So why did so many quit the game over the years?

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

Agreed!  Several of us warned that things were starting to spiral out of control at or about the time SoV was released.  And things continued out of control (or at least it seemed that way).

With 7.2 things are defiantly looking up!  Hopefully the PvP area will get whatever it needs there and the rest of SWTOR will begin to improve once again!

There are 2 major problems with the latest pvp system that are once again a BioWare self inflicted development wound.

1. They added 8 man premades vs pugs (dumbest pvp idea in the history or the game).

2. Deserter lockout timers (that can lock someone out of pvp for up to 6 hours at a time & its cumulative over a week)

Both of these ridiculous ideas is negatively affecting pvp more than the good they did with the other changes.

So once again, BioWare takes 2 steps forward & 4 steps backwards to negate any positive changes & actually make things worse.

I won’t duplicate what we’ve already been discussing in the pvp forums. But if you’re interested, there are 3 or 4 threads going over there as to why these things are a problem. 

The main take away for anyone who doesn’t want to read them is either system by itself is driving players from pvp & possibly the game. Combined they are obnoxious & go against BioWares own set goals of rebuilding the pvp community numbers & reducing toxicity.

But sadly, this is the sort of terrible development choices we’ve come to expect from BioWare over the years & shows they don’t listen properly or care enough to address these issues in a timely manner. They would rather let it fester until it drives more people from pvp & the game than actually admit they made a mistake. 

I blatantly refuse to step into pvp until it’s fixed & pvp was the most important part of the game for me. So I’m not sure I’ll be resubbing this month unless there is some effort by BioWare to communicate with the community that they have heard the players & plan to address these self inflicted wounds in a timely manner. I know I’m not the only pvp player who feels this way.

 

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There are 2 major problems with the latest pvp system that are once again a BioWare self inflicted development wound.

1. They added 8 man premades vs pugs (dumbest pvp idea in the history or the game).

2. Deserter lockout timers (that can lock someone out of pvp for up to 6 hours at a time & its cumulative over a week)

Both of these ridiculous ideas is negatively affecting pvp more than the good they did with the other changes.

So once again, BioWare takes 2 steps forward & 4 steps backwards to negate any positive changes & actually make things worse.

I won’t duplicate what we’ve already been discussing in the pvp forums. But if you’re interested, there are 3 or 4 threads going over there as to why these things are a problem. 

The main take away for anyone who doesn’t want to read them is either system by itself is driving players from pvp & possibly the game. Combined they are obnoxious & go against BioWares own set goals of rebuilding the pvp community numbers & reducing toxicity.

But sadly, this is the sort of terrible development choices we’ve come to expect from BioWare over the years & shows they don’t listen properly or care enough to address these issues in a timely manner. They would rather let it fester until it drives more people from pvp & the game than actually admit they made a mistake. 

I blatantly refuse to step into pvp until it’s fixed & pvp was the most important part of the game for me. So I’m not sure I’ll be resubbing this month unless there is some effort by BioWare to communicate with the community that they have heard the players & plan to address these self inflicted wounds in a timely manner. I know I’m not the only pvp player who feels this way.

 

Actually I DID read several of the threads!  Good grief what a mess!  I'm not even involved with PvP and I can see why folks are upset! Which BTW is why I included the statement I did about PvP getting the much-needed attention that it obviously needs!

This game needs the PvP players just as much as they need hard-core PvE / solo / or RPG players.  Like it not we're all in this together!  We leave no one behind!

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

Actually I DID read several of the threads!  Good grief what a mess!  I'm not even involved with PvP and I can see why folks are upset! Which BTW is why I included the statement I did about PvP getting the much-needed attention that it obviously needs!

This game needs the PvP players just as much as they need hard-core PvE / solo / or RPG players.  Like it not we're all in this together!  We leave no one behind!

Im bitterly disappointed that @JackieKo & Co have chosen to ignore the premade situation entirely. They won’t even discuss the topic. It’s a repeat of BioWare’s attitude over the years of sticking their heads in the sand & hoping it all goes away or the players complaining leave the game 🤯

Jackie did comment on the lockouts, but not in a positive way. More to do with their implementation & more worried people might find away to exploit the lockout rules 🤯.
She didn’t acknowledge anything at all about the negative affects they are causing. Ie people AFKing instead of leaving (causing more Toxicity) or people who DC from lag getting locked out of pvp through no fault of their own.

Many people feel BioWare is doing a typical BioWare & won’t fix either. With them refusing to even acknowledge these are legitimate problems or discuss it, they are only enforcing the belief that BioWare don’t listen & don’t actually care about player retention or enjoyment. 

None of which is good for the game or player to dev trust. It actually makes new or returning players less likely to stick around & less likely to return again. 
It further damages BioWares reputation & player loyalty.

[OlBuzzard]

37 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Im bitterly disappointed that @JackieKo & Co have chosen to ignore the premade situation entirely. They won’t even discuss the topic. It’s a repeat of BioWare’s attitude over the years of sticking their heads in the sand & hoping it all goes away or the players complaining leave the game 🤯

Jackie did comment on the lockouts, but not in a positive way. More to do with their implementation & more worried people might find away to exploit the lockout rules 🤯.
She didn’t acknowledge anything at all about the negative affects they are causing. Ie people AFKing instead of leaving (causing more Toxicity) or people who DC from lag getting locked out of pvp through no fault of their own.

Many people feel BioWare is doing a typical BioWare & won’t fix either. With them refusing to even acknowledge these are legitimate problems or discuss it, they are only enforcing the belief that BioWare don’t listen & don’t actually care about player retention or enjoyment. 

None of which is good for the game or player to dev trust. It actually makes new or returning players less likely to stick around & less likely to return again. 
It further damages BioWares reputation & player loyalty.

Good grief!!  Please take the following in the best possible light just in case I come across the wrong way (as if I've never done that before!!) LOL!

** Something tells me that the lack of communication from JackieKO is somewhat uncharacteristic.  (for her).  This may be due to a number of reason... ALL of which would strictly speculation on my part.  No I'm not a rubber stamp for her or BW.  I think you know me well enough by now to understand that.
** Does something need to be said by a developer spokesperson on the matter??  REALLY >>> YA THINK!!!  (that's my response to just about anyone reading this!"
** More importantly something POSITIVE really needs to be DONE!  As I have mentioned before I really do remember reading the old forums on the PvP subject!  Some of it was really excellent work!  NO!  I don't remember the particulars.  I wish I did!  This overall concern reverts directly back to one of the oldest complaints that's been around for ... what ... 2-3 years now??  LISTENING!!  HELLO??? 
** About the best I can say for those of you who are in the PvP stuff ..  "sympathy"?    I know that doesn't cut it!  This situation reminds me of a powder keg with the fuse lit (and it's a hollow fuse)! Frankly..  it's buggin' the daylights out of me just typing this!  I really don't think this is JackieKO's fault (the lack of communication).   BUT make no mistake about it some discussions have taken place in the office over it! (let's just say from my own standpoint of view I can't imagine it NOT happening).

OH!  And for the record I don't blame PvP players for the frustrations either!

[FlameYOL]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:43 AM, ZUHFB said:

then get a more accurate estimation... like am I your mom or something? don't like the numbers get better ones, oh wait, there aren't any better ones

accept those, or give me better ones, just that simple - saying they aren't proof of anything... then get me better ones or sit down, holy moly.

The burden of proof is on you, you're the one affirming your estimate is correct. 

[FlameYOL]

11 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Can you imagine the outrage if they released new story content but only for Troopers and Sith Inquisitors, with nothing else for any others?  (Even if it was stated very clearly, and multiple times, that they would be adding others later, the same outrage would still be there.)

 

Oh I can only imagine how the forums would react to that. It'd be like W40K here "There is only war"

[Char_Ell]

On 1/28/2023 at 11:31 AM, ZUHFB said:

they don't, that is why we get no content and that is why people are quitting

the mmo population site even displays numbers for MMOs that are shut down, my number is more accuracte by a large margin

explain how its 5k steam players, even if its 10-15k using the old one (highly unlikely) it is still not even in the same dimension as 100k

I don't get why you say your number is more accurate.  As I stated, your previous number is, at best, an educated guess.  The only numbers I think are reliable are from steamcharts.com.  You think Steam players outnumber non-Steam players.  I think the opposite.  So any extrapolation made from steamcharts.com as to actual subscriber numbers is strictly a guess because 1) steamcharts.com does not distinguish subscribers from non-subs and 2) steamcharts.com obviously does not have the number of SWTOR player accounts not playing thru Steam.

Yes, I agree the person you originally replied to had zero basis for their sky high subscriber numbers unless they were relying on mmo-population.com for SWTOR numbers as it says the game currently has 218K+ daily players.   I have no idea how that site comes up with its numbers though so I do not give them any real credence.  I think all we have is steamcharts.com to give us some idea of population trends, not actual subscriber numbers or overall player activity.

[ZUHFB]

10 hours ago, Char_Ell said:

I don't get why you say your number is more accurate. 

Because I could say any number from 0-100k and it would be closer to the truth than the 218k from the weird website. Where are those people? It would mean 20k active players per server, there is never more than 350 people on fleet at any given time (DM, SF prob higher) and fleet is by far the highest instance. Furthermore there are basically no asian players even solidifying my point, due to them not just being asleep during prime time or w/e they just don't exist.

[Shayddow]

One thing tho, regardless of how many play on the English-speaking servers, something will have to be done about the French server. The German one isn't quite as bad, but I was playing on the French one last night.

There were 5 people .. TOTAL... on the Imperial Fleet on Leviathan. There were 3 people... TOTAL on the Republic Fleet.  You can't play any group activities with that type of population. 

 

[wwefarming]

Il y a 5 heures, Shayddow a dit :

One thing tho, regardless of how many play on the English-speaking servers, something will have to be done about the French server. The German one isn't quite as bad, but I was playing on the French one last night.

There were 5 people .. TOTAL... on the Imperial Fleet on Leviathan. There were 3 people... TOTAL on the Republic Fleet.  You can't play any group activities with that type of population. 

 

As someone who plays here, I can 100% say It's because you played at the time where most french players were sleeping, the server's population is like ~98% of french speaking players living in the same timezone so of course if you play during the week at 1 or 2am (France timezone) you won't find anyone to play with.

At peak time and depending the day you can have around 50-60 people on Republic Fleet and around 70-80 on Imperial Fleet. Last weekend if I'm not mistaken? There was around 80 players on pub fleet and the Imperial Fleet even had two instances as there was more than than 100 players there, so I can assure you the server isn't "empty" 24/7. Some people here often forget that TH and Levi are meant to be the smaller servers out of the 5 and will never reach the level of DM or both NA servers in term of population.

[OlBuzzard]

I've been really going over some stuff about all of this for a while now.  A lot of things have been discussed (and for good reasons as well).  It has prompt me to work on something that I hope to share later on (perhaps today).

There are without question two other things (attached to yet a third MAJOR problem):
** Gating:  both TIME gating and resource for better gaming experience
** The CM  BW's cash cow that initially helped rescue the game since it was bleeding players at a fast rate but has now possibly become the end game????  While the CM can be an excellent place to visit and buy a little eye candy from time to time when the in game experience either suffers from it OR there is nothing to be found in game to satisfy customers who really are focused on the GAME (not the CM) that leaves a HUGE void.  I discuss this more with that project I'm working on!
** Misplaced confidence:  The fact that this is a Star Wars game means that there will ALWAYS be a following regardless of what is produced.  IMO NO GAME is beyond the possibility of failure.  Even the great WoW discovered this!  Their numbers had dropped significantly over the last two years (depending upon what source you read).  And frankly the lights of SWTOR with the drop of 7.0 and 7.1 were unquestionably starting to flicker!  Some would push that date back even further (possibly back to SoV others might suggest JUS.  But for me personally it was unquestionably 7.0 and 7.1).
** One size fits all.  While I personally loved the KotFE / ET story line one of the single biggest mistakes was erasing the different class stories and blending them into one!  Heck .. for that matter the two different factions were almost erased as well.  TODAY with the drop of 7.2 (from what I've seen) there are at least some minor differences.  The JK (for example) recognized the padawan and communicated differently with her than the smuggler or the commando.  Again ...  more on this later! (Including the reason SWTOR really does need a new class added to the game).

I'm quite certain that pages of opinions can be displayed over these topics of discussions.  And, unfortunately, there is a huge amount of clear-cut evidence that these points have existed in the past and still do today!  IMO there really needs to be a focused effort for these things to be addressed!  There are tons of opinions (some of them good) on each of these subjects.  There are a lot of good players in this community who really are concerned.  Someone needs to not only listen but talk to someone far enough up the food chain to make things right!

Sorry for the wall of text this AM!  

And for the record:  Something I've said time and time again... 7.2 is good!  It is a step in the right direction.  This new release really is worth the time!

[TrixxieTriss]

12 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

I've been really going over some stuff about all of this for a while now.  A lot of things have been discussed (and for good reasons as well).  It has prompt me to work on something that I hope to share later on (perhaps today).

There are without question two other things (attached to yet a third MAJOR problem):
** Gating:  both TIME gating and resource for better gaming experience
** The CM  BW's cash cow that initially helped rescue the game since it was bleeding players at a fast rate but has now possibly become the end game????  While the CM can be an excellent place to visit and buy a little eye candy from time to time when the in game experience either suffers from it OR there is nothing to be found in game to satisfy customers who really are focused on the GAME (not the CM) that leaves a HUGE void.  I discuss this more with that project I'm working on!
** Misplaced confidence:  The fact that this is a Star Wars game means that there will ALWAYS be a following regardless of what is produced.  IMO NO GAME is beyond the possibility of failure.  Even the great WoW discovered this!  Their numbers had dropped significantly over the last two years (depending upon what source you read).  And frankly the lights of SWTOR with the drop of 7.0 and 7.1 were unquestionably starting to flicker!  Some would push that date back even further (possibly back to SoV others might suggest JUS.  But for me personally it was unquestionably 7.0 and 7.1).
** One size fits all.  While I personally loved the KotFE / ET story line one of the single biggest mistakes was erasing the different class stories and blending them into one!  Heck .. for that matter the two different factions were almost erased as well.  TODAY with the drop of 7.2 (from what I've seen) there are at least some minor differences.  The JK (for example) recognized the padawan and communicated differently with her than the smuggler or the commando.  Again ...  more on this later! (Including the reason SWTOR really does need a new class added to the game).

I'm quite certain that pages of opinions can be displayed over these topics of discussions.  And, unfortunately, there is a huge amount of clear-cut evidence that these points have existed in the past and still do today!  IMO there really needs to be a focused effort for these things to be addressed!  There are tons of opinions (some of them good) on each of these subjects.  There are a lot of good players in this community who really are concerned.  Someone needs to not only listen but talk to someone far enough up the food chain to make things right!

Sorry for the wall of text this AM!  

And for the record:  Something I've said time and time again... 7.2 is good!  It is a step in the right direction.  This new release really is worth the time!

@JackieKoI’ve just left BioWare some more detailed feedback AGAIN as I unsub till they address the premade vs solo players queue setup & the lockout situation in pvp.

And while BioWare is sort of communicating with players re: lockouts, they seem to be blatantly refusing to even discuss this premade issue (which is even worse).
Their continued silence on this topic tells me they won’t back down on this stupid idea to put 8 man premades vs solo players any time soon.

And honestly, there have been enough discussions in the pvp forums for BioWare to understand how game destroying both systems are.  
One is taking too long to address & the other is being totally ignored by BioWare.

Sadly, this situation is too much for me as a paying customer to ignore. I’ve lost all patience to stick around hoping there will be proper & timely communication from the devs on these topics. 

They’ve got 18 days till my sub time runs out to reply to the players with a detailed plan & time frame to fix these issues. If they can’t do that in 18 days, I’ll be gone & I’m not sure when I’ll be back. 

[OlBuzzard]

37 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

@JackieKoI’ve just left BioWare some more detailed feedback AGAIN as I unsub till they address the premade vs solo players queue setup & the lockout situation in pvp.

And while BioWare is sort of communicating with players re: lockouts, they seem to be blatantly refusing to even discuss this premade issue (which is even worse).
Their continued silence on this topic tells me they won’t back down on this stupid idea to put 8 man premades vs solo players any time soon.

And honestly, there have been enough discussions in the pvp forums for BioWare to understand how game destroying both systems are.  
One is taking too long to address & the other is being totally ignored by BioWare.

Sadly, this situation is too much for me as a paying customer to ignore. I’ve lost all patience to stick around hoping there will be proper & timely communication from the devs on these topics. 

They’ve got 18 days till my sub time runs out to reply to the players with a detailed plan & time frame to fix these issues. If they can’t do that in 18 days, I’ll be gone & I’m not sure when I’ll be back. 

[/takes deep breath] [/shakes head negatively]
This isn't what I was hoping for! 

NOT GOOD !!!

EDIT:  I'm not happy with what these folks are going through!  This affects more than just a few players.  It sends a very negative message across other areas of the game! (just my opinion)

Edited February 2, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[TrixxieTriss]

17 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

[/takes deep breath] [/shakes head negatively]
This isn't what I was hoping for! 

NOT GOOD !!!

🤷🏻‍♀️ The balls in BioWares court & always has been when it comes to better communication with the player base. They still have 18 days.

They have chosen to deal with (or not) one of the biggest problems currently affecting pvp players through a strategy of complete silence & inaction.

They really leave us no choice when they won’t even discuss the topic. I’m sure I’m not alone in feeling or thinking this way. I wonder how many others are just leaving & not saying anything? 

Edited February 2, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Sappharan]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:56 AM, jedipattawan said:

Just wondering what it was that led to the game dropping off from upwards of a million subs to around 100k-200k these days?  Not that that is bad cause honestly that's still quite a lot but I am just wondering what your thoughts or input are?

What would bring you or your friends back?

What haven't they done that people always wanted that would interest players?

Is the end game not being a big focus a huge turn off for people?  From what I can see the last raid was 3 bosses and one of them sits stationary in the room and never moves at all.  And the R-4 anomaly ending cutscene looked very cheaply done as well with some bad audio.  Would an LFR type feature help at all where you just queue up for a raid with others for the bosses?  Would more bosses and bigger budget raids with 8 to 12 bosses interest people?

Is it because the story has all been done before and then that's it and people don't stick around after that?

Don't have to bother to answer any or all of these I'm just curious.  I've only ever heard the end game isn't very good for SWTOR and it's more a single player game with the story.

PvE activities do not particularly appeal to me.  The story is incentive to join the game, imo.  It's the activity players pursue afterward that keeps them returning.  Right now I could not care less about the story.  I have not even bothered with the story past getting certain crew members returned. 

As for leaving the game that started with the gearing change for the umpteenth time; it frustrated me.  So I soft quit.  Still paid the subscription, lazy I guess.  Would go 3-4 months without logging in, then log in for about 30 minutes, get frustrated with the gearing and then not log in again for further months.  I finally started to miss PvP enough to start trying to learn the new gearing system which confused me a bit (destruction of favorite tactical -Fanged God Form- and other odd decisions) and then came the tyrannical and monstrous deserter debuff triple down.  This 20 minutes, 1 hour, 6 hour nightmare tells me they're actively seeking to ruin the game.

Still waiting for subscription to lapse.  Sadly, I am paid through April.  But, removed my cc information. 

Bringing me back is easy.  End 8 man premades AND end the deserter debuff.  Either alone will not induce me to resubscribe. 

Yeah, I'm done. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Sappharan

[Chryptyk]

Unfortunately voting with our wallets does not seem to have had much effect upon their decisions.  Even after the massive drop in players after 7, we've seen a continuing pattern of one bad decision after another.

While in some regards they have softened their stance on some things.  the overall concept of 7 is still extremely unpopular.  the "Year of Celebration" has been anything but.

they need to back off these bad design decisions or the next swtor stream we're gonna be seeing is NSYNC's Bye, bye, bye

[OlBuzzard]

**  I really don't think JackieKo is behind this PvP silence!  I really don't!  (it's just not her style). Someone else is saying NO! (and insisting on silence)
**  There is someone responsible inside of B/W (and far enough up the food chain to change things)
**  And someone inside of BW is able to actually HELP...  IF they want to!

This continued silence and refusal to offer consolation or assurances to the players who are begging for help is just incomprehensible!  Just exactly what in the name of common sense does ANYONE think that is going to prove?  (Don't get me wound up any tighter than where I'm at right now!)

NOT GOOD !!!!

 

EDIT:  To OP... well you did ask the question:  Why??  And what you see unfolding right is a part of that answer! (BTW... not meant to be argumentative with you ... just saying!)

Edited February 2, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[Sappharan]

23 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

Because I could say any number from 0-100k and it would be closer to the truth than the 218k from the weird website. Where are those people? It would mean 20k active players per server, there is never more than 350 people on fleet at any given time (DM, SF prob higher) and fleet is by far the highest instance. Furthermore there are basically no asian players even solidifying my point, due to them not just being asleep during prime time or w/e they just don't exist.

Speculative, but perhaps the game survives on "gym memberships" and has for awhile.  People, like me in the past, who pay a subscription but don't actively participate.  It's how many gyms survive.  People resolve to make a change, start going and give over their cc information.  Easy money for the gym and most people can't be bothered to quit because of that nagging guilt.  Then they forget.

[TrixxieTriss]

53 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

**  I really don't think JackieKo is behind this PvP silence!  I really don't!  (it's just not her style). Someone else is saying NO! (and insisting on silence)
**  There is someone responsible inside of B/W

I don’t disagree with your assessment. I think she’s been told to not even discuss the topic of premades.

Sadly, she is the CM & our main communication hub to BioWare. Unfortunately that means most feedback is directed at her. I’m sure she knows by now it’s not personal. 

Ultimately, it’s most likely @EricMusco making this decision as he’s the one in charge & it’s also the same type of MO he used as community manager.

He refused to ever engage the community when BioWare made a mistake or there was a highly contentious issue. We would get silence for months on end. I still haven’t forgotten or forgiven him for that.

I hope Jackie knows I respect her enough to understand the situation she’s in. But I also hope she is passing the msg back to those above her that this silence around premades is going to keep festering in the community the longer they ignore it. Which will lead to more people leaving.

Edited February 2, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[OlBuzzard]

1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I don’t disagree with your assessment. I think she’s been told to not even discuss the topic of premades.

Sadly, she is the CM & our main communication hub to BioWare. Unfortunately that means most feedback is directed at her. I’m sure she knows by now it’s not personal. 

Ultimately, it’s most likely @EricMusco making this decision as he’s the one in charge & it’s also the same type of MO he used as community manager.

He refused to ever engage the community when BioWare made a mistake or there was a highly contentious issue. We would get silence for months on end. I still haven’t forgotten or forgiven him for that.

I hope Jackie knows I respect her enough to understand the situation she’s in. But I also hope she is passing the msg back to those above her that this silence around premades is going to keep festering in the community the longer they ignore it. Which will lead to more people leaving.

We are both on the same page!!  IMO @JackieKo ... has been discussing this all along with someone who has the authority to get this sorted out!  At the very least someone could take the time to offer a word of encouragement that changes are in the works.  That is of course IF there are any plans to fix this mess in the works!  

To be blunt (without getting one of those you've been really naughty notices) ... it gripes my butt that things have eroded to this point! 

[/facepalm]

[eabevella]

I want to get the pvp deco rewards but the pvp is such a mess that I pretend they don't exist.

If I had no desire of playing pvp before, the current situation definitely didn't help at all.

[SteveTheCynic]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

@JackieKoI’ve just left BioWare some more detailed feedback AGAIN as I unsub till they address the premade vs solo players queue setup & the lockout situation in pvp.

That's not good.  Know that you'll be missed, and by more players than just me.

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

They’ve got 18 days till my sub time runs out to reply to the players with a detailed plan & time frame to fix these issues. If they can’t do that in 18 days, I’ll be gone & I’m not sure when I’ll be back. 

I have no optimism(1) that they'll do anything meaningful in that sort of time-frame, so I'll wish you all the best, and hope to see you again soon.

(1) For the rest of the audience, this is me being pessimistic rather than cynical.

[felleto]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:47 PM, OlBuzzard said:

Actually I DID read several of the threads!  Good grief what a mess!  I'm not even involved with PvP and I can see why folks are upset! Which BTW is why I included the statement I did about PvP getting the much-needed attention that it obviously needs!

This game needs the PvP players just as much as they need hard-core PvE / solo / or RPG players.  Like it not we're all in this together!  We leave no one behind!

I honestly think they don't care at this point. What makes them money is the cartel market and whales, so why waste any efforts in systems and players that don't bring that much revenue. It's a dumb idea. 

They stick to and fix bugs only for things that bring the company money. Can you imagine if the cartel market was bugged for even a day? They would fix that ASAP. Now that pvp is part of the free to play experience is their way of basically saying "you guys don't make us enough money so we have stopped caring here is a reward track, have fun that's all you're getting from us for a long time"

I feel sad because I don't see this in a positive light at all. Instead of investing their time and effort and making the game more attractive to news players they are cutting costs more and more and this upsets me greatly. I never played ranked pvp but I understand it's importance. 

For the story, we are getting what, one content drop every 6 months? And for solo play we have been playing the same old content for 10 years so no new development there. I think most of the cash this game makes just goes for our hutt overlords at EA and almost nothing is reinvested at the game. 

BioWare is leaving everyone behind except their shareholders.

Edited February 2, 2023 by felleto

[OlBuzzard]

9 hours ago, eabevella said:

I want to get the pvp deco rewards but the pvp is such a mess that I pretend they don't exist.

If I had no desire of playing pvp before, the current situation definitely didn't help at all.

The entire situation is discouraging at best!  And (whether it is intended or not) this also sends another message loud and clear to the rest of us who have extended a hand of friendship to players such as @TrixxieTriss.   BTW.. that message AINT a good one either!

Also @TrixxieTriss ...  I'm not giving up just yet.  This whole matter might be a contest to see who flinches first!  I do hope you don't leave again!  But if that is the path you feel necessary then ... please take care.  I we hope for your quick return!  (Yes .. I know that means some more changes that would still have to take place.
Hmmmm??

** Guild Wars 2 ?
** FF XIV ??
** ESO ??
** WoW??
Yes ... in that order!

[OlBuzzard]

10 hours ago, eabevella said:

I want to get the pvp deco rewards but the pvp is such a mess that I pretend they don't exist.

If I had no desire of playing pvp before, the current situation definitely didn't help at all.

Having read this series of threads and the PvP forum ... why would ANYONE want to get in the middle of that mess?

Edit:  yes!  I wanted this to be separate for a reason!

Edited February 2, 2023 by OlBuzzard