Sales Tax and Broker's fees

[Dayshadow]

A 3.5% tax should come out of any item sold on GTN right off the bat as a broker fee and be non-refundable, even if the sale expires. The other 4.5% would be the tax for successful sale. The 4.5% should also be taken if the order is cancelled prematurely. Exemptions can be made if the order is cancelled with an hour of posting. The Brokers fee can be refunded if sale is cancelled with 5 minutes of posting (people make mistakes). I'd also say the time an item can stay on the market should be increased to at least a month, with the ability to lower the price of an ongoing sale at a 0.5% charge. This way people might think twice about putting stuff up on the market at ridiculous prices because when they don't sell, they lose money. And most of these people know it's highly unlikely to sell, but their greed compels them to hold out hope some rich chump will buy. Currently there is no risk at all. You let it expire and it costs you nothing (in some cases even cancelling has no serious penalty). So why not put everything at a billion out the gate? If it unsurprisingly doesn't sell, oh well. It cost you nothing. But for the market as a whole it becomes this long process of prices slowly dropping back down to the "actual price" that people will buy. I'd prefer to get rid of that wait time every time the sales expire, and the next person decides to start over at 1 billion on items that couldn't sell at 10M the day before. It would also be nice to have market trends on items. At least an average sale price so people can get an idea of what price people are actually willing to buy it.

 

[LD_Little_Dragon]

4 hours ago, Dayshadow said:

A 3.5% tax should come out of any item sold on GTN right off the bat as a broker fee and be non-refundable, even if the sale expires.

 

Do you  have any idea how the cosmetic crafted item market works?  It doesn't matter what you price the item at, someone still has to want 'that particular look' before they buy it.

I have a 30 to 70 percent return rate on my cosmetic items, it varies a lot week to week, and that's without changing prices at all.

Your lovely idea wouldn't make me lower my prices, it would mean I never bother putting a crafted armor on the market again.

[Dayshadow]

2 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

Do you  have any idea how the cosmetic crafted item market works?  It doesn't matter what you price the item at, someone still has to want 'that particular look' before they buy it.

I have a 30 to 70 percent return rate on my cosmetic items, it varies a lot week to week, and that's without changing prices at all.

Your lovely idea wouldn't make me lower my prices, it would mean I never bother putting a crafted armor on the market again.

Cool. Then they can sell their items at 1B knowing it will sell. 

You misunderstand. Read what I posted carefully. This isn't about lower prices across the board for the sake of lowering prices. This is about things that DO NOT sell at high prices, being put up at high prices that ALWAYS go right back down to a low price. Due to insane greed and a delusional hope people continue posting sales at ridiculous prices they ultimately know won't sell in the slim hope some dope will buy it. Consumers then have the wait for the price to inevitably go back down to the "real price". But when the excess expires, and the first person puts the same item up for the first time the price is back up to a ridiculous price and the cycle continues. This is crappy situation for consumers. A big waste of time. I'm just putting an idea out there to end that cycle. This has nothing to do with lowering prices for items that actually have high demand and value in the market.

 

Edit: To your last sentence, people put stuff on the market for convenience. Not everyone is willing to spam Trade chat for hours like a street vendor trying to hawk wears. You would continue to sell items on the GTN if you already do because if taxes were such a detriment you wouldn't be willing to forgo the 8% already levied on GTN trades. What my idea aims to do is have people post sale prices that are realistic right out of the gate. If 1B is a realistic price those people will still fork over the same 8%. But time-wasting, obviously overpriced sales will cost people money as there will be a penalty for "dope fishing".

Edited March 18, 2023 by Dayshadow

[Darcmoon]

7 minutes ago, Dayshadow said:

Cool. Then they can sell their items at 1B knowing it will sell. 

You misunderstand. Read what I posted carefully. This isn't about lower prices across the board for the sake of lowering prices. This is about things that DO NOT sell at high prices, being put up at high prices that ALWAYS go right back down to a low price. Due to insane greed and a delusional hope people continue posting sales at ridiculous prices they ultimately know won't sell in the slim hope some dope will buy it. Consumers then have the wait for the price to inevitably go back down to the "real price". But when the excess expires, and the first person puts the same item up for the first time the price is back up to a ridiculous price and the cycle continues. This is crappy situation for consumers. A big waste of time. I'm just putting an idea out there to end that cycle. This has nothing to do with lowering prices for items that actually have high demand and value in the market.

Yet what you are suggesting would probably drive people to not post things on the GTN, especially if they don’t know what the ‘real price’ is.   It would probably send most of the sub 1B credit items to trade and fleet also. 

[Dayshadow]

6 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

Yet what you are suggesting would probably drive people to not post things on the GTN, especially if they don’t know what the ‘real price’ is.   It would probably send most of the sub 1B credit items to trade and fleet also. 

I posted an addendum to that reply you quote as you were likely typing your reply. 

They know because they are the same people could not sell an item at 10M and the very same people to come back and try to sell the next day and 1B. So they are fully aware that 1B is ridiculous. But there is no harm in this because there is no risk. And the people who don't know see that and just go along with it perhaps thinking that price is normal. They lose nothing for doing this. They will sell on the GTN or they will have to hawk items or sell to NPCs. No matter how you look at it, selling to a player on GTN will get them more than to NPCs. And sitting around for hours hawking in trade chat isn't everyone's cup of tea.

People will learn the "real price". It may cost them 0.5%, but with a 1 month time frame they'll get a read on things.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Dayshadow

[Darcmoon]

2 minutes ago, Dayshadow said:

I posted an addendum to that reply you quote as you were likely typing your reply. 

They will sell on the GTN or they will have to hawk items or sell to NPCs. No matter how you look at it, selling to a player on GTN will get them more than to NPCs. And sitting around for hours hawking in trade chat isn't everyone's cup of tea.

And yet if the item doesn’t sell the first time you put it up then it gets more and more expensive each time.   By the third time you put it up you have spent 10.5% of your asking cost just listing it.   And even putting it up at the ‘real price’ doesn’t mean it will sell the first or second time.   It just means that items people want to buy won’t be put on the GTN since the person either decides to hawk it, sell to an NPC, or just delete it.   It still removes a lot of items from the GTN and causes the ‘real price’ to go up since there are less available. 

[Dayshadow]

3 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

And yet if the item doesn’t sell the first time you put it up then it gets more and more expensive each time.   By the third time you put it up you have spent 10.5% of your asking cost just listing it.   And even putting it up at the ‘real price’ doesn’t mean it will sell the first or second time.   It just means that items people want to buy won’t be put on the GTN since the person either decides to hawk it, sell to an NPC, or just delete it.   It still removes a lot of items from the GTN and causes the ‘real price’ to go up since there are less available. 

Once again, I edit while you type replies.

If you can't figure it out in a month's time and 0.5% charge to lower a price is too expensive, you're only option is manual person-to-person trading. The GTN ain't for you. You're third time putting it up would be 2 MONTHS later. And that's if you never bother to change the price. So you'd have to be grossly incompetent to get to that point. I'm literally basing this on EVE Online's system which works just fine for 2 decades.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Dayshadow

[Darcmoon]

1 minute ago, Dayshadow said:

Once again, I edit while you type replies.

If you can't figure it out in a month's time and 0.5% charge to lower a price is too expensive, you're only option is manual person-to-person trading. The GTN ain't for you.

 

Then the GTN wouldn’t be for anyone and the whole thing would be pointless. Most people who don’t play the GTN don’t know the ‘real price’ and have no desire or inclination to spend that long trying to find that price.   Your suggestion would effectively make the GTN worthless for anyone to sell on.  

[DWho]

I think it could work with some modifications if the goal is to pull credits out of the game.

1) 3.5% is too high, maybe 1% or 0.5%

2) trading off GTN has to be stopped or it's a pointless exercise.

3) There should be a minimum sale price below which it doesn't apply so it's more like a luxury tax on very high priced items than a regressive tax.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

You overestimate the time/reward for crafting the cosmetic items.  It is NOT the best use of my time for credit gain and not why I craft the lower tier armors.  I craft things for fun and to keep the outfit options open for more than just cartel stuff for other players.  

If you tax me just for having a listing expire (and you can't anticipate someone undercutting you or just no one wanting it during that 3 day time period), then I will not sit in trade chat, I will not find some discord channel to hawk my items, I will not make them at all.  

 

[Dayshadow]

6 hours ago, DWho said:

I think it could work with some modifications if the goal is to pull credits out of the game.

1) 3.5% is too high, maybe 1% or 0.5%

2) trading off GTN has to be stopped or it's a pointless exercise.

3) There should be a minimum sale price below which it doesn't apply so it's more like a luxury tax on very high priced items than a regressive tax.

 

1.) I thought that was pretty low. Ultimately, the tax doesn't change. You're still paying the same 8%. Only those engaging in time wasting pricing shenanigans will get hit. People will need to face reality and have a whole month to set things straight and metrics to tell them what the actual selling prices of items are.

2.) The alternative is active item hawking in trade chat, which I have a hard time believing most people are willing to do for hours on end. Consider all the items on the GTN currently. That's never going to be sold via trade chat. Even if it hypothetically happened it would be an unended stream of text that no human being could keep up with. The GTN is a convenience. If not using it was so easy nobody would use it even now. but clearly people are using it with the 8% tax as is. And that 8% doesn't change in my proposal.

3.) That's cool. But remember, the lower the sale price the less and less that 3.5% is going to be. And again, you're only losing that 3.5% If you're price gauging and sale at unreasonable prices you KNOW are unreasonable. You'd have to go an entire month to lose that 3.5% to nothing.

[Dayshadow]

6 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

Then the GTN wouldn’t be for anyone and the whole thing would be pointless. Most people who don’t play the GTN don’t know the ‘real price’ and have no desire or inclination to spend that long trying to find that price.   Your suggestion would effectively make the GTN worthless for anyone to sell on.  

At this point you're just in opposition for the sake of opposition and not actually considering the proposition. The GTN will be useless, but you have never articulated why. You're just ignoring the details and acting like everyone will just be bleeding money when that is not the case. And I think you know it's not. By your logic, the GTN is already useless since there is already an 8% tax RIGHT NOW. That would not change at all under my proposal. You'd pay maybe 0.5% more as an initial learning curve during the period before the sales average metrics are available. You'd have an entire month to see what the real sale price is, which you are purposely ignoring. If you simply don't want any penalty for wasting consumers' time as you fumble around trying to find a dope to trick into buying overpriced low tier items just say so.

[Dayshadow]

4 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

You overestimate the time/reward for crafting the cosmetic items.  It is NOT the best use of my time for credit gain and not why I craft the lower tier armors.  I craft things for fun and to keep the outfit options open for more than just cartel stuff for other players.  

If you tax me just for having a listing expire (and you can't anticipate someone undercutting you or just no one wanting it during that 3 day time period), then I will not sit in trade chat, I will not find some discord channel to hawk my items, I will not make them at all.  

 

If you can't sell in a month, having access to pricing average data who's faulty is that? The system or you? 

Please explain exactly why you think you couldn't sell items within a month's time? EVE Online, which I base this on has 3 month maximum. Would you like that? You're acting like this is based on the current 3 day maximum. If you craft for fun and to give non-CM options, then you should have no issue selling at fair prices. In which case you will pay the same 8% you're ALREADY PAYING.

Please, read what I'm proposing carefully. You're reply tells me you didn't even bother to read it. So why are you even replying when you couldn't even be bothered to read what you're commenting against.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Dayshadow

[DeannaVoyager]

20 hours ago, Dayshadow said:

A 3.5% tax should come out of any item sold on GTN right off the bat as a broker fee and be non-refundable, even if the sale expires. The other 4.5% would be the tax for successful sale. The 4.5% should also be taken if the order is cancelled prematurely. Exemptions can be made if the order is cancelled with an hour of posting. The Brokers fee can be refunded if sale is cancelled with 5 minutes of posting (people make mistakes). I'd also say the time an item can stay on the market should be increased to at least a month, with the ability to lower the price of an ongoing sale at a 0.5% charge. This way people might think twice about putting stuff up on the market at ridiculous prices because when they don't sell, they lose money. And most of these people know it's highly unlikely to sell, but their greed compels them to hold out hope some rich chump will buy. Currently there is no risk at all. You let it expire and it costs you nothing (in some cases even cancelling has no serious penalty). So why not put everything at a billion out the gate? If it unsurprisingly doesn't sell, oh well. It cost you nothing. But for the market as a whole it becomes this long process of prices slowly dropping back down to the "actual price" that people will buy. I'd prefer to get rid of that wait time every time the sales expire, and the next person decides to start over at 1 billion on items that couldn't sell at 10M the day before. It would also be nice to have market trends on items. At least an average sale price so people can get an idea of what price people are actually willing to buy it.

 

 

Like others in this thread, I would also quit crafting items for GTN. I only craft a few items anyway, and they are not that expensive, so I wouldn't bother anymore. 

Your intention is stop people putting stuff on GTN for ridicilous prices. I agree with that, but I don't agree with the means. The only thing you need to do is make it either impossible or expensive enough to take the items out for relisting. If someone puts 3 days, they'll be in GTN for 3 days or until someone buys them. They could also add a timer on GTN items, like they have in CM items that would prevent people from relisting items they bought from GTN for a day or do. That wouldn't prevent people relisting their own expired items, but it would slow down the GTN players.

[SteveTheCynic]

23 hours ago, Dayshadow said:

A 3.5% tax should come out of any item sold on GTN right off the bat as a broker fee and be non-refundable, even if the sale expires.  (etc., snipped for brevity)

The problem is that your proposal, by itself, makes using the GTN punitive for *everyone*, and will drive even more people to use direct P2P trade, even for items whose natural price is low enough for the item to be posted on the GTN.  (To say nothing of the crafter-trader problem already mentioned, which might not be such a big problem on the scale of things.)

[Dayshadow]

6 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

Like others in this thread, I would also quit crafting items for GTN. I only craft a few items anyway, and they are not that expensive, so I wouldn't bother anymore. 

Your intention is stop people putting stuff on GTN for ridicilous prices. I agree with that, but I don't agree with the means. The only thing you need to do is make it either impossible or expensive enough to take the items out for relisting. If someone puts 3 days, they'll be in GTN for 3 days or until someone buys them. They could also add a timer on GTN items, like they have in CM items that would prevent people from relisting items they bought from GTN for a day or do. That wouldn't prevent people relisting their own expired items, but it would slow down the GTN players.

Why would you quit? Literally nothing would change for you compared to the current 8% tax. You'd still pay the same 8% you're paying RIGHT NOW. You people aren't making any sense to me.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in the second paragraph. I'm going to answer based on what I think you're trying to say. If they add a relist timer that makes items artificially MORE rare at a given time would it not keep prices artificially high, by creating a false supply shortage? Having more of an item available at any given time breeds competition and that's how the prices drop to their actual selling price quicker. This is why I'd prefer at least a month as the new max sale window.

 

[Dayshadow]

3 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

The problem is that your proposal, by itself, makes using the GTN punitive for *everyone*, and will drive even more people to use direct P2P trade, even for items whose natural price is low enough for the item to be posted on the GTN.  (To say nothing of the crafter-trader problem already mentioned, which might not be such a big problem on the scale of things.)

HOW is it punitive? Punitive to who? Price gaugers of low value items? That's the point.

The majority of players aren't using direct P2P trade. That is inconvenient and involves not playing the game for the most part. The only people who do this on a consistent basis are those super rich traders who get off on making credits. Those people barely play the game and sit in front of GTN terminals most of the day like they work at the stock market. Generally speaking, only high value items whose value exceeds the GTN maximum list price are sold P2P. Even if every did drop the GTN the trade chat would be an incomprehensible, useless, never-ending wall of text. This idea that everyone is going to spend all day shouting in trade chat is ridiculous. The GTN is an essential convenience. Currently people are paying 8% tax. Under my plan they would still pay the same 8% tax. So exactly how is 8% under my plan "punitive for EVERYONE", but the current 8% tax is not punitive for everyone??? Make anything you're saying make sense. Explain in detail, please.

No crafter trader issue has been mentioned. Seeing as no one has been able to explain why this would be an issue without blatantly ignoring the fact that the sales window would not be limited to 3 days. They are basically making strawman arguments.

[SteveTheCynic]

9 minutes ago, Dayshadow said:

Currently people are paying 8% tax. Under my plan they would still pay the same 8% tax. So exactly how is 8% under my plan "punitive for EVERYONE", but the current 8% tax is not punitive for everyone??? Make anything you're saying make sense. Explain in detail, please.

It's punitive because the person listing the item pays the 3.5% (a) immediately and (b) even if the listing fails because it was merely badly timed.  (Or because my keyboard bounced an extra zero that I didn't notice until too late, and I end up paying 35%(1) of my intended price just for the dubious honour of having listed it.)

(1) I intended a listing at 100K credits.  3.5% of that is 3.5K.  Unfortunately, my zero bounced (I pressed it five times, but one of those times made two zeroes), and I listed the item at a million instead.  3.5% of a million is 35K, and that is 35% of the price I wanted.

Alternative explanation: you are seeking to punish speculative listings by making the price of listing very high compared to today, *and* by making the price of listing non-refundable, but it's a blunt instrument, and hits everyone the same, even the ones who aren't making speculative listings.

9 minutes ago, Dayshadow said:

No crafter trader issue has been mentioned. Seeing as no one has been able to explain why this would be an issue without blatantly ignoring the fact that the sales window would not be limited to 3 days. They are basically making strawman arguments.

I'll just leave you with this:

17 hours ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

You overestimate the time/reward for crafting the cosmetic items.  It is NOT the best use of my time for credit gain and not why I craft the lower tier armors.  I craft things for fun and to keep the outfit options open for more than just cartel stuff for other players.  

If you tax me just for having a listing expire (and you can't anticipate someone undercutting you or just no one wanting it during that 3 day time period), then I will not sit in trade chat, I will not find some discord channel to hawk my items, I will not make them at all.  

 

and this:

6 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

Like others in this thread, I would also quit crafting items for GTN. I only craft a few items anyway, and they are not that expensive, so I wouldn't bother anymore. 

*That* crafter trader issue, the folks who put stuff they craft on the GTN to help out other players, and to keep the variety up for everyone, and wouldn't bother any more with such a change.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Dayshadow said:

Why would you quit? Literally nothing would change for you compared to the current 8% tax. You'd still pay the same 8% you're paying RIGHT NOW. You people aren't making any sense to me.

You really don't understand the crafter viewpoint.  Let's put this in really simple terms for you.

1 month ago the charged hypercloth armors were being listed  (and selling) for 5mil or more.  I started listing at 1 mil a piece.  Within 2 days the regular listers were undercutting my listings.

That means the regular listings are now sub 1 million.  I am not selling most of my listings, it's the undercutters selling.  If I remove my 1 mil listings then the price will go back up (the undercutters were the ones selling for 5 mil or more, do you think they'll keep the lower prices if they don't have to?  Answer: NO).

Even with a 1 month listing time, the undercutters would still exist.  Every listing I put up would cost me credits when they expire or if I remove them.  I would not list at all.  Do you think the undercutters would keep the lower prices?  Of course not.  With listers like me leaving the market it lowers supply, and  they will raise their prices again.

[Dayshadow]

42 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

You really don't understand the crafter viewpoint.  Let's put this in really simple terms for you.

1 month ago the charged hypercloth armors were being listed  (and selling) for 5mil or more.  I started listing at 1 mil a piece.  Within 2 days the regular listers were undercutting my listings.

That means the regular listings are now sub 1 million.  I am not selling most of my listings, it's the undercutters selling.  If I remove my 1 mil listings then the price will go back up (the undercutters were the ones selling for 5 mil or more, do you think they'll keep the lower prices if they don't have to?  Answer: NO).

Even with a 1 month listing time, the undercutters would still exist.  Every listing I put up would cost me credits when they expire or if I remove them.  I would not list at all.  Do you think the undercutters would keep the lower prices?  Of course not.  With listers like me leaving the market it lowers supply, and  they will raise their prices again.

Okay. And?

You could lose money (in your case a whole whooping 35K credits) if you go AN ENTIRE MONTH without being able to sell anything (highly unlikely). Or - now get this - Or you could pay the 0.5% and adjust your price (Would you suggest it be lowered to 0.1%?). And they would have to do the same or just wait their turn. But, hey, don't list. Give up on GTN sales. In your scenario there is so much product you aren't necessary anyway if there is such a flood of item availability that nobody would ever even get to your items in a month's time. Furthermore, if people are actually buying the items at 5M, then 5M is the "actual price". Again, I reiterate, my goal is not to lower prices for the sake of lowering prices. My goal is to get rid of the annoying price drop period where greedy people price things well over their market value, they don't sell and then all the sellers incrementally lower the price over the course of weeks until it's finally at the price we all know it should have started in the first place. People buy at the reasonable price and then when any leftovers expire (these ain't high demand items hence the low price) the first genius to relist starts it over at a ridiculous price. And all the other geniuses who literally couldn't sell at 5M the day follow suit thinking, "Let's see if it'll sell at 500M this time." And the consumer now has to wait another week or two for the prices to gradual drop back. But if an item actually sales regularly at 500M then it's no harm, no foul.

If I wanted to reduce prices, I'd suggest Bioware put price caps on items based on rarity rating (plat, gold, silver, bronze), item type (guns, armor, dye, etc.) and CM cost, effectively making it impossible to even sell an item for anything more than X amount. Non-CM non-crafted items would be based on level, type and drop rarity. Crafted items based on level and schematic rarity. That's just a rough draft, but I'm not suggesting that.

 

 

[Dayshadow]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

It's punitive because the person listing the item pays the 3.5% (a) immediately and (b) even if the listing fails because it was merely badly timed.  (Or because my keyboard bounced an extra zero that I didn't notice until too late, and I end up paying 35%(1) of my intended price just for the dubious honour of having listed it.)

(1) I intended a listing at 100K credits.  3.5% of that is 3.5K.  Unfortunately, my zero bounced (I pressed it five times, but one of those times made two zeroes), and I listed the item at a million instead.  3.5% of a million is 35K, and that is 35% of the price I wanted.

Alternative explanation: you are seeking to punish speculative listings by making the price of listing very high compared to today, *and* by making the price of listing non-refundable, but it's a blunt instrument, and hits everyone the same, even the ones who aren't making speculative listings.

I'll just leave you with this:

and this:

*That* crafter trader issue, the folks who put stuff they craft on the GTN to help out other players, and to keep the variety up for everyone, and wouldn't bother any more with such a change.

That's not punitive. That's the broker fee. The cost of doing business on the GTN. And I mentioned a grace period to account for mistakes, which you've ignored.

So again, effectively a strawman argument. You even cite another person's strawman who is talking about 3-day sales periods.

[DeannaVoyager]

3 hours ago, Dayshadow said:

Why would you quit? Literally nothing would change for you compared to the current 8% tax. You'd still pay the same 8% you're paying RIGHT NOW. You people aren't making any sense to me.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in the second paragraph. I'm going to answer based on what I think you're trying to say. If they add a relist timer that makes items artificially MORE rare at a given time would it not keep prices artificially high, by creating a false supply shortage? Having more of an item available at any given time breeds competition and that's how the prices drop to their actual selling price quicker. This is why I'd prefer at least a month as the new max sale window.

 

 

I don't mind paying GTN tax if someone buys my crafted items. But I'm not gonna start paying taxes for sales I didn't get to make, because someone undercuts me with 1 credit the moment I log out. And then the next one, and the next one, and the next one. Three days later I still haven't sold my items because people keep undercutting me by one credit, yet I would have to pay taxes the priviledge of being able to list items that are 1 credit more expensive than someone else's. 

 

The timer I suggested would apply to GTN items someone else crafted. That would prevent, or at least slow down the GTN players who buy low and sell high -i.e. the gtn players. Relisting my own, expired items wouldn't have a cooldown timer. I'm not trying to make profit with someone else's crafting, like GTN players are, so why would my items even have a timer. So if the item is something I crafted, I can put it back to GTN immediately and there won't be a shortage of supply. Every crafter can do the same. It would only affect the people who aren't crafting themselves, but reselling what others crafted and trying to make a profit by raising prices.

[SteveTheCynic]

5 hours ago, Dayshadow said:

That's not punitive. That's the broker fee. The cost of doing business on the GTN. And I mentioned a grace period to account for mistakes, which you've ignored.

So again, effectively a strawman argument. You even cite another person's strawman who is talking about 3-day sales periods.

OK, I'm not going to bother discussing this further, since you are clearly unwilling to acknowledge that you might actually be, you know, *wrong*.  Bye.

[Dayshadow]

7 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

I don't mind paying GTN tax if someone buys my crafted items. But I'm not gonna start paying taxes for sales I didn't get to make, because someone undercuts me with 1 credit the moment I log out. And then the next one, and the next one, and the next one. Three days later I still haven't sold my items because people keep undercutting me by one credit, yet I would have to pay taxes the priviledge of being able to list items that are 1 credit more expensive than someone else's. 

 

The timer I suggested would apply to GTN items someone else crafted. That would prevent, or at least slow down the GTN players who buy low and sell high -i.e. the gtn players. Relisting my own, expired items wouldn't have a cooldown timer. I'm not trying to make profit with someone else's crafting, like GTN players are, so why would my items even have a timer. So if the item is something I crafted, I can put it back to GTN immediately and there won't be a shortage of supply. Every crafter can do the same. It would only affect the people who aren't crafting themselves, but reselling what others crafted and trying to make a profit by raising prices.

Yeah, like I said. If there is sooooooo much supply that in a month's times your items go unsold because they sell so slowly, you're not really needed anyway. Might as well not bother even now. I'd imagine whatever it is you're selling doesn't sells very often even now if you have these kinds of fears. In all the time I've played EVE Online over the past 2 decades I don't think I've ever had the problem you think is going to occur (there it's 3 months max), but if you hypothetically couldn't sell anything in a month... yeah, you should find something new. Because in this scenario you've concocted consumers are getting all the product they want. Everything is working as intended.

Oh, so you want to throw a wrench in the day trading market. As I understand it, many day traders have no issue holding on to items for extended periods. Day trading is how I built up my money. When I came back to the game after 5 years I had under 20 million, which was decent when I left. The only way I could make real money was buying low and selling high. No activity I was aware of could make me the credits to buy stuff in the new billion credit economy. The credits rewards Bioware gives are less than pocket lint. My highest character was level 54 and I had only two who completely the class stories. Nothing beyond that. A CM style timer wouldn't change anything. And I can assure you, there is no rush. I know people holding on to stuff with plans to sell years down the line when an item is projected to be more rare once off direct purchase on the CM. I started out small buying up cheap dyes for 150K and reselling for 700K. As I made more money I started buying armor sets I'd find for cheap and reselling for billions in P2P trading. I don't do much of that anymore as I just wanted to get armor sets and I reach my goal. Point is, even with a 36 hour timer, I'd still have done it. I'd still buy up those dyes and within two days I'd have a steady supply of items ready to sale each morning as each group of items came off their timers. What you would need is for crafted items to be "bind on purchase".

[Dayshadow]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

OK, I'm not going to bother discussing this further, since you are clearly unwilling to acknowledge that you might actually be, you know, *wrong*.  Bye.

Bruh, you literally ignored points I made. I mentioned a grace period to retract sale orders so your main complaint was based in your own misinformation.

 

On 3/18/2023 at 5:52 AM, Dayshadow said:

Exemptions can be made if the order is cancelled with an hour of posting. The Brokers fee can be refunded if sale is cancelled with 5 minutes of posting (people make mistakes).

It's also not based on a 3-day sale window, but a 1 month sales window. You quoted someone whose main complaint completely ignored the fact the item could be up for more than 3 days.

On 3/18/2023 at 5:52 AM, Dayshadow said:

I'd also say the time an item can stay on the market should be increased to at least a month

 

Both of those quotes are in the OP. You are OBJECTIVELY in the wrong here. And you know it. You're only demonstrating how immature and prideful you are in not acknowledging you were incorrect. So of course, you're going to walk away. You lost. And admitting you are wrong on the internet is too much for many to handle.