10 Year Celebration??? It's almost end of October and almost end of 2022 -- WHERE IS IT???

[lightningseven]

Title.  WHERE are all the "10 year celebration" things we were promised to have "all year long"?

the only thing we got was a LATE XPAC (and tiny, based on some people who played it).  And then a SUPER LATE R4 Anomaly Op....

............... and really NOTHING ELSE.

WHERE is the rest of the "10 year celebration"?  all the hype and vaunted hopes that were brought to us REALLY HAVE NOT MATERIALIZED INTO ANYTHING REAL or substantial............

Galactic Seasons 1,2,3 are hardly "10 year celebration" type things....... smh

2022 is almost over, here it is mid to late October.....  i have almost always been a paid subscriber and i feel kinda CHEATED.

WHERE IS THE REST of the "10 year celebration" things???

EDIT:  oh yeah we got new forums............. **twirls finger**

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by lightningseven

[lukeisjedi]

I'm fine with what we got. I liked the story content and there's plenty to keep me active.

[FlameYOL]

I wasn't expecting much anyway, I doubt they have the budget for it. All I expected was the anniversary up for a year, which is about what happened. 

[Xhuuyaa]

3 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

I wasn't expecting much anyway, I doubt they have the budget for it. 

 

Are you saying they had, 

* a budget to remake all classes in 7.0, something nobody asked for

* a budget to make again an whole new gearing system, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a new Charakter Design Interface, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a whole new shiny trailer, nobody asked for

but they had no budget for 10th anniversary? 

 

I think 7.0 was a big mistake (as everybody told them), they simply should have let things alone, as they were with 6.x and used the ressources for story content, crafting, cosmetics, cartel stuff, events, bugfixes and QoL changes. A year ago this game was in a much better place than it is right now after one year of "updates" and thats really sad. 

[lightningseven]

1 hour ago, Xhuuyaa said:

 

Are you saying they had, 

* a budget to remake all classes in 7.0, something nobody asked for

* a budget to make again an whole new gearing system, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a new Charakter Design Interface, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a whole new shiny trailer, nobody asked for

but they had no budget for 10th anniversary? 

 

I think 7.0 was a big mistake (as everybody told them), they simply should have let things alone, as they were with 6.x and used the ressources for story content, crafting, cosmetics, cartel stuff, events, bugfixes and QoL changes. A year ago this game was in a much better place than it is right now after one year of "updates" and thats really sad. 

you definitely DO see what i mean, then!!!!!

Seconded.

 

[FlameYOL]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:00 PM, Xhuuyaa said:

 

Are you saying they had, 

* a budget to remake all classes in 7.0, something nobody asked for

* a budget to make again an whole new gearing system, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a new Charakter Design Interface, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a whole new shiny trailer, nobody asked for

but they had no budget for 10th anniversary? 

 

I think 7.0 was a big mistake (as everybody told them), they simply should have let things alone, as they were with 6.x and used the ressources for story content, crafting, cosmetics, cartel stuff, events, bugfixes and QoL changes. A year ago this game was in a much better place than it is right now after one year of "updates" and thats really sad. 

You imply those things are as expensive as making heaps of content, plus the shiny new trailer is likely more of a marketing thing. Its unlikely the money that went into the trailer would've went into the game's development had the trailer not been made. And I'll disagree with 7.0 being a big mistake, I quite enjoy the new character creator as it allows me to have more freedom when creating new characters and the class overhaul has been one of my favorite things so far, I enjoy having a secondary class and the ability to switch some of my Jedi and Sith to the opposite faction's moveset, something I've been wanting to do for years. Gearing is still ridiculously easy to the point I have nothing to grind on the game outside of GS3, especially now with the mod vendor which was the one thing I was missing since I enjoy customizing my own builds. You're letting your anger and salt blind you to the realities of game development, its complicated, we could've had 7.0 been just content and no overhauls and we still wouldn't have that much content. And quite frankly SWTOR is outdated in several regards, some of the overhauls in 7.0 were desperately needed. 

[joshuadyal]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:00 PM, Xhuuyaa said:

 

Are you saying they had, 

* a budget to remake all classes in 7.0, something nobody asked for

* a budget to make again an whole new gearing system, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a new Charakter Design Interface, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a whole new shiny trailer, nobody asked for

but they had no budget for 10th anniversary? 

 

I think 7.0 was a big mistake (as everybody told them), they simply should have let things alone, as they were with 6.x and used the ressources for story content, crafting, cosmetics, cartel stuff, events, bugfixes and QoL changes. A year ago this game was in a much better place than it is right now after one year of "updates" and thats really sad. 

Indeed. They did spend plenty of money, just not really on any content that anyone actually wanted.

That said; the split between mechanical class and "origin story" has been pretty cool, and while I didn't ask for it, it is a genuine "surprise and delight" feature. Other than that, meh.

[lukeisjedi]

2 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

You imply those things are as expensive as making heaps of content, plus the shiny new trailer is likely more of a marketing thing. Its unlikely the money that went into the trailer would've went into the game's development had the trailer not been made. And I'll disagree with 7.0 being a big mistake, I quite enjoy the new character creator as it allows me to have more freedom when creating new characters and the class overhaul has been one of my favorite things so far, I enjoy having a secondary class and the ability to switch some of my Jedi and Sith to the opposite faction's moveset, something I've been wanting to do for years. Gearing is still ridiculously easy to the point I have nothing to grind on the game outside of GS3, especially now with the mod vendor which was the one thing I was missing since I enjoy customizing my own builds. You're letting your anger and salt blind you to the realities of game development, its complicated, we could've had 7.0 been just content and no overhauls and we still wouldn't have that much content. And quite frankly SWTOR is outdated in several regards, some of the overhauls in 7.0 were desperately needed. 

Agreed. I feel 7.0 was fine. I'd like story content more often but other than that I'm happy.

[Aghasett]

Can we just go back to 6.0 and call it a day? Please? 7.0 is.....

Month              Avg. Players    Gain      % Gain    Peak Players

Last 30 Days          3,419.1    -112.1       -3.17%       6,277
September 2022    3,531.1    -1,141.8    -24.43%     6,336
August 2022          4,672.9    -1,028.4    -18.04%     8,567
July 2022                5,701.3    -262.7       -4.41%      10,045

[juliushorst]

1 hour ago, Aghasett said:

Last 30 Days          3,419.1    -112.1       -3.17%       6,277

I must admit, I expected a decent increase with the season starting and I actually had some fun doing the objectives this week.

[StormForceDax]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:00 AM, Xhuuyaa said:

 

Are you saying they had, 

* a budget to remake all classes in 7.0, something nobody asked for

* a budget to make again an whole new gearing system, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a new Charakter Design Interface, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a whole new shiny trailer, nobody asked for

but they had no budget for 10th anniversary? 

 

I think 7.0 was a big mistake (as everybody told them), they simply should have let things alone, as they were with 6.x and used the ressources for story content, crafting, cosmetics, cartel stuff, events, bugfixes and QoL changes. A year ago this game was in a much better place than it is right now after one year of "updates" and thats really sad. 

Actually, various players did ask for everything on this list.

Please just stop pretending you represent and speak for everybody.

Don't have an issue if this is what you believe, but that does not in any way mean everyone else does. so just lose the "nobody ask for" all the time.

 

I happen to like the new trailer, more than the KotFE ones.

As for the topic at hand, the 10th anniversary to me is a little underwhelming, but only because BW made a big (at least as I interpreted it) song and dance about on the live stream.

[StormForceDax]

4 hours ago, Aghasett said:

Can we just go back to 6.0 and call it a day? Please? 7.0 is.....

Month              Avg. Players    Gain      % Gain    Peak Players

Last 30 Days          3,419.1    -112.1       -3.17%       6,277
September 2022    3,531.1    -1,141.8    -24.43%     6,336
August 2022          4,672.9    -1,028.4    -18.04%     8,567
July 2022                5,701.3    -262.7       -4.41%      10,045

Where are you getting these numbers from?

 

Let me guess Steam, Right?

 

So flawed, not accurate in any way as Stream players do not count everyone, only players who play on that platform. While I agree numbers are declining there, which is not surpriseing at all. Given the number of games available on Stream, it more of a shock the number are still so high.

[Jdast]

6 hours ago, StormForceDax said:

Where are you getting these numbers from?

 

Let me guess Steam, Right?

 

So flawed, not accurate in any way as Stream players do not count everyone, only players who play on that platform. While I agree numbers are declining there, which is not surpriseing at all. Given the number of games available on Stream, it more of a shock the number are still so high.

Let's consider the math for a moment. As I am typing this, there are just over 3,400 people playing (4 p.m. Western USA time) on Steam. This is across the entire planet and 5 servers. Assuming the Steam platform constitutes 20 percent of the playerbase, that would mean there are over 15,000 people playing right now. If you believe that, I invite you to come to my shop on Tatooine where I'm selling bags of sand at a great discount.

No one says Steam numbers are 100 percent accurate. Not one.  But to suggest it does not reflect an overall trend (hence the term, representative sampling), which you yourself seem to acknowledge, is to ignore reality. While there will be a natural decline of players after a major launch or content release, the raw numbers from Steam are grim, even reflecting a stunning 45 percent decline since the release of 7.1 in August.

Perhaps Xhuuyaa engaged in hyperbole when saying "no one" asked for the changes in 7.0 and Aghasett could have acknowledged some of the few QoL improvements from LotS, but to discount the numbers the way you do is naive, bordering on disingenuous. 

Your argument that, of course, Steam numbers would decline so dramatically because other games are on the platform makes zero sense. Why? Because it fails to account for variation over time. Lots of games were already on Steam when SWTOR launched there in July 2020. Put differently, the platform is irrelevant: If people want to play SWTOR, they will play SWTOR. I made the jump when it launched to make patching easier, as did many others. 

But I guarantee, setting aside statistical analysis, Bioware isn't pleased with the retention rate of Onslaught vs. LotS on Steam, even if you look at just the raw numbers and ignore representative sampling. 

Bioware's newly formulated team announced last July needs to do some damage control. I don't think SWTOR will die soon since it is, well, Star Wars. But I doubt many are going to consider the 10 year anniversary a smashing success, as you seem to acknowledge as well. Word of mouth matters. And right now, it's not good. Even if you did support the sweeping changes made in 7.0, it is highly questionable that it was executed well.

Dasty

Edited October 25, 2022 by Jdast
Clarity

[Aghasett]

2 hours ago, StormForceDax said:

Where are you getting these numbers from?

 

Let me guess Steam, Right?

 

So flawed, not accurate in any way as Stream players do not count everyone, only players who play on that platform. While I agree numbers are declining there, which is not surpriseing at all. Given the number of games available on Stream, it more of a shock the number are still so high.

 

What's so erroneous about what you're saying is that the Steam charts are actually a fantastic representation the game's overall player base. Statisticians typically can only dream of having such a huge sample to draw conclusions from. The trends in the charts dating back a year are so consistent and clear. And, come on, not to mention the obvious: Fleet is way, way, way more empty than it's been in years. PvP pops are drastically down. MM Flashpoint queues are an exercise in futility. The game is hemorrhaging players. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Aghasett

[eabevella]

People still pretend 7.0 isn't bad by claiming steamchart "doesn't count every single player" or "something something not representative enough?"

SWTOR 10th years anniversary is like claiming to have a big romantic dinner planned for your 10th marriage anniversary, but ended up taking your spouse to Mc'Donald, knowing that your spouse would pick anything but fast food given the chance. Oh, and your car broke down because you never do routine maintenance so you're at Mc'Donald at 11:30PM* all the while empty stomached lmao

*Not sure the opening time of Mc'Donalds in the US but ours usually opened till 00:00.

Edited October 25, 2022 by eabevella

[Achnaattwo]

3 hours ago, eabevella said:

SWTOR 10th years anniversary is like claiming to have a big romantic dinner planned for your 10th marriage anniversary, but ended up taking your spouse to Mc'Donald

That's kinda what it felt to me, but the soda was free, tho it was a small and more ice then soda 🍔🍟🥤

[MishaCantu]

10th anniversary was overhyped and underdelivered, but did they really say what they were delivering? Some outfitter updates, the addition of a second class for the characters, a new operation, level increase, a bit of story, new character creation screen, preview screen (that still doesn't work right), and a grind for more gear. The forum updates came out of the blue, the new launcher came out of the blue, some of the balancing changes came out of the blue.  And here we are. Maybe great things are yet to come, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Darthmoriquendi]

31 minutes ago, MishaCantu said:

10th anniversary was overhyped and underdelivered, but did they really say what they were delivering? Some outfitter updates, the addition of a second class for the characters, a new operation, level increase, a bit of story, new character creation screen, preview screen (that still doesn't work right), and a grind for more gear. The forum updates came out of the blue, the new launcher came out of the blue, some of the balancing changes came out of the blue.  And here we are. Maybe great things are yet to come, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm with you on this. Some of this was unnecessary and never asked for. 10th anniversary was Two hours of story, bug fixes and more bug fixes, gear, UI, Outfitter and Second class was wanted, more bug fixes, manaan dailies, a bugged operation and still is. More and more bugs. And of course tons of nerfs. Well the list could go on.

I would have loved to see a graphics overhaul, crafting fixed(hopefully with 7.2), and more story. This tiny update with Manaan and Ruins of Nul is just not enough for a whole year. Makes me really miss the chapter releases of Kotfe/Kotet a lot.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Darthmoriquendi

[Xhuuyaa]

 

20 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

 And I'll disagree with 7.0 being a big mistake, I quite enjoy the new character creator as it allows me to have more freedom when creating new characters and the class overhaul has been one of my favorite things so far, I enjoy having a secondary class and the ability to switch some of my Jedi and Sith to the opposite faction's moveset, something I've been wanting to do for years. 

 

I'm glad you enjoy it. But to be honest...  I've never quite understood the appeal, making a Jedi and than playing like a Sith. Why do this, if you can play a Sith right from the start? Sure, you can say: Its for the role play, my Jedi is a bad mf. But doesnt this break the immersion even more, since nowadys most of the Sages on Tython are Sorcs from the get go? I think its a bit silly, but yeah, thats just my opinion. 

But to swap a Jedi/Sith character to the mirror class animation/skillset was never such hard thing to do. They could have done such animation swap for years and without coming up with „combat styles“.  There were other skills in your skillbar that get replaced if you reach some level. So if you reach dark/light V –  your skills get replaced by the dark/light side mirror, no big deal. 
 

 

20 hours ago, FlameYOL said:

And quite frankly SWTOR is outdated in several regards, some of the overhauls in 7.0 were desperately needed. 

 

* Class Changes 
The whole „ability pruning“ to make things more simple for players is... a bit misleading. If you look  what they have done, you'll see: they merged abilities (often with strange choices). So you have now abilities where the discription reads longer than Jar Jars Memoirs. They „pruned“ mostly defs and stuns, some aggro reduces – ironically mostly skills new players understand and used first.  And even worse: Many old regular skills are now choices. More experienced players can switch them, if some content requieres it. New players won't do this, because they are lacking knowledge about content. 

So why was it done anyway? To make it easier for the Devs to balance new PvE content. But since this boils down to one Ops and maybe one FP a year, it would have been far better to do the balancing with the old classes for 2 PvE things, than making all 8 classes new and than rebalancing them over the next years. 

 

* Second Combat Style
sure, its a nice to have. But most players who played a year or more, already had every class. So the second combat style effectivly „doubled“ the classes they already had or making half of their chars obsolete. Since log out/in to another class wasn't such a hard thing to do – what exactly made it worth all the time  making this? 

 

* Gear Changes
I can't really recall anyone who wanted a setback to some kind of convoluted messed up 1.0 gearing. Gearing now is unnecessary complicated, not very accessable, grindy and dull (Nefra farming).  And yes, It's not so hard to see, that the Devs feared the damage would be to high at Level 80. 
But instead creating new weak gear, there would have been other options: reduce overall damage, reduce armor, increase def cds, drop class buffs. All this would have done the job much better and faster than a complete new gearing system. They could come up for lvl 80 with nothing else than a new generation of augments. 
And even if you disagree here –  you have to explain why it was neccessary/better to create again a whole new gearing system instead of using the already existing. 

 

* Character Creator & Trailer
To be honest; I like both... BUT... how often did I see the new Trailer? 5 times? 10 times? If so, its about an hour. And the Character Creator? If I would have made 40 new chars since 7.0 and would take for each of them 15 minutes time to create, it would have spent about 10 hours there... not so much time, don't you think? And for the record: the new character creator looks really good, but your character ingame will not live up to this. Long story short: Both features are nice eye candy, but the average player spent really less time there – so its highly questionable how much time and ressources should have been put on both. 
 

 

I dont see how any of this "overhauls" were really needed or making the game experience a better one. The two best looking ones (trailer/chracter creator) were features, where players rush usually through in ten minutes.

 

 

12 hours ago, StormForceDax said:

And quite frankly SWTOR is outdated in several regards, some of the overhauls in 7.0 were desperately needed. 

 

So let me rephrase;

Prior to 7.0 announcing I've seen nobody here on this forum asking for 
- a new character creator
- whole new gearing system again
- a new trailer
- a complete class redesign (in the form they have done it)

If you have seen such demands, or see  players opting for that as a high priority for 7.0, I would be glad to know where I can  find it...  maybe I will  understand some things done with 7.0 better. 

[OlBuzzard]

3 hours ago, Xhuuyaa said:

 

 

I'm glad you enjoy it. But to be honest...  I've never quite understood the appeal, making a Jedi and than playing like a Sith. Why do this, if you can play a Sith right from the start? Sure, you can say: Its for the role play, my Jedi is a bad mf. But doesnt this break the immersion even more, since nowadys most of the Sages on Tython are Sorcs from the get go? I think its a bit silly, but yeah, thats just my opinion. 

But to swap a Jedi/Sith character to the mirror class animation/skillset was never such hard thing to do. They could have done such animation swap for years and without coming up with „combat styles“.  There were other skills in your skillbar that get replaced if you reach some level. So if you reach dark/light V –  your skills get replaced by the dark/light side mirror, no big deal. 
 

 

 

* Class Changes 
The whole „ability pruning“ to make things more simple for players is... a bit misleading. If you look  what they have done, you'll see: they merged abilities (often with strange choices). So you have now abilities where the discription reads longer than Jar Jars Memoirs. They „pruned“ mostly defs and stuns, some aggro reduces – ironically mostly skills new players understand and used first.  And even worse: Many old regular skills are now choices. More experienced players can switch them, if some content requieres it. New players won't do this, because they are lacking knowledge about content. 

So why was it done anyway? To make it easier for the Devs to balance new PvE content. But since this boils down to one Ops and maybe one FP a year, it would have been far better to do the balancing with the old classes for 2 PvE things, than making all 8 classes new and than rebalancing them over the next years. 

 

* Second Combat Style
sure, its a nice to have. But most players who played a year or more, already had every class. So the second combat style effectivly „doubled“ the classes they already had or making half of their chars obsolete. Since log out/in to another class wasn't such a hard thing to do – what exactly made it worth all the time  making this? 

 

* Gear Changes
I can't really recall anyone who wanted a setback to some kind of convoluted messed up 1.0 gearing. Gearing now is unnecessary complicated, not very accessable, grindy and dull (Nefra farming).  And yes, It's not so hard to see, that the Devs feared the damage would be to high at Level 80. 
But instead creating new weak gear, there would have been other options: reduce overall damage, reduce armor, increase def cds, drop class buffs. All this would have done the job much better and faster than a complete new gearing system. They could come up for lvl 80 with nothing else than a new generation of augments. 
And even if you disagree here –  you have to explain why it was neccessary/better to create again a whole new gearing system instead of using the already existing. 

 

* Character Creator & Trailer
To be honest; I like both... BUT... how often did I see the new Trailer? 5 times? 10 times? If so, its about an hour. And the Character Creator? If I would have made 40 new chars since 7.0 and would take for each of them 15 minutes time to create, it would have spent about 10 hours there... not so much time, don't you think? And for the record: the new character creator looks really good, but your character ingame will not live up to this. Long story short: Both features are nice eye candy, but the average player spent really less time there – so its highly questionable how much time and ressources should have been put on both. 
 

 

I dont see how any of this "overhauls" were really needed or making the game experience a better one. The two best looking ones (trailer/chracter creator) were features, where players rush usually through in ten minutes.

 

 

 

 

So let me rephrase;

Prior to 7.0 announcing I've seen nobody here on this forum asking for 
- a new character creator
- whole new gearing system again
- a new trailer
- a complete class redesign (in the form they have done it)

If you have seen such demands, or see  players opting for that as a high priority for 7.0, I would be glad to know where I can  find it...  maybe I will  understand some things done with 7.0 better. 

Well thought out and well written!

Excellent!!

[FlameYOL]

3 hours ago, Xhuuyaa said:

 

 

I'm glad you enjoy it. But to be honest...  I've never quite understood the appeal, making a Jedi and than playing like a Sith. Why do this, if you can play a Sith right from the start? Sure, you can say: Its for the role play, my Jedi is a bad mf. But doesnt this break the immersion even more, since nowadys most of the Sages on Tython are Sorcs from the get go? I think its a bit silly, but yeah, thats just my opinion. 

But to swap a Jedi/Sith character to the mirror class animation/skillset was never such hard thing to do. They could have done such animation swap for years and without coming up with „combat styles“.  There were other skills in your skillbar that get replaced if you reach some level. So if you reach dark/light V –  your skills get replaced by the dark/light side mirror, no big deal. 
 

 

 

* Class Changes 
The whole „ability pruning“ to make things more simple for players is... a bit misleading. If you look  what they have done, you'll see: they merged abilities (often with strange choices). So you have now abilities where the discription reads longer than Jar Jars Memoirs. They „pruned“ mostly defs and stuns, some aggro reduces – ironically mostly skills new players understand and used first.  And even worse: Many old regular skills are now choices. More experienced players can switch them, if some content requieres it. New players won't do this, because they are lacking knowledge about content. 

So why was it done anyway? To make it easier for the Devs to balance new PvE content. But since this boils down to one Ops and maybe one FP a year, it would have been far better to do the balancing with the old classes for 2 PvE things, than making all 8 classes new and than rebalancing them over the next years. 

 

* Second Combat Style
sure, its a nice to have. But most players who played a year or more, already had every class. So the second combat style effectivly „doubled“ the classes they already had or making half of their chars obsolete. Since log out/in to another class wasn't such a hard thing to do – what exactly made it worth all the time  making this? 

 

* Gear Changes
I can't really recall anyone who wanted a setback to some kind of convoluted messed up 1.0 gearing. Gearing now is unnecessary complicated, not very accessable, grindy and dull (Nefra farming).  And yes, It's not so hard to see, that the Devs feared the damage would be to high at Level 80. 
But instead creating new weak gear, there would have been other options: reduce overall damage, reduce armor, increase def cds, drop class buffs. All this would have done the job much better and faster than a complete new gearing system. They could come up for lvl 80 with nothing else than a new generation of augments. 
And even if you disagree here –  you have to explain why it was neccessary/better to create again a whole new gearing system instead of using the already existing. 

 

* Character Creator & Trailer
To be honest; I like both... BUT... how often did I see the new Trailer? 5 times? 10 times? If so, its about an hour. And the Character Creator? If I would have made 40 new chars since 7.0 and would take for each of them 15 minutes time to create, it would have spent about 10 hours there... not so much time, don't you think? And for the record: the new character creator looks really good, but your character ingame will not live up to this. Long story short: Both features are nice eye candy, but the average player spent really less time there – so its highly questionable how much time and ressources should have been put on both. 
 

 

I dont see how any of this "overhauls" were really needed or making the game experience a better one. The two best looking ones (trailer/chracter creator) were features, where players rush usually through in ten minutes.

 

 

 

 

So let me rephrase;

Prior to 7.0 announcing I've seen nobody here on this forum asking for 
- a new character creator
- whole new gearing system again
- a new trailer
- a complete class redesign (in the form they have done it)

If you have seen such demands, or see  players opting for that as a high priority for 7.0, I would be glad to know where I can  find it...  maybe I will  understand some things done with 7.0 better. 

For your first point I'll use my JK as an example. He didn't started out DS, he fell throughout the course of the class story. So I've wanted him to be using DS powers for years to better reflect his alignment. After all this is an roleplaying game, in KOTOR I wasn't restricted to using just using LS powers for my entire playthrough, I like having the choice not to do that here now. And I highly doubt it would've been a simple flip of a switch to enable the DS moveset if you've reached DS V, if it was that easy I think the devs most likely would've done it years ago. As for your second point, most of the classes I play don't feel handicapped by the ability pruning I'm still able to tank and dps without issue. As for your third point, that's a rather presumptous assumption on your part, I've been playing this game since 2013 and even I didn't had every character class, still don't. However with combat styles I am able to play some classes that I hadn't such as the Juggernaut, its also useful for characters who picked classes like marauders/sniper but may want to dabble in tanking or even healing in the tech's classes case. That way your character isn't restricted to just one single role, which again I quite enjoyed and took advantage of with my characters. 

Gearing is a bit complicated, because while there are a lot of people praising the horizontal gearing Bioware had been doing, there were also people who were vocally against it. They wanted the old systems of getting the best gear through ops again, and well they got their wish, sort of. Since the new system does allow you to get to higher Iratings without having to do NiM ops, or the latest OP, or even getting into multiplayer content at all. With the trailer I'll repeat myself, trailer is a marketing thing, its meant to attract players to play the expansion, nothing more and nothing less. We wouldn't have had more content in LOTS if the trailer hadn't been made, KOTFE/KOTET also had cinematic trailers, they're for marketing. The difference is the team had a much bigger budget with KOTFE/KOTET (though after KOTET we do get the content drough that has been getting worse and worse with each year). The character creator overhaul was most likely a necessity due to the changes in classes, the old UI just wouldn't have worked for how characters are created now. 

[OlBuzzard]

15 hours ago, Jdast said:

Let's consider the math for a moment. As I am typing this, there are just over 3,400 people playing (4 p.m. Western USA time) on Steam. This is across the entire planet and 5 servers. Assuming the Steam platform constitutes 20 percent of the playerbase, that would mean there are over 15,000 people playing right now. If you believe that, I invite you to come to my shop on Tatooine where I'm selling bags of sand at a great discount.

No one says Steam numbers are 100 percent accurate. Not one.  But to suggest it does not reflect an overall trend (hence the term, representative sampling), which you yourself seem to acknowledge, is to ignore reality. While there will be a natural decline of players after a major launch or content release, the raw numbers from Steam are grim, even reflecting a stunning 45 percent decline since the release of 7.1 in August.

Perhaps Xhuuyaa engaged in hyperbole when saying "no one" asked for the changes in 7.0 and Aghasett could have acknowledged some of the few QoL improvements from LotS, but to discount the numbers the way you do is naive, bordering on disingenuous. 

Your argument that, of course, Steam numbers would decline so dramatically because other games are on the platform makes zero sense. Why? Because it fails to account for variation over time. Lots of games were already on Steam when SWTOR launched there in July 2020. Put differently, the platform is irrelevant: If people want to play SWTOR, they will play SWTOR. I made the jump when it launched to make patching easier, as did many others. 

But I guarantee, setting aside statistical analysis, Bioware isn't pleased with the retention rate of Onslaught vs. LotS on Steam, even if you look at just the raw numbers and ignore representative sampling. 

Bioware's newly formulated team announced last July needs to do some damage control. I don't think SWTOR will die soon since it is, well, Star Wars. But I doubt many are going to consider the 10 year anniversary a smashing success, as you seem to acknowledge as well. Word of mouth matters. And right now, it's not good. Even if you did support the sweeping changes made in 7.0, it is highly questionable that it was executed well.

Dasty

IMO the whole matter of using Steam is simply a matter of having access to another group or audience that BW might not have previously.  IMO this was a great marketing tool and (overall) a great idea!

How stable are those numbers?  IMO this is something that will vary greatly from time to time.  Companies such as Steam provide a service (and one that benefits both the user and companies such as EA / BW).  That being said it's really difficult for most of us to really have a firm grip on the nomenclature of that player base.  Do many of them have a tendency to "float" from game to game ? (sorry ...  the best term I could think of right now.  I might edit later if a better one comes to mind).  IMO this is not necessarily a BAD thing.  BUT it could simply be something that is a characteristic of (at least a part of) those who use this sort of game provider. 

That being said ...  IMO the whole 10th anniversary thing simply fell flat to many of us (me included).  I expected a few changes.  That always seems to be the way of things in this sort of game.  I didn't expect what we got.  Someone else provided an excellent review over what we are seeing since 7.0  AND IMO we are NOT out of the woods yet.

SWTOR:  Hurting ...  yes!

SWTOR: dead ...  not yet!

SWTOR: Red flags waving ...  oh yeah!  You bet!  and IMO it's going to take a tad more than just a casual approach to move things forward in a more positive fashion right now!

SWTOR:  Impossible situation?  NO!  In spite of even some videos that have been produced on the subject I believe that even in the most difficult of circumstances there are always possibilities! 

[Nee-Elder]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:00 PM, Xhuuyaa said:

Are you saying they had, 

* a budget to remake all classes in 7.0, something nobody asked for

* a budget to make again an whole new gearing system, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a new Charakter Design Interface, nobody asked for

* a budget to make a whole new shiny trailer, nobody asked for

but they had no budget for 10th anniversary?

i have no idea  how/why  that ^ part of your post got a whopping  17 "likes" , but i'm guessing your guildmates/friends came to the rescue

Regardless,  that ^ part of your post is completely offbase and actually you (unintentionally) proved just the opposite point.  See because all those 4 things you mention  barely cost  ANYTHING (other than code hours, which is included within the paltry $alaries of current BW devs ) .   *The trailer was outsourced, so even if it did have a slight "budget" , it's irrelevant to the base game development and/or 10th Anniversary celebrations therein.

On 10/21/2022 at 4:00 PM, Xhuuyaa said:

I think 7.0 was a big mistake (as everybody told them), they simply should have let things alone, as they were with 6.x and used the ressources for story content, crafting, cosmetics, cartel stuff, events, bugfixes and QoL changes.

However, i totally agree with that ^  part of your post.  (Obvious though that it is---well, obvious to everyone  except  BioWare  )

Upcoming  7.2 should be....interesting.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Nee-Elder

[OlBuzzard]

11 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

i have no idea  how/why  that ^ part of your post got a whopping  15 "likes" , but i'm guessing your guildmates/friends came to the rescue

Regardless,  that ^ part of your post is completely offbase and actually you (unintentionally) proved just the opposite point.  See because all those 4 things you mention  barely cost  ANYTHING (other than code hours, which is included within the paltry $alaries of current BW devs ) .   *The trailer was outsourced, so even if it did have a slight "budget" , it's irrelevant to the base game development and/or 10th Anniversary celebrations therein.

[/snip]

One of those "likes" came from me (today).  I have no idea who the poster (Xhuuyaa) really is!  They simply are correct!

Cost of goods (in this case finished product of production) is considerably different than you apparently perceive.  Even if the item in question is outsourced, there is still a considerable cost involved.  In this instance the company chosen for the outsourced cinema was no doubt better equipped to do the task with less expense and a better finished product if done in house.  

There are a number of different things that run up the cost of production.  I am only acquainted with a small part of that entire task. Regardless of whether or not we like (or dislike) what was released there is a great deal more cost than either of us know for a certainty.  

IMO:  There was (past tense) a golden opportunity for a lot of fun and celebration for the 10th Anniversary.  IMO that is something that should have been in the works for MONTHS (if not years).  Regardless, that opportunity is gone.  It will not return.  I also believe that the second half of the statement (the part to which you also agree) is ALSO VERY accurate.  A LOT of people would have preferred to see:

** BUGS fixed!!!

** Additional story content

** Some new challenging areas for PvE (only more of what we got)

** A better working approach to the level scaling situation

** MAYBE a new SH (or perhaps even two)

** More interactions with a favored companion (perhaps even some that are repeatable)

** A return to crafting (with an actual purpose besides making billions of credits)

** New CC items 

** AND PERHAPS the early stages of some of the things we see in 7.1

It should be noted that my list is exactly that ...  my list.  I'm quite certain that there are many others with a more comprehensive list which (in some cases) would even reflect items of a higher priority.  

That said:  IMO the concept of a super fun 10th anniversary celebration is now past.  It's time to move on! Hopefully we can all learn from this experience (and the many unpleasant side effects we've seen) and do better in the near future!  (At least ... that is my personal hope).

 

[Nee-Elder]

50 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

One of those "likes" came from me (today).  I have no idea who the poster really is!  They simply are correct!

Cost of goods (in this case finished product of production) is considerably different than you apparently perceive.  Even if the item in question is outsourced, there is still a considerable cost involved.  In this instance the company chosen for the outsourced cinema was no doubt better equipped to do the task with less expense and a better finished product if done in house.  

There are a number of different things that run up the cost of production.  I am only acquainted with a small part of that entire task.

'They' now have me to thank, since  it's up to  *17 going on 18 likes* now.

Anyways, i don't know how to say this without sounding condescending ( in typed words without tone ) but:  As a former dev (QA & coder) on another SW MMO, i'm a bit more familiar with general costs (both in monetary budget and in tertiary coding)  and i can assure you 'They' were indeed NOT correct in their original listed 4 points.  In fact  it's just the opposite.

The very reason BioWare is unable to provide the level of real expansion  in the truest sense of the word (see ESO in contrast) as they did with say KOTET/KOTFE , for example,  is because of their lack of budget & staff currently.

Consequently, look at what they (BioWare) focuses on instead: 

• Re-skins (Cartel Market redundancy) ,
• Retreads ( Galactic Seasons hamster-wheel of existing content repeating) ,
• Re-grinds (changing  'gearing'  & stats  again....and again...and again)  ,
• QoL adjustments ( outfitter tab ) ,
• and last but certainly least in their budget book is: STORY ( minimal, at best, even if you count 'R-4 op' , Manaan daily area, & new FP ) .

No GSF.  No EVENTS like DvL.  No PUBLIC promotions.  No SW brand TV tie-ins.  Hence why  "10th Anniversary" feels so practically non-existent.  Regardless, none of those ^ 5 things i listed cost extravagant amounts of  $$$ money to be allocuted extra.

It's actually  understandable and sorta admirable tbqh , considering  the way EA treats  SWTOR ,  at how much BioWare has done with so little.

What's  truly baffling though, imo,  is how many players  have blinders on. ( case-in-point: 17+ "likes" for incorrect assessment )

There is nothing wrong with recognizing the harsh reality of SWTOR being on it's last budgetary legs,  yet still enjoying it for what it is....AND wishing it could be more....whilst accepting what else it won't ever be again.   After all,  'acceptance' is one of the 1st steps to saying goodbye and to quote the late great HAN SOLO: i have a baaaaadd feeling about 2023-2024 year when EA's license expires.

I hope i'm wrong though, cuz i sure don't see  SWG-2 anywhere on the horizon.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Nee-Elder
Reason: not really BioWare's fault , since they answer to EA/Disney