Kieth, the population is going lower than Pre7.0

[Totemdancer]

Doesn’t look like player numbers are stabilising, not even after Keith’s Post. The 1, 2, 3, 6 month trend graphs show it’s still heading downward. The game will be lucky to have as many players by March 15 as we had in November last year.

When will BioWare learn that doubling down on poor choices is the wrong way to stop players leaving.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Totemdancer

[assatrap]

seems to be a recurring theme & pattern in EA games. Just look at battlefield 2042 from what many thought to be the most anticipated game of the year to to a complete fiasco. Why?

 

because the DEVS (OR EA) ALWAYS HAVE TO REINVENT THE WEEL for some reason. Always over and over again. Every new major content = reinvent the wheel. Alienate, exhaust and confuse their small remaining loyal customer base each time they do it. And proudly refuse and neglect any player feedback ofc because that dont fit their vision.

 

On top of the take away some of the most enjoyable game play features because they have a need to reinvent the wheel and they think know what the player base wants (by listening to playerfeedback ofc smh).

 

Instead of gathering player feedback and improving the core gameplay which everyone enjoys = too much work. Spreadsheets says something else = just reinvent the wheel.

Edited March 9, 2022 by assatrap

[Syal]

They just have to roll back 6.0, keep the story, flashpoint, eventually the second role, 50k conquest.

 

6.0 was just fine. New end game content was enough.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Syal

[mike_carton]

They just have to roll back 6.0, keep the story, flashpoint, eventually the second role, 50k conquest.

 

6.0 was just fine. New end game content was enough.

 

Yeah. This, pretty much. While they're at it, they should explore how to remove all the existing limits and restrictions and requirements on the second combat style. Any character should be able to choose a second style of their type (force or tech) at any time in the life of the legacy. (Without having to complete Ch 3, or some other requirement.)

 

- Revert to the last back up of 6.x

- We'll play it; BW takes their time doing the following to 6.x

- Add story and FP

- Add Combat Styles and Loadouts

- Add weapons oufitter

- Add a legacy-wide storage for Loadout gear for all characters; this storage to be used automatically when needed. Add a button to unequip a character directly to this storage (all gear pieces with 1 button push)

- Go from here to the R-4 Op and so on.

- We'll never mention 7.0 again or remember its UI changes, Conquest changes and so on

Edited March 9, 2022 by mike_carton

[Toraak]

They just have to roll back 6.0, keep the story, flashpoint, eventually the second role, 50k conquest.

 

6.0 was just fine. New end game content was enough.

 

No they needed to do something with the gearing. Not necessarily this, but something had to be done with the RNG mess that was 6.0's gearing system. Getting correct mods and enhancements was truly ****.

 

Now if they just reduced the number of Mods/enhancements from 20 variations down to 3. (Example: Lethal mod, Lethal A mod, and Lethal B mod), and have 1 of each enhancement that may have been a better idea. But something definitely needed to change.

 

They should have put in a mod Vendor for 320-330 as well once we got up to certain ilevel thresholds.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Toraak

[Galbsadi]

No they needed to do something with the gearing. Not necessarily this, but something had to be done with the RNG mess that was 6.0's gearing system. Getting correct mods and enhancements was truly ****.

 

Now if they just reduced the number of Mods/enhancements from 20 variations down to 3. (Example: Lethal mod, Lethal A mod, and Lethal B mod), and have 1 of each enhancement that may have been a better idea. But something definitely needed to change.

 

They should have put in a mod Vendor for 320-330 as well once we got up to certain ilevel thresholds.

 

In all fairness, it's a bold assumption to assume that the 20 mods and RNG issue won't still be an issue for NiM raiders when/if iRating 334 eventually comes out.

[Toraak]

In all fairness, it's a bold assumption to assume that the 20 mods and RNG issue won't still be an issue for NiM raiders when/if iRating 334 eventually comes out.

 

True. Depends on how BW does the mods and enhancements. They did say they wanted to cut down on the RNG tho when they discussed this gearing system originally however.

[eabevella]

Well, if it's up to me, I'll just:

 

Make actual 2 hour stories and a clear announcement that this is just the "teaser" and more contents will be dropping in, for example, May, August and November. Yeah, maybe the overall story expansion will still be small but at least it's not empty promises. PS: the cut scenes of the Manaan story is only 34 long in total.

 

Improve 6.0 gear system. Less variety of mods. Give meaningful distinguish between different type of builds.

 

Keep Combat Style. It's the only good thing in 7.0.

 

Make 2 new Combat Styles. One for Jedi/Sith. One for Tech users. Can you imagine the excitement? Something that's in every definition NEW in the 10th anniversary? The number of players that will come back just to try this out? It will absolutely please both solo and group players. New roles to RP. New skills to try in PvP and OPs. Yay?

 

And not all those seemly complicate but meaningless "change".

[Totemdancer]

No they needed to do something with the gearing. Not necessarily this, but something had to be done with the RNG mess that was 6.0's gearing system. Getting correct mods and enhancements was truly ****.

 

Now if they just reduced the number of Mods/enhancements from 20 variations down to 3. (Example: Lethal mod, Lethal A mod, and Lethal B mod), and have 1 of each enhancement that may have been a better idea. But something definitely needed to change.

 

They should have put in a mod Vendor for 320-330 as well once we got up to certain ilevel thresholds.

 

Yep, that’s all they needed to do to make the 6.0 gear system work. They were told as much for on the 6.0 PTS and for the 2 years until they got to 7.0. But instead of reducing the RNG by removing a heap of useless ****, they reinvented the wheel again.

[GeneralGyro]

this is the worst expansion in this games history. ofc people are dropping like flies.

[Ghost_Spectre]

They just have to roll back 6.0, keep the story, flashpoint, eventually the second role, 50k conquest.

 

6.0 was just fine. New end game content was enough.

 

That's what they should do to resolve this unbelievable fiasco they have on their hands. However, according to Keith's post and "insight," this is their future vision for the game. They are staying the course. However, they will either learn the folly of doing so, like Coca-Cola did with their "new Coke," or they will be out of a job, like the original developers because of update 1.2.

 

However, I agree with you completely for reverting back and what to keep, including load-outs. What they have now is compete and utter disaster as bad as what happened to SWG with NGE.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Ghost_Spectre

[Twelfthdoctor]

I kind of doubt that there is really a difference between 'Steam Players' and the general population. In most of the reddit polls I've seen on the SWTOR sub (probably more representative of the overall game population than the subscriber-only, proprietary forums here off on their own), around half of players are using the Steam launcher, and there is a difference between folks using Steam's launcher and people introduced to the game through Steam.

 

A fair number, myself included, use the Steam launcher because it pre-downloads patches, patches much faster than the original launcher, and comes without BitRaider, and no file-diving required to remove it and the various bugs associated with it. I've been playing since 2012, mostly preferred. I sub for access to major expansions, then let it drop after two months, which gives me time to do Seasons and buy up whatever I need before my credits get locked up again. For that reason, I don't usually have posting access to the forums, but I do read them a decent bit, mostly the DevTracker and PTS/ update related posts to keep informed and prepared.

 

To the main point of this thread, a big spike and a drop-off are to be expected in an expansion launch week, but the next few weeks will probably tell a more full pictures as to whether the downward trend continues or flattens out, with the advertisement-driven and short term story-only players done, and the population going back to the already-invested and potential new long-term players. As players get fully geared, the urge to grind will likely drop off as well, and they might not all log on every day any more. week-to-week number averages will be the numbers to look for.

[Darkbloom]

I kind of doubt that there is really a difference between 'Steam Players' and the general population. In most of the reddit polls I've seen on the SWTOR sub (probably more representative of the overall game population than the subscriber-only, proprietary forums here off on their own), around half of players are using the Steam launcher, and there is a difference between folks using Steam's launcher and people introduced to the game through Steam.

 

A fair number, myself included, use the Steam launcher because it pre-downloads patches, patches much faster than the original launcher, and comes without BitRaider, and no file-diving required to remove it and the various bugs associated with it. I've been playing since 2012, mostly preferred. I sub for access to major expansions, then let it drop after two months, which gives me time to do Seasons and buy up whatever I need before my credits get locked up again. For that reason, I don't usually have posting access to the forums, but I do read them a decent bit, mostly the DevTracker and PTS/ update related posts to keep informed and prepared.

 

To the main point of this thread, a big spike and a drop-off are to be expected in an expansion launch week, but the next few weeks will probably tell a more full pictures as to whether the downward trend continues or flattens out, with the advertisement-driven and short term story-only players done, and the population going back to the already-invested and potential new long-term players. As players get fully geared, the urge to grind will likely drop off as well, and they might not all log on every day any more. week-to-week number averages will be the numbers to look for.

 

This seems right to me.

 

I use the Steam launcher only because it seems avoid bugs that the game's regular launcher suffers from. And when I look at the Steam numbers, it's too early to tell whether the numbers are dropping or whether they are flattening out.

[Ghost_Spectre]

This seems right to me.

 

I use the Steam launcher only because it seems avoid bugs that the game's regular launcher suffers from. And when I look at the Steam numbers, it's too early to tell whether the numbers are dropping or whether they are flattening out.

 

If this was the first update, I'd tend to agree. However, it is not. BW/EA are looking at these numbers (from Steam and their own). You can bet they are comparing them to the past updates for analysis. They are concerned, very much so. Today we have posts from Keith and Chris. And changes been made to the FPs/Queuing system as a results. Changes aimed at correcting issues that a large portion of the players have raised issues over, rather heatedly so. Remember, we do not have access to BW's own metrics that we have with Steam. One cannot simply rule out there isn't a problem. There is and they are working to stop the hemorrhaging.

 

And they've inferred at others too. If they were not concerned, we would not be seeing these posts nor the frequency of them. They did the same thing with 6.0 in back tracking changes they tried. They are doing the same thing again because of their lost revenue from subscribers and their numbers have shown them they have a problem that must be fixed and quickly.

[JattaGin]

You can bet they are comparing them to the past updates for analysis. They are concerned, very much so. Today we have posts from Keith and Chris. And changes been made to the FPs/Queuing system as a results. Changes aimed at correcting issues that a large portion of the players have raised issues over, rather heatedly so. Remember, we do not have access to BW's own metrics that we have with Steam. One cannot simply rule out there isn't a problem. There is and they are working to stop the hemorrhaging.

 

Exactly ^^this. We're witnessing panicked DAMAGE CONTROL in full effect. We all know that the METRICS is what they care about. And only if their metrics show something is wrong, they act. If Mr. Kanneg and Mr. Schmidt both post something here on the same day, it means that they are snowed under.

Edited March 10, 2022 by JattaGin

[Darkbloom]

If this was the first update, I'd tend to agree. However, it is not. BW/EA are looking at these numbers (from Steam and their own). You can bet they are comparing them to the past updates for analysis. They are concerned, very much so. Today we have posts from Keith and Chris. And changes been made to the FPs/Queuing system as a results. Changes aimed at correcting issues that a large portion of the players have raised issues over, rather heatedly so. Remember, we do not have access to BW's own metrics that we have with Steam. One cannot simply rule out there isn't a problem. There is and they are working to stop the hemorrhaging.

 

And they've inferred at others too. If they were not concerned, we would not be seeing these posts nor the frequency of them. They did the same thing with 6.0 in back tracking changes they tried. They are doing the same thing again because of their lost revenue from subscribers and their numbers have shown them they have a problem that must be fixed and quickly.

 

I'm not sure why you replied to my post. You are talking about something that is very interesting to you but not, perhaps, very interesting to me.

 

Anyway, I was talking about numbers. And this is a fact, not an opinion. Looking at the numbers, there is no way to tell whether player activity is dropping, or whether it is leveling off to the exact same trend line it was at during most of 6.0. You will need a lot more data to come to a conclusion about that.

[Muckbeast]

Well, if it's up to me, I'll just:

 

Make actual 2 hour stories and a clear announcement that this is just the "teaser" and more contents will be dropping in, for example, May, August and November. Yeah, maybe the overall story expansion will still be small but at least it's not empty promises. PS: the cut scenes of the Manaan story is only 34 long in total.

 

Improve 6.0 gear system. Less variety of mods. Give meaningful distinguish between different type of builds.

 

Keep Combat Style. It's the only good thing in 7.0.

 

Make 2 new Combat Styles. One for Jedi/Sith. One for Tech users. Can you imagine the excitement? Something that's in every definition NEW in the 10th anniversary? The number of players that will come back just to try this out? It will absolutely please both solo and group players. New roles to RP. New skills to try in PvP and OPs. Yay?

 

And not all those seemly complicate but meaningless "change".

 

Wait...

 

You mean ADD content via an expansion instead of taking it away? What a concept!

[ExarSun]

That's what they should do to resolve this unbelievable fiasco they have on their hands. However, according to Keith's post and "insight," this is their future vision for the game. They are staying the course. However, they will either learn the folly of doing so, like Coca-Cola did with their "new Coke," or they will be out of a job, like the original developers because of update 1.2.

 

However, I agree with you completely for reverting back and what to keep, including load-outs. What they have now is compete and utter disaster as bad as what happened to SWG with NGE.

 

I sure hope your prediction comes true. This fiasco must end.

They can take combat styles with them as well, IMO they are bad, badly implemented , TTK has gone up not down- LOL, PvP is a total mess, my favourite classes feel like a joke.

 

LOL at the players who think there isnt a drop in the playerbase....

Edited March 11, 2022 by ExarSun

[Ghost_Spectre]

I'm not sure why you replied to my post. You are talking about something that is very interesting to you but not, perhaps, very interesting to me.

 

Anyway, I was talking about numbers. And this is a fact, not an opinion. Looking at the numbers, there is no way to tell whether player activity is dropping, or whether it is leveling off to the exact same trend line it was at during most of 6.0. You will need a lot more data to come to a conclusion about that.

 

I replied to you to tell you that the numbers are showing a downward trend. Right now, Steam numbers show it dipping lower than what it was before the update. It was a massive 44% drop in 20 days after 7.0 released. It fluctuates up a bit but trends down in response, more than it went up.

 

Trend analysis is skill I had to learn obtaining my MBA in Operations Management, among other things. I see this downward trend without having to crunch numbers (IE using an XL spreadsheet inputting the numbers to see how the look on a flow chart). Steam's metric chart has that available. From this chart tool, you can literally project what the future will look like based on the last 30 days based on the current trend showing. Even more so when you do a 3 month trend analysis.

 

You can bet, BW has already done a trend analysis and what they see is not good at all. So yes, the numbers are dropping and BW is very concerned as is EA. This means lost revenue, short-term, more importantly, long-term revenue, the primary source of their financial stability, is not showing a good outlook going forward.

[eabevella]

Wait...

 

You mean ADD content via an expansion instead of taking it away? What a concept!

 

I know right, where's my Nobel Prize