Full Auto & Charged Bolts

[ArmageddonX]

Charged Bolts makes Full Auto irrelevant doesn't it? I can use Charged Bolts back-to-back & if I'm reading correctly Charged Bolts does more damage than Full Auto. Full Auto also has a cool-down

 

Am I wrong in assuming that once you get Charged Bolts that Full Auto is pretty much useless?

[Introspective]

Charged Bolts makes Full Auto irrelevant doesn't it? I can use Charged Bolts back-to-back & if I'm reading correctly Charged Bolts does more damage than Full Auto. Full Auto also has a cool-down

 

Am I wrong in assuming that once you get Charged Bolts that Full Auto is pretty much useless?

 

Yes, you are. Full Auto has a number of perks to it, one of which is its beautiful synergy with dps talent trees. Also, the cast time involved in Charged Bolts means that Full Auto starts doing its damage sooner.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Introspective

[ArmageddonX]

Yes, you are. Full Auto has a number of perks to it, one of which is its beautiful synergy with dps talent trees. Also, the cast time involved in Charged Bolts means that Full Auto starts doing its damage sooner.

Ahh, thank you! So what is an ideal Gunnery Rotation?

[Introspective]

Ahh, thank you! So what is an ideal Gunnery Rotation?

 

Highly dependent on the situation, but your core single target ability will be Grav Round, which is the ability that replaces Charged Bolts once you get begin sinking a few talents into the tree. It provides an armor debuff, has procs to boost damage/reset cooldown on Full Auto, and also boosts damage for Demolition Round, the final talent in the tree. Oh, and High Impact Bolt.

 

I'm sure there are other people more qualified to comment on the matter, as I am a lowly Combat Medic, but as someone who plans to keep a dps off-spec I do try to pay at least some attention to these matters.

[entropyboy]

Ahh, thank you! So what is an ideal Gunnery Rotation?

 

IMO...

its more of a priority system, using abilities as they come off cooldown:

 

1. Full Auto when Curtain of Fire procs

2. High Impact Bolt

3. Full Auto

4. Demolition Round

5. Grav Round (the spam ability)

6. Hammer Shot (if ammo regen is needed)

 

higher crit rating moves Full Auto above High Impact Bolt (what crit this happens at = ???).

this is for single-target, and is still a pretty raw list.

 

Am I wrong in assuming that once you get Charged Bolts that Full Auto is pretty much useless?

 

Charged Bolts does good damage but is actually in competition with Grav Round for Gunnery-spec, and not Full Auto.

Grav Round and Full Auto get lots of love with the Gunnery skill tree.

Edited December 14, 2011 by entropyboy

[ArmageddonX]

Interesting... so Charged Bolts is more of a filler until you get Grav Round... Thank you for the rotation list.

[WidlYboy]

Am I wrong in assuming that once you get Charged Bolts that Full Auto is pretty much useless?

 

I don´t think Full Auto is useless, when you go Gunnery tree pure dps, then Full Auto with talents is really good in combination with grav rounds and demolition round

[Grey_Knight]

Full Auto is an asset in the Assault it has a 60% chance to end a cooldown and give you a free use of an ability after.

[cashrender]

Until you get Grav Round, Full Auto>Charged Shots in damage. I'll have to check when I get home from work if Grav Round actually beats it, but I'm pretty sure Full Auto still actually beats Wins in pure damage. My general priority (currently lv 21) for single target is:

 

Getting 5 stacks of Gravity Vortex up (5 Grav Rounds at the moment)

Full Auto off cooldown

High Impact Bolt

Grav Round between cooldowns

Hammer Shot weaving to maintain 3-4 on your regen rate

 

On bosses, burn through your ammo with the 5 Grav Rounds, Full Auto, and High Impact, then pop your Reload CD to get into the weave with Grav and Hammer while waiting on CDs.

[sfblackl]

I believe you are reading the damage wrong for Full Auto. Most tool tips say X over Y seconds, but it says X per second for 3 seconds.

 

Based on that, it is your best attack and most efficient.

 

The only one I would take over it is High Impact Bolt just because it isn't always available.

 

I only got mine into 30s, but knowing your efficient Single Target items is pretty important when you are going up solo (with companion) elite bosses. Single Target damage is a trooper weakness.

 

After those two, your next two most efficient are StockStrike (if you can get in range) and weirdly enough Mortor Volley.

 

For PVE, it isn't burst Single Target DPS, but sustainable DPS to get high HP targets dead - which is why being able to spam charged bolts leaves you gasping. Yes, you can go straight through your ammo...but with the penalty system on reload...that is bad.

 

Note: This not looking into various trees which gives you discounts or increase output.

[Astares]

2 Grav Rounds (3 secs) will out damage Full Auto if it is unskilled, even 2 Charged Bolts will. However even unskilled Full Auto has better damage to ammo ratio, a Full Auto nearly costs no ammo because it regens as Full Auto is channeled.

 

Once you skill up Full Auto via the Gunnery tree then it is as good or better then 2 Grav Rounds and still has the great damage to ammo ratio. Full Auto should always be on cooldown if Gunnery, especially before firing any Grav Rounds as they can proc Curtain of Fire and finish the cooldown on Full Auto.

[entropyboy]

some base numbers, i assume with no gear/stat scaling (0% crit) or armor penetration taken into account, for a 50 Gunnery

 

2667 dps Full Auto when Curtain of Fire procs

2477 dps High Impact Bolt with 5 stacks of Charged Barrel

2134 dps Full Auto

1905 dps High Impact Bolt with no Charged Barrel

1605 dps Full Auto without Gunnery skill points (base Full Auto)

1184 dps Demolition Round with 5 stacks of Gravity Vortex

1108 dps Charged Bolts

998 dps Grav Round

947 dps Demilition Round with no Gravity Vortex

495 dps Hammer Shot

 

yes, very rough numbers

Edited December 16, 2011 by entropyboy

[MBirkhofer]

2 Grav Rounds (3 secs) will out damage Full Auto if it is unskilled, even 2 Charged Bolts will. However even unskilled Full Auto has better damage to ammo ratio, a Full Auto nearly costs no ammo because it regens as Full Auto is channeled.

 

Once you skill up Full Auto via the Gunnery tree then it is as good or better then 2 Grav Rounds and still has the great damage to ammo ratio. Full Auto should always be on cooldown if Gunnery, especially before firing any Grav Rounds as they can proc Curtain of Fire and finish the cooldown on Full Auto.

 

This^.

 

Talents effect the ratios. But again, even base. Full auto is 2ammo over 3s. Charged bolts is 6 ammo over 3s.

 

I'm not sure how alacrity effects them. yet.

[entropyboy]

verified: ability tooltips change immediately to show damage increases from gear and skill tree.

 

yay!

[Bazior]

So which of the abilities does a higher level Commando tend to drop completely? Explosive Round looks like an ideal candidate.

 

Does Pulse Cannon become redundant with Hail and Mortar?

 

Trying to prioritise my hotkeys a bit.

 

How often do you find yourself having to resort to Hammer shot?

[Vicid]

What about teh fact that full auto only hits 2 out of 3 times if you take damage while channeling it?

[cashrender]

So which of the abilities does a higher level Commando tend to drop completely? Explosive Round looks like an ideal candidate.

 

Does Pulse Cannon become redundant with Hail and Mortar?

 

Trying to prioritise my hotkeys a bit.

 

How often do you find yourself having to resort to Hammer shot?

 

I dropped Explosive Round from my mian hotkeys, but still have it on my side bars for pesky cover users.

 

Pulse Cannon is amazing for melee swarmers and doesn't have the placement time of either of the other abilities.

 

Hammer Shot should generally be in your rotation as your filler to keep ammo steady rather then bleeding yourself dry. Only exception is if you're just straight ammo dumping for preparation of Reload. But for long fights (bosses, heroic elites, etc) hammer Shot is your spam shot for keeping your ammo regen balanced with your dps. Think of it as Steady Shot weaving on a Hunter in WoW, if you're familiar with it.

 

What about teh fact that full auto only hits 2 out of 3 times if you take damage while channeling it?

 

It's working as intended. When you suffer damage with a channeled ability, you lose ticks fo that ability. Just like when casting somethign witha cast bar, it pushes back the cast... both reduce your DPS.

Edited December 17, 2011 by cashrender

[Vayshen]

 

It's working as intended. When you suffer damage with a channeled ability, you lose ticks fo that ability. Just like when casting somethign witha cast bar, it pushes back the cast... both reduce your DPS.

 

I think what he means is, how effective/efficent etc is it knowing that there's a high chance it loses a tick.

[cashrender]

I think what he means is, how effective/efficent etc is it knowing that there's a high chance it loses a tick.

 

In this case, no, he actually thinks it's broken. He has two threads about open about how he thinks it needs to be fixed.

 

However, ti's effectiveness/efficiency is determined by knowing when to use it. In groups, you should rarely have the threat focused on you unless it's an aggro dump mechanic or random target ability. In solo play, just be smart about it. use it on melee opponents, not ranged. If the melee gets close, hit them with the knockback ability (Concussive Round?), then unload it while they're slowed and unable to hit you. It just takes learning when/how to utilize the abilities you have at your disposal. It's not just hit a sequence of button over and over again. Think tactically about when/how to set yourself up to get the most of your abilities.

[Bazior]

I dropped Explosive Round from my mian hotkeys, but still have it on my side bars for pesky cover users.

 

Pulse Cannon is amazing for melee swarmers and doesn't have the placement time of either of the other abilities.

 

Hammer Shot should generally be in your rotation as your filler to keep ammo steady rather then bleeding yourself dry. Only exception is if you're just straight ammo dumping for preparation of Reload. But for long fights (bosses, heroic elites, etc) hammer Shot is your spam shot for keeping your ammo regen balanced with your dps. Think of it as Steady Shot weaving on a Hunter in WoW, if you're familiar with it.

 

Thanks, good advice. Mirrors my experience in the interim. I find Hammer and Explosive are also nice for kite spam in PvP because I can run away from melee whilst still peppering damage on. Frustrates them an awful lot actually

 

Now what about Sticky Grenade I wonder? I feel it's nice if you want a bit of extra damage single/aoe and you are on the move but if you've got room to cast it seems like the GCD is better spent elsewhere?

Edited December 20, 2011 by Bazior

[ijoemomma]

IMO...

its more of a priority system, using abilities as they come off cooldown:

 

1. Full Auto when Curtain of Fire procs

2. High Impact Bolt

3. Full Auto

4. Demolition Round

5. Grav Round (the spam ability)

6. Hammer Shot (if ammo regen is needed)

 

higher crit rating moves Full Auto above High Impact Bolt (what crit this happens at = ???).

this is for single-target, and is still a pretty raw list.

 

Please help me to understand if I'm right here. I've always had issues with priority systems.

 

1. Ok so with the logic above, the very first time i shoot an enemy I'm going to be using full auto(3) because i don't meet the first 2 criteria. then i would start over right?
   
2. but this time. neiter 1-3 are available so I basically hit 5 and start over.
   
3. I'd then repeat 5 a few times and most likely get my stack of 5. then i would do either 1 or 2. depending on if 1 proc'd.
   
4. Rinse, repeat.
   

Is this right?

I shouldn't hit 2 though unless i have 5 stacks though, if I am not mistaken.

Also, I am not familiar with Curtain of Fire. I'm only level 20 atm. is that something i spec into?

 

EDIT: it looks like both curtain of fire and demo round are 35 and 40 abilities so at early levels it looks like im mostly doing full auto, grav rounds and high impact. Which is kind of what I've been doing since I hit 20 anyway.

Edited December 30, 2011 by ijoemomma