AP really needs to be rebuffed

[DragonCream]

I'm just keeping it real, AP went from being a decent pve class to being the lowest. Why? It wasn't top tier anyway, that was hatred, which was still powerful even then, and still is on top for the highest parsing class now. I'll be honest, I don't pvp, i only play pve and i dont know how good it is in pvp but i want to play it in pve. It's the only class i really had fun on, its so saddening to me that its now the lowest class. Pyro is fun, but i want AP back to where it was. I'm tired of only seeing hatred, rage and fury. They've all been nerfed and are still at the top. Its so saddening, I want the game to be good and i want to have fun in it. Hell i would spend money on the game if i could truly have fun with my favorite spec.

Bioware, do everyone a favor and stop nerfing classes in the middle. Instead bring them up to the high points, please, at this point im begging you. Make this game fun for me again and believe it or not, ill throw my money at you.

[AdjeYo]

I don't disagree that AP could use a slight buff, but they're not exactly the worst dps specs. Dummy parses are a misleading metric since Powertechs get a fair bit of reactive damage, which you don't get on a dummy, but often do in raids. 

They also have solid raid utility, but then again Pyro has everything AP has except armour break, so the raid utility doesn't quite help. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by AdjeYo

[Beyrahl]

It's a weird situation, you used to be able to empowerment stack which would inflate TD's quite a lot and it was not only best to do in PvP, it was viable to do in PvE too. They fixed that completely along with the other nerfs, mag blast nerf seems a bit over done imo. 
They should of started with empowerment bug fix first then seen how things faired instead of everything all at once.
Along with that from a PvP standpoint, taunt stun needs to be reworked/removed. This tactical is a large part of what makes this class busted in PvP.

[SentinalMasterWW]

I was in the camp that AP/tactics needed to be lowered mainly in the area of its insane burst opener, However after Playing I do think AP should get some small buffs. I also do hope they buff Pyrotech as well, Its a really fun spec but could use some better burst DMG. 

AP is also kind of a kamikaze class in PVP, you rush in do a lot of DMG than slowly get picked off.

[AdjeYo]

1 hour ago, SentinalMasterWW said:

I was in the camp that AP/tactics needed to be lowered mainly in the area of its insane burst opener, However after Playing I do think AP should get some small buffs. I also do hope they buff Pyrotech as well, Its a really fun spec but could use some better burst DMG. 

AP is also kind of a kamikaze class in PVP, you rush in do a lot of DMG than slowly get picked off.

Pyro does not need better burst. It's a sustained spec (and does very well in that regard) with solid AoE. And with Fuel and the tactical it has insane burst as well, albeit on a long cooldown. 

[Xerekfell]

On 1/18/2023 at 1:14 AM, AdjeYo said:

Pyro does not need better burst. It's a sustained spec (and does very well in that regard) with solid AoE. And with Fuel and the tactical it has insane burst as well, albeit on a long cooldown. 

Pyro's burst is incredibly mediocre for a dot spec, the only thing Pyro has going for it in pvp and pve is the extra dot for railshot, flaming fist aoe, and that's pretty much it( For dps). Even Leth has superior burst to Pyro atm after the Viral Elements nerf. Imo they can prob fix it by making Immolate a Energy damage ability and add armor break to the spec. The other option is take the Mando Warhead 7% elemental/internal buff and add it to Scorch. That way the spec isn't too overpowered in both respective game modes. Pyro's dmg in pvp mostly comes from tab targeting Scorches anyways.

Edited January 24 by Xerekfell

[Xerekfell]

On 1/16/2023 at 8:30 PM, DragonCream said:

I'm just keeping it real, AP went from being a decent pve class to being the lowest. Why? It wasn't top tier anyway, that was hatred, which was still powerful even then, and still is on top for the highest parsing class now. I'll be honest, I don't pvp, i only play pve and i dont know how good it is in pvp but i want to play it in pve. It's the only class i really had fun on, its so saddening to me that its now the lowest class. Pyro is fun, but i want AP back to where it was. I'm tired of only seeing hatred, rage and fury. They've all been nerfed and are still at the top. Its so saddening, I want the game to be good and i want to have fun in it. Hell i would spend money on the game if i could truly have fun with my favorite spec.

Bioware, do everyone a favor and stop nerfing classes in the middle. Instead bring them up to the high points, please, at this point im begging you. Make this game fun for me again and believe it or not, ill throw my money at you.

AP PT doesn't need a buff in the burst department, it already has the best burst in the game. The Issue is sustaining AP's dmg in pve. They could revert the bleed dmg nerf and bring it back up to 10%. They could also tack on bleed dmg buff to Energized Vambrace(like it was in 6.0) and give it the 100% dmg buff to bleed when at 4 stacks of Energy Lode while keeping the Mag Blast dmg inc by 20%.

[AdjeYo]

2 hours ago, Xerekfell said:

Pyro's burst is incredibly mediocre for a dot spec, the only thing Pyro has going for it in pvp and pve is the extra dot for railshot, flaming fist aoe, and that's pretty much it( For dps). Even Leth has superior burst to Pyro atm after the Viral Elements nerf. Imo they can prob fix it by making Immolate a Energy damage ability and add armor break to the spec. The other option is take the Mando Warhead 7% elemental/internal buff and add it to Scorch. That way the spec isn't too overpowered in both respective game modes. Pyro's dmg in pvp mostly comes from tab targeting Scorches anyways.

Burst used to be fantastic with Superheated Fuel making all fire damage guaranteed crits. It's definitely less since that was nerfed, but it's a sustained spec and brings very good AoE as well, it shouldn't have amazing burst.

Your suggestion wouldn't really help in any way, since elemental damage (which Immolate is) is superior to energy damage (what you suggest to change it to) even with an armour break active, since it completely bypasses armour already. Chaning Immolate to Energy damage would be a straight up nerf. And armour break makes no sense for Pyro, since almost all of your damage bypasses armour anyway.

Edited January 24 by AdjeYo

[Xerekfell]

31 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

Burst used to be fantastic with Superheated Fuel making all fire damage guaranteed crits. It's definitely less since that was nerfed, but it's a sustained spec and brings very good AoE as well, it shouldn't have amazing burst.

Your suggestion wouldn't really help in any way, since elemental damage (which Immolate is) is superior to energy damage (what you suggest to change it to) even with an armour break active, since it completely bypasses armour already. Chaning Immolate to Energy damage would be a straight up nerf. And armour break makes no sense for Pyro, since almost all of your damage bypasses armour anyway.

I was giving an example of what to pair immolate with if they changed it to energy or kinetic dmg. Also, Pyro is at its weakest in a long time, it peaked in 6.0 with Firefall plop.  The only things Pyro has going for it over AP is Kolto DR and CC Immunity in terms of utility.  Pyro is by no means garbage atm, but it lacks any serious pressure besides just number fluffing with Scorch and the odd 55k Searing Wave every two decades.

Edited January 24 by Xerekfell

[AdjeYo]

16 minutes ago, Xerekfell said:

I was giving an example of what to pair immolate with if they changed it to energy or kinetic dmg. Also, Pyro is at its weakest in a long time, it peaked in 6.0 with Firefall plop.  The only things Pyro has going for it over AP is Kolto DR and CC Immunity in terms of utility.  Pyro is by no means garbage atm, but it lacks any serious pressure besides just number fluffing with Scorch and the odd 55k Searing Wave every two decades.

It's got sustained damage and AoE pressure. What you'd expect from a dot spec. Obviously it doesn't hold a candle to AP when it comes to burst, but that's kind of the point, it shouldn't. 

[Xerekfell]

5 minutes ago, AdjeYo said:

It's got sustained damage and AoE pressure. What you'd expect from a dot spec. Obviously it doesn't hold a candle to AP when it comes to burst, but that's kind of the point, it shouldn't. 

Vengeance has higher burst than Pyro and it's sustained dmg as well. Leth is a sustained dps spec and does more burst and arguably better cleave than Pyro can do still.  They should just bring back pre nerf immolate crit chance. If i remember correctly, that's what they nerfed on it and the spec suffers because of it.

Edited January 24 by Xerekfell

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, Xerekfell said:

Vengeance has higher burst than Pyro and it's sustained dmg as well. Leth is a sustained dps spec and does more burst and arguably better cleave than Pyro can do still.  They should just bring back pre nerf immolate crit chance. If i remember correctly, that's what they nerfed on it and the spec suffers because of it.

Pyro doesn't need more burst than what it has. I always thought superheated fuel was so weird for what pyro should be. More people used to use burst classes in pve before when dot classes were not great at everything, now since dot classes also have burst there is not a lot of reasons to use burst that are inferior in terms of damage.
One of the issues of Pyro is that is a class that has no depth, a mediocre pyro player just hitting shiny stuff and having dots at all time can outparse a good one if the person got lucky on crits or who got to hit the most adds with searing wave.

An actual tactical/legenndary is what pyro needs, and i guess that would be ap issue too, is Ap still using overwhelming offense? Mandalorian armaments adds only like 1.5% of total damage.
Lethality and hatred dps have been the top parses for a while, but they are just that. They bring nothing to the group outside of damage.
 

On 1/17/2023 at 5:31 AM, AdjeYo said:

Dummy parses are a misleading metric since Powertechs get a fair bit of reactive damage, which you don't get on a dummy, but often do in raids. 

While this is true you can get like 2k extra dps if you are getting hit throughout the fight close and personal is on the same lvl as aoe dr. Not choosing aoe dr in many fights it's trolling your team and being greedy.

[megawarz]

On 1/24/2024 at 2:33 PM, Xerekfell said:

I was giving an example of what to pair immolate with if they changed it to energy or kinetic dmg. Also, Pyro is at its weakest in a long time, it peaked in 6.0 with Firefall plop.  The only things Pyro has going for it over AP is Kolto DR and CC Immunity in terms of utility.  Pyro is by no means garbage atm, but it lacks any serious pressure besides just number fluffing with Scorch and the odd 55k Searing Wave every two decades.

If you played pyro in 6.0, firefall was the fun part of meteor brawler, but where your dps came from was the old shock trooper 4 piece, which reduced your heat generated abilities by I think 50% for 20 seconds. Also, pyro before fuel change, openers on tyth, 50-55k. Currently with 344 and fuel nerf, 47-53k. Ignite core pre nerf- 63-70k. Ignite core post nerf - 63-70k.  It's such a small change that is easily negated if you know how to play your class. Parsing as PT is annoying on a dummy since as pyro you benefit from PY stacks which reduced your heat on SW and Immolate to 0. Pyro pre nerf, broken as all hell. Pyro post nerf, not nearly as broken, but still broken. It is a dot spec that has great burst every 1:50. If you want burst, you play AP.