Whelp a sad state of GF this week for MM FP's:

[ChrisCap]

A Traitor Among The Chiss

The Nathema Conspiracy

Spirit of Vengeance

Ruins of Nul

 

4/9 dungeons are absolutely unplayable

 

Just got done failing Nathema final boss for over an hour with a full ilev 326 group. The damage output compared to the healing is undoable and BioWare doesn't seem to care. This whole patch and gear changing only to limit the pool of ppl willing to gear not to mention the level 80 hike on all dungeons post SoR expansion are too hard. Not even HM KP was this difficult and I healed that in a full run with a mix of 322/324 gear. This is just uncalled for and I don't know if I'm willing to maintain a sub through 7.0

 

Before this patch I healed every MM multiple times over and now this feels like a struggle bus. What do I need 328/330 Rakata gear to heal MM now? Come on BioWare! Seriously, Last week a similar geared group I was in failed in Crisis on the Tank Boss due to massive 250k-280k hits on a single blast not to mention adds and AoE fire also 6m+ hp's. Nul is still unplayable, yet every FP Post SoR I was able to heal in MM with under a 326 ilev. Currently I'm fully geared in 326+ both implants at 330 and can't heal the final bosses on anything Post SoR in 7.0 except Conclave which is the only one that feels normal.

 

Limiting the players that would be able to do content all while no restrictions on the que so I can't tell you how many 250/286/306 geared 80's I see in MM and expect to be carried. Then you create the worst gearing progression in the game just to sell more CM items but don't even include the weapons in the dressing mode and in 7.1 you're gonna give the privilege of modded gear back to the hands of the top 1% who will have access.

 

I can't anymore, I try and try to support you guys but you change everything and test nothing. At least with WoW the devs that do make changes are the ones who have a sub and know the pain of the players first hand. I highly doubt none of you ever tested 7.0 and even when I was in the pts It was next to impossible to get a fully geared group to test FP's post SoR which in the current state are unplayable or undoable w/o cheesing certain mechanics.

 

All Post SoR Fp's need to rebalanced, HP's need to be reduced and damage output reduced. 250k hits from the Spider tank are un called for. Not even anything in HM EC or DP/DF hit that hard. Right now I use 3 Sorcs to heal and when I que into an unplayable FP I trade my gear to the next healer and reque. Is that what I have to do to enjoy 7.0?

 

End Rant

[eabevella]

I just got MM SoV.

I'm operative heal with blue hm op/mm fp 323 (a mixture of 322-326) gear.

Bask Sunn literally ONE SHOT me when I was at 100% HP.

I'm not exaggerate. He one shot me at full health which never happened in 6.0.

 

I can't heal MM Umbara final boss because my healing stat is way lower than in 6.0. I knew I can't heal it even before I saw the 250k random damage.

 

Not only do I heal less, my energy also burns WAY FASTER. I can't count the times I was at 0 energy because there were two burst heals in a short time-the same situation I had no problem managing my energy before.

 

This no-mod gears and lv80 "balancing" are broken as hell.

 

BTW I refuse to heal Copero and Nathema this week, thank you very much. The Copero second boss is already broken before, I don't want to see how much worse it is now.

[ChrisCap]

I just got MM SoV.

I'm operative heal with blue hm op/mm fp 323 (a mixture of 322-326) gear.

Bask Sunn literally ONE SHOT me when I was at 100% HP.

I'm not exaggerate. He one shot me at full health which never happened in 6.0.

 

I can't heal MM Umbara final boss because my healing stat is way lower than in 6.0. I knew I can't heal it even before I saw the 250k random damage.

 

Not only do I heal less, my energy also burns WAY FASTER. I can't count the times I was at 0 energy because there were two burst heals in a short time-the same situation I had no problem managing my energy before.

 

This no-mod gears and lv80 "balancing" are broken as hell.

 

BTW I refuse to heal Copero and Nathema this week, thank you very much. The Copero second boss is already broken before, I don't want to see how much worse it is now.

 

 

 

I hope more Healers like you come forward. This needs to be rebalanced and, BioWare has to address this sooner than later

[Eloi_BG]

Got to agree. Crisis on Umbara final boss right now is harder to heal than most MM operation bosses in 6.0.

[tuulem]

Not only for MM, also VM is horrible - these pop without a trinity.

 

So, this week, we have Athiss spam. FUN, maybe, but it gets a bit tedious after the first 5, 10, 20, 500 times people (including myself, sometimes) fail at the trash skip jump. Battle of Rishi gets into the mix if... IF you get a pop that's level appropriate. What's left? Copero, Nathema, SoV and Lost Island.

 

/sarcasm

Niiiiiice.

 

Ooops., my bad, we also have both Czerka FP's, more fun and high jinx for people who are- what? lvl 45? 50?

 

THIS IS NOT FUN!

 

Honestly guys, roll back the groupfinder stuff, at least for flashpoints. I'm betting that the majority of your playerbase is either confused AF or outright hates this "new and improved" way of doing it. I get it, you wanted to stop the Spammer Station and Stealth Reaper gearing runs, so just nerf the rewards from them at max lvl, or take them out of group finder. Do something, because the current iteration of group finder is frustrating at best.

 

No one is going to judge you for holding up your hands and saying "okay, we tried it, y'all hated it, we'll roll it back."

Edited March 2, 2022 by tuulem

[HypSpec]

Hopefully this is the reason my early MM FP experience has been so poor so far. My favorite things to do in this game is VM FPs, mainly because they are relatively quick and I like to help newer players as well as the randomness of the group make-ups - "how can I keep everyone alive and get through this smoothly?". It was my major conquest strategy in 6.0 as it took on average 1.8 runs to hit it and I play a lot of alts.

 

With the new gearing, and after maxing VM Decurion gearing, I have been queuing MM to learn the additional mechanics en route to 326 (studied the guides beforehand). But it has been really frustrating so far. I expected longer queue times as a DPS so do like many and start a daily run while I wait. Got into Lost Island as an example yesterday and had the healer quit after we wiped the droid boss a couple times. Waited for another healer and same result even though we were discussing what to do/avoid. 2nd healer quit, then tank quits, and gave up...again. I could have made 2-3 runs in VM for the time wasted.

 

Though I know this scenario played out lots of times in 6.0, hoping the calibration changes in 7.0 are the reason it has been so brutal in this first week of trying to step into MM. Probably won't try again until I hear they address it.

[ChaosIsGolden]

Hopefully this is the reason my early MM FP experience has been so poor so far. My favorite things to do in this game is VM FPs, mainly because they are relatively quick and I like to help newer players as well as the randomness of the group make-ups - "how can I keep everyone alive and get through this smoothly?". It was my major conquest strategy in 6.0 as it took on average 1.8 runs to hit it and I play a lot of alts.

 

With the new gearing, and after maxing VM Decurion gearing, I have been queuing MM to learn the additional mechanics en route to 326 (studied the guides beforehand). But it has been really frustrating so far. I expected longer queue times as a DPS so do like many and start a daily run while I wait. Got into Lost Island as an example yesterday and had the healer quit after we wiped the droid boss a couple times. Waited for another healer and same result even though we were discussing what to do/avoid. 2nd healer quit, then tank quits, and gave up...again. I could have made 2-3 runs in VM for the time wasted.

 

Though I know this scenario played out lots of times in 6.0, hoping the calibration changes in 7.0 are the reason it has been so brutal in this first week of trying to step into MM. Probably won't try again until I hear they address it.

 

I still think what they've done with GF is a mistake, since yes, continually getting HS wasn't fun, but that's why I'd que for other stuff after finishing my daily. The newer FPs are interesting, but generally, I only attempted them at HM with friends. Otherwise, I avoided them in GF.

 

This is just a question since I used to do a lot of healing at NM, but now play casual, was the tank interrupting the fire dot, and was the healer cleansing the dot if the tank wasn't interrupting? That alone can wipe a group in Lost Island since if either isn't done, the healer is forced to focus on the tank to keep them alive through the dot damage, leaving the dps out to dry. I know many players miss that if they're jumping from vets to hm, often forgetting you need to use those utilities that aren't generally required in Vet FPs.

[Ahwassa]

I had Nathema MM as healer yesterday and the last 2 bosses are absolutely punishing now if you don´t follow mechanics and los the Gemini laser beam.

It´s doable but it´s a race against time if you have low dps.

 

The GF should be changed so that only level 80 can list for them because if you have a lvl 70 in your group the bosses will probably go enrage. It could be changed back when most people have 326ish gear.

 

Also healing for sorcs and mercs should be buffed because they didn´t get an insane buff like operatives did.

[HypSpec]

This is just a question since I used to do a lot of healing at NM, but now play casual, was the tank interrupting the fire dot, and was the healer cleansing the dot if the tank wasn't interrupting? That alone can wipe a group in Lost Island since if either isn't done, the healer is forced to focus on the tank to keep them alive through the dot damage, leaving the dps out to dry. I know many players miss that if they're jumping from vets to hm, often forgetting you need to use those utilities that aren't generally required in Vet FPs.

 

Thanks for the inputs here. I think we were hit and miss on the tactics you mention over the multiple wipes. I interrupted the fire dot a couple time having read about it, but sounds like the tank should? Also I think our positioning was not coordinated well enough. Tank wanted to stay in center, healer wanted to use the corners and move when needed.

 

Hoping it is more about learning and coordinating and not that the MM modes are OP. I really want to stretch myself with MM because with new gear/stats maxed for VM, I can cut through them even easier than before.

[Gyronamics]

The only FP I've found to be unbelievably toxic for pug GF is Umbara. Last boss is just not going to happen unless you have an exceptional team.

 

Every other FP I have been able to carry/coach every team through.

[schwigi]

I cannot agree more, that the GF MM is in a sad state.

 

First of all I like what Bioware is trying to do with the random FP. This results in people playing more different flashpoints. I also like that you tried to make MM FPs harder.

 

But the balancing is terrible.

 

The veteran flashpoints do not help people learn mechanics which are required for master mode. The difficulty of verteran fps is on par with Heroics maybe slightly harder. So far so good.

 

I have no idea where the mm flashpoint difficulty is aimed at, but since they are available from GF in my opinion they should be aimed at Stroy Mode Operation level or a bit more difficult (like ignoring mechanics is punishing) and below Hard Mode Operations. They are clearly not in that range or at least the newer flashpoints are not.

Ignoring a mechanic once is basically a wipe. This would be fine if mm fp are aimed to be like nightmare operations, but then they should not be in the group finder.

 

Healing feels totally unbalanced. Doing like 17k hps (slightly below average if you take a look at parsley) is barely enough to keep a group alive in the newer FPs.

 

There needs to be a serious rebalance of master mode flashpoint difficulty.

[Vektarl]

I'm running a new Assassin Tank (most 326 except for 3 parts), and also pretty new to tanking only 2nd week of tanking (picked up tanking cos there always a shortage).. Basically many of the MM FP's seems to be balanced towards zero fun factor... I don't expect to cake walk stuff but the spike damage on loads of bosses seems insane, or missing negating a single mechanic once in a while on a boss means a wipe, and the healing required is not sustainable for most healers.

 

Look these are FPs, for me MM FP's are for people who want a "reasonable" challenge, and not to have their *** handed to them. Last night we (multiple pugs) attempted 5 MM FP's (Chiss x2, Nul x1, Nathama x1) none could be completed, as me the tank, and the healer could not keep up, it was so frustrating people just randomly quit.. Eventually people will just stop doing MM FP's and this is bad for the player base.

 

I was say a damage tone down of FP's bosses or around 10/15% would be enough, but hard to tell.

[DarthSpekulatius]

I'm bringing up a really old argument here (from when we went from the Lv 55 era to LV60 and they jammed HM II into the HM FPs, I think. Though Lost island was a Landmine in the "Pug-able FP que" even during LV55 if I remember correctly)

 

basically it's like when there were no NIM ops and HM was balanced harder to replace it.

they should really create a Que in between Vet and MM, just move the ones any decent Pug can do with at most a few wipes there, and keep Lost Island, Anathema,... in MM (we used to have something like that, it used to be called HM2 I think).

I think it could actually be good if there's only one MM FP / Week in that Que so it's easy to prepare for it. -> maybe keep the hardest 4 as they are just separate them from the other FPs then Balance the other FPs.

make the current MM weekly be for that "lower" que

 

maybe add a new weekly for MM that requires only one MM but doesn't reward anything critical -> it should just be for the good feeling you get from having something accomplished.

Lost island was a great FP when everyone knew the likelihood of finishing it was way less than any other FP before they ever selected its que. Now Lost Island is just a Bad FP most of the time you get it.

[Ergecrs]

Sorry I disagree with all of you. MMFP are

Still easy if you know your class and you are not garbage. Requirements are about 11k dps and 12k egos which is obtainable in 306 gear. In 320 if you know your class it’s very easy. That said with the changes to Star parse the number of garbage players I see queuing is insane. Dps pulling 4K dps heals doing 8k healing. Of course your not going to clear stuff. You won’t meet any checks with players doing that. I’ve seen tanks pull 7-8k dps and out damage dps players. I don’t expect everyone to do 20-24k dps or 22k hps but if you don’t know your class don’t que for MM FP.

[schwigi]

I have to correct myself somewhat on the above post.

 

The problem is a bit more complex, than just players doing bad dps or bad heal, but you are right Ergercs that is a big part of the Problem.

 

Above I mentioned my experience from the Lost Island and everyone did good DPS and HPS and everyone tried to do the mechanics properly. So there are some really harsh flashpoints, which in my opinion need some more balancing.

 

Then there are Flashpoints like Spirit of Vengance. I had one utterly terrible experience where somebody did not understand the mechanics of the first boss and we wiped constantly. Yesterday I did it with some guild mates everyone knew the mechanics. We had good healing and not so good DPS, but it was a good difficulty. Maybe the damage output or the healer output should be adjusted slightly, but I can not really tell from this one experience.

 

Hammer Station is another example I actually like. If you ignore the mechanics there you a likely to wipe. If you do your cleanses, interrupts, taunts and proper positioning it is actually quite easy, but still in a good difficulty range.

 

So I have to say looking at the exchanged gear, changed skill system, new levels etc. The devs did actually a pretty good job to balancing things. Getting 100% right the first time is simply impossible (Please let them know they did a good job, since devs usually get only negative feedback).

 

What we are missing is a way for people to understand that there are mechanics and learn them. Having to learn that there are mechanics in master mode is a pain.

 

I have no idea how that could be done, but the current implementation if veteran mode flashpoints does not help in teaching people game mechanincs. I am not even sure if it is possible with veteran mode, since the role restrictions are lifted. Some mechanics require cleans, taunt and you cannot be sure they are available in a veterean mode flashpoint.

 

One suggestion I have which could help: Allow players to disable 1 flashpoint (or 10% of the available flashpoints) and still get the weekly and groupfinder bonus. I for one do not want to see hammer station anymore, did it a bit too much.

[Crystal_Mind]

What we are missing is a way for people to understand that there are mechanics and learn them... I have no idea how that could be done...

 

I have an idea on this: it's called Communication.

 

As you say, MM Flashpoints sometimes contain mechanics that are not available in veteran. (And even if they are available in vm, they're frequently ignorable.) Ask questions. Answer questions. Problem solved.

 

Yes, I realize there are an unfortunate number of people who treat their party members like npcs and never speak in chat. These people--whether they are the folks refusing to ask for help/say "I'm new" OR the people who just say "omg" and quit group at the slightest hint that someone doesn't already know a mechanic--are part of the problem. Just talk to each other. Things go more smoothly that way.

[HypSpec]

I have an idea on this: it's called Communication.

 

This. Could not agree more and not just cause we are guildmates

 

A lot of veteran players are frustrated with the changes and I think that has made patience where thin and driven a less communitarian mindset. Sure there are loads of players jumping into MMs that should not with the new release (don't know their class, not used to group play, haven't even run the VMs), but a lot like me are trying to branch out to MM after doing countless VM runs and taking time to study up.

 

It has been a challenging first few attempts, even when allowing for more time in queue, requeue, and the run itself, there seems to be a lot of elitism and zero patience. I would LOVE if the experienced runners would take a few minutes up front, and ahead of each boss, to assess experience levels and cover mechanics. So far I have seen good attempts by some, but so many quits, in-fighting among experienced MM players, and more waiting. Have only been in one group that finished out of 4 so far....makes me just want to stay in VM and 324.

[schwigi]

I can agree Communication is one of the key ingredients to solving this.

Speaking for myself I am one of the players who is explaining the mechanics if someone does not know and tell everyone if I am not certain of the mechanics. I have to admit though my starting though is everyone knows the mechanics.

 

But you only change yourself, so there is pretty much nothing you can do against elitism.

 

Question is would you have liked if the vet fps include the mm mechanics where possible? Maybe not as hard as in master mode, but still punishing.

[HypSpec]

Question is would you have liked if the vet fps include the mm mechanics where possible? Maybe not as hard as in master mode, but still punishing.

 

Yes, I think if they could include the mechanics but had a way to scale them back a bit, that would be a good happy medium going forward. I realize some are not easily 'scalable' so maybe not bring in all of them but as many as they could.

[Spexius]

Question is would you have liked if the vet fps include the mm mechanics where possible? Maybe not as hard as in master mode, but still punishing.

VM FPs are role neutral, so anything which requires T/H/D is out of the question. In the end you are facing a hen-egg problem that you cannot solve except for dumping people into the real thing and let them deal with it. Problem currently is that the balancing of MM FPs is all across the board, and like in many other places the already more icky things in pre 7.0 became outright nasties now in 7.0.

[Night-runner]

I was glad to see they'll be nerfing some aspects of Umbara, Coperu, Nathema, and Elom to bring them more into alignment with other FPs

 

In 6.0 I've beaten all MM FPs in dps and tank mode, most in healer (just luck of the draw)

In 7.0 I didn't even try MM at first since I knew I'd need to re-learn my class, and gear up.

 

Tried it at iRating 321, had a rough go in Czerka Corporate labs (1st boss enrage, other dps was putting out less than the tank) and in Korriban Incursion (2nd boss heal check failed, healer iRating 278ish. Maybe we sucked too, but low level gear isn't a recipe for success)

 

Decided I'd stick with Vet Mode until I hit iRating 324, went back at 324 and completed the MM weekly 3x with no problems

[Eli_Porter]

By the time they fix group finder for FP's, the rewards will be meaningless as most people would have gotten their 326 already and moved on to doing Ops/GSF for 330.

[easyandrew]

It is the new player base,,awfull,,really some bad players..I have no clue how many who barely have 2k-5k achivos who have lev80 and the basic new gear came along so fast and yet I rarely see any ``vet players`` anymore in most fp`s,,I guess their all spamming single nim bosses or,,left the game..As well as most of our known abilitiies are now to have to be chosen instead of in the background there is a new learning curve but with all classes we get 3 new chosen abiltiies that outright outputs a ton of dps/heals,,so either learn the new way or just stand on the fleet all night spamming crap no one wants to buy or talk of how you miss trump,,it took me a few days to relearn how to play all my toons then slowly grinding out,,the few times MM fp`s did pop we all finished them with half of them having new players but everyone talked on what needs to be done instead of insulting or quitting,,the only one being Null on the 2nd boss which everyone keeps rushing the mobs,,,logic...

so to quote what most say on the fleet= Get Good.

Andrew

[coreliansongbird]

Sorry I disagree with all of you. MMFP are

Still easy if you know your class and you are not garbage. Requirements are about 11k dps and 12k egos which is obtainable in 306 gear. In 320 if you know your class it’s very easy. That said with the changes to Star parse the number of garbage players I see queuing is insane. Dps pulling 4K dps heals doing 8k healing. Of course your not going to clear stuff. You won’t meet any checks with players doing that. I’ve seen tanks pull 7-8k dps and out damage dps players. I don’t expect everyone to do 20-24k dps or 22k hps but if you don’t know your class don’t que for MM FP.

 

A friend and I recently restarted this game, having a fair amount of MMO experience and some SWTOR experience in the past. We're both 324-325 iRating (he tanks, I heal), and have been doing Vet FPs, heroics, PVP etc to get geared up/learn our classes etc. I don't think we're bad, but I guess I don't know for sure. We did our first MM last night (nathema) and it was easy as pie until the last boss. Then it was just fail fail fail fail fail fail. We read guides, we communicated with our team, but we just couldn't seem to cross the finish line (usually missing the mark by inches).

 

You say that it is 'very easy" to do MMs in 320 gear, and to 'know your class [or] don't queue' but my question is: How do you get to know your class to the level where you can do MM Nathema etc in 320 gear? Vet FPs aren't teaching us anything, they're too easy. There are almost no guides out for 7.0, and despite asking around for weeks, it seems like 'veteran' players are either unavailable or unwilling to teach or help. In most MMOs if you asked around to find a guild that does content and wants to teach/help new players learn and grow your whisper box would explode. In this game I might as well ask the dog.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not saying the game is bad or broken, and I'm certainly not saying I'm not garbage. You've given the 'what': get better. I'm just asking the 'how'. Because I feel like I've put in quite a bit of effort and apparently it's getting me no where.

[Zin-Zin]

The Gemini boss in MM Nathema no longer stops channeling the damage beam when the tank los’s around the pillars. It’s even worse when the duplicates are up as ALL of those beams will do damage through terrain that SHOULD be blocking line of sight. (I haven’t done Nathema MM since the first or second week post ‘expansion’ )

 

In general, if you’re playing DPS, you can’t ignore mechanics anymore; the healer will be unlikely to heal through avoidable damage. You need to know what your interrupt ability is, and you need to actually use it when relevant. You also need to know what your CC break is, and if you have any other ability that breaks roots/snares as a bonus effect. (Example: Force Speed breaks movement impairing abilities). In short, DPS need to realize that they both need to be carrying their own weight instead of foisting off all that ‘doing mechanics’ thing on the tank & healer; and that you have defensive cooldowns FOR A REASON.

 

Note that I ALWAYS ask at the beginning of the run who has not done this before in master mode. If you choose to not say anything, then don’t be surprised when the healer/tank leave after you make it apparent you have no idea what you’re doing (yes it is frequently PAINFULLY obvious when dps have no idea how to do a fight).

 

I’m not saying that you are doing these things, guy that mentioned Nathema, just btw.