Bioware last call :(

[Savej]

And herein lies the very nature of the biggest fallacies that plagues social media and online forums. It's called "Appeal to motive" and it definitely does not make your argument any stronger, or the counter-argument any weaker. Simply presuming an ulterior motive because the comment does not align with your perception does not make for a convincing argument. Neither does a reply which is not even trying to challenge the points in the comment except to discredit the person behind it, which was the case with this pretty inappropriate comment:

 

 

 

It was the same spiel with the new Social Window. There was a huge outcry on the forums and anyone who did not chime into the chant that it is the worst thing ever and that it should be immediately reverted back to the former state got attacked on an obscene scale. Even more obscene was that some of the people flinging mud left and right had the audacity to claim victim status because mud had been flung right back at them. It is quite telling that no one is talking about said Social Window anymore. Let's see how the people on this forum will talk about the changes in 7.0 when the dust has settled.

 

If the only argument someone has is that "they like the changes and their feelings matter" when in fact they are paid shills (or employees/salespeople/marketers) with no relevant feelings about the game, then I would say their "argument" -is- invalid. Maybe not to you.

[Shwarzchild]

Don't play the victim, you went out of your way to give people a "don't like it, then leave" speech. I called your speech goofy, not you, which it was and it always will be no matter who gives it in what game.

 

As I said, read the room. There is a difference between doing detailed testing and giving detailed feedback that disagrees with the overwhelming consensus (most of which has been written by people who did detailed testing and gave detailed feedback on what was on the PTS) and simply saying "but I like it / am fine with it." Some people sunk hours of their lives into testing the new stuff for free and writing their feedback on it, only for clowns to come in at the last hour and tell them that "actually, I disagree, ahem hrm" without any remotely comparable effort put into explaining why. It's obnoxious and yes, as someone else rightfully pointed out, reeks of marketing. Comparable effort that disagrees with the consensus has been shared sometimes and it's fine because it gives people something to talk about. Being contrarian does not. It's disrespectful to the time people have put into testing and sharing their feedback, and on top of that, is often openly disrespectful and dismissive in its tone if you actually read how those people post. Like the kind of people who said nonsense like "wait and see" when there was stuff on the PTS to see. Or say this is all just people getting worked up about nothing, without addressing any specific concern.

 

Let's think about this shall we?

 

You were annoyed that I posted about a poster being inflammatory to someone that held an opposing view point. That view point is below:

 

"After reading all the panic, doom and gloom, I leveled up a character on my favorite class on the PTS and honestly, I liked the changes. I'm not sold on the slower progression of abilities as you level, but the end result was that I enjoyed that class at least as much as before. I had to choose between a couple things I was used to having, but some of the choices made other abilities even better. I didn't really take the time to experiment with all the classes. I figure there will be plenty of time to figure that out between 7.0 and 8.0."

 

What that poster said is completely true. Some of the abilities that you can choose in the new skill tree do make those abilities better than they currently are. They definitely do have to choose one between things they currently have in some cases. The biggest one for me when I was playing around on the PTS was sniper shield or orbital or hololocate. An example of something being better would be the change to Laze Target.

 

So that poster took the advice of people such as yourself, and leveled up a toon on the PTS. They posted their thoughts in a thread that is related to 7.0 with their experience. Because they didn't agree with people such as yourself who have been as loud as they can be about their concerns with 7.0 they're labeled as some sort of conspirator instead of an example that not everyone may agree that 7.0 is the ending of the game. That labeling is what I commented about. It's unneeded, and serves zero purpose.

 

Your posts responding to me calling that out look to be attempts to discredit me too since I don't really agree with you or people "in your camp" either. I don't think 7.0 will be some epic bomb of an expansion. I do believe there are parts I'm concerned with sure. So you said I should quit if I don't find enjoyment, well I did. Since I literally practice what I preach I'm somehow a victim. I am not a victim of anything. This is just a video game, and our options both you nd me and everyone else is to either grit your teeth and hold your nose and play or simply do something else and leave. Play or don't is literally all we can do. And, if you honestly need to continuously vent your frustrations feel free to keep yelling at me. I'll keep listening. You seem to need the release. Legit everything you're talking about isn't related to the post from a poster I was defending. I'd suggest, honestly, that you look in the mirror and think about if you want to play this game. It's a game that's it. From your posts you seem so worked up that maybe it is best you just leave. Take that break and see where it leads you. You've provided your feedback. Your mission is done here.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Shwarzchild

[Rolodome]

"After reading all the panic, doom and gloom, I leveled up a character on my favorite class on the PTS and honestly, I liked the changes. I'm not sold on the slower progression of abilities as you level, but the end result was that I enjoyed that class at least as much as before. I had to choose between a couple things I was used to having, but some of the choices made other abilities even better. I didn't really take the time to experiment with all the classes. I figure there will be plenty of time to figure that out between 7.0 and 8.0."

 

What that poster said is completely true. Some of the abilities that you can choose in the new skill tree do make those abilities better than they currently are. They definitely do have to choose one between things they currently have in some cases. The biggest one for me when I was playing around on the PTS was sniper shield or orbital or hololocate. An example of something being better would be the change to Laze Target.

 

So that poster took the advice of people such as yourself, and leveled up a toon on the PTS. They posted their thoughts in a thread that is related to 7.0 with their experience. Because they didn't agree with people such as yourself who have been as loud as they can be about their concerns with 7.0 they're labeled as some sort of conspirator instead of an example that not everyone may agree that 7.0 is the ending of the game. That labeling is what I commented about. It's unneeded, and serves zero purpose.

That's pretty much just them saying they leveled a character and they disagree with the consensus about leveling and having to choose between abilities. So they tested one single aspect of things people have been complaining about and their feedback amounts to "I enjoyed it." It's not detailed feedback, there is nothing to discuss there. It's just someone's opinion and that's it. What are we gonna discuss with them? What number on a scale of 1 to 10 they enjoyed it compared to now? Like congrats, they enjoy being forced to choose between things they had all of previously? And of course they stick in a part about "the panic, doom and gloom" because it's not enough to just say their opinion, they have to contrast it against the consensus to insinuate that the complaints are invalid. So don't talk to me about how people not liking that are invalidating their feedback.

 

If you still don't understand what I mean, let's just leave it at that. I don't think I have anything more to say.

[Phazonfreak]

If the only argument someone has is that "they like the changes and their feelings matter" when in fact they are paid shills (or employees/salespeople/marketers) with no relevant feelings about the game, then I would say their "argument" -is- invalid. Maybe not to you.

 

And that is exactly your problem. You are denying that there could even be players with relevant feelings about this game who simply don't hate the changes as much as you do without automatically being a paid shill. You are creating a conversation in which anyone who disagrees with you is automatically suspect and not worthy of an argument in the first place.

[ExarSun]

If the only argument someone has is that "they like the changes and their feelings matter" when in fact they are paid shills (or employees/salespeople/marketers) with no relevant feelings about the game, then I would say their "argument" -is- invalid. Maybe not to you.

 

Careful. Dont feed the trolls. Those people come here after any unpopular/braindead decision from the devs and start to attack everyone criticizing it and spam every topic with the same posts (only different words).

[MystyqeofXev]

Did you clock in with Blizzard, er, Microsoft, before you posted. 😂

 

Whoa, now why you have to bring Bill into this?

[Shwarzchild]

Careful. Dont feed the trolls. Those people come here after any unpopular/braindead decision from the devs and start to attack everyone criticizing it and spam every topic with the same posts (only different words).

 

you do realize that your classification can be put towards basically all of us. People disagree with some of the points. It is what it is. They're generally no more trolls than those who come to any thread and say "The NiM Coven did it!"

[supercometl]

Careful. Dont feed the trolls. Those people come here after any unpopular/braindead decision from the devs and start to attack everyone criticizing it and spam every topic with the same posts (only different words).

 

Just like how any positive feedback is assumed to be trolls and spammed down, because you can't possibly have a nuanced opinion.

 

One of the exercises I suggest is to ask "what are these changes changing, and what reason do these changes seem to be targeting". I feel a lot of the time players see a change and immediately list the negatives of the changes without asking what the positives are. The class changes are rough, I try not to sugar coat it. However, by trying to understand where the devs are coming from your feedback can meet them halfway. Devs want to scale back DcDs and are doing this by changing how the utility points work. They aren't just removing defensives and calling it a day, they are forcing the player to make a choice in their defensives, but also makes said defensives better, and increases the offensive capability of classes.

 

Lets use chaff flair as an example. They are "gutting" it as a dcd for mercs, right? Well yes. But it also is buffing it by making it when you select the utility you get the best of both worlds, 2 absorb shields that can be cheese for things like doom on dreadguards, and has the 35% defense chance for 6 seconds once those two absorb shields are used. So now you can play IO merc against dreadguards which probably is better, assuming the supercharge changes with concentrated fire get brought over with a legendary item, as now they can cheese doom with chaff flair, though iirc I think they could do that with reflect anyway, but more options is always good.

 

See how it isn't all doom and gloom? You can take a measured response to the changes. See some good with the bad. The gearing system got an update also according to a dev post with now guaranteed boss drops, something that was painful to be missing on pts, and it is a change to support alts. more than anything, something that players were worried about. The devs are listening, but you can't expect a radical change in plans this late into the game, and yes the most recent pts launch was too late. The guardian pts was super important and we saw bioware listen *for the most part*. As much as I dislike the choice between reflect and blade blitz, it makes sense. Both do the "same thing" disrupt damage for a few seconds and in turn allow for cheese. Reflect is single target only but lasts longer, blitz can deal with AoE but is much shorter. My critique is more that blade blitz tends to have more utility as it is also a movement ability, and I feel it would have been better to remove blade blitz's dodge aspect and give jugg a brand new ability that fit's blitz's dcd purpose.

 

Edit:

Just wanted to respond to this quote:

It was the same spiel with the new Social Window. There was a huge outcry on the forums and anyone who did not chime into the chant that it is the worst thing ever and that it should be immediately reverted back to the former state got attacked on an obscene scale. Even more obscene was that some of the people flinging mud left and right had the audacity to claim victim status because mud had been flung right back at them. It is quite telling that no one is talking about said Social Window anymore. Let's see how the people on this forum will talk about the changes in 7.0 when the dust has settled.

 

With the social window there was a big issue with glitches that weren't being widespread, so the feedback of "I like it" or "it is fine with me" in a poster who is having issues is going to look like pointless feedback cluttering up the channels. I was one of the people that didn't have huge issues, but to this day there are issues with the new social window with scaling and it not being a proper part of the ui editor.

 

These issues also are extending to the new UI with 7.0. what used to be fairly small windows now basically taking up your whole screen if you are at 1080p 16:9 or lower. The problems still exist, but at some point posters give up on trying to get fixes and just deal.

Edited January 28, 2022 by supercometl

[ExarSun]

Just like how any positive feedback is assumed to be trolls and spammed down, because you can't possibly have a nuanced opinion.

 

One of the exercises I suggest is to ask "what are these changes changing, and what reason do these changes seem to be targeting". I feel a lot of the time players see a change and immediately list the negatives of the changes without asking what the positives are. The class changes are rough, I try not to sugar coat it. However, by trying to understand where the devs are coming from your feedback can meet them halfway. Devs want to scale back DcDs and are doing this by changing how the utility points work. They aren't just removing defensives and calling it a day, they are forcing the player to make a choice in their defensives, but also makes said defensives better, and increases the offensive capability of classes.

 

Lets use chaff flair as an example. They are "gutting" it as a dcd for mercs, right? Well yes. But it also is buffing it by making it when you select the utility you get the best of both worlds, 2 absorb shields that can be cheese for things like doom on dreadguards, and has the 35% defense chance for 6 seconds once those two absorb shields are used. So now you can play IO merc against dreadguards which probably is better, assuming the supercharge changes with concentrated fire get brought over with a legendary item, as now they can cheese doom with chaff flair, though iirc I think they could do that with reflect anyway, but more options is always good.

 

See how it isn't all doom and gloom? You can take a measured response to the changes. See some good with the bad. The gearing system got an update also according to a dev post with now guaranteed boss drops, something that was painful to be missing on pts, and it is a change to support alts. more than anything, something that players were worried about. The devs are listening, but you can't expect a radical change in plans this late into the game, and yes the most recent pts launch was too late. The guardian pts was super important and we saw bioware listen *for the most part*. As much as I dislike the choice between reflect and blade blitz, it makes sense. Both do the "same thing" disrupt damage for a few seconds and in turn allow for cheese. Reflect is single target only but lasts longer, blitz can deal with AoE but is much shorter. My critique is more that blade blitz tends to have more utility as it is also a movement ability, and I feel it would have been better to remove blade blitz's dodge aspect and give jugg a brand new ability that fit's blitz's dcd purpose.

 

All right....I will entertain this for a short while, although being pointless.

 

Class nerfs. No comment on Operatives? How come? They not losing anything major and getting buffed is no biggie? This lame exuse about DPS Guardian .. o boo hoo they gave back some skills and made up some choices but the class feels weak and gutted as ever. No sane person will play it on even remotely competitive PVE and PVP. How about that? Reducing DCD is one thing ( actually i was in favour of this, because characters were becoming unkillable in regs) but this total nerfhammer and simplifying is another. Its just bad design. No other words to say about it. I have been playing Guardian from 2013 and i have not seen so disgustingly gutted my favorite class. It seems some manbuns dont know how to play against melee and would like their favourite (cough cough Operative) class to shine some more.

 

Gearing - loooool. How about not being able to use cartel market weapons because no outfitter and non modable gearing??????? Non modable gearing!!! Is this real life though...Horrible stat distribution on the gear pieces. Grind. Gear being locked out by content. Imagine thinking people wont be running the same weeklies/FP and instead all are going to go play OPS - never happening. Gear is a total mess. Patching some non-important wounds does not make for a inherently bad system.

 

What else...Hmm. Shortest story and content for an expansion? Horrible level sync? Conquest changes? So...yeah...what else..

[supercometl]

All right....I will entertain this for a short while, although being pointless.

 

Class nerfs. No comment on Operatives? How come? They not losing anything major and getting buffed is no biggie? This lame exuse about DPS Guardian .. o boo hoo they gave back some skills and made up some choices but the class feels weak and gutted as ever. No sane person will play it on even remotely competitive PVE and PVP. How about that? Reducing DCD is one thing ( actually i was in favour of this, because characters were becoming unkillable in regs) but this total nerfhammer and simplifying is another. Its just bad design. No other words to say about it. I have been playing Guardian from 2013 and i have not seen so disgustingly gutted my favorite class. It seems some manbuns dont know how to play against melee and would like their favourite (cough cough Operative) class to shine some more.

 

Gearing - loooool. How about not being able to use cartel market weapons because no outfitter and non modable gearing??????? Non modable gearing!!! Is this real life though...Horrible stat distribution on the gear pieces. Grind. Gear being locked out by content. Imagine thinking people wont be running the same weeklies/FP and instead all are going to go play OPS - never happening. Gear is a total mess. Patching some non-important wounds does not make for a inherently bad system.

 

What else...Hmm. Shortest story and content for an expansion? Horrible level sync? Conquest changes? So...yeah...what else..

 

Okay lets do this I guess. Operatives are losing their DR on stim boost for concealment, if you think this isn't a major nerf, IDK where you are living. The devs actually had to give it back to lethality as lethality has been doodoo in pvp purely due to it's lackluster dcds outside of absorb shield. Evasion is good of course, but as most damage is yellow, and blow for blow being fairly expensive compared to most of the utilities, yeah no. Also no mention of losing their hard stun and soft stun to choices. Operative has not had major cheese, so they didn't need as much balancing is the thing. You do dreadguards on an operative that isn't concealment, you NEED to have a sin shroud you, heck even as concealment you probably should shroud as rolling doom is easier said than done. I do think god rolls on concealment are an issue, but if you did make that a choice, then all operatives would just spec into it, which would be worse. Also I mainly dps pvp on merc, so don't act like my preferred pvp class isn't getting some nerfs.

 

The cartel market weapons/weapon outfitter being broken at launch, check my post history as that seems to be what you guys do, I am not happy about it. Like. DUH. Non-moddable gear is dumb, I dislike how they are dealing with it. However, in the most recent dev post they made it clear that it basically is just "use other classes gear as enhancement min maxing". So it isn't like this type of gearing is new, it is just 5.8 gearing again, which sucked. I LIKE, the way they are handling set bonuses, I think it fits the "idea" behind 6.0 very well. Legit the last 7.0 pts reminded me a LOT of going through the last 6.0 PTS. A lot of things that were working, with some things that didn't. I will probably never enjoy the irating grind they have had since 6.0, but like with 6.0 it basically is a one time grind. Yes, you will most likely have to swap 1-2 pieces of main gear with another class to get a better tertiary layout, congrats we are back to 5.x gearing, but now without changing out mods/armorings/barrels.

 

Level sync... what? It is a better level sync system in 7.0. They gutted the old code and put in new code. Like, do I need to defend it, old system bad, new system slightly less bad. Leveling is a different issue, and I still have no idea why the devs insist on increasing level cap when there is nothing new in those abilities, it just makes leveling feel worse. Though, they did fix a lot of classes leveling paths, PT tank comes to mind first where instead of one of their last abilities being fire fall, it is now one of their first. Oil slick should have never been so high up in the leveling. Great ability, not as important when low level.

 

Conquest changes. This I probably can't touch as much, because I just never really cared about conquest outside of finishing the amount needed to stay in a guild/get my weekly rewards. going up to 100k seems fine to me. Still a lot of daily and infinitely repeatable objectives.

 

Though the changes to weeklies, not a fan. I am "okay" with the changes with heroic weeklies, not so much with daily area weeklies, even if I don't do them anymore as I have finished all the reputations.

 

The length of the expansion also is yet to be seen. Mek-sha was a tiny planet, so kinda a weird flex to act like this expansion will be so much smaller. Though the split of 7.0 and 7.1 is noted, based on the time difference they were expecting originally, one month between original launch and 7.1 launch, I don't really know what to think. If it launches within a month of 7.0 launch, good. If not, they should have delayed 7.0 again.

 

So yeah, I am still "positive" on a lot of features of the expansion, while still having some major criticism. I am not an expert on guardian, I do tank with immortal as I play all the tanks up in regards to HM content, but that's kinda it. leveling with focus really put a sour taste for guardian so I have only messed with vigilance to a certain extent, considering they haven't been messing too much with rotationals and fillers, after they gave back saber throw (which was my main reference). I don't skank tank immortal btw, just some alacrity since immortal is the dodge tank out of the three so they need less defensive stats in general.

 

Oh but I am just a bioware shill that is automated. So no way I could have negative opinions.

[Savej]

And that is exactly your problem. You are denying that there could even be players with relevant feelings about this game who simply don't hate the changes as much as you do without automatically being a paid shill. You are creating a conversation in which anyone who disagrees with you is automatically suspect and not worthy of an argument in the first place.

 

I didn't deny anything. I never said "everyone" who disagrees with me is a paid shill - far from it. I said there's one poster in this thread who probably is - there are plenty others I disagree with in this thread and I'm definitely not sure about the one... You're accusing me of making assumption and jumping to conclusions without reading or understanding my post or my points. Irony.

[Phazonfreak]

I didn't deny anything. I never said "everyone" who disagrees with me is a paid shill - far from it. I said there's one poster in this thread who probably is - there are plenty others I disagree with in this thread and I'm definitely not sure about the one... You're accusing me of making assumption and jumping to conclusions without reading or understanding my post or my points. Irony.

 

Yes, this is indeed ironic considering that you immediately made assumptions and jumped to conclusions in your very first comment in this thread about the validity of other posters instead of simply discussing the validity of their claims. And that is the extremely annoying part in a lot of discussions here on these forums.

 

I get that some of you are bad players, you hate having options you can't use and since you can't use them no one else should have them either. If you want to right now you can take buttons off your toolbar but that's too hard for you, you need Bioware to do it to everyone, right?

 

What a surefire way to start off a healthy discussion.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Phazonfreak

[Phazonfreak]

Disregard Edited January 29, 2022 by Phazonfreak

[Phazonfreak]

Double post

[Savej]

Yes, this is indeed ironic considering that you immediately made assumptions and jumped to conclusions in your very first comment in this thread about the validity of other posters instead of simply discussing the validity of their claims. And that is the extremely annoying part in a lot of discussions here on these forums.

 

 

 

What a surefire way to start off a healthy discussion.

 

Which "1st comment"? If someone is a paid shill their opinion is worthless. Right or wrong? Troll opinions are worthless too. Paid shills do exist. Trolls do exist. Right or wrong? If someone checks off a lot of "paid shill" or troll boxes for me I'm going to guess that person is one. Same deal with a lot of social media - the bad actors are not going to announce themselves. The worst of them will never publicly admit to anything. But many do give themselves away if you pay attention.

[MystyqeofXev]

Which "1st comment"? If someone is a paid shill their opinion is worthless. Right or wrong? Troll opinions are worthless too. Paid shills do exist. Trolls do exist. Right or wrong? If someone checks off a lot of "paid shill" or troll boxes for me I'm going to guess that person is one. Same deal with a lot of social media - the bad actors are not going to announce themselves. The worst of them will never publicly admit to anything. But many do give themselves away if you pay attention.

 

Oh, how this rings true with NFTs and MMOs.

 

BUllseye

[supercometl]

Which "1st comment"? If someone is a paid shill their opinion is worthless. Right or wrong? Troll opinions are worthless too. Paid shills do exist. Trolls do exist. Right or wrong? If someone checks off a lot of "paid shill" or troll boxes for me I'm going to guess that person is one. Same deal with a lot of social media - the bad actors are not going to announce themselves. The worst of them will never publicly admit to anything. But many do give themselves away if you pay attention.

 

Can you actually "call out" who you think are paid shills. At what level is someone a paid shill? Saying positive aspects of an update are positive, negative aspects of an update are negative and some changes that aren't really in either camp just changes.

 

Heck, if all the positive feedback is paid shills for bioware, does this in turn mean all the negative feedback is paid shills for the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, with it's trial that includes the awards winning first two expansions? I know I have seen people who have been pushing it since 7.0 PTS has gone around. Or maybe it is just players have their own opinions on things and some of the changes are the last straw for them , and for others they either don't care, or they think the changes could be a net positive.

[MystyqeofXev]

 

Heck, if all the positive feedback is paid shills for bioware, does this in turn mean all the negative feedback is paid shills for the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, with it's trial that includes the awards winning first two expansions? I.

 

I rather doubt FF has to pay people to "shill" for their game. They're probably too busy adding servers post WoW self-destruction.

[TevosisHot]

Can you actually "call out" who you think are paid shills. At what level is someone a paid shill? Saying positive aspects of an update are positive, negative aspects of an update are negative and some changes that aren't really in either camp just changes.

 

Heck, if all the positive feedback is paid shills for bioware, does this in turn mean all the negative feedback is paid shills for the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, with it's trial that includes the awards winning first two expansions? I know I have seen people who have been pushing it since 7.0 PTS has gone around. Or maybe it is just players have their own opinions on things and some of the changes are the last straw for them , and for others they either don't care, or they think the changes could be a net positive.

 

I dunno if there are shills, but sure as hell there's a lot of 2 post account in these forums coming out of the woodwork with the "oh i dont do end game stuff so this update is perfect for me and people should stop complaining" wich to me reeks of troll.

[supercometl]

I rather doubt FF has to pay people to "shill" for their game. They're probably too busy adding servers post WoW self-destruction.

 

I was being facetious to point out the ridiculousness of how whenever positive feedback is brought up paid shills are also brought up.

 

I dunno if there are shills, but sure as hell there's a lot of 2 post account in these forums coming out of the woodwork with the "oh i dont do end game stuff so this update is perfect for me and people should stop complaining" wich to me reeks of troll.

 

If you think someone is a shill, say so. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Don't be rude or anything, just bring up their posting record, it isn't like the information is hidden or anything. Heck, bring up my posts around the hk-55 mission being time machine locked prior to it getting added to the cartel market. I know those were some spicy takes during that time period.

[Phazonfreak]

Which "1st comment"? If someone is a paid shill their opinion is worthless. Right or wrong? Troll opinions are worthless too. Paid shills do exist. Trolls do exist. Right or wrong? If someone checks off a lot of "paid shill" or troll boxes for me I'm going to guess that person is one. Same deal with a lot of social media - the bad actors are not going to announce themselves. The worst of them will never publicly admit to anything. But many do give themselves away if you pay attention.

 

If being the crucial word here. Yes, there are trolls and shills and white knights and whatever term the online community keeps creating to classify people writing their opinions on social media and the forums. The point is that it poisons a discussion if you immediately attack the other side with remarks that target their character or motive without having any information to back that up simply as a ploy to invalidate their opinions. And you did that in your first comment about the people posting in this thread by calling them bad or getting payed by BioWare before you actually started with your arguments.

[TevosisHot]

I was being facetious to point out the ridiculousness of how whenever positive feedback is brought up paid shills are also brought up.

 

 

 

If you think someone is a shill, say so. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Don't be rude or anything, just bring up their posting record, it isn't like the information is hidden or anything. Heck, bring up my posts around the hk-55 mission being time machine locked prior to it getting added to the cartel market. I know those were some spicy takes during that time period.

 

Pretty sure that's against the tos of the forums, and it's also not so hard to find those post by yourself either.

[TrixxieTriss]

Can you actually "call out" who you think are paid shills.

 

No, I would advise against it because that is against the TOS.

[supercometl]

Pretty sure that's against the tos of the forums, and it's also not so hard to find those post by yourself either.

 

I will admit it is more toeing the line than most. However, there is a difference from saying. "Dude your post history is super short, maybe stay a while before you act like your opinion supersedes others" and "Hey everyone, this dude is a shill, if you ever see him make fun of him". One is doing a check, the other is harrassment. Especially if the person is just going to then start saying "people in these forums are shills, I am not directly talking about you, the person I am quoting, but there are a bunch of shills here. You can find them if you look"

 

Edit:

No, I would advise against it because that is against the TOS.

It actually is not. I could have phrased it better, but the "call out" portion seems, based on my interpretation of the consolidated guidelines not the official rules of conduct it is summarizing, it has to do with the harassment policy. Which is about intent. The "call out" is in reference to targeted harassment in Rules of Conduct. My point in saying is that the poster who is calling out a nebulous group of "shills" has no basis for it. The best outcome is players stop putting people's own opinion down, so yes, probably don't call people shills on the forums. It is rude, which is the essence behind the summary of the rules of conduct. It is kinda my way of saying calling people shills isn't productive, respond to the person's statement directly instead, but thank you for taking my poorly worded statement out of context.

Edited January 29, 2022 by supercometl

[Tausos]

This "vast majority of players hate the new changes"....By looking at the forums and everyone who has posted that they "hate the new changes", guess what?

 

This enormous majority people are peaking of?

 

Is only 100 players, 200 would be an extreme, extremely unlikely amount.

 

Since when is even 200 players of tens of thousands people playing even close to "a vast majority"? That's barely a drop in the bucket of the entire player base.

 

Sorry to say, but you're not at all even close to a majority. Not by a long shot.

 

All I see is some people starting multiple threads and the same 100ish people parroting what they already said.

 

This is absolutely sad that the people predicting and saying "everyone hates it", when this is not remotely true in the slightest, not even in the same solar system to be close to all people playing. What I see here is....

 

A bunch of people whining that their "easy mode" is going to be nerfed.

 

Complaints about losing skills they really really want, but are not required for that class.

Complaints about Conquest doubling. Really? I make 100k just doing the 5 very fp.

 

Now raiding will actually mean something again, so no more easy mode to get 306 gear specifically from flashpoints. And don't get me started on Operations....when I was forced to leave nearly 5 years ago (been back since like June 2021; people would solicit doing hm ops on fleet. All I see people doing now is sm ops. And multiple times I have tried to get a TC group to do hm, directly after doing sm. I can never get the people because no one really wants or needs to do hm ops. And TC is likely the easiest if you JUST DID sm. Exit, OPs leader sets it to hm and run back in. And its nearly identical.

 

So at most what I see vet players doing now is TC sm, 5 vet FP, 3 hm FP and then they are gone. This is all more about people having to do more work, rather than sit on "easy mode" forever.

 

I myself am looking forward to the changes as are a multitude of others, people complaining may think they are the majority, but I got news for these people.....You're not even a small fraction of a fraction of a fraction of an even smaller fraction of the entire player-base. Even if the player-base was only 20k, which we all know its much much higher. Also, there is a suggestion board where this kind of stuff belongs. So to echo my older post reply, to me, this is all about attention seeking and getting other players in a circle to agree and sniff each others farts.

 

TL:DR : You're not the majority, you're losing easy mode and each character will now have to work for their weekly conquest points. And you will have to raid, likely at minimum sm, but more likely hm to get the top gear. It wont just be handed out through TC and Hammer Station.

 

Also, these posts absolutely yell attention seekers, since these suggestions are never posted in the correct forum for suggestions. That forum and PTS forum are there specifically FOR this kind of post.

 

Stop attention seeking and trying to act like you're the majority when it is plainly obvious you're not even close to the majority. Not by a long shot.