Shared tagging won't change much

[Falensawino]

People will still have to wait around for others to complete heroics/dailies because objectives won't be shared. If you need to click a panel, right click to destroy something, loot something with a cooldown. All I have to do now is Rifle Shot/Grenade out of stealth and click the objective while the other guy is busy killing the mob for me.

 

You basically have 1 GCD to notice someone joined your shared tag and click the objective before they can snipe the objective from you. If the ninja looter goes for the objective directly from stealth, you won't even have the 1 GCD grace to get the objective before the ninja joins your shared tag after they've done the deed and made you wait.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Falensawino

[NogueiraA]

That's exactly what I said since when announced shared tagging.

Me and other people told them "DO THE SAME FOR THE CLICKIES", they completely ignored that.

 

If they reduce all the clickies cooldown by 90% then ok.

 

In 7.0 there will be a "favorite" game mode every week, so imagine when it's Heroics, we gonna see thousands of people trying to complete heroics, it'll be a nightmare.

[SteveTheCynic]

In 7.0 there will be a "favorite" game mode every week, so imagine when it's Heroics, we gonna see thousands of people trying to complete heroics, it'll be a nightmare.

At least it won't be too outrageously impactful for Possessed Hunter and The Face Merchants, which were the ones that historically attracted the most complaints.

[Rolodome]

Yep. Pushing people into the same areas and only doing shared tagging as a consolation is making things worse overall.

 

Not intended to be comprehensive, but things I can think of that are still problems even with shared tagging:

- objectives

- respawn timers

- getting a hit in before an important mob dies

 

I don't know what to even say for solutions though because the original design of it is so inconsistent. For example, some objectives can be clicked with no visible change and so there's no wait period. Some are a cutscene, so they can be clicked with no wait period. Some objectives have a visible change that could probably be removed, but some change in a way where another part of the objective is revealed after a visual change, so you can't just remove the visual part and be done. /facepalm

 

Then there's mobs that drop important things or whose death is a key objective, but die too fast or take way too long to respawn, so shared tagging will really just mean a handful of high HP boss mob objectives are easier to share a kill on. And if I'm not mistaken (hopefully I'm wrong about this) I think someone said that the tagging only applies to the mobs you hit, not the whole aggro group, so like with The Face Merchants, good luck landing a hit on the right mob to loot the quest item drop.

 

What they really need is to reevaluate the objective design of most of the quests in the game and make some choices that follow a consistent design aimed toward shared objectives and quest progress, but I don't see that happening. Best I see happening is more patchwork solutions like this that don't really get to the root of the problem.

[Pricia]

People will still have to wait around for others to complete heroics/dailies because objectives won't be shared. If you need to click a panel, right click to destroy something, loot something with a cooldown. All I have to do now is Rifle Shot/Grenade out of stealth and click the objective while the other guy is busy killing the mob for me.

 

You basically have 1 GCD to notice someone joined your shared tag and click the objective before they can snipe the objective from you. If the ninja looter goes for the objective directly from stealth, you won't even have the 1 GCD grace to get the objective before the ninja joins your shared tag after they've done the deed and made you wait.

 

At least mission loot is being shared.

 

But really, even now you got to get the clicky right away if you know that someone else wants it. Otherwise they have to wait for you to kill the mobs AND for the clicky to respawn and it's a total waste of time.

 

But CLICKIES NEED TO RESPAWN INSTANTLY. Please, BW, listen. Some missions are already frustrating as heck, if you have to compete with 20 people for one clicky, it's GOING TO SUCK.

 

And respawn times of mobs need to be changed as well. Shared tagging is great, but when 6 people kill a mob, it goes down fast and the 7th still needs to wait for respawn.

 

Edit: this post should really be in the PTS section IMO.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Pricia

[illgot]

At least mission loot is being shared.

 

But really, even now you got to get the clicky right away if you know that someone else wants it. Otherwise they have to wait for you to kill the mobs AND for the clicky to respawn and it's a total waste of time.

 

But CLICKIES NEED TO RESPAWN INSTANTLY. Please, BW, listen. Some missions are already frustrating as heck, if you have to compete with 20 people for one clicky, it's GOING TO SUCK.

 

And respawn times of mobs need to be changed as well. Shared tagging is great, but when 6 people kill a mob, it goes down fast and the 7th still needs to wait for respawn.

 

Edit: this post should really be in the PTS section IMO.

 

If by mission loot you mean mission objectives dropped by specific NPCs, the few missions I checked with on the PTS did not fix this. On the live server there are a few missions where even if you are grouped the mission objective is not shared by the whole group, only the first person to tag the target could pick up the key card. This issue persisted on the PTS and the mobs that dropped the keycard have a 3 minute respawn timer.

 

Other mission objectives I checked still have a 4.5 minute respawn timer on the PTS. Since we are funneling all players into the same 5 planets doing the same Heroic missions, imagine what 30 people trying to click one objective will be like when the objectives have a 4.5 minute respawn timer.

 

Limiting the weekly heroics was a mistake when Bioware refused to actually go through and fix all the timers for both objectives and respawning kill targets.

 

I'm not holding out much hope for 7.0.

 

These issues have all been posted on the PTS but nothing has come from any of the suggestions yet and probably won't well into 7.1.

 

I agree with you, all respawn timers for objectives need to be almost instant and key mobs should respawn based on how quickly they are killed.

Edited February 6, 2022 by illgot

[Gwena]

Agreed, OP. I've mentioned this before and I simply cannot believe that Bioware can recognize how useful shared tagging will be for crowded daily areas, yet completely fails to consider clickies.

CLICKIES NEED TO RESPAWN INSTANTLY.

This exactly!

 

I've learned from experience in this game that many people will not "wait their turn" and be polite when it comes to clickable quest objectives. As someone who doesn't like to be rude, I find it quite unpleasant to have to compete for quest objectives.

[SteveTheCynic]

But CLICKIES NEED TO RESPAWN INSTANTLY.

Actually, no. Some clickies are "click this one and that one and the other one", while some are "click 42 of these". If clickies respawn instantly, doing the "42 of" clickies would be trivial.

 

What it should be is that the clicked status of clickies is per-player rather than per-instance. The existing reset time of clickies is just fine for a single player in the area, so if each player in the area gets his or her own set of clickies, problem solved.

[Pricia]

Actually, no. Some clickies are "click this one and that one and the other one", while some are "click 42 of these". If clickies respawn instantly, doing the "42 of" clickies would be trivial.

 

What it should be is that the clicked status of clickies is per-player rather than per-instance. The existing reset time of clickies is just fine for a single player in the area, so if each player in the area gets his or her own set of clickies, problem solved.

 

That would work too.

 

Right now it stinks. I also went on PTS to check some of the heroics and yep... no change in the respawn.

 

What someone said above about loot items not dropping with shared tagging is hopefully a bug that they have fixed (I frankly didn't see any feedback about shared tagging on the PTS forum so I really hope that people at least reported it).

[eabevella]

They need to fix the drop rate of yellow/gold mission items and the respwan time of those mobs on open map too.

 

There's one Heroic on Pub side Balmorra where you need to get an access card from a gold mob that is not a guarantee drop. There are only 3 or 4 gold mobs in that camp and I can't remember the times I wipe the camp clean without getting a single drop. It sucks even more when there are more than one people who are doing that mission.

 

Also there's a illegal clinic Heroic on Pub side Coroscant with similar problem where there are only 3 or 4 group of mobs that will drop the yellow/gold mission items but half of the time the area is wiped clean because of the number of people who are doing it and the people who simply pass by and kill the trash because that's what people do.

[illgot]

Actually, no. Some clickies are "click this one and that one and the other one", while some are "click 42 of these". If clickies respawn instantly, doing the "42 of" clickies would be trivial.

 

What it should be is that the clicked status of clickies is per-player rather than per-instance. The existing reset time of clickies is just fine for a single player in the area, so if each player in the area gets his or her own set of clickies, problem solved.

 

who cares?

 

Would you rather pick up the Weekly Heroic and find 20-30 people camping the 9 spawning objectives that take 4.5 minutes to respawn and you need 8 of them to complete the Heroic?

 

What's worse, having lines of people wait an hour to finish a single heroic or people finishing heroics faster if the respawn timer is 2-3 seconds?

[Spexius]

What it should be is that the clicked status of clickies is per-player rather than per-instance.

These clickies are part of the world state, and there can be quite some fallout for instancing that specifically while everything around it is shared. I'm not saying it is impossible to do technically, it just has a good few consequences down the line where I'm sure that this may backfire here and there when introduced. Aside of obvious problems like grouping up, where normally you'd expect a shared world state then etc.

 

Within the current "framework" I think the simplest solution is to lower the timeout on a good few of these shared / open world clickies, as has been mentioned already.

[Pricia]

They need to fix the drop rate of yellow/gold mission items and the respwan time of those mobs on open map too.

 

There's one Heroic on Pub side Balmorra where you need to get an access card from a gold mob that is not a guarantee drop. There are only 3 or 4 gold mobs in that camp and I can't remember the times I wipe the camp clean without getting a single drop. It sucks even more when there are more than one people who are doing that mission.

 

Also there's a illegal clinic Heroic on Pub side Coroscant with similar problem where there are only 3 or 4 group of mobs that will drop the yellow/gold mission items but half of the time the area is wiped clean because of the number of people who are doing it and the people who simply pass by and kill the trash because that's what people do.

 

Aaaah. Good old Justice for the Lost mission. Pretty much the reason (with Blackout) why I like having each of my toons their set of gear - so I can just log off that toon and play another one while it respawns...

 

But the Coruscant one - I've never had an issue with the drop. What's idiotic is that the respawn is way too slow, they die too fast, and there's ALSO a secondary mission to kill 15 of them.

 

Really thought, mainly thinking about how I'm going to cringe when CZ-198 is the weekly and everyone's fighting for the damn clickies. Gosh.

[xordevoreaux]

Really thought, mainly thinking about how I'm going to cringe when CZ-198 is the weekly and everyone's fighting for the damn clickies. Gosh.

That'll be insane.

 

Also insane, people worried about fighting for Face Merchant mobs in the uninstanced part of the zone. They won't be there to kill for most people. Most people will find them dead, on every map, all the time. It won't encourage people to group up. Yes, people do group with me occasionally when I cold invite them in the Face Merchants area, but more often than not, they decline.

 

The competitive mentality overwhelms any sense of fairness, and off they go, slaughtering Face Merchant mobs despite others standing there, desperately trying to group with them. They don't bother grouping either because they relish being jerks or believe other people will just slow them down.

 

Open tagging won't cure that. Maybe if you're a healer, you can bubble someone who won't group with you who's killing the mobs. Maybe you'll get quest credit, maybe you won't. If you're standing there as a DPS or tank, good luck.

Edited February 7, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[DWho]

That'll be insane.

 

Also insane, people worried about fighting for Face Merchant mobs in the uninstanced part of the zone. They won't be there to kill for most people. Most people will find them dead, on every map, all the time. It won't encourage people to group up. Yes, people do group with me occasionally when I cold invite them in the Face Merchants area, but more often than not, they decline.

 

The competitive mentality overwhelms any sense of fairness, and off they go, slaughtering Face Merchant mobs despite others standing there, desperately trying to group with them. They don't bother grouping either because they relish being jerks or believe other people will just slow them down.

 

Open tagging won't cure that. Maybe if you're a healer, you can bubble someone who won't group with you who's killing the mobs. Maybe you'll get quest credit, maybe you won't. If you're standing there as a DPS or tank, good luck.

 

The question I have about Face Merchants is how the required drop will be shared. On the PTS it seemed like whoever looted first got it and no one else did. It was something I tried to test with a guildmate (not grouped). Hopefully that was just a bug on the PTS. There are a few other missions that have you collect drops from NPCs that could also be affected if that is how it is going to work.

[xordevoreaux]

The question I have about Face Merchants is how the required drop will be shared. On the PTS it seemed like whoever looted first got it and no one else did. It was something I tried to test with a guildmate (not grouped). Hopefully that was just a bug on the PTS. There are a few other missions that have you collect drops from NPCs that could also be affected if that is how it is going to work.

 

I also tested drops / quest updates with a guildie, ungrouped, but I don't remember all the specifics. I remember vaguely sometimes it worked where we both got credit, but under certain conditions, we didn't.

[casirabit]

If they were supposed to be taking a page for wow on this, then they failed miserably. In wow it didn't matter, everyone got the item they needed and move on. Here, again, they seem not to know what they are doing.

[ElZaguero]

At least it won't be too outrageously impactful for Possessed Hunter and The Face Merchants, which were the ones that historically attracted the most complaints.

 

It has been my observation in recent years that most people have gotten pretty good about teaming up for Possessed Hunter

[Screaming_Ziva]

So someone can basically wait hours and hours and hours for Martinique Desler to spawn and then some rando can come and tag her while the original person is fighting her and get the mount?

[Pricia]

So someone can basically wait hours and hours and hours for Martinique Desler to spawn and then some rando can come and tag her while the original person is fighting her and get the mount?

 

No, it only works for mission loot, not original loot.

 

It has been my observation in recent years that most people have gotten pretty good about teaming up for Possessed Hunter

 

That one isn't even a huge deal because it respawns pretty quickly (30 seconds I think?).

 

I remember one time in CZ-198 (can you tell how much I love that place?) when 5 of us were waiting for the Heroic+2 mob to spawn... I invited everyone and they all joined, except one guy and of course he's the one who got the tag when it respawned. The other people in my group didn't even try. Gosh that was frustrating...

[SteveTheCynic]

who cares?

 

Would you rather pick up the Weekly Heroic and find 20-30 people camping the 9 spawning objectives that take 4.5 minutes to respawn and you need 8 of them to complete the Heroic?

Duh. If the clickies are per-player, then when I click one, it remains available for you to click. (Ref: material gathering nodes in GW2, which can, in fact, be simultaneously harvested by many players) Sure, an instant-respawn on them would have a similar effect, but would also reduce them to clickfests.

What's worse, having lines of people wait an hour to finish a single heroic or people finishing heroics faster if the respawn timer is 2-3 seconds?

You present that as if those are the only ways it can be done. Per-player clickie state *also* relieves the "lines waiting" problem.

[MystyqeofXev]

If they were supposed to be taking a page for wow on this, then they failed miserably. In wow it didn't matter, everyone got the item they needed and move on. Here, again, they seem not to know what they are doing.

 

/\

 

This. SO.MUCH.THIS

 

How can they keep borrowing the wrong ideas from WoW, and not instituting the ones that make sense?

[OlBuzzard]

If they were supposed to be taking a page for wow on this, then they failed miserably. In wow it didn't matter, everyone got the item they needed and move on. Here, again, they seem not to know what they are doing.

 

Respectfully ... IMO I think that they know exactly what they're doing!!

 

Which begs to ask a much larger question: why?

 

[/scratches head] Something is just not adding up!

 

Maybe I'm overreacting a bit?? Maybe. Maybe NOT!

 

Granted the whole covid thing has messed with a LOT of businesses (including the entertainment industry). But lately ( perhaps for a while now) ... the whole things just seems to be out of sync.

[casirabit]

Respectfully ... IMO I think that they know exactly what they're doing!!

 

Which begs to ask a much larger question: why?

 

[/scratches head] Something is just not adding up!

 

Maybe I'm overreacting a bit?? Maybe. Maybe NOT!

 

Granted the whole covid thing has messed with a LOT of businesses (including the entertainment industry). But lately ( perhaps for a while now) ... the whole things just seems to be out of sync.

 

Probably. I keep thinking they are shooting themselves in the foot and the way they are dealing with their version of tagging is going to drive people away because (1) I will not fight over objectives nor (2) forced to group up. Make this game where it is not fun to play then it is easy for me to say bye. No threats or anything else for me but make it where I dread playing, then I just stop and take my money elsewhere. Life is too short to have a game drive me nuts p.

[Darev]

I tested the Heroic droid for CZ198 on PTS and the shared credit worked for that.

It's JUST the kill though, no loot or clickies.

 

For Face Merchants...while I didn't test that, and it SHOULD work for the bonus kill count...ungrouped multi player loot of the keycard...I think that's not likely.

 

Stand Alone clickies, like the kolto barrels for CZ198 or the keypads to destroy the droids in storage (or to open up said crate to fight the droid), I don't think that's going to change at all.