Itemization in 7.0

[Katushe]

why does it matter that 326 conquest gear is worse than 306 gear? if all u are doing is solo content, its irelevant what gear u have u will still pretty much 1 shot everything

 

What is obvious is that you do not understand the concept of completion satisfaction. Just because you don't care about what gear I have, does not mean that I shouldn't, either. I care if I can get the max. Not because I need it, but because I want it. Because I need that fix for my OCD, reaching the maximum. And that is one of the things that make me pay for the game.

 

I pay, I care. I don't NEED to play the game. I want to play the game because I love it. Making the game frustrating for me because I "don't need" all it has to offer it's something that I don't find the justification for. And imposes on me a limit I did not choose. And then I remember who pays my sub. Guess who! Me, the one only partially able to decide, from now on! Bummer!

[ebinhovdloca]

What is obvious is that you do not understand the concept of completion satisfaction. Just because you don't care about what gear I have, does not mean that I shouldn't, either. I care if I can get the max. Not because I need it, but because I want it. Because I need that fix for my OCD, reaching the maximum. And that is one of the things that make me pay for the game.

 

I pay, I care. I don't NEED to play the game. I want to play the game because I love it. Making the game frustrating for me because I "don't need" all it has to offer it's something that I don't find the justification for. And imposes on me a limit I did not choose. And then I remember who pays my sub. Guess who! Me, the one only partially able to decide, from now on! Bummer!

 

 

its an MMORPG, not a single player game, there are more ppl paying for sub, not just you , game cant make all players happy, MMO literally means massive multiplayer online, if you were playing for a single player game sure, u can demand for anything u want, but there are more players paying for sub, if your OCD is that bad just wait until 336 gear is introduced for solo players

 

you will also never have completion satisfaction if you dont play group content in an MMORPG

Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca

[ebinhovdloca]

It matters because supposedly gear progression is important and should include all playstyles, right? But if gear for one playstyle is worse than the previous expansion's gear, that playstyle isn't included, despite the previous expansion including all playstyles.

 

I could explain to you why solo players either need better gear (a hint for you: not all solo content is that easy) or having access to it would be a good thing for group content too, but you seem to be in the camp of "solo players don't deserve anything" so I'm not gonna bother. Read some other posts from other solo players that have explained this if you actually care, but I'm not gonna sit here and have this conversation when you're starting from that kind of dismissive attitude.

can you name any kind of solo content that isnt easy?

and no i am not saying they dont deserve anything but you are playing an MMORPG, not a single player game, just wait until 336 is added to conquest gear simple

[ebinhovdloca]

MM FPs are no Solo Content and the 7.0 gear from MM FPs are not much better then the current 306 Gear. So why should i do the gear Grind with FPs when its not worth it?

 

content is balanced for 318 gear u dont need to grind for the 326 fp gear, u can just do fps for achievments or if you enjoy them

[FlameYOL]

I was disappointed at not being able to earn max Irating but considering most stuff will be balanced for 318 I'm ok with this.

[ebinhovdloca]

I was disappointed at not being able to earn max Irating but considering most stuff will be balanced for 318 I'm ok with this.

you will be able too even as solo player, just not at launch

[Katushe]

its an MMORPG, not a single player game, there are more ppl paying for sub, not just you , game cant make all players happy, MMO literally means massive multiplayer online, if you were playing for a single player game sure, u can demand for anything u want, but there are more players paying for sub, if your OCD is that bad just wait until 336 gear is introduced for solo players

 

you will also never have completion satisfaction if you dont play group content in an MMORPG

 

I understand that not everybody can be happy, I don't understand why you would choose to frustrate, on purpose, a paying customer. And I REALLY do not understand why the MM OPS players are unhappy with another existing path to the best gear, whatever that path is. Don't give me that "high risk, high reward" story, it's not true. The lock is behind grouping up, not behind difficulty.

 

I do play group content. Just not OPS. I did, I don't anymore. Because of the people that play OPS.

[bahudson]

Yes, it is truth. But it's still contempt.

 

 

 

 

Correct. It's something that I want and I do not have a path to get it. Putting up with ops player is NOT an option. So, it will be forever frustrating. Just like it was in 4.0.

 

This is not being directed at you in a contemptuous manner. It is stating a fact. You do not NEED the best gear to do solo content, you merely WANT it. As for “putting up with ops player is not an option,” I have some bad news. If you want the iRating 330 gear, it’s the only option for now. If you want to do everything solo, there’s no point in getting the best gear. It would trivialize the game, and make you lose interest a lot quicker, since nothing would be able to touch you. If you want better gear, work with ops players. Not every ops player behaves like an elitist NiM raider stereotype. Find people out there in game willing to help you out. And I’m saying this from the viewpoint of someone who mostly does PvP. I’m totally fine with the new system, hell, I think it’s the most concise form since pre-5.0 days. There’s not a bajillion tiers of gear to go through like there used to be.

 

And for people who are quitting because of the itemization, the entitlement is real. Wow. I know I’m in the minority here but let me put it clear as day for those of you who still haven’t figured it out yet. Working for the best gear by doing challenging content is a standard practice in MMOs, and you are not deserving of the best gear in the game simply by playing solo content. It is a reward that you must work for if you want it. This is still a “play as you wish” game with these changes, you just get rewarded according to the content you play. You do not need the best gear to do the easiest stuff. It is not contempt, it is factual.

Edited November 10, 2021 by bahudson

[ebinhovdloca]

I understand that not everybody can be happy, I don't understand why you would choose to frustrate, on purpose, a paying customer. And I REALLY do not understand why the MM OPS players are unhappy with another existing path to the best gear, whatever that path is. Don't give me that "high risk, high reward" story, it's not true. The lock is behind grouping up, not behind difficulty.

 

I do play group content. Just not OPS. I did, I don't anymore. Because of the people that play OPS.

 

you will still not have completion safisfaction and its simple, the harder the content u play the higher item rating u should get, its what happens in most MMORPGs an MMORPG should not cander to solo players because it is an MMORPG not a single player game, you will still have access to the BiS gear just not at launch

[ebinhovdloca]

This is not being directed at you in a contemptuous manner. It is stating a fact. You do not NEED the best gear to do solo content, you merely WANT it. As for “putting up with ops player is not an option,” I have some bad news. If you want the iRating 330 gear, it’s the only option for now. If you want to do everything solo, there’s no point in getting the best gear. It would trivialize the game, and make you lose interest a lot quicker, since nothing would be able to touch you. If you want better gear, work with ops players. Not every ops player behaves like an elitist NiM raider stereotype. Find people out there in game willing to help you out. And I’m saying this from the viewpoint of someone who mostly does PvP. I’m totally fine with the new system, hell, I think it’s the most concise form since pre-5.0 days. There’s not a bajillion tiers of gear to go through like there used to be.

 

And for people who are quitting because of the itemization, the entitlement is real. Wow. I know I’m in the minority here but let me put it clear as day for those of you who still haven’t figured it out yet. Working for the best gear by doing challenging content is a standard practice in MMOs, and you are not deserving of the best gear in the game simply by playing solo content. It is a reward that you must work for if you want it. This is still a “play as you wish” game with these changes, you just get rewarded according to the content you play. You do not need the best gear to do the easiest stuff. It is not contempt, it is factual.

dont think they play any other MMO's since they get so surprised at higher difficulty=higher gear rating

[Schlumpfine]

content is balanced for 318 gear u dont need to grind for the 326 fp gear, u can just do fps for achievments or if you enjoy them

You can say the same thing for NIM OPS. You do not need the best gear to do NIM OPS. The BIS Gear is just a reward if you do NIM OPS. And if you do the NIM OP again it will be easier with the new BIS Gear.

I just want the same thing for every kind of content

[LordCamTheGreat]

Unmoddable gear means that the base gear stats MUST be perfectly distributed.

This means 110% accuracy for all DPS sets. Perfect GCD cooldowns for everyone. Perfect tank stats for everyone. Variations of GCD(alacrity) levels for healers and DOT specs.

If unmoddable gear is not perfectly distributed, the system will have immediately failed the overwhelming majority of the playerbase.

 

The shift from play as you want to you can't play as you want is terrible. Sure you might not need 330 rating to do story missions, but players like the progression. Players like being able to overlevel their gear. Players like being able to achieve the max gear such that they can play any type of content, not just the content they got gear from.

 

I hate this system already. The more I hear about it, the worse and worse it sounds - even more so if you have to share gear token drops from bosses.

[ebinhovdloca]

You can say the same thing for NIM OPS. You do not need the best gear to do NIM OPS. The BIS Gear is just a reward if you do NIM OPS. And if you do the NIM OP again it will be easier with the new BIS Gear.

I just want the same thing for every kind of content

 

"I just want the same thing for every kind of content"

 

should never happen in an MMORPG, swtor was probably the 1st one to do it, and yes its true that u wont need BiS gear for any content in the game if NiM is also balanced for 318(which it prob isnt) what the dev prob meant is that the SM group content is balanced for 318, but yes it is dissapointing that NiM content wont be balanced for BiS gear

[ebinhovdloca]

Unmoddable gear means that the base gear stats MUST be perfectly distributed.

This means 110% accuracy for all DPS sets. Perfect GCD cooldowns for everyone. Perfect tank stats for everyone. Variations of GCD(alacrity) levels for healers and DOT specs.

If unmoddable gear is not perfectly distributed, the system will have immediately failed the overwhelming majority of the playerbase.

 

The shift from play as you want to you can't play as you want is terrible. Sure you might not need 330 rating to do story missions, but players like the progression. Players like being able to overlevel their gear. Players like being able to achieve the max gear such that they can play any type of content, not just the content they got gear from.

 

I hate this system already. The more I hear about it, the worse and worse it sounds - even more so if you have to share gear token drops from bosses.

 

mod vendor will exist, "players like being able to overlevel their gear" why would u like to do that? just makes the game boring and unchallenging

Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca

[merovejec]

Will the achievements currently categorized under "Spoils of War", the Equipment Sets and Tactical Items also be moved to the Feats of Strength category or will they still be achievable in 7.0?

• The Spoils of War equipment sets will no longer drop from content nor be able to be directly purchased from a vendor. As a result, the achievements will be moved to the Feats of Strength category. The sets will still be obtainable via Kai Zykken’s Random Unique Items box.
  

 

So i have been playing the game just doing TC for fragments to buy from Kai, for the past half year in vain? GG Bioware, really wanna unsub now.

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

can you name any kind of solo content that isnt easy?

 

Veteran/Master Mode KOTFE and KOTET chapters are an example. The Eternal Championship is another (and a massive missed opportunity, but I'm not gonna get into that again here). Feel free to check out the rewards for this content on the PTS right now, you won't be surprised to learn it's basically nothing. They're not even included in the solo gearing track.

 

and no i am not saying they dont deserve anything but you are playing an MMORPG, not a single player game, just wait until 336 is added to conquest gear simple

 

The problem is why would I wait? What reason do I have to keep playing after the story is finished now? 6.0's system kept me going so I could get all of my alts geared up and go through that gear grind (which included, if this surprises you, multiplayer content, because I'm not that averse to it, it's just not my preferred content), but I'm not going to do that with 7.0's system if my alts' 306 gear is better than what I could get them at 7.0's launch. Why would I? That makes no sense. So after I finish the story for 7.0, I won't have anything to do.

 

Again, that's the gear progression, right? Even if I don't need it (which I disagree with, because not every solo player is exclusively a solo player, I certainly wasn't, and having the extra gear made me feel more comfortable branching out), the path to get it keeps me playing the game. As this system stands, I just won't have a reason to once I've gotten through the story.

[ebinhovdloca]

So i have been playing the game just doing TC for fragments to buy from Kai, for the past half year in vain? GG Bioware, really wanna unsub now.

 

you chose to farm tech fragments and farm all gear sets, galactic command was removed it was expected everything from 6.0 to be removed as well especialy with how useless most sets were

[Katushe]

This is not being directed at you in a contemptuous manner.

Oh, but it is.

 

It is stating a fact. You do not NEED the best gear to do solo content, you merely WANT it. As for “putting up with ops player is not an option,” I have some bad news. If you want the iRating 330 gear, it’s the only option for now.

All of that is correct.

 

If you want to do everything solo, there’s no point in getting the best gear.

What I want or I don't want is for the one who pays for my sub to decide. Or so I do consider.

 

It would trivialize the game, and make you lose interest a lot quicker, since nothing would be able to touch you.

That is an assumption, and it is a FALSE one.

 

If you want better gear, work with ops players.

I am not able to. Details would not comply with forum rules.

 

Not every ops player behaves like an elitist NiM raider stereotype.

Correct. I know only one other player that I enjoy spending time with in this game. Running an OPS with a group of 2 is a bit hard.

 

Find people out there in game willing to help you out.

Nope. I don't have the time and even more important, I would not enjoy that.

 

And I’m saying this from the viewpoint of someone who mostly does PvP. I’m totally fine with the new system, hell, I think it’s the most concise form since pre-5.0 days. There’s not a bajillion tiers of gear to go through like there used to be.

I am happy for you.

[ebinhovdloca]

Veteran/Master Mode KOTFE and KOTET chapters are an example. The Eternal Championship is another (and a massive missed opportunity, but I'm not gonna get into that again here). Feel free to check out the rewards for this content on the PTS right now, you won't be surprised to learn it's basically nothing. They're not even included in the solo gearing track.

 

 

 

The problem is why would I wait? What reason do I have to keep playing after the story is finished now? 6.0's system kept me going so I could get all of my alts geared up and go through that gear grind (which included, if this surprises you, multiplayer content, because I'm not that averse to it, it's just not my preferred content), but I'm not going to do that with 7.0's system if my alts' 306 gear is better than what I could get them at 7.0's launch. Why would I? That makes no sense. So after I finish the story for 7.0, I won't have anything to do.

 

Again, that's the gear progression, right? Even if I don't need it (which I disagree with, because not every solo player is exclusively a solo player, I certainly wasn't, and having the extra gear made me feel more comfortable branching out), the path to get it keeps me playing the game. As this system stands, I just won't have a reason to once I've gotten through the story.

 

chapters can be done in 300 gear(they were challenging when they came out now they arent with tacticals and veteran edge stacks) , eternal championship is easy (even most achievments) maybe sprint champion is a little challenging,

again you are playing an MMORPG, its a standard practive to have harder content give you higher tiered rating, the mere option to have BiS gear as a solo player at any point is an outlier in MMORPGs

[twistedbortik]

"I just want the same thing for every kind of content"

 

should never happen in an MMORPG, swtor was probably the 1st one to do it, and yes its true that u wont need BiS gear for any content in the game if NiM is also balanced for 318(which it prob isnt) what the dev prob meant is that the SM group content is balanced for 318, but yes it is dissapointing that NiM content wont be balanced for BiS gear

 

Should never happen because you said so? Are you a leading expert on how every game at this genre suppose to work, otherwise it's, what, heretical and should be purged?

Horizontal progression exists, I.E., in TESO and while there are some who don't like it, overwhelming majority sees no problems with that. Overwhelming majority of players in this game are casuals and had no problems whatsoever with the horizontal progression - then why this should change to suddenly cater to the whims of the absolute minority of players?

Every tryhard raider that's defending this changes always comes off as a dismissive elitist, who considers every player, who isn't intersted in doing grouped content, a filthy plebe casual - ignoring the fact that this particular MMO consisnts primarily of such people - and by primarily I mean 90% of the population didn't even completed 1 8 story OP.

Edited November 10, 2021 by twistedbortik

[ebinhovdloca]

Should never happen because you said so? Are you a leading expert on how every game at this genre suppose to work, otherwise it's, what, heretical and should be purged?

Horizontal progression exists, I.E., in TESO and while there are some who don't like it, overwhelming majority sees no problems with that. Overwhelming majority of players in this game are casuals and had no problems whatsoever with the horizontal progression - then why this should change to suddenly cater to the whims of the absolute minority of players?

Every tryhard raider that's defending this changes always comes off as a dismissive elitist, who considers every player, who isn't intersted in doing grouped content, a filthy plebe casual - ignoring the fact that this particular MMO consisnts primarily of such people - and by primarily I mean 90% of the population didn't even completed 1 8 story OP.

 

should not happen because its an outlier on MMORPG's MMO= massive multiplayer online

ESO BiS gear is mixed, u need crafted pieces, pieces from dungeons , pieces from raids even some pvp pieces, why are u even bringing it up if u need to do a specific dungeon to get some gear pieces?

[jkdshbr]

This is what BioWare thinks will settle concerns? Everything here makes the ideas seem worse as a solo player. Timegating mods for months is, in fact, preventing me from modifying my gear. If you then unlock mods for raiders earlier than everyone else, you are, in fact, preventing anyone but raiders from modifying their gear.

 

 

Can I acquire mats to max gear and mods without having to do grouped content?

• Over time, as more patches are released in the expansion, you will be able to upgrade your gear more and more, including unlocking the moddable gear vendor.
  

 

 

Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game?

• No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306
  

 

 

[*]Play Conquests/Daily Missions regularly - currency from this is used for gear upgrades across all other content, and the gear pool from this alone will upgrade you beyond what's needed for any solo activity. Max gear from this source is 326 at launch, and will increase in future patches - see #4 below.

• All other solo (and most multiplayer) activities for 7.0 and beyond are balanced for 318 gear.
  
• For comparison, completing the 7.0 storyline rewards gear up to level 320.
  

 

[*]Play Flashpoints, Warzones, and/or Ops as you like - gear drops from those activities will upgrade you regardless of where your currently-equipped gear came from.

[*]For Players with a favorite activity type, currencies and sidegrades from that activity will allow you to upgrade to the max needed for that activity, simply by playing that activity (plus Conquests/Daily missions).

[*]We will introduce higher tiers of gear in future 7.x updates. Even as the max gear rewards go up, the balance target for all solo and most multiplayer activities will remain at 318 for all 7.x content.

 

 

You do understand that these portions are directly at odds with your stated "philosophy", yes? I will not be able to modify my gear until an unspecified date to which you won't even commit, and taking away the advantage of gear in any capacity in solo content defeats the entire purpose of pursuing gear in any form as a solo player. If all gear levels over 318 are irrelevant, and mods are going to be locked behind months of waiting, your stated philosophy fails outright.

 

Philosophy

 

Our philosophy for gearing and progression in 7.0 is to ensure that players have the gear they need to play the content they want and that they can grow their power over time. Whether a player is here for the story or to take on the most powerful challenges in the galaxy, we want there to be something a player can look forward to that makes their characters stronger.

 

 

As a solo player, not only will I not be able to change the stats on my gear, but any item level advantage I may have had to compensate for how terribly optimized the gear is on the PTS will be scaled down. So I will ask now for the third time:

What do I, as a solo player, have to "look forward to that makes [my] characters stronger" after hitting item level 326?

Edited November 10, 2021 by jkdshbr

[divinecynic]

its an MMORPG, not a single player game, there are more ppl paying for sub, not just you , game cant make all players happy, MMO literally means massive multiplayer online, if you were playing for a single player game sure, u can demand for anything u want, but there are more players paying for sub, if your OCD is that bad just wait until 336 gear is introduced for solo players

 

You know there is no law about MMO working a certain way right? Innovation is a thing. What's the benefit to the entire player base for going back to this? Yes Swtor is outliner. Why is this bad? You also seem to think raiders are the majority population in the game. It's not. Catering to raiders is catering to the minority. Swtor never really has had that big of a raid community, even back in the old days. There are more players paying for subs then people who really get into the harder content.

 

Let's look at the practical side of things. What does better gear for harder content actually do? It rewards doing higher difficulty. Simple idea. The goal of it is to increase the satisfaction of the players who do it and encourage other players to do it. Also it stretches out the longevity of an expansion by making players take longer to clear, as in progression raiding. It is indeed how most MMOs have always worked.

 

The issue is Swtor isn't most MMOs. It never has been. We have never had the best raids. Swtor strength has been story. As time went on diversity of content is another. Swtor has a lot to do. Operations at story mode do have many people who play especially now as they are easy. Progression never has really helped the health of the game. Increase reward for increased difficulty may seem fair and make raiders feel good. The issue is that obviously many players find the game satisfying without doing high difficulty Operations and they have nothing they need for the rest of the game.

 

You know what did help the health of the game? Being launched on Steam and new players discovering they could do what they wanted. They could play the game how they wanted. Making max gear independent is about player freedom. When you are arguing for is less player freedom.

 

We also got a big boost during the KotFE day because the story content was serialized. Story is the big draw and always was.

 

The raids are not what draw the majority of players to the game. So if you want to players a really hard game there many great single player games out there for you. If you want a serious hard core raiding option there are better game for you. Gating gear is going to hurt the game because reducing player options is never a good idea. Oh this would have worked if play the your way philosophy had never been introduced. It has though.

 

In the end though, most of this is academic. Bioware is going ahead with the system. It won't increase the amount of folks playing higher tier Ops because it never does. The top tier gear will be ignored because no one needs it, not even the raiders. Cosmetics will still be the measure of status in the game as they have since the Cartel Market dropped. People into Ops will do them. Most folks will the several other forms of group content instead of bothering with. The new raid will get some traction in story mode like always. The new gear system will last a bit and get all kinds of changes to it like always.

 

We'll see if play your way makes a comeback or not.

 

I have been this game a long time. Seen time and time again.

Edited November 10, 2021 by divinecynic

[casirabit]

can you name any kind of solo content that isnt easy?

and no i am not saying they dont deserve anything but you are playing an MMORPG, not a single player game, just wait until 336 is added to conquest gear simple

 

Yea the Veteran and Master Mode chapters in the Koet expansions so those are not easy and it requires a better quality of gear so there is solo content that is not easy but you will probably ignore this post.

[ebinhovdloca]

This is what BioWare thinks will settle concerns? Everything here makes the ideas seem worse as a solo player. Timegating mods for months is, in fact, preventing me from modifying my gear. If you then unlock mods for raiders earlier than everyone else, you are, in fact, preventing anyone but raiders from modifying their gear.

 

 

 

 

You do understand that these portions are directly at odds with your stated "philosophy", yes? I will not be able to modify my gear until an unspecified date to which you won't even commit, and taking away the advantage of gear in any capacity in solo content defeats the entire purpose of pursuing gear in any form as a solo player. If all gear levels over 318 are irrelevant, and mods are going to be locked behind months of waiting, your stated philosophy fails outright.

 

 

 

As a solo player, not only will I not be able to change the stats on my gear, but any item level advantage I may have had to compensate for how terribly optimized the gear is on the PTS will be scaled down. So I will ask now for the third time:

What do I, as a solo player, have to "look forward to that makes [my] characters stronger" after hitting item level 326?

 

why do u need to make your character stronger than 326? sure u want to, but why?