Ideas for Credit Sinks

[tritiya]

Increasing the creditcosts/adding more continuous credit sinks is going to hurt low income players. Prices in the game are stable, only prices on the GTN increase and inflate faster than the Universe. Transportation (Speeders/Fuel for ships) costs don't increase. Food items, Green Mods (planets and fleet vendors), Vendor sold speeders and Legacy unlocks don't change their prices. The prices increase only on the GTN. If we exclude GTN form the equation money don't lose it's value over time and players are getting richer. Players gain more than they spend in the game (not GTN) and if that remained the case we would be swimming in billions (even free-to-play would have billions in legacy/escrow). So for the low income player the largest credit sink is the GTN and money go to the sellers/speculators and the tax system. A crafter can make 100 dyes and sell each one for 50,000 and let's say 80 players (both free-to-play and subs) buy the dyes (some people may purchase more than 1 dye). The crafter makes 5 million (or 4 million if we factor the taxes). And if this is done often that said crafter will be a billionaire sooner or later. Large sums of money are being obtained and exchanged between rich players themselves (for Cartel Market items or crafted valuable goods). Aside from maintanance/travel costs and a few moreexpensive speeders, low income players spend their hundreds of thousands buying things from crafters and some Cartel Market items sellers (mainly bronze or not popular items).

A lot of bronze\silver CM items sell for less than a million. Most of the expensive items sold on the GTN are not required or helpful for the gameplay (exceptions are stims/adrenals, some other gameplay consumables and Augments). Most of the 100-millions credits items are cosmetics and/or decorations. There are chepa speeders for less than a million from the vendors and some CM speeders sell cheap on the GTN too, Speeder piloting maks them faster, not credits paid for the speeder.

 

Long sory short: inflation exists only on the GTN, otherwise players would be getting richer and money won't be a problem (may be for the new players, but sooner or later they would become rich too).

Conquest is really contributing to credit inflow/generation. If we play only 1 character it won't matter, but if we have 30+alts... this makes 3 million per week only by selling the 25k certificates. And the conquest alsogives some credits and the objectives themselves aslo generate quite a lot (if high level characters complete them). So 30+ lv.75 characters would generate quite a lot of credits form conquest only. Adding loot (creds, trash) and rewards from completeng missions... And if thet income is spend buiyng crafted goods and CM items, players, selling said goods will be swimming, no, drowning in credits. I don't see that as a problem for the CM items,let them cost billions, but crafted goods may be becoming less and less acessible to low income players. So a revamp of the crafting system and crafting and economy may be needed, may be crafting should be made more casual friendly and mats to be obtained with credits or other currencies, like it's now with java junk and parts. Gathering the nodes isn't easy because a lot of players may be competing for them and combat and waiting for them to respawn takes time and some of the nodes are glitched.

Another thing which won't fix the inflationprobel but willmake prices seem more reasonable is a redenomination of all credits: balances and prices too. Why a food item would cost 2000 and reward for a mission would be let's say 9000, too many used numbers and space, if balances, rewards and costs are reduced by 100 (just removing two or even 3 zeroes) wouldmake prices look more reasonable but the difficulty obtaining and spending credits won't change at all. In SW lore there is a decicred (1/10th of a credit) and in real life dollars have cents, why not introduce a decimal point (some other games have 100/100/1, which means 100 "A" makes 1 "B", and 100 "B" makes 1 "C" so it's not impossible to have sometjhing like that. in the movies 800 creds or 20000 creds is quit a lot, here even inthe base game (GTN excluded) Nerf Spiced Milk costs 100 credits...

 

Conquest is just doing some things and being paid extra, makes sence credit rewards are decreased (but why cut XP rewards?). Now there isn't any reson for me to complete conquest (and the 100k points requirement, will ignore it all together).

Credits in the game aren't distributed evenly, low income players buy items crafted en mass and the crafters/resellers are getting richer and richer.

Rich players buy expensive itmes so credits move between them or these who sell cartelmarket items (crates, expensive armours. Having alot of companions and crafting and sell a lot orobtaining Cartel Coins and buyng hypercrates or other expensive CM items is the way for a low income player to become a billionaire.

GTN tax is a two edged knife (or sword). Cuts value from the items being sold, but sellers and resellers (speculants) keep the tax inmind and just reajust their prices.

Crafting is not very intuitive for the casual players, and it's a good source of income for these people who have more time to play and level it up on a lot of alt characters, but for casual players crafting costs moretime and credits if they buy crafted goods (Dyes, crystals...) from the other crafters.

With enough patience and a subscribtion anyone can make a lot of money, may be not billions, but who knows.

Even without much inflation nobody should expect to buy Cartel Market items from the GTN cheap,it doesn't make sence.

Dividing the prices, rewards, balances and base costs in the game by a large number will make the numbers look small and more organised (it's one of the reasons countries with hyperinflated currencies cut zeroes).

 

Sorry for the long post, just my 2 creds here on the prices and rewards in the game.

[Sir_Troll]

I think items that are temporary or consumable and offer a perk or buff would really make good credit sinks to remove credits from the economy. One idea I had would be a special vendor on fleet that sold various power ups and temporary perks. Examples would be a power-up that increased speeder speed to 150% for 30 seconds and a power up that doubled the rocket boost duration. These could sell for 25K and be consumed after 1 use. An example of a temporary perk would be a shuttle beacon you could place and activate from the game map, It would work like quick travel, but take you to a spot you picked. Sell it for 50K for a short term use or 1mil+ to add an unlocked travel hub to you map permanently.

 

I don't know if any of these are possible, but consumable perks and buffs should make good credit sinks.

[DarkTergon]

The problem is, no matter how good a credit sink is, if it's tied to a shiny, or story, or reward, or something one person can get, that another can't , without the credits, you'll have people crying here, on the forums, or discord, or reddit, or whatever, that BW, are excluding them and they can't get it, etc, etc,

[JakRoanin]

A Character Perk for a "god-bot" in all SM FP's would be great People could finally finish the Shroud Heroic. LOL

[MystyqeofXev]

The problem is, no matter how good a credit sink is, if it's tied to a shiny, or story, or reward, or something one person can get, that another can't , without the credits, you'll have people crying here, on the forums, or discord, or reddit, or whatever, that BW, are excluding them and they can't get it, etc, etc,

 

+ 1

[robwettengel]

The key is to remove credits from the game by providing players with something that they feel is of comparable value.

 

1. New vendors in the Cartel Bazaar to sell (archived) gear pieces and schematics that are no longer available in the game unless a crafter who has the gear in their archive decides to produce it and put it on the GTN. Rotate these gear pieces, weapons, crystals, etc. and their schematics on separate vendors. Change what the vendors offer weekly or biweekly. The transactions should only be via credits--no new currency, no jawa junk, no tech frags.

 

2. Weekend CM sales for credits. Say 70M-100M per armor set, and similar or same prices for deco sets. The items are BoP. The full CC price for adding the item to an entire account would remain the same. I know that this could harm the profitability of the game, so I recommend using this only once a year and target it for a weekend that has historically been a low-point for CC purchases. Injuring the profitability of the game is something that should, naturally, be avoided.

 

3. If the engine permits, expand the number of comps a player can have out for crafting above 8, with each of those additional slots costing millions of credits--and increase each successive slot by 25% of the current one. Make these unlocks per char.

 

4. New perks that are available for purchase with credits. While I doubt it will remove a lot of credits, how about adding on guild and legacy banks aboard our ships? I'm just suggesting this because the assets already exist in the game. However, with strongholds having those banks and those being so easily to go to--the convenience factor off adding them to player ships would probably only be a minor benefit.

 

Yet, what would someone with a lot of credits see as a useful perk that they would be willing to spend a lot of credits to obtain? As a multibillionaire, I would be attracted to being able to send out additional comps (this would also add in possibly wanting to use the Commander's Compendium to up their affection to 50) since that would increase my ability to gather mats and my crafting efficiency. Would it even be possible to have this perk expire--after say 90 days?

 

I also have a bit of stream of consciousness going while I am writing this. Having new perks that expire could also be useful in controlling the credit supply. Yet, prices for expiring perks should be kept reasonable and adjusted downwards as the aggregate credit supply declines.

[mike_carton]

A vast majority of the items on the GTN are already credit sinks; expensive items that many people like to have but most cannot afford; the tax credits are taken out of the game. The whole inflation astroturf campaign amounts to QQ'ing that they are credit sinks.

 

You add more credit sinks, you'll get more QQ'ing.

 

The posts about inflation are NOT about inflation. They're about jealousy and covetousness (= marked by inordinate desire for another's possessions).

 

Some players want stuff from GTN that is NOT necessary to play the game, just cosmetic stuff. But these players don't want to spend the real-life money other players spent. They don't want to spend the real-life time playing the game - over several years - that the other players spent.

 

They want shiny stuff right way and they want them just handed to them without spending money or effort.

 

You add more credit sinks, they'll complain more.

Edited November 9, 2021 by mike_carton

[MystyqeofXev]

A vast majority of the items on the GTN are already credit sinks; expensive items that many people like to have but most cannot afford. The whole inflation astroturf campaign amounts to QQ'ing that they are credit sinks.

 

You add more credit sinks, you'll get more QQ'ing.

 

The posts about inflation are NOT about inflation. They're about jealousy and covetousness (= marked by inordinate desire for another's possessions).

 

Some players want stuff from GTN that is NOT necessary to play the game, just cosmetic stuff. But these players don't want to spend the real-life money other players spent. They don't want to spend the real-life time playing the game - over several years - that the other players spent.

 

They want shiny stuff right way and they want them just handed to them without spending money or effort.

 

You add more credit sinks, they'll complain more.

 

While I disagree with you on other things, you are spot-on with this post.

 

Let's be honest, money is easy to MAKE in this game. Laughably so.

 

1) Step 1 - Join a guild

2) Step 2 - Do 50k Conquest

3) Step 3 - Wait until next Tuesday when you should have (from selling stuff), around 1.1 million credits.

 

I'd like to reiterate a point you made - there is NOTHING on the GTN that people ** NEED ** to play the game. There are items people ** WANT **, but instead of doing FPs, H's, or crafting, they sit on fleet and whine, or worse - BEG.

[Jeweledleah]

A vast majority of the items on the GTN are already credit sinks; expensive items that many people like to have but most cannot afford.

 

that... is NOT a definition of a credit sink.

 

credit sink removes credits from the economy, it literally deletes them from the game. anything you buy from an npc vendor - is a credit sink. GTN just shifts them around and before anyone says anything about GTN fees, you only pay them if you sell, and they are marginal when it comes to the kind of credits that are floating around the game.

 

moreover...

 

BULK of those credits come from several exploits that took too long to patch and were not removed from the game. getting conquest credits is a drop in a bucket compared to that and those conquest credits won't buy you much anyways, with current prices.

 

and before you say anything about me being lazy or any other such nonsense. I've been doing conquests every week since I resubscribed. because my guild is dead basically, I've been single handedly completing invasions on my own. in the last 3 weeks I made about 200 mil. do you want to guess how much of that came from conquests and how much of it came from scrounging through my various cargo holds and selling what i found there on GTN? now, do you want to guess what I can actualy afford off GTN with those 200 mil? and I'm not talking about cartel armors or weapons here, I'm talking about things to , say... upgrade my guild ship that I cannot farm solo and would have to trade for (mats basically). and I wouldn't be able to afford much at all if my credits ONLY came from doing heroic dailies and conquests, even though at a glance, it looks like you get sooooo much just from doing that. buying power is not there.

 

how about the fact that inflation got so bad that people don't even list hypercrates anymore, because they can sell them for above max listing price GTN allows for. right now, the best way to make credits is NOT to play the game. its to open up your wallet, buy cartel shop items and sell them on GTN to people sitting on all those exploited credits that have been laundered beyond recognition and will continue to float around the economy because we have barely any ACTUAL credit sinks, that remove those credits out of the game entirely.

 

people who cannot afford a shiny will always exist. people upset about not being able to afford a shiny will always exist. the problem we have here is the disparity between credits one can earn through gameplay vs credits already IN game, vs rate at which those credits are being removed from the game which in turn creates insane gap between those who already have, or are opening their wallets and those who are just trying to play the game and earn their credits that way. THAT is a problem and its not going to get fixed by making players earn even fewer credits via normal play. its probably going to be nice for bioware since more players will be... encouraged to open their wallets just to be able to afford a few things in game here and there.

 

you know, I thought inflation in WoW was bad but its barely noticeable compared to the craziness happening in SWTOR.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Jeweledleah

[MystyqeofXev]

I've made 1.1 Billion in a month selling crafted stuff. Money is not hard to make. I also do CQ, run FPs and OPs. I fully understand "the path of least resistance", and I sure as heck would like to buy some OLD / RETIRED / NLIG items / patterns, but instead, I just watch the GTN.

 

This is EA's doing. Don't punish the players for problemS you allowed to grow and fester.

[SithKoriandr]

Sell those old modded gear as individual items for credits that are no longer sold on the Cartel Market.

 

Like Destroyer Armor. Sell it as individual pieces for 1million credits each. Bound to character.

 

Then there's all the other modded gear they don't sell anymore that you can't unlock via collections because they came with mods.

[mike_carton]

that... is NOT a definition of a credit sink.

 

You're right in that I was not clear. The high amount of tax credits on the GTN transactions are the credit sink; I edited my post to add that aside. The credits passing hands during a GTN transaction are not a credit sink but a cause for jealousy.

BULK of those credits come from several exploits that took too long to patch and were not removed from the game.

 

Some evidence is needed for this claim. The exploits were a long time ago when even 100 million was lot of money. There haven't been any recently.

Edited November 9, 2021 by mike_carton

[DWho]

You're right in that I was not clear. The high amount of tax credits on the GTN transactions are the credit sink; I edited my post to add that aside. The credits passing hands during a GTN transaction are not a credit sink but a cause for jealousy.

 

 

Some evidence is needed for this claim. The exploits were a long time ago when even 100 million was lot of money. There haven't been any recently.

 

For it to be a credit sink it needs to be unavoidable. The taxes on the GTN are not a good credit sink since they are easily avoidable. You "need" a vaccine for the Rak plague, you have to buy it from a vendor, the credits go out of the economy not to another player which doesn't remove them from the economy.

 

I am still a big proponent of blocking all trade occuring off the GTN (or at least putting a limit on it with a bind to legacy like timer. If you don't trade it in an hour, the only place you can trade it is on the GTN), raising the GTN limit, and institution a 5% non-refundable listing fee instead of a sales tax.

 

The issue with the old exploits is that the people that did this have had the opportunity to multiply those ill gotten gains on the GTN over the years and now have many more credits than they obtained from the exploit. It's way too late to do anything about this now as it would be virtually impossible to figure out what was gained through an exploit and what was gained legitimately.

[Chewiejdh]

How about letting us buy armor stands that we can perma-attach armor sets to for display purposes.

 

Not only do we then have to buy the stands, but we have to buy/build/acquire the armor that is perma linked to the stand.

 

If we want a set to wear, we'd have to go get a second set...thereby causing us to spend more $$.

[Phaedruss]

-Make all CM items unlockable with credits.

-Stop giving all the cool items to the CM and start putting some in game with high credit costs. (I get that this is their money maker, but they've gotten to a point where there is a major lack of good looking items not linked to the CM. )

-Increase the prices of all end game vendors to reflect the inflation.

 

Truthfully though, the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to inflation. Best they can do is slowly deflate it over years and years. There is no easy fix and credit sinks will not be an instant fix.

Luckily the actual economy of the game is the healthiest I've ever seen it. Never before was it this easy to farm for the stuff you want from the CM, without spending money. The prices are just intimidating at first.

[JakRoanin]

Character perk: Unlimited gathering in SH's...

[Jeweledleah]

You're right in that I was not clear. The high amount of tax credits on the GTN transactions are the credit sink; I edited my post to add that aside. The credits passing hands during a GTN transaction are not a credit sink but a cause for jealousy.

 

 

Some evidence is needed for this claim. The exploits were a long time ago when even 100 million was lot of money. There haven't been any recently.

 

as pointed out bellow, its too easily avoidable, but also, its still marginal. it doesn't remove nearly enough.

 

exploits may have happened years ago, but because this game has little to no credit sinks, some of which have ALSO been removed (like... I pretty much don't use my ship to travel anywhere anymore, why, when my fleet pass is free, has no cooldown and I can just grab one of the heroic dailies on whichever planet I'm going to and use its fast travel option, or ignore completing the weekly and just pick it up/abandon at will over and over.) - all those exploited and subsequently laundered credits are STILL floating around.

 

part of the reason we even got increased credit rewards from various in game sources to begin with, was so that people who were NOT part of the exploiting/laundering could at least somewhat catch up and afford stuff.

 

I remember when credit cap was 250 for f2p, 350k for prefered and within that cap I could afford to buy weekly ops passes so even if I'd let my subscription lapse, I could still do ops with my then still alive guild. many of the unlocks were also affordable. even though credit cap was now tripled for preferred, the buying power is nowhere near the same level.

 

its too late to do anything like removing them about laundered credits. years too late. but it IS still possible to add things that will drain those credits faster then people can generate them through gameplay, this reducing inflation.

 

as I said, my favorite option for that is Kai Zaiken selling very rare cartel items on a rotating schedule for very high credit prices. like... one of those pets they used to give as bonus with purchase of cartel coins. bound to legacy maybe even per character only. gear sets. mounts. furnishings. makeb gazebos that are sold for credits instead of rigidly capped seasonal currency, but only for a limited time.

 

will some people be upset about not being able to afford those? yes. its still a net positive for game economy as a whole.

[merovejec]

Pay for getting achievements finished.