Removing Ranked was not asked for.

[krackcommando]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:56 PM, TalLura said:

no we dont think they will be gone, but with more people in the que people on our ignore list should actually be ignored and not grouped against 

has something changed in the past 12 months? ignore doesn't have any effect on who you play with or against in pvp. it just means you can't see what they're saying.

[Weswhitebore]

11 hours ago, IIHawkerII said:

Yup, that's exactly what I just said. 

Then you just don't deserve the rewards, plain and simple. It is people like you who want things practically handed to them and would rather accept things being handed to them, instead of earning them with actual skill and hard work that's part of or contributes to the problem. There are people here who worked really hard for their rewards and deserve them, I have been trained by and played with quite a few of them. I for one was really excited for S15 of Ranked PVP in which I actually had the confidence that I could make silver this season, bronze at the least, after having to retire early last season due to the intensity of my college & work schedule.  The fact that you have the audacity to come in here, declare a big win for you, in which the win is practically a big middle finger by the devs to anyone who has ever worked hard for a ranked reward, displays that you have no character. If I want to become president, that doesn't mean I deserve to be president just because I want it, I have to work for it.  It displays that your only purpose here was to gloat. It however, does prove our point that people who play merely for the rewards or previously only played for mats but don't have the drive, passion, or skill to reap the rewards are part of the issue.

[TheOverMind-]

Weswhitebore is right. When I earned my first silver I felt pvp was more grateful and enjoyable by making some efforts to acheive my goals.

[RikuvonDrake]

doubt many people ask for removal of any content in this game, but this is just your regular business, concept types that cost more than they bring in will more than likely be cancelled as changes to make them profitable proves unsuccessful

if ranked brought in more resources and revenue than it cost it would have stayed, it didn't so it got canned

pretty easy stuff honestly unless your initial viewpoint was that bioware and ea are charity organizations built for welfare purposes

[JediMasterAlex]

1 hour ago, RikuvonDrake said:

doubt many people ask for removal of any content in this game, but this is just your regular business, concept types that cost more than they bring in will more than likely be cancelled as changes to make them profitable proves unsuccessful

if ranked brought in more resources and revenue than it cost it would have stayed, it didn't so it got canned

pretty easy stuff honestly unless your initial viewpoint was that bioware and ea are charity organizations built for welfare purposes

This is closer to being right, but I'll correct you again.

Ranked was costing Bioware virtually nothing, but it also had a small player base, so it wasn't bringing in much revenue either. To make it even clearer, you're trying to claim that designing one armor/weapon set or mount per season (with seasons often lasting a year or more) was more costly than the hundreds of people (at least) that subbed just to play ranked. That is plainly nonsense.

Bioware looked at ranked in its neglected state and faced a choice: (1) properly invest in ranked and see what happens, (2) just leave it as is, or (3) remove it entirely.

The first option is obviously a risk they didn't want to take. If they actually started moderating ranked, adding cool new rewards, doing frequent balance passes on classes, etc, there's a decent chance they wouldn't have gotten a good return on that investment.

The second option was also unattractive, because they probably realized it was wrong to leave ranked in the state that it was in, with speedhackers going unbanned and players like moophy ruining hundreds of matches with zero consequences.

Which just leaves the third option.

There is no reason to keep spreading the nonsensical rumor that Bioware is removing ranked because it was costing them too much, especially when it's spoken from a place of ignorance and bias against pvp.

Edited November 28, 2022 by JediMasterAlex

[Nee-Elder]

2 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

There is no reason to keep spreading the nonsensical rumor that Bioware is removing ranked because it was costing them too much,

i agree,  however i also think some people were referring to a different type of  "cost" .  One that isn't monetary.

But rather, the cost of "toxicity"  and lack of "activity"...or the perception of both therein.

[JediMasterAlex]

10 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i agree,  however i also think some people were referring to a different type of  "cost" .  One that isn't monetary.

But rather, the cost of "toxicity"  and lack of "activity"...or the perception of both therein.

Riku definitely wasn't, but you're right that some others may have.

But even so, it's still the wrong way to look at it. As I've also argued at length for many years, solo ranked was never all that toxic. Most of the people that had bad experiences simply came into ranked totally unprepared for the experience and cried when people said mean things to them. True toxicity, like bigotry, targeted bullying, harassment, etc, was quite rare.

I should clarify though, just because what I've stated are the facts, as observed by myself and other people that actually have played ranked, doesn't mean Bioware sees it that way. As I've observed elsewhere, the people currently in charge at Bioware clearly have no appreciation for competitive pvp whatsoever, so they may actually agree with the forum/reddit narrative that ranked was super "toxic". But that just speaks to Bioware's incompetence and bad attitude, and says nothing about the actual state of ranked.

Edited November 28, 2022 by JediMasterAlex

[RikuvonDrake]

player observations and assumptions or bioware actions and reality, wonder which option can be considered facts...

if ranked increased revenue, profits and resources at all/more than other aspects of this game where those resources could be allocated it would have stuck around, it didn't so clearly that is not the case

that said, its up to each individual to decide if they want to think that bioware removed ranked despite it being profitable without costing any resources, or cause it didn't provide enough/any profits that matched the resources needed to maintain it

[JediMasterAlex]

48 minutes ago, RikuvonDrake said:

if ranked increased revenue, profits and resources at all/more than other aspects of this game where those resources could be allocated it would have stuck around, it didn't so clearly that is not the case

Repeating nonsense does not make it any less wrong. I've already explained the situation several times. You haven't even attempted to refute any of the facts, you're just expressing a principle that doesn't happen to apply in this case.

Bioware 100% could have continued ranked indefinitely as it was and made a "profit." No one soberly looking at the situation could deny this reality. After all, if this decision was so obvious, why did ranked remain in the game for as long as it did? There is no evidence that ranked was in decline. The population has been steady for years. The only thing that has changed is that Bioware has put less and less resources into it.

Not to mention, the idea that Bioware only makes decisions that increase profits is laughable. Anthem and Mass Effect Andromeda provide examples of such incompetence on so many different levels, to trust that Bioware knows what it's doing from a business standpoint is...questionable to say the least lol

[Prapcaster]

2 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

player observations and assumptions or bioware actions and reality, wonder which option can be considered facts...

if ranked increased revenue, profits and resources at all/more than other aspects of this game where those resources could be allocated it would have stuck around, it didn't so clearly that is not the case

that said, its up to each individual to decide if they want to think that bioware removed ranked despite it being profitable without costing any resources, or cause it didn't provide enough/any profits that matched the resources needed to maintain it

The most profitable area of swtor in the past aside from micro transactions obviously has been pvp. Starting the 8v8 ranked. People left WoW in herds to play the 8v8 ranked and a bulk of them left when it was made 4v4. But more people that hated that there were no arenas came back for the ranked which ofc added a lot of revenue to the game. Fast forward a while more and they remove pvp gear which killed most of the remining pvp guilds in swtor.

 

So please explain to me how removing yet another feature that requires you to pay a monthly subscription is a bad idea. Because I just see you repeating the same nonsense arugment over and over again. Coding a new season into the game does not cost them anything. The reson they're removing it is because they have such low talent in their coding team that it should be criminal.

 

 

[TheOverMind-]

Quote

5 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

player observations and assumptions or bioware actions and reality, wonder which option can be considered facts...

if ranked increased revenue, profits and resources at all/more than other aspects of this game where those resources could be allocated it would have stuck around, it didn't so clearly that is not the case

that said, its up to each individual to decide if they want to think that bioware removed ranked despite it being profitable without costing any resources, or cause it didn't provide enough/any profits that matched the resources needed to maintain it

You don't change a receipe that brings you success. Like JediMasterAlex said they make money with ranked so I guess it's more because they don't want people to play that way to separate PVE to PVP players that make this decision. Otherwise they wouldn't have brought the concept of getting some materials to let you buy your gear via pve Flash Points when you are categorically a pvp player. Another similar example is the Quest R4. If you want to play ranked you have to get the maximum stats over your gear and the 340 gear is the Master Mode R4 mission request for that. They Force people to get involved into THEIR ways. Very bad idea. We saw over the time the results of  those games who aren't supported as they should be and that means LISTENING to fans.

You seriously think BioWare is going to make more money if they lose a huge amount of people who paid just for ranked if they don't have the resources to maintain it? Tell me ''how'' they can't get the resources to maintain pvp? We just told several times they make money with it. I mean cmon dude this is non sense. We are not going anywhere with your opinions. It shouldn't be each individual to decide but instead a gratefulness of a group of people who brings you money and success to your company.

Edited November 29, 2022 by TheOverMind-

[RikuvonDrake]

Yes that seems like a reasonable argument, ranked pvp being one of the most profitable pieces of content, thats why it got cut first  clearly that seems like the most logical viewpoint here. bioware not being able to find enough eligible players to give out rewards just last season is nothing but great indicator of an ever increasing playerbase

[JediMasterAlex]

33 minutes ago, RikuvonDrake said:

bioware not being able to find enough eligible players to give out rewards just last season is nothing but great indicator of an ever increasing playerbase

The fact that you continue to repeat this piece of misinformation proves you're just arguing in bad faith. There were not enough eligible GROUP ranked players for top 3 rewards. That has nothing to do with solo ranked, which is what people mean when they say "ranked" 99% of the time.

Furthermore, go look at the leaderboards and you'll notice that ranked participation has not declined. In fact, season 14 participation was above season 13 participation, and far above season 12 participation. It was on par with season 10 participation, which was about 4 years ago.

Not to mention you refuse to grapple with any of the arguments against your completely unsupported positions. It's just sad at this point.

[Prapcaster]

4 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

Yes that seems like a reasonable argument, ranked pvp being one of the most profitable pieces of content, thats why it got cut first  clearly that seems like the most logical viewpoint here. bioware not being able to find enough eligible players to give out rewards just last season is nothing but great indicator of an ever increasing playerbase

They remove extremely well selling items on the cartel market all the time. You're not even making any valid points. You're literally just a troll that's trying to bait people into arugment just like peepee'nero did. Log off and touch grass.

[IIHawkerII]

On 11/25/2022 at 6:34 AM, Weswhitebore said:

Then you just don't deserve the rewards, plain and simple. It is people like you who want things practically handed to them and would rather accept things being handed to them, instead of earning them with actual skill and hard work that's part of or contributes to the problem. There are people here who worked really hard for their rewards and deserve them, I have been trained by and played with quite a few of them. I for one was really excited for S15 of Ranked PVP in which I actually had the confidence that I could make silver this season, bronze at the least, after having to retire early last season due to the intensity of my college & work schedule.  The fact that you have the audacity to come in here, declare a big win for you, in which the win is practically a big middle finger by the devs to anyone who has ever worked hard for a ranked reward, displays that you have no character. If I want to become president, that doesn't mean I deserve to be president just because I want it, I have to work for it.  It displays that your only purpose here was to gloat. It however, does prove our point that people who play merely for the rewards or previously only played for mats but don't have the drive, passion, or skill to reap the rewards are part of the issue.

Mate, I never disputed any of that. Aside from the 'You have no character part', but my honesty wipes that away, so I'm just gonna assume that was a misunderstanding. I understand I would've never gotten these rewards if not the upcoming change, I still want them of course but that doesn't mean I deserve or am entitled to them. It does suck big time for people that actually put in the hard work and grinded for them - But at the end of the day, it is a win for me because I never would've been able to get 'em, never would've touched ranked. That's not gloating, that's me acknowledging that I didn't earn 'em, but I'm being given a gimme all the same which I appreciate.

I'm a casual, I've only tried ranked like... Twice ever. But half of the conversation here is to do with casuals, so I figured it'd be a good idea to provide that perspective. Like I said, I haven't earned diddly, and frankly I never would've seriously engaged in ranked to even try earning them because from what I observed the community was terrible and the gameplay looked too sweaty to be fun for someone with bad ping. That does suck as someone that did work through ranked, but as a casual PvP'er, I'm happy there's some incentive and happier still that I get a crack at the past rewards, even if I frankly don't deserve them.

Edited November 30, 2022 by IIHawkerII

[jedimasterjac]

On 11/29/2022 at 5:36 PM, Prapcaster said:

They remove extremely well selling items on the cartel market all the time.

They cycle through them. But the possibility of (temporary) artificial scarcity, I'd imagine, drives the sales even further.

[TheOverMind-]

Quote

1 hour ago, IIHawkerII said:

Mate, I never disputed any of that. Aside from the 'You have no character part', but my honesty wipes that away, so I'm just gonna assume that was a misunderstanding. I understand I would've never gotten these rewards if not the upcoming change, I still want them of course but that doesn't mean I deserve or am entitled to them. It does suck big time for people that actually put in the hard work and grinded for them - But at the end of the day, it is a win for me because I never would've been able to get 'em, never would've touched ranked. That's not gloating, that's me acknowledging that I didn't earn 'em, but I'm being given a gimme all the same which I appreciate.

I'm a casual, I've only tried ranked like... Twice ever. But half of the conversation here is to do with casuals, so I figured it'd be a good idea to provide that perspective. Like I said, I haven't earned diddly, and frankly I never would've seriously engaged in ranked to even try earning them because from what I observed the community was terrible and the gameplay looked too sweaty to be fun for someone with bad ping. That does suck as someone that did work through ranked, but as a casual PvP'er, I'm happy there's some incentive and happier still that I get a crack at the past rewards, even if I frankly don't deserve them.

Yeah and that's a problem when you say ''victory'' as well. So I should get those rare mounts like red sphere/helix hyperpod from TFB with cartel coins so I will be happier when I think I don't derserve them because I never was able to get it through all the several times I tried. That really sounds like a baby who do not have his toy so he cries. Don't you think? But if mommy is Bioware she just show favoritism over his so desired kid and ignore his second child? I don't think some people realise how does that hurt but you will know someday how does it really really hurt.

At this point.... Bioware should just shut it down this game? But the good point is everyone isn't going to be enjoying this so that makes it a good comprise? Swtor never existed? How is the pie if you got more than half of it and I don't get one single piece? Should I cry like a child?

[IIHawkerII]

1 hour ago, TheOverMind- said:

Yeah and that's a problem when you say ''victory'' as well. So I should get those rare mounts like red sphere/helix hyperpod from TFB with cartel coins so I will be happier when I think I don't derserve them because I never was able to get it through all the several times I tried. That really sounds like a baby who do not have his toy so he cries. Don't you think? But if mommy is Bioware she just show favoritism over his so desired kid and ignore his second child? I don't think some people realise how does that hurt but you will know someday how does it really really hurt.

At this point.... Bioware should just shut it down this game? But the good point is everyone isn't going to be enjoying this so that makes it a good comprise? Swtor never existed? How is the pie if you got more than half of it and I don't get one single piece? Should I cry like a child?

I don't know where you got 'Victory' from, it doesn't appear once in my post. 
If you slowed down for even a wee little moment there, you'd realize 'should' never factored into the equation at all. I don't deserve diddly here and I'm not asking for diddly. So what is happening? You might ask - Well, about two years ago I tried to get into ranked for the first time, I thought the rewards looked cool. Long story short, it sucked bigtime so I never went back. "Hey the rewards are cool, but they're behind ranked so I'll never get 'em. Ah well, too bad.' Afford your attention to the 'Ah well, too bad' part, that's me accepting the cost of said rewards, something that a lot of people seem to have a real hard time acknowledging here. Anyway, I went about my business - Content that they'd never be available for someone like me that doesn't do ranked. 

Then this development happens a couple of years later 'Oh cool, they're gonna be made available to unranked players, sweet'. That's it - That's as far as the situation goes, mate. Of course if a stranger approached me on the streets and gave me the keys to a brand new sports car I'd say I did nothing to deserve it - But of course I'm not gonna turn down a free sports car. It's cool, that's it. I don't know what y'all are expecting? 

"Ew, keep those cool rewards away from me - I didn't earn them so I shouldn't want them ever"?

[septru]

29 minutes ago, IIHawkerII said:

Well, about two years ago I tried to get into ranked for the first time, I thought the rewards looked cool. Long story short, it sucked bigtime so I never went back. "Hey the rewards are cool, but they're behind ranked so I'll never get 'em. Ah well, too bad.' Afford your attention to the 'Ah well, too bad' part, that's me accepting the cost of said rewards, something that a lot of people seem to have a real hard time acknowledging here. Anyway, I went about my business - Content that they'd never be available for someone like me that doesn't do ranked. 

I think this is a great point. 

 

Some people never got into ranked because of the toxicity. Other people never got into ranked because they just got dominated. Either way it sucked. 

 

Both of these issues can be tied to a low population. The few people in ranked have been playing ranked for years. You're obviously not going to keep up with them, and they are obviously going to get angry when you inevitably fail. You're diving straight into the deep end of a pool without knowing how to swim. If there was a shallow end in the pool, it would be a lot easier to learn how to swim. If there were more players your skill level, you wouldn't get dominated and it wouldn't be so toxic.

 

This is the saddest part about 7.2. Combining the regs and ranked ques would create the necessary population to make ranked suck less. It would eliminate toxicity, create an even playing field for new players, and reduce the barriers to compete and improve. Moreover, allowing people to filter arenas provides a specific way to practice for ranked. 7.2 would have solved a lot of these problems. But instead BioWare removed ranked. They repurposed hard to earn ranked rewards as participation rewards. And they removed all incentive to compete or improve. 

 

BioWare saw tons of players drowning in the deep end of the pool. But instead of building a shallow end to help them learn how to swim. They removed the deep end. They removed the challenge. I'm sorry for all the people that wanted to compete, and will never get that chance after 7.2. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by septru

[TheOverMind-]

Quote

 

1 hour ago, IIHawkerII said:

I don't know where you got 'Victory' from, it doesn't appear once in my post. 
If you slowed down for even a wee little moment there, you'd realize 'should' never factored into the equation at all. I don't deserve diddly here and I'm not asking for diddly. So what is happening? You might ask - Well, about two years ago I tried to get into ranked for the first time, I thought the rewards looked cool. Long story short, it sucked bigtime so I never went back. "Hey the rewards are cool, but they're behind ranked so I'll never get 'em. Ah well, too bad.' Afford your attention to the 'Ah well, too bad' part, that's me accepting the cost of said rewards, something that a lot of people seem to have a real hard time acknowledging here. Anyway, I went about my business - Content that they'd never be available for someone like me that doesn't do ranked.

Then this development happens a couple of years later 'Oh cool, they're gonna be made available to unranked players, sweet'. That's it - That's as far as the situation goes, mate. Of course if a stranger approached me on the streets and gave me the keys to a brand new sports car I'd say I did nothing to deserve it - But of course I'm not gonna turn down a free sports car. It's cool, that's it. I don't know what y'all are expecting? 

"Ew, keep those cool rewards away from me - I didn't earn them so I shouldn't want them ever"?

 

A win is a victory right? You preach a lot for your own interest without looking around. it's ok but don't be surprise if people yell at you somehow.

[IIHawkerII]

12 minutes ago, TheOverMind- said:

A win is a victory right? You preach a lot for your own interest without looking around. it's ok but don't be surprise if people yell at you somehow.

Yeah, but you put quotes around it, man. 
I'm not sure where you're getting preaching from either. 
I said I'm happy I'm being given the chance to get ranked rewards because they're cool. 
And people are acting like I'm supposed to turn my nose up at them out of solidarity or something. Or that I'm some no good filthy scrublord that moans and badgers on the forums all day asking for ranked to be removed. I don't get it. I gave up getting them, then Bioware said 'Hey, you can get them now'. That's cool for me. It sucks for you, again, I get it. But I've got two cents here, might as well throw them in. 

I'm sorry for what it's worth, if I'd grinded them out in ranked I'd be pissed too probably. 

[Narkny]

It was a shocking experience to listen to the recent 7.2 Game Update Livestream announcing the removal of Ranked PvP for the so-called "PvP Revamp". The reason behind it even stranger, and vague. As a returning player, and PvP player at that, I was eagerly awaiting to hear the announcement of the next PvP season, Season 15, among other news, only to be left with great disappointment.

From a business standpoint, it is a highly questionable decision to remove ranked, as ranked PvP already requires an active subscription. The decision to outright remove it and make unranked PvP entirely free-to-play will result in a large amount of players cancelling their current subscriptions both due to lack of interest and because subscriptions are no longer needed to play at all. I don't see how this can possibly be a good decision from a business standpoint. By keeping ranked you would still be earning money, a lot more than you spend investing in the game mode. Opening a new PvP season would also give you an influx of players returning to the game in order to participate in ranked. These would primarily be solo ranked players and would give you even more subscriptions for as long as the PvP season lasts. For the non-PvP players reading this post, the lack of income from these changes will affect you too, as less income equals less content in general.

Now, let's talk about the "encouraging positive play" aspect as mentioned in the livestream. Unwanted behavior can be found anywhere in the game, in any gametype as well, not only ranked PvP. There's a higher expectation towards players participating in ranked PvP of course, but that isn't to say there isn't in unranked PvP, MM Flashpoints and NiM Operations as well. As a matter of fact, bad behavior even frequently happens in PvE parts of the game as some people "don't want to waste time" in a lesser performing group, or get angry after not progressing in one.
As the current PvP changes stand, I can't believe for a second that these planned changes will improve the behavioral aspect in PvP. Quite the contrary actually, as now wins will count towards rewards and objective play in PvP becomes even more important. This will not improve behavior. Players will become angry that others are not trying to play the objective, as well as newcomers being frowned upon for not knowing what to do, or how to react/defend. Some players will ignore the objective and only hunt kills and dps numbers. These changes will also result in more players grouping up and forming premades in order to have more fun and also a winning advantage over the rest. A lot of players will not like this. By separating ranked and unranked PvP we didn't have as much of this problem. People may get upset when they lose, both in ranked and unranked PvP, but now you are increasing the frustration of a much larger playerbase as a result, in addition to bringing in unneeded rewards, instead of leaving things in an already structured, established and focused environment that used to be driven by PvP Seasons and rating for exclusive rewards.

To conclude this post, I will remind you that the planned changes will result in a lot less subscriptions, a considerable amount of players will leave the game over this and PvP will not be in a better place than it already was. The so-called "revamp" sounds more like a "removal", or "reduction" if you will. I did like the idea of adding the option of choosing between 4v4 or 8v8, but that should've been added in addition to, and not with the removal of ranked. Why not have it all at once together? That would yield much better results and gives a practice arena for 4v4 gameplay which can later be used for better performance in ranked and people would be happier. Now, that would've been a lot more like a "revamp", instead of what's currently planned. So, please, for the good of PvP and the game, don't remove Ranked PvP.

[Achnaattwo]

48 minutes ago, Narkny said:

As the current PvP changes stand, I can't believe for a second that these planned changes will improve the behavioral aspect in PvP

it won't

they're essentially moving the Major league into the PeeWee league, and telling themselves , this will work. Who ever came up with this idea, has never played in a team competitive environment. Has no understanding of it at all

[haplonious]

I think you are vastly over estimating how many people actually do PVP.  Same with Operations & Flashpoints. A vocal minority for these activities. I can sit in que for MM Flashpoints for hours. People do not want to be challenged, they just want everything story mode. The devs have the metrics. They know what they are going to do based on multiple factors one the of prime ones being win trading. PVP has sucked in this game since Beta. For some reason they just cannot get it right.

[ZUHFB]

2 hours ago, haplonious said:

I can sit in que for MM Flashpoints for hours. People do not want to be challenged,

it's more that people do not want to play with challenged people, that's why the queue is dead too