Been gone from game along time ... just resubbed .... but man ABILITY BLOAT IS REAL

[Trushott]

I ressubbed after a many year's long absence to get some new toons ready only because getting to choose two combat styles and start with one from another traditional ​ class sounds really cool and i want to explore that.

 

I am bummed i seem to have subbed 2 months early now with today's delay announcement but that's not a huge deal.

 

What is a bigger deal than i remember is ability bloat.,,,,, i left swtor years ago and have played a lot of MMOs to fill the time since then like WOW, and ESO and a few others i have accounts for. i didn't realize how bad SWTOR was in this regard. i mean some of these classes have so many abilities that you should use in pvp or OPS to be competitive but man it's a lot compared to all the other AAA mmos ... WOW fixed their ability bloat a long time ago and it's a lot more enjoyable game now.

 

i think SWTOR could use a small amount of trimming in this department across most classes ... there are some redundant abilities that could just frankly be combined or made passive for a more streamlined enjoyable experience without so many APM and wrist cramps LOL

 

anyway, it's just a constructive critique that could make the game better for most i think and more in line with the other AAA mmo experiences and thought i would share

 

SWTOR is still the most enjoyable mmo from a story standpoint in operation after 10 years, so it has a lot going for it and i forgot how much i loved it and glad to be back

 

Don't bash me too hard for pointing out something i feel could be done to make game a little better but i have big shoulders if you must lol

Edited December 8, 2021 by Trushott

[EnufThree]

Pretty sure the new update will remove some abilities.

[YTTHYTTH]

As noted already, some of the changes on the public test server indicate this is a direction they are heading.

[DWho]

I don't know. I've never had an issue with too many abilities. There are some I never use, but I'm sure someone else might use them in a "rotation". I have 10 offensive abilities on one toolbar and 4 defensives on another and that seem to work out fine. The nice thing about having a lot of abilities to choose from is variety. Not every Combat Sentinel looks exactly the same in combat that way (they will under 7.0 due to very limited and sometimes useless abilities that have been assigned to that class). No one forces you to use all your abilities. Just use the ones you like.

[Savej]

Wow has more buttons. Wow classic especially. FFXIV has about the same number as SWTOR. ESO is a console game and you manage other things in that which SWTOR doesn't have. SWTOR has added ... 3 buttons to dps knight/warriors since launch? And they've removed some too.

 

If you've been gone for a few years it's usually a good idea to play around with a new character for a little while until you remember things or figure them out again.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Savej

[Strathkin]

Well your 1 of the small few who actually wants less abilities. They all had a purpose, and many weren't always damage based or even high damage. Still if you haven't played in a few years most only gains 2-3 after several years; so by no means a huge ability bloat as suggested! And now were loosing 2 that many class relied on, mostly as they helped Proc other abilities.

 

Not to mention loosing Combat Proficiency, which will make most class feel a lot slower and fun to play; while also being identical to everyone else in that discipline.

 

Also it's clear when WoW reduced abilities, players left in large # since... ...and as the guy above me stated, WoW still has more buttons (abilities) than SWTOR.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Strathkin

[ralphieceaser]

Dont you use an mmo mouse? It is standard for mmorpgs to have this many abilities.

 

And 7.0 is removing some but not that many, some are just being added to the talent tree and removed as baseline so overall, you will have a few less utility buttons but most of them dps gameplay remains the same.

 

Mmorpgs are not mobas thankfully, you need buttons for different situations otherwise you should try ff14 where everything is choreographed so you have barely any utility and just dps all day and never have to think about how to approach an encounter because the answer is always obvious and it is just getting used to the choreography.

 

FFXIV has about the same number as SWTOR. .

Just a note on this, but FF14 might have the same number of buttons yet unlike swtor and many classic mmorpgs, 95% of those buttons are part of the constant dps gameplay rather than cool utilities, stuns, mobility abilities, defensives and other forms of situational utilities.

That means that you use almost all the buttons while playing as a DPS and dont have much choice when it comes to approaching an encounter.

[DarthCasus]

Remove what isn't pertinent to your rotations and you're good.

 

Problem solved.

[arunav]

Out of curiosity: what is your main class, and when did you last play?

[MystyqeofXev]

I ressubbed after a many year's long absence to get some new toons ready only because getting to choose two combat styles and start with one from another traditional ​ class sounds really cool and i want to explore that.

 

I am bummed i seem to have subbed 2 months early now with today's delay announcement but that's not a huge deal.

 

What is a bigger deal than i remember is ability bloat.,,,,, i left swtor years ago and have played a lot of MMOs to fill the time since then like WOW, and ESO and a few others i have accounts for. i didn't realize how bad SWTOR was in this regard. i mean some of these classes have so many abilities that you should use in pvp or OPS to be competitive but man it's a lot compared to all the other AAA mmos ... WOW fixed their ability bloat a long time ago and it's a lot more enjoyable game now.

 

i think SWTOR could use a small amount of trimming in this department across most classes ... there are some redundant abilities that could just frankly be combined or made passive for a more streamlined enjoyable experience without so many APM and wrist cramps LOL

 

anyway, it's just a constructive critique that could make the game better for most i think and more in line with the other AAA mmo experiences and thought i would share

 

SWTOR is still the most enjoyable mmo from a story standpoint in operation after 10 years, so it has a lot going for it and i forgot how much i loved it and glad to be back

 

Don't bash me too hard for pointing out something i feel could be done to make game a little better but i have big shoulders if you must lol

 

Respectfully disagree.

 

In WoW, up until BFA, my UI had 12 abilities (mapped to my mouse) that were straight combat, CC break, or interrupt.

 

THEN, I had, at least 60 other buttons that saw use at least once a day, or during trash / Boss pulls.

 

SWTOR is nowhere near that, and the removal of utility, or anything else will cause problems. (I've seen this before)

[joshuadyal]

I kinda like having options, although I only use about an ability bar and a half worth of abilities in most combats. I'm worried that if they trimmed them, they'll trim the ones I like instead of the ones that I don't care about. I'd be in favor of leaving them in.

 

I'm pretty salty and bitter about the credit bloat, though. The GTN is practically useless to most "normal" players now, because almost everything is priced out of reach.

 

Eh... not to change the subject, just because it also uses the word bloat. Sorry!

[snordoc]

I'm not familiar with other MMO and don't know what a normal number of abilities could be, but it's a fact that there are too many abilities in SWTOR to be able to use them all or even place them all in the ability bars. However, you only need to consult a guide for your class on the internet to find out which abilities are really needed and optimize your rotation accordingly. For most classes only a few abilities are useful.

[Cedia]

Pretty sure the new update will remove some abilities.

 

Not enough, in my opionion.

 

Quite honestly, I believe that the people screaming about abilities being removed are only upset because their God-mode abilities are being removed.

[TheVoyant]

I'm not familiar with other MMO and don't know what a normal number of abilities could be, but it's a fact that there are too many abilities in SWTOR to be able to use them all or even place them all in the ability bars. However, you only need to consult a guide for your class on the internet to find out which abilities are really needed and optimize your rotation accordingly. For most classes only a few abilities are useful.

 

Maybe 3 quickbars for abilities if that. I've all six quickbars hotkey'd as do many others.

 

Bloat isn't a fact its a perception and preference. Personally I think the ability count is just right, and I play primarily Merc & Sorc.

 

I find most people who feel bloat are primarily locked behind keybind set ups. For example I can access all 3 combat quickbars with my mouse alone (16 side buttons alone) but one could easily just use shift/ctrl/alt modifiers to make things easy as well.

 

The problem is that they're showing no signs of any sort of sensible merging of abilities so talk of pruning just will lead to quality drop. As they will just remove or reduce things versus consolidate effectively.

 

The game is so well balanced in most aspects right now its gonna be two steps backward imo.

[DarkMatterSlifus]

You're essentially spamming a handful of buttons at one time it's basically the same as any other MMO, I don't feel there is that much bloat. In 7.0 they are removing some abilities but I feel like in doing so they are removing what makes that class unique and special. You will have less options in the skill tree so it's going to be more restrictive in what you choose which I absolutely hate. I'm happy with how it is right now

[MystyqeofXev]

Not enough, in my opionion.

 

Quite honestly, I believe that the people screaming about abilities being removed are only upset because their God-mode abilities are being removed.

 

What "God-Mode" abilities are you talking about?

[demotivator]

Maining a healer I can tell that for easily 75% of the player base, defensive cooldowns are indeed part of ability bloat. So that kind of thread is no surprise.

[Cedia]

What "God-Mode" abilities are you talking about?

 

The multiple defensive abilities that the devs have said they are pruning because certain classes are able to do things that they shouldn't be able to do. Look it up for yourself, don't put the onus on me to prove it to you, since I was only stating my opinion.

[ralphieceaser]

The multiple defensive abilities that the devs have said they are pruning because certain classes are able to do things that they shouldn't be able to do. Look it up for yourself, don't put the onus on me to prove it to you, since I was only stating my opinion.

*Looks at mercs being able to have all 3 of their major godmode defensives*

 

I dont disagree with your point, toolkits were getting a bit too much, but considering mercs barely got touched in that area....

Edited December 9, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[Savej]

The multiple defensive abilities that the devs have said they are pruning because certain classes are able to do things that they shouldn't be able to do. Look it up for yourself, don't put the onus on me to prove it to you, since I was only stating my opinion.

 

The impression I'm getting from you is "whatever the devs did or didn't do, that's my opinion".

 

Can you tell me why my guardian who's had saber reflect since 2013 and blade blitz since 2015 suddenly can't do them now? And if those abilities are "too much" then why am I able to pick them if I'm ok with eliminating something else I've been able to do on my current live guardians for over five years. We've heard two different answers from three devs about why they're doing the pruning (reset game balance or make the game more accessible) but neither of those answers really lines up with the actual changes which seem more like arbitrary nerfs, mostly to classes with already the least utility and power compared to some others which didn't get hit nearly as hard and perform much better in measurable things like dps leaderboards and ranked pvp.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Savej

[oslek]

I don't know. I've never had an issue with too many abilities. There are some I never use, but I'm sure someone else might use them in a "rotation". I have 10 offensive abilities on one toolbar and 4 defensives on another and that seem to work out fine. The nice thing about having a lot of abilities to choose from is variety. Not every Combat Sentinel looks exactly the same in combat that way (they will under 7.0 due to very limited and sometimes useless abilities that have been assigned to that class). No one forces you to use all your abilities. Just use the ones you like.

 

This has always been my attitude. I like having options when I play.

 

There are abilities I don't use. So what? Some one else is. I just remove the abilities I don't use from the bars and carry on.

 

It's also interesting that the OP brought up WOW because they ended up bringing many of those abilities back in Shadowlands because...OOPS......those abilities that were removed were actually missed by a great many players.

Edited December 10, 2021 by oslek