Itemization in 7.0

[ebinhovdloca]

Yikes, gearing is looking kind of messy and confusing for 7.0. I'm not on the PTS, so I still don't understand how level sync will work. All I have to say is: in 7.0, if I am weaker in my "solo gear" when doing stuff like Yavin dailies or SM chapters than someone who has "raid gear" is, I will be quite unhappy. As a solo player I would be fine with not having the best gear for endgame group activities, but in old content where my power level is being downgraded via level sync (you know, a huge chunk of what "solo players" do?), I want to have the max power level possible.

 

 

So let me get this straight: in 7.x, DvL tokens will only be available via DvL bosses, which effectively makes all of the token rewards, that were previously available for solo players, require a group to earn? Meaning that Arcann customizations -- all two of them -- will be exclusive to group content (not to mention all the other goodies)?

 

I strongly dislike this change.

 

i felt no difference in level synced planets from having 270 gear or 306 gear, since even in 270 gear most mobs got 1 shotted, there hasnt been any talks about changing level sync so you will still just 1 shot everything but gold mobs

[Ulrah]

Thank you for the clarifications, JackieKo.

 

That said, unless the goal with this itemization system was to piss everyone off - it is a failure. It's overly complicated, biased, and restrictive. If it requires a short essay to explain to non-raiders why the higher rating gear that can be modified from raids isn't better than theirs (which I still in no way buy, btw), then it's a failure.

 

I maintain that any raider defending this system should be embarrassed. You are admitting you need unfair advantages. Post 7.0, every raider I see will be getting a /spit.

 

I am still excited to lvl a fresh character with the new combat styles (I have been for months), but I don't expect I will stick around after that.

[Exly]

you arent entitled to anything in the game just by paying for the sub, you have to play the game, paying for sub doesnt mean u should be given every single cosmetic, unique mount, or gear in a silver platter, u need to play the game, and every1 will eventually have access to the same gear(which will basically just be cosmetic)

 

So I'm not entitled to any of the content in the game just because I pay my sub? If that where true, why would I or anybody ever pay for a sub? Certainly I am entitled to something.

 

What about cartel market gear? Am I entitled to receive it if I pay for it? Am I entitled to use it as intended, and modify it so that I can use it to play the game?

[HKtheindomitable]

That's the thing though, it happens consistently and it will continue to happen all the time. Look at it from a casual player, Casual Carl. They are in a social guild, they get on, shoot the ****, and maybe do some FP's. Whatever, but then Casual Carl goes, you know what I want to do an Op. So he sees a group forming, says "hey I want to try!" Then, as usual, Casual Carl gets hit by "Have you done it before" Which Casual Carl hasn't. So That group says fine, whatever, what's your gear. They then get examined, see that Casual Carl doesn't have 330 gear, so they boot him from the ops group. The Next group won't take him because he hasn't cleared the op some arbitrary amount of time so they don't even bother. Now to do as you say, Casual Carl has to leave his social guild, and now try this again with Raiding guilds. All he wants to do is run it because he has a long weekend and wants to try something new. Now let's say that like currently Casual Carl finally got all that Max gear, he would at least have been picked up by a group willing to teach him. Don't act like it doesn't happen, I've been playing MMO's for two decades, this is standard practice for Raiders. Maybe not all, but usually a Majority. If it's not a Majority it's a super loud minority that feels like the majority.

 

In the end, it only helps Raiders by letting the Casual Carl/Carla's get max gear, it allows them to start doing raids and not feel like they are handicapping the team. They can make up their OP knowledge with stat points. If it brings more people into OPs, which in turn makes the beancounters at EA see that it might be worth throwing more money for OPs. Raids are expensive and time-consuming to make for any MMO Studio, so for a company that is so driven by numbers like EA, you want to do whatever you can to pump those numbers up to show that it's worth spending the money to make them. yeah, you won't get every Casual Carl/Carla but you get more than you would be locking the gear.

 

Again, if anyone is toxic like that, they're not worth the person's time. You have to look for the right guild for you, not the content. I've been playing since this game launched, and saw it all. Social guilds and raiding guilds aren't for casual players like myself. You have to find them, which I gave advice on how to do so. No self-respecting/respectable guild will turn someone away because their gear isn't up to snuff or because they haven't done something within x time, especially on lower OPs/SM OPs. That's the point of teaching runs and casual runs. Which sometimes means sifting through the toxic folks. This you should know.

[ebinhovdloca]

Thank you for the clarifications, JackieKo.

 

That said, unless the goal with this itemization system was to piss everyone off - it is a failure. It's overly complicated, biased, and restrictive. If it requires a short essay to explain to non-raiders why the higher rating gear that can be modified from raids isn't better than theirs (which I still in no way buy, btw), then it's a failure.

 

I maintain that any raider defending this system should be embarrassed. You are admitting you need unfair advantages. Post 7.0, every raider I see will be getting a /spit.

 

I am still excited to lvl a fresh character with the new combat styles (I have been for months), but I don't expect I will stick around after that.

 

that argument can be flipped to say that every1 not wanting this change should be embarassed by not being able to clear the highest difficulty content in the game. Raiders having better gear wont give them any advantage anywhere, pvp will be capped, and level sync will still exist, the only content where better gear will help is in pve grouped content, if you have some1 in your team which higher rating it just makes the content easier and said advantage goes to the entire group

[ebinhovdloca]

So I'm not entitled to any of the content in the game just because I pay my sub? If that where true, why would I or anybody ever pay for a sub? Certainly I am entitled to something.

 

What about cartel market gear? Am I entitled to receive it if I pay for it? Am I entitled to use it as intended, and modify it so that I can use it to play the game?

 

you are, but you have to play the game for the content u need to level up to max level to unlock the content etc cartel market gear is cosmetic makes 0 difference

[GrimsReaper]

no1 would boot you from SM ops if you dont have 330 gear(same way no1 kicks you from a SM ops currently if you have 270 gear, hell u can even do it at lv 70, maybe a minority will kick you), not only is 322 gear what drops from SM but SM ops are balanced to 318, obv if some1 is pugging a harder raid and they dont want to prog it they will ask for the achievment so that they have a low chance of wiping, this is where raid teams come in where u can join and progress trough the content together

 

You are straight-up missing the point, we aren't talking about SM, since it will drop lower gear than what they can get by playing solo(at least that is how it seems). So if Casual Carl/Carla wants to increase their gear that means doing MM Ops. Now since they are called Casual Carl/Carla, we can assume they won't have max gear right away, not like a hardcore Raiding guild would. So we can move forward in time say a month or more, doesn't matter that much. So Casual Carla tries to do a MM Ops because they want that sweet sweet loot, or better stat distro since Carla is a PvPer and the gear she got has trash stats. Now she is soft-locked because by now all the big MM groups are only taking people who have max gear. Which means she needs max gear to get max gear. It creates a self-defeating loop. Don't even go on saying, well then she can wait, because as soon as they unlock 330 for Solo, they will at the same time add a new higher tier to MM, meaning again, she is locked out because once Casual Carla can get the gear it's already outdated and she now needs the new set of max gear.

 

Add to that the massive dickery that saying, just get a new guild. Maybe they like their guild and they don't want to deal with a new one. The only times "get a new guild" is the appropriate answer to a problem is when it's a toxic guild or you joined a guild thinking they did whatever it is you are interested in and they don't do it. For example, saying they are a PvP guild, but in fact, only do FP's now.

[Exly]

you are, but you have to play the game for the content u need to level up to max level to unlock the content etc cartel market gear is cosmetic makes 0 difference

 

Market gear was designed to be moddable. It was not designed to be purely cosmetic. It's use for that purpose will be limited in a way that it was not made clear when it was purchased. Now we know that BioWare is choosing to limit it's use in the future, but that was never a part of the bargain, and won't be true until 7.0 launches.

[ebinhovdloca]

You are straight-up missing the point, we aren't talking about SM, since it will drop lower gear than what they can get by playing solo(at least that is how it seems). So if Casual Carl/Carla wants to increase their gear that means doing MM Ops. Now since they are called Casual Carl/Carla, we can assume they won't have max gear right away, not like a hardcore Raiding guild would. So we can move forward in time say a month or more, doesn't matter that much. So Casual Carla tries to do a MM Ops because they want that sweet sweet loot, or better stat distro since Carla is a PvPer and the gear she got has trash stats. Now she is soft-locked because by now all the big MM groups are only taking people who have max gear. Which means she needs max gear to get max gear. It creates a self-defeating loop. Don't even go on saying, well then she can wait, because as soon as they unlock 330 for Solo, they will at the same time add a new higher tier to MM, meaning again, she is locked out because once Casual Carla can get the gear it's already outdated and she now needs the new set of max gear.

 

Add to that the massive dickery that saying, just get a new guild. Maybe they like their guild and they don't want to deal with a new one. The only times "get a new guild" is the appropriate answer to a problem is when it's a toxic guild or you joined a guild thinking they did whatever it is you are interested in and they don't do it. For example, saying they are a PvP guild, but in fact, only do FP's now.

 

PVP will be capped so getting 330 gear for pvp wont work u will be able to get the tertiary stats u want

"

What is the PvP experience like with these changes?

PvP will have a stat floor and ceiling, so players with higher levels of gear will have their gear reduced to the stat ceiling (326). GSF will be awarded akin to the PvP upgrade loop."

"PvP Gear and Accuracy clarification.

Thyrsian armor, acquired by participating in PvP, will not contain any accuracy

Thyrsian offhands will come in two stat distributions, one with accuracy and one without. Players will be able to choose which version of offhand they desire, or collect both."

i also never said "get a new guild" i just said joining a raid team is the best way to get introduced to MM ops , raiding team has nothing to do with guilds, again they wont lock you outside of MM ops if you dont have 330 gear since 330 gear is only available in MM ops

[divinecynic]

I have asked this in another thread and I will ask here. How does this new system improve the game?

 

RNG wasn't even a factor anymore. Op locking gear tiers has never been a draw for players to the game or to Ops specifically. It's not likely to draw folks to group content. The people doing group content will be the people doing it now. It's only going to likely lengthen the gear chase for certain parts of the player base but shorten it for a lot of it. The whole fairness and sense of progression bit is going out the window as soon as guilds start doing carries.

 

I am honestly trying to see the upside of it.

Edited November 10, 2021 by divinecynic

[Schlumpfine]

"Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game?

No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306"

that was easy

lets say that advantage was actualy true, highest gear rating is irelevant since pvp will be capped and moddable gear will be available for every1 eventualy but no1 at launch so the advantage u mentioned realy does not exist

 

Why not at launch?

[ebinhovdloca]

Why not at launch?

 

cause no1 has access to it on launch

[JakRoanin]

you arent entitled to anything in the game just by paying for the sub, you have to play the game, u need to play the game,

 

Nobody is saying we shouldn't have to play the game to get gear. However, how we play the game what content we play in the game should not determine the quality of our gear.

 

I'm glad we got answers. I do not like the answers but the endless guessing is finally over.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Won't most of you be able to get 326 operations gear from EV HM when it's the featured weekly?

[ebinhovdloca]

Nobody is saying we shouldn't have to play the game to get gear. However, how we play the game what content we play in the game should not determine the quality of our gear.

 

I'm glad we got answers. I do not like the answers but the endless guessing is finally over.

 

why should it not? u are playing an MMORPG and again every1 will have access to the same gear eventualy

 

from the 8 MMORPG's i have played even with 7.0 SWTOR is the only game that allows solo players access to BiS gear

[GrimsReaper]

Again, if anyone is toxic like that, they're not worth the person's time. You have to look for the right guild for you, not the content. I've been playing since this game launched, and saw it all. Social guilds and raiding guilds aren't for casual players like myself. You have to find them, which I gave advice on how to do so. No self-respecting/respectable guild will turn someone away because their gear isn't up to snuff or because they haven't done something within x time, especially on lower OPs/SM OPs. That's the point of teaching runs and casual runs. Which sometimes means sifting through the toxic folks. This you should know.

 

You are missing the point completely, Casual Carl/Carla's might be in a guild they like already. So why should they have to find a brand new guild if all they want to do is gear up? If you look at the notes, by solo playing they can get better gear than(at least if numbers are to be believed) sm Ops. So why would a Casual Carl or Carla want to do story mode? They only want sweet sweet loot. So for them who now have progressed to the max of 326, if they want 330 they have to do MM. So by what you are saying, If Carl wants to get that 330 gear, they have to leave their current guild, go join a raid guild, do weeks and weeks of SM, then do weeks and weeks of VM, to then be allowed to do MM just to get the best gear? That is just asinine. Wouldn't it be better if Carl/Carla could get 330, that way they could do training runs on MM? It saves time and it works. Again look at Destiny 2, you can get raid groups that will teach you how to do it even on their MM mode equivalent because everyone has access to max level gear. The easiest solution is to let everyone have a simple path to max gear. If you solo there should be a solo pather, you raid there should be a raid path, you PvP there should be a Raid Path, you FP, there should be an FP path.

[ebinhovdloca]

You are missing the point completely, Casual Carl/Carla's might be in a guild they like already. So why should they have to find a brand new guild if all they want to do is gear up? If you look at the notes, by solo playing they can get better gear than(at least if numbers are to be believed) sm Ops. So why would a Casual Carl or Carla want to do story mode? They only want sweet sweet loot. So for them who now have progressed to the max of 326, if they want 330 they have to do MM. So by what you are saying, If Carl wants to get that 330 gear, they have to leave their current guild, go join a raid guild, do weeks and weeks of SM, then do weeks and weeks of VM, to then be allowed to do MM just to get the best gear? That is just asinine. Wouldn't it be better if Carl/Carla could get 330, that way they could do training runs on MM? It saves time and it works. Again look at Destiny 2, you can get raid groups that will teach you how to do it even on their MM mode equivalent because everyone has access to max level gear. The easiest solution is to let everyone have a simple path to max gear. If you solo there should be a solo pather, you raid there should be a raid path, you PvP there should be a Raid Path, you FP, there should be an FP path.

 

SWTOR is one of the only MMORPGs that allows max gear in any path, others you have to complete specific bosses or specific raids to get a specific BiS peace that only drops for said boss or raid

meanwhile on SWTOR

"In the 7.0 release, it is only possible to upgrade to level 330 via Master Mode Operations. Over time, all other game modes will be able to upgrade to level 330 as the ceiling is raised, so essentially, gear progression is built into all modes"

you have one of the most friendly gearing system for solo players even if 330 was the max rating and solo path only had 326

[GrimsReaper]

PVP will be capped so getting 330 gear for pvp wont work u will be able to get the tertiary stats u want

"

What is the PvP experience like with these changes?

PvP will have a stat floor and ceiling, so players with higher levels of gear will have their gear reduced to the stat ceiling (326). GSF will be awarded akin to the PvP upgrade loop."

"PvP Gear and Accuracy clarification.

Thyrsian armor, acquired by participating in PvP, will not contain any accuracy

Thyrsian offhands will come in two stat distributions, one with accuracy and one without. Players will be able to choose which version of offhand they desire, or collect both."

i also never said "get a new guild" i just said joining a raid team is the best way to get introduced to MM ops , raiding team has nothing to do with guilds, again they wont lock you outside of MM ops if you dont have 330 gear since 330 gear is only available in MM ops

 

You are missing the point, if it works as it does currently for level matching, having more stat points will still make you better doubly so if Raid gear has better stat distributions. Since current Level scaling is done on a percentage not on a hard numbers limit.

[Schlumpfine]

cause no1 has access to it on launch

Ok then why NIM Raiders will get the 334 Gear first if later all player will get it?

For me it looks like a Carrot on a stick to prevent that the casual players will leave after the Release of 7.0

[ebinhovdloca]

You are missing the point, if it works as it does currently for level matching, having more stat points will still make you better doubly so if Raid gear has better stat distributions. Since current Level scaling is done on a percentage not on a hard numbers limit.

 

pvp was never capped its only gonna be capped in 7.0 so u have no idea how it will work

 

"PvP will have a stat floor and ceiling, so players with higher levels of gear will have their gear reduced to the stat ceiling (326). GSF will be awarded akin to the PvP upgrade loop."

[HKtheindomitable]

Nobody is saying we shouldn't have to play the game to get gear. However, how we play the game what content we play in the game should not determine the quality of our gear.

 

I'm glad we got answers. I do not like the answers but the endless guessing is finally over.

 

It should matter what content we play because of the monetary value it holds. It costs them money to make every aspect of it (this includes balancing of the game). It holds a high value. The cost for us is not just our sub, but also the time spent to get it. Otherwise they would simply hand it to us at the start. Even the effort playing is part of the cost of getting it. This is true of any game. Someone used Destiny 2 as an example. It's the same there too. You don't get the super god rolls if you don't put forth the effort, and you don't get the good weapons if you don't do the content. You get what is needed otherwise.

 

Now, if that content were played and the gear was also locked behind total RNG and only dropped one piece for the whole group like it used to, then yeah that would be bad.

[ebinhovdloca]

Ok then why NIM Raiders will get the 334 Gear first if later all player will get it?

For me it looks like a Carrot on a stick to prevent that the casual players will leave after the Release of 7.0

 

334 is only available on vet R4 not on any NiM content

 

"Max new gear ratings (7.0 gear upgrade caps):

326: This can be obtained by doing anything in game (Conquests).

322: Story Mode Legacy Operations

326: Veteran Mode Legacy Operations

330: Master Mode Legacy Operations"

 

"Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game?

No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306"

meaning moddable gear will only be 334 and 336

 

"Can I acquire mats to max gear and mods without having to do grouped content?

Over time, as more patches are released in the expansion, you will be able to upgrade your gear more and more, including unlocking the moddable gear vendor."

 

why would casual players leave just because they cant get the last 4 IR? they are casual players gear should be the last of their worrys

Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca

[HKtheindomitable]

Ok then why NIM Raiders will get the 334 Gear first if later all player will get it?

For me it looks like a Carrot on a stick to prevent that the casual players will leave after the Release of 7.0

 

The same reason that when at launch Rakata gear was the highest tier, then it became the lowest tier. The same reason any game has gear with greater and greater stats each major update/expansion. It gives something to progress towards.

[Gwena]

i felt no difference in level synced planets from having 270 gear or 306 gear, since even in 270 gear most mobs got 1 shotted, there hasnt been any talks about changing level sync so you will still just 1 shot everything but gold mobs

Thank you for the reply! I was thinking about how we currently have veteran's edge stacks, which give us a little boost when level sync'd, and which max out at 30 when you have max level gear. So currently a level 75 character on Coruscant is weaker in 270 gear than in 306 gear, which is why I wanted 306 gear for all of my characters even though I play solo. And perhaps I am just not a very good player (all the more reason to not do Ops), but outside of standard mobs on low-mid level planets, my characters don't usually one-shot everything, so I like to get the best gear I can so Skytrooper #7,942 dies faster. But it really depends on how they do level sync; they don't have to make it so having the best gear matters.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Gwena

[Retillin]

Why is this whole tread basically dozens+ of people saying why they don't like 7.0 gearing, and one person basically replying to each post telling them they don't deserve/need/should have the gear they want.

 

Guess what, NIM raiders don't need better gear than solo players. They just WANT it because they are running OPs. That's it.