxun. I have no issue to simply just drop the subscription and go to a game that has actual endgame content. What i don't like is been taken as a fool, which i am at the end of the day for believing swtor devs, and empty promises. 
 

1 hour ago, jedimasterjac said:

This is a huge claim. What evidence do you have for that?

Bioware already took the same course of action as it appears to be doing now on only focusing on story for 4.0 and beginning of 5.0. 
From previously expansions releasing +2 ops plus lair bosses to just story, and then big story expansions, which after that the expansions they have released are very lack luster in any type of content and content lenght. 4.0 and 5.0 must have done a huge damage and probably kept breathing thanks to rpers and cartel market. 
It simply did not work because if it did all subsequent expansions would have been only story. They had to do a last death grasp and release gods on a 1 boss cadence instead of the full op at once, which to their recognition, ended releasing the best op the game has seen. They must have been BLEEDING sub count and active players for them to do those types of releases.
But the damage was already done in the 4.0 and most end game pve players quit.

Idk the percentage of people that play ops, i'd say is big if you count also people that do sm. But what i do know is the game focusing on just one part of the game won't survive because it already didn't. And it is literally the only thing that requieres subscription right now, outside of space barbie

[Nev_aria]

You can white wash it all that you want, but every decision made (and implemented) since 5.0 dropped has done nothing but hurt the game.   And those in charge of game management seem aware that they can do pretty much whatever they want; and enough people will continue to support the game...simply because it's Star Wars.