We're honestly being trolled by the devs

[ShadowLordIV]

It's apparent that you've never played FFXIV. Where one character and play every job the game has to offer. One character can play every tank job (4), every healing job (4), every magical range dps job (4), every range DPS job (3), and every melee job (5).

 

This is seamless changes from going from playing a Dark Knight (tank) to playing a Dancer (RDPS) simply clicking a button. What FFXIV has for changing "combat stances" has been around since 2.0 ARR. It is the benchmark for other games to try what SWTOR has now.

 

Note: Jobs in FFXIV equals SWTOR's "Combat Stances" they've given us.

 

Now, I'm not going to knock this new feature. I welcome it. It's a bit confusing at first but once you get a hang on it, it would be great to have a macro to use that would change a stance with a single button removing the current 4 step process (Open K, select load out, activate load out, then close the window).

 

FFXIV doesn't stop there, the very same character can due each and ever crafting job in the game (8) and gathering job (3) by clicking the button used to set up these jobs as we have for our class jobs. All of it is seamless and works perfectly each and everything time a player choose a difference "combat stance" or crafting/gathering job.

 

I've never played a game that allowed a single player do every aspect of the game in terms of class/jobs and all crafting/gathering jobs. In SWTOR we can have one single crafting job, one single gathering job, and a mission job related to obtaining mats that support the crafting.

 

You talk about how great the "outfit designer" is. FFXIV set the benchmark for doing that for the player. The glamour system. It is unique as it is intuitive. It is the real endgame for FFXIV (as most players will say!). This involves using glamour prisms and most importantly, the glamour plate. Where you can have 20 different glamour looks set up for "combat stances" and crafting/gathering jobs. You can link it to each "combat stance" that will glamour the armor with a look of your choosing that you placed in the Glamour storage box.

 

When you change from being a Dark Knight to a Dancer, it automatically glamours the armor of the Dancer to a totally different look. It would be like changing from Malgus' armor to that of a Dancer's outfit many people have Vette wearing. Want to play as a Bard (Archer), boom, changes to your glamoured armor giving yourself a look from an old Errol Flynn movie with a cool looking hat or just wearing a bikini if you glamoured your armor as so.

 

So, here's a look at the glamour system of FFXIV. This will give you a more detailed look into how this system works. Do I want SWTOR to have the same thing. No, I like what SWTOR has, it is unique in of itself. However, there are bugs in it currently I'd hope the developers would address and fix along with all the mile long list of bugs 7.0 gave us.

 

Why did I tell you all this? To show you there is a game developer who has perfected those very same things you tried to use as an example. Since the original Devs tried to emulate WOWs with the features of this game using the Hero engine still in Alpha they obtained, things in this game have been prone to not working properly.

 

Like when hats were released shortly after launch and all the hair on a character's head clipped through it. Try as they did, they were never able to fix that so they just made the hat delete the hair and/or used special wrap around covers to cover up the ears, neck side, and back of the head, attached to the hat. This engine is at the core of many problems with this game. This is why so many updates have had bug issues. Most are remedied over time. I've accepted this because of the engine their using.

 

Still, at this point in time, I would venture to say, as a whole, the player base is extremely upset with 7.0, especially with Weapons Outfitter not part of the original release. Each and everyone who is upset that expresses their views and opinions on the state of the game currently are within their right to do so. It is what it is.

 

Thus, telling someone that SWTOR's current customization is the best, is far from the truth. And the reason I replied. SWTOR's current system cannot cast any shade on FFXIV's system. And I believe the reason behind it has to do with the current extremely modified unfinished Hero engine.

 

Speaking about changes, this is what FFXIV is releasing come 7.0 for the game. They are dramatically improving graphics for all aspects of the game. You can see that for yourself with the link I just provided.

 

Said it better than I. SWTOR will never come close to FFXIV unfortunately and I love the concept of this game.. It's just poorly ran by a skeleton crew that EA tortures.

[Ghostius]

you're blowing this way out of proportion. the expansion is fine.

Yes, I agree, expansion is ok, small one, but still fine.

All this talk about UI is really minor thing, at least to me.

[Gibonski]

You can't compare Final Fantasy to Star Wars in terms of picking up all the classes in one. You just can't. There is absolutely zero lore about casual imperial agent, bounty hunter to magically pick up lightsaber and use force abilities. This is the best they could have done in my opinion. It cannot work like in final fantasy. And many people would agree it kind of kills the class fantasy. You basically have the same face for all of the classes like What?

 

Again it's another demographic. Star wars have fans in many generations, which are sci fi nerds. Final is a bunch of multi aged weebs with loli addiction. I understand I am oversimplifiyng. There is also the fact that asian titles has bigger audience in the Pacific. There aren't many players over there who enjoy swtor like in the US or Europe. And there is a different culture about developing and caring for the product. Swtor has morphed into a cow that is being milked by people with yachts and won't bother to speak to the community.

 

The state of the game is sad, from what people are writing here, reddit, discords. But there are some good features too. Do I like all of them? Hell no!. Can it be improved? Yes please.

[Ghost_Spectre]

You can't compare Final Fantasy to Star Wars in terms of picking up all the classes in one. You just can't. There is absolutely zero lore about casual imperial agent, bounty hunter to magically pick up lightsaber and use force abilities. This is the best they could have done in my opinion. It cannot work like in final fantasy. And many people would agree it kind of kills the class fantasy. You basically have the same face for all of the classes like What?

 

Again it's another demographic. Star wars have fans in many generations, which are sci fi nerds. Final is a bunch of multi aged weebs with loli addiction. I understand I am oversimplifiyng. There is also the fact that asian titles has bigger audience in the Pacific. There aren't many players over there who enjoy swtor like in the US or Europe. And there is a different culture about developing and caring for the product. Swtor has morphed into a cow that is being milked by people with yachts and won't bother to speak to the community.

 

The state of the game is sad, from what people are writing here, reddit, discords. But there are some good features too. Do I like all of them? Hell no!. Can it be improved? Yes please.

 

Questions, did you actually read the entire post? Or did you just skim through it looking for keywords. Or did you just read the first paragraph, saw FFXIV, and post immediately afterwards?

 

I believe it to be the latter. First, I was very specific in using FFXIV as an example. And yes, I can and do use FFXIV in comparison because it is a direct competitor to SWTOR as an MMORPG. Secondly, I pointedly said this:

 

Now, I'm not going to knock this new feature. I welcome it. It's a bit confusing at first but once you get a hang on it, it would be great to have a macro to use that would change a stance with a single button removing the current 4 step process (Open K, select load out, activate load out, then close the window).

 

Throughout my post not once did I ever state that or even hint at your assertion:

 

There is absolutely zero lore about casual imperial agent, bounty hunter to magically pick up lightsaber and use force abilities.

 

The last part of your statement is misleading, I believe there is lore to support a Mandalorian mercenary picking up a lightsabre and using force abilities; conversely, in the series Mandalorian the main character now has the Dark Blade. Which requires some force potential IIRC from lore written about it before the series.

 

Yet, that's not my point. My point is: I did not want the FFXIV job system in SWTOR. I used it as an example how it works allowing a single player to do everything on one character. Most players have a single player that max out their characters in every job and crafting/gathering job. Then, they might start another one to relive the MSQ and do it all over again.

 

Then you had the audacity to say this:

 

Final is a bunch of multi aged weebs with loli addiction.

 

You just insulted 25 million subscribers and untold free to play players deciding on whether or not to sub, including myself. I do not and will not play a Lalafell. Furthermore, the use of that term you used has far more ramifications that in of itself would get you banned from the game and from a great deal of FFXIV streamers.

 

Furthermore, FFXIV isn't just about "fantasy or magic" it comprises the use of technology married to Aether (which comprises all life) or Ceruleum which is a technological resource that powers all of the Magi-Tech the Garlean Empire uses. Endwalker introduced star ships and hyperspace travel powered by Aether from the Eikons/Primals. FFXIV has a lot to offer even the most staunch Sci-Fi players too.

 

Lastly, my post was directed at the OP's ascertain that SWTOR's "Combat Stances & Outfitter" was the best of all MMOs. I showed him he was wrong in that claim. I even said this:

 

So, here's a look at the glamour system of FFXIV. This will give you a more detailed look into how this system works. Do I want SWTOR to have the same thing. No, I like what SWTOR has, it is unique in of itself. However, there are bugs in it currently I'd hope the developers would address and fix along with all the mile long list of bugs 7.0 gave us.

 

Had you read my post in its entirety and in context, you'd comprehend exactly what I was talking about and why. If you did read it all, then you purposefully took out of context what I said to justify posting your rather insulting and misleading reply. I hope its the former (not read the post in its entirety) and not the latter.

 

Finally, your ascertain that Asia has more fans than the rest of the world. I'd say they have more fans, yes, but more than the rest of the world itself? That would be a matter of opinion. One would only have to look at the number of streamers who are not from the Pacific that hail from the US, Europe, and all points in between. It is a game loved world wide. 25 million subscribers attest to that.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ghost_Spectre

[Neo_Psy]

I just canceled my subscription after only just paying for a month. Will just play this month I paid for and then go preferred for awhile until I feel they have earned my money. To be honest, I feel ripped off paying £9 for 2 hours of lackluster story and a huge headache re sorting out my tool bars and trying to get my head around all the dumb changes.

[Gibonski]

Questions, did you actually read the entire post? Or did you just skim through it looking for keywords. Or did you just read the first paragraph, saw FFXIV, and post immediately afterwards?

 

I believe it to be the latter. First, I was very specific in using FFXIV as an example. And yes, I can and do use FFXIV in comparison because it is a direct competitor to SWTOR as an MMORPG. Secondly, I pointedly said this:

 

 

 

Throughout my post not once did I ever state that or even hint at your assertion:

 

 

 

The last part of your statement is misleading, I believe there is lore to support a Mandalorian mercenary picking up a lightsabre and using force abilities; conversely, in the series Mandalorian the main character now has the Dark Blade. Which requires some force potential IIRC from lore written about it before the series.

 

Yet, that's not my point. My point is: I did not want the FFXIV job system in SWTOR. I used it as an example how it works allowing a single player to do everything on one character. Most players have a single player that max out their characters in every job and crafting/gathering job. Then, they might start another one to relive the MSQ and do it all over again.

 

Then you had the audacity to say this:

 

 

 

You just insulted 25 million subscribers and untold free to play players deciding on whether or not to sub, including myself. I do not and will not play a Lalafell. Furthermore, the use of that term you used has far more ramifications that in of itself would get you banned from the game and from a great deal of FFXIV streamers.

 

Furthermore, FFXIV isn't just about "fantasy or magic" it comprises the use of technology married to Aether (which comprises all life) or Ceruleum which is a technological resource that powers all of the Magi-Tech the Garlean Empire uses. Endwalker introduced star ships and hyperspace travel powered by Aether from the Eikons/Primals. FFXIV has a lot to offer even the most staunch Sci-Fi players too.

 

Lastly, my post was directed at the OP's ascertain that SWTOR's "Combat Stances & Outfitter" was the best of all MMOs. I showed him he was wrong in that claim. I even said this:

 

 

 

Had you read my post in its entirety and in context, you'd comprehend exactly what I was talking about and why. If you did read it all, then you purposefully took out of context what I said to justify posting your rather insulting and misleading reply. I hope its the former (not read the post in its entirety) and not the latter.

 

Finally, your ascertain that Asia has more fans than the rest of the world. I'd say they have more fans, yes, but more than the rest of the world itself? That would be a matter of opinion. One would only have to look at the number of streamers who are not from the Pacific that hail from the US, Europe, and all points in between. It is a game loved world wide. 25 million subscribers attest to that.

 

 

Yes I read your post, and I couldn't let it slide. You did point out that jobs equals combat styles, not "stances", which is clearly not the case. It doesn't equal because you can't mix and match everything in one. There is a clear distinction between force users and tech users. And in this universe it Is not doable.

 

You stated it's worse, which is a matter of perspective, subjective to every consumer. As I mentioned above you can't have "casual"( key word) tech user be proficient in the force. There was one mandalorian who was force sensitive and became a Jedi. This does not mean he learned it on the go. He was born with the connection to the force and having mandalorian origins was unique this way.

 

The causal sniper, commando, scoundrel magically picking up lightsaber and throwing people in the air don't happen. It's not assertion, its a fact. And I didn't mention that you stated it at all, so stop defending yourself from imaginary statements. I used it as an example on how you can't compare the class design in these two games.

 

You can use it as a comparison as a whole, but the class design is entirely different lore wise. Maybe you can welcome not wanting to create different alts in ff14, but believe it or not, people like different looks and RP in this game. Giving their characters back stories and stuff. Doing it on one character seems a bit whacky. But I digress.

 

And yes I have audacity to speak my mind, lol. I know you have been groomed by the devs and rules of ff14 not to speak your mind and be jolly sweet and positive. I don't have to. I tried this game and couldn't go past level 20. It's not my style of graphics and the constant reminder that behind lots of long legged girl is a sweaty man in the cellar is repulsive.

 

That being said, I strongly agree that there are many normal players too. And the community is both welcoming to new players and supports them. That is fine. But then again. It wasn't my point and I don't see you have understood it completely.

 

Don't compare class design and call out swtor worse, because you can have every job on one character in your game. I get it that you believe your game to be better. But not everyone shares your opinion. As the matter is based on 2 factors.

 

1st Lore and capabilities of introducing all classes on one character.

2nd Personal Preference

[Joonbeams]

cut them some slack.

 

I suspect this was sarcasm...

[Master_Morak]

Fully agreed, the gearing system of 6.0 together with renown was nearly perfect, even for players like me which never go to NiM-Raids only playing SM or HC Raids (unfortunaly our guild losses so much players so that from formerly 4 raid groups most of he time now not enough for a Flashpoint are left.)

[Sarova]

1. An extremely short story

2. A horrendous new gearing system that is grindy and bugged, making it impossible to obtain gear.

3. A new user interface which is waaaay worse than the old one for multiple reasons:

• It is so big and ugly that you can't even view your character from multiple angles when changing outfits.
  
• We used to be able to see other player's outfits but now we can't
  
• The inventory blinds you with ugly blue boxes
  
• Purchasing a new slot in outfit designer doesn't update until you close and reopen it.
  
• Moving an item from your cargo bay to your inventory sometimes causes that item to completely disappear unless you close and reopen your inventory
  
• Dragging the window around with your mouse cursor will sometimes cause that window to "stick" to your mouse cursor.
  

 

Speaking of bugs:

• Loot crates not giving people gear
  
• Loot crates not appearing in inventories
  

 

4. Dumb changes

• Ability Pruning
  
• Can't change specs in group finder unless you /leave the group. Nope, exiting instances doesn't work either. You have to /leave and get a 15 minute lockout.
  

Picked out the ones that are annoying me most. What's worse is that these were experienced on the PTS (I keep typing PTSD - universe trying to tell me something?) and we GAVE CLEAR FEEDBACK on how it was having an effect. Putting two essential class abilities into the same ability tree is the worse thing they allowed into live (and the trees are a massive improvement on what they were so you can imagine how bad they started). The new character UI was tagged as a "work in progress" on the PTS; how on earth did this mess make it into live. I'll also add the new diabolical font - it's really hard to read. And if there's a future for this game, they really should have tested gearing on the PTS as it would be in live; we were given a false impression of how upgrading gear would work. In reality it's crap.

 

EDIT: I missed off the changes to stealth which have ended up affecting everything except PvP (not just vanish in FPs and Ops). As well as being unstealthed in any area where there is a stealth detect mob (even from across the planet - well not that far but it seems like it) entering some rooms in flashpoints where there is a detect mob will aggro all groups of mobs on you. Example: Spirit of Vengeance > Fortune Folly's Officer's Lounge > four large groups (one right, one left, one centre and one at the back of the room) all groups contain at least 3 overly strong mobs, one elite and medics. Before 7.0 you could do these groups one at a time even if you were stealth detected. After 7.0, the stealth detectors in each group of mobs will see you the minute you walk in there, unstealth you and all 4 groups will aggro on you at the same time. Vanish no longer works here so you will be killed quickly because you're arsehole temp companion is now made of wet tissue paper and will die almost instantly; not sure revamped tanks would survive that. I gave up stealthing and just ran it without. So it's pointless trying to use stealth in solo FPs that have stealth detect mobs as the stealth detect mechanic is abysmal (this was fed back during the PTS).

 

• We used to be able to see other player's outfits but now we can't

This one is affecting me more than I thought it would. I love inspecting outfit's as some players put together really unique combinations and it's nice to see what they used. I really miss this already

 

I'm repeating myself (probably) but how did they allow this to happen? They announced a delay because it wasn't good, all of us who had tested it breathed a sigh of relief hoping that they'd be able to fix most if not all of the issues. They allowed the PTS to continue over Christmas/New Year/Holidays and wanted our continued feedback and did then nothing with it? Far too many people are unhappy with the game right now. Unhappy gamers = loss of $$$/£££/€€€s for SWTOR. I don't even think they will send out individual emails for feedback like they did in 5.x because that was nowhere near as bad as this. At this point, I would not be surprised if there's an announcement that due to [iT'S ALL GONE TO H*LL REASONS], the game is cancelled and shuts down in 2 weeks.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Sarova

[ShadowLordIV]

Yes I read your post, and I couldn't let it slide. You did point out that jobs equals combat styles, not "stances", which is clearly not the case. It doesn't equal because you can't mix and match everything in one. There is a clear distinction between force users and tech users. And in this universe it Is not doable.

 

You stated it's worse, which is a matter of perspective, subjective to every consumer. As I mentioned above you can't have "casual"( key word) tech user be proficient in the force. There was one mandalorian who was force sensitive and became a Jedi. This does not mean he learned it on the go. He was born with the connection to the force and having mandalorian origins was unique this way.

 

The causal sniper, commando, scoundrel magically picking up lightsaber and throwing people in the air don't happen. It's not assertion, its a fact. And I didn't mention that you stated it at all, so stop defending yourself from imaginary statements. I used it as an example on how you can't compare the class design in these two games.

 

You can use it as a comparison as a whole, but the class design is entirely different lore wise. Maybe you can welcome not wanting to create different alts in ff14, but believe it or not, people like different looks and RP in this game. Giving their characters back stories and stuff. Doing it on one character seems a bit whacky. But I digress.

 

And yes I have audacity to speak my mind, lol. I know you have been groomed by the devs and rules of ff14 not to speak your mind and be jolly sweet and positive. I don't have to. I tried this game and couldn't go past level 20. It's not my style of graphics and the constant reminder that behind lots of long legged girl is a sweaty man in the cellar is repulsive.

 

That being said, I strongly agree that there are many normal players too. And the community is both welcoming to new players and supports them. That is fine. But then again. It wasn't my point and I don't see you have understood it completely.

 

Don't compare class design and call out swtor worse, because you can have every job on one character in your game. I get it that you believe your game to be better. But not everyone shares your opinion. As the matter is based on 2 factors.

 

1st Lore and capabilities of introducing all classes on one character.

2nd Personal Preference

 

To be fair if we are too look at it from a competitor stand point FFXIV does everything better that SWTOR has done with the 7.x launch. The ONLY thing that SWTOR did better was server conjestion- but that is just player base coming into the game. I agree that it doesn't make sense for a NFU to pick up a saber and be a rawr i have saber rawr. But if we are to compary story vs story < It goes to final fantasy.

We go to Optimization with graphics < it goes to final fantasy

We go to core mechancis< Final Fantays

Staff Treatment < Final Fantasy

End Game Grinding < Final Fantasy

The key point here that the person was trying to speak to is that the Developers and Staff actually care for their game and want it to succeed and that is why there is 25 million + players and HAS dethroned WoW from being the Top MMO.

The only quality that SWTOR has going for it is a dedicated Star Wars fan base.

Lets not talk about Ubisoft making a new MMO for Star Wars.

This game is dying because it doesn't have the staff that cares about the game as a whole like other games do. Its a skeleton crew that is tired and run into the dirt by its managment trying to push something to compete with something that you can't even compare it to. Comparing SWTOR to FFXIV is comparing Copper (SWTOR) to Diamonds (FFXIV) You just can't FFXIV blows it out of the water. Cause everything you do in FFXIV is optional besides the story.

[juliushorst]

You can't compare Final Fantasy to Star Wars in terms of picking up all the classes in one. You just can't. There is absolutely zero lore about casual imperial agent, bounty hunter to magically pick up lightsaber and use force abilities. .

 

 

Cade Skywalker was a bounty hunter and then became a Jedi.

Tahiri Veila was a Jedi and then became a bounty hunter.

Corran Horn was a pilot \ spec ops agent and then became a Jedi.

Dorjander Kace was a Jedi and then became a Mandalorian. Same as Bardan Jusik.

Darth Krayt was Jedi turned bounty hunter turned Sith.

Kyle Katarn was a mercenary and then became a Jedi.

 

So there is some lore.

Edited February 22, 2022 by juliushorst

[CrazyScruffy]

That is not necessary, i have no idea when the ubisoft MMO is slated to release. My first guess is that swtor will be shut down by late 2023. If history repeats itself and this game last until the new MMO is ready. SWTOR will shutdown 5 days before release, Just like SWG shutdown 5 days before release of SWTOR.

 

Just want to note that Ubisoft is not making an mmo. Why that rumor started or where I have no idea. They are making an open world game (most likely in the same vein as Division). If they were making an mmo they would call it such. And this is likely the last Star Wars mmo for a long time. But most of this falls on EA. Most of their games have sucked recently and only been about getting $ not a quality product. I wish BioWare could breakaway and we might see real change. But sadly that won’t happen. Unfortunately I truly believe the devs aren’t trolling us. They have higher up and their marching orders.

[DiegoOnasi]

cut them some slack.

No! they are undeserving of slack. They have disrespected the player base by ignoring al our feedback and implementing changes no one wanted and everyone who played on PTS told them was a bad idea.

 

We need to see a major U turn on a lot of these issues by 7.1 or there wont be enough players around to fill a flashpoint queue let alone a warzone

[ReveredDead]

cut them some slack.

 

A whole freaking year to work on 7.0 and then DELAYED IT FOR TWO MONTHS. Don't give us that crap dude.

[SnEaKyMan]

It's not the Developers. It's the leadership team. I know you probably mean that too. But the Developers have done what they're told to do. I'm sure there is some freedom of creativity down to artists and developers with specific outcomes that the directors would like, but ultimately the people to blame for this expansion is both the game director and producer.