Jedi Guardian Feedback

[Vulcada]

For anyone who doesn't know you talk to the droid near the first(knight story start) taxi on tython to get to fleet then go right to the section after the elevator, you talk to a similar droid to choose spec and A/B ability choices.

 

Feedback:

After trying out all three specs with both options..

It more so feels like a combination of Sentinel and Guardian but weaker in both damage and defense. It's impossible to know how it will ACTUALLY be since no planets scale and the only real access we have is Onderon and the class storyline. It has potential but there's just too much missing to tell anything concrete.

 

Suggestions for other class tests in future PTS:

Give us the true character creation.

Give us access to the ship, none of the other planetary content and certain FPs on Odesson can't be reached for testing.

Add planetary scaling like in the live game so we know what fights will really be like.

Give us companions, I was only able to bring out Shae since she was in mail. Hard to test certain content otherwise.

Give access to 306 gear so that we can have a gauge of day 1 differences (assuming new gear is more powerful). The green 286ish armor and weapons tell us very little.

Give use the ability to set Darkside/Lightside points to test the alternate alignment abilities.

Give us maximum reputation with Onderon forces to allow us to grab the set there.

Add ALL options to abilities, if we only have 2 choices we can't truly test it.

Make it more obvious that you have to go to fleet to grab your abilities/gear in PTS. Could be a simple message.

 

One of the NPCs on fleet is also named Guradian and Juggernaut Tacticals, so that's.. Something.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Wonder if the PTS will be updated this week with another class or not. Even if the devs don't take our criticisms and suggestions into account, it'll take another few months to "test" each class if they're put on the PTS every couple weeks. Anything more than that and the expansion will hit before we've had a chance to test them all.

[Saurat]

It seems the majority of people don't want the game dumbed down, they want more choice and more options to pick the skills they want to let them play the game their way and how they think the class should feel.

 

Those in support seem to be the minority and always seem to be pimping their referral links. I don't know why it is that there is such a correlation between people trying to pimp a referral link and blindly supporting things without ever backing it up other than I like the change though I can't say why.

 

It will be interesting to see if the devs take the feedback on and give more choice and more options or they ignore it and dumb the game down further.

 

it seems they're mainly doing this dumbing down for PVP. so why not just slash half the abilities while in warzones and call it a day.

[LordCamTheGreat]

it seems they're mainly doing this dumbing down for PVP. so why not just slash half the abilities while in warzones and call it a day.

 

But that would be way too simple and easy to do!! We must instead gut PVE because it takes too long to kill people in PVP

 

It is still amazing that after 10 years, PVP and PVE aren't balanced separately. If they were, we wouldn't be having this issue.

 

Imagine if the new combat style UI had two tabs, one for PVP and one for PVE. Make it ridiculously obvious that one of them is for PVE and one is for PVP - with the new loadout system tech it should be very easy to make a PVE and PVP specific loadout.

[Nepthen]

Edit: Here is a list of available Guardian DCDs and in which patch they were added to demonstrate that the logic Jackie is citing does not hold up at all:

1) Saber Ward: Knight Ability: 1.0

2) Awe (mild DCD for Defense): Knight Ability: 1.0

3) Blade Blitz: Knight Ability: 4.0

4) Enure: Guardian Ability: 1.0

5) Focused Defense: 1.2

6) Warding Call: Defense Ability: 1.0

7) Saber Reflect: Guardian Ability: 2.0

 

So the great majority of content has been delivered while Guardians had all their DCDs save for Blade Blitz. C'mon there has been no DCD ability bloat. C'mon, from SnV and onwards Guardians had the same DCDs save again for Blade Blitz....

 

This is such a great point.... now do the rest of the classes!

 

When I read Jackie's post about how too many defenses have been added and it has affected the pacing of the game too much, I sat back and thought that most of the defenses have been for quite some time. Even on some classes I rarely play, most of the defensives have been there since launch.

[LJ_Gibbs]

You could 99.99% guarantee if this was any other IP and not Star Wars, this would be a game ending development decision.

 

Two issues with this:

 

100%

 

And it would have been shut down 5 years ago.

[Savej]

[*]Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

Remember that scene in Empire when Han Solo picks up a light saber?

 

 

[*]Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

Guardians should be able to pull enemies to them. Like in the trailer for KotFE when Thexan stops Arcann from killing Valkorion.

 

 

[*]What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

Doing Onderon dailies was a challenge. The dense folliage made it hard to see enemies, keep track of what I was fighting or find my companion's corpse. You'd think with all the artillery being used and lightsabers being swished around that there would be a fire.

 

 

[*]How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

It's good for comic relief I guess? Sometimes we all have to remember to laugh at our characters.

 

 

[*]If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

 

It's time to play Defense. Tank shortage problems solved?

Edited July 19, 2021 by Savej

[bladech]

Hi everyone,

 

Following up on the post I made a couple days ago. We wanted to bring clarity to some of the feedback we’ve been reading. First, we would like to share our philosophy on reducing the number of defensive cooldowns available.

 

Over several years and updates, more and more defensive cooldowns and abilities have been added to the game. Often times this was for class balance purposes, to allow some classes to keep up with others in terms of their defensive kit. Additionally, this was done without adjusting things like Operation boss mechanics which were designed around the class kits available at the time: mainly less defensive cooldowns. The sheer quantity of defensive cooldowns in the game today makes things more difficult to balance for both PvE and PvP. It has made some PvE mechanics completely avoidable, and made the time-to-kill metric in PvP grow steadily to the point where we are approaching tedious levels.

 

In 7.0, we want to reduce the quantity of defensive skills overall, across all classes, making for a more balanced and enjoyable experience in both PvE and PvP content, while at the same time making the defensives that remain more impactful and fun.

 

What does this look like in both modes?

• In PvP, our intent is balanced, more dynamic player encounters that move away from rotating defensive cooldowns and move more towards utilizing a broader set of skills in each class’s kit.
  
• In PvE, our intent is to take into account these changes, and adjust NPC encounters as needed to compensate.
  

Getting a bit more specific, we also intend to give upgraded versions of abilities when being presented as a choice. Here’s one example using Blade Blitz from the current PTS:

• Blade Blitz in the Live game:
  
• 45 second cooldown
  
• Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered.
  

Blade Blitz on PTS:

• 35 second cooldown
  
• Quickly rush forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while blitzing. Can be used while immobilized and purges movement-impairing effects when activated.
  

Instead of spending utility points to upgrade abilities, as in the current system, you will be presented with an already upgraded version of several abilities to choose between leading to more interesting decision making, customization, and greater choice for your kit.

 

In addition to defensive cooldowns, we want to streamline other abilities where it makes sense. For example, instead of dedicating an entirely separate ability and button press to a particular effect, we want to merge or combine them with others in an intuitive way. We can see this in action on the PTS with Freezing Force:

 

• Freezing Force is removed from Guardians on the PTS, but a modification to Blade Storm via the new ability choice tree upgrades Blade Storm into an AoE that also slows. This offers a similar effect to the old ability, but in a more efficient way.
  

The intent of the new ability system, which will replace the current utility points system, is that players can make meaningful choices to accommodate their play style or situational needs. Players will be able to pick their own ability modifications and customize their skills in this manner, with all of those choices able to be saved to a Loadout. Loadouts will be able to be swapped with similar ease to the current Utility point system. While the ability choice interface and Loadout features are still in development, those experiences are core to the system and we are working hard to get them to a state where they can be shared on the PTS in a future update. We will share more details in the future on both of these features.

 

One of the reasons we wanted to share these class changes with our players so early is because we wanted to get your feedback as we are still in the design phase of several other classes. As stated previously, you are not playing a final product. While very rough around the edges, the earlier we can share impactful changes like this the more we can take into account your feedback as we continue building out the remaining classes and iterating on ones you’re able to try out on the PTS.

 

Lastly, for this phase of PTS, the Jedi Guardian was missing both their breaker (Resolute) and interrupt (Force Kick). We understand that players may be worried about what that means for 7.0. It was never our intention to completely remove these from the game. We realize this has caused confusion, so we are going to add these back for the next phase of PTS with the caveat that they may change form in the future. We are currently iterating on different ways of utilizing breaker functionality that doesn’t necessarily require an independent icon on your hotbar as well as considering where interrupts fit in with the overall class and encounter design of 7.0. Because of this, we didn’t include these in the testable ability sets on PTS.

 

Please keep in mind that breakers and Interrupts will remain in-game, they just might not appear in the same form as they are now.

 

Thank you for playing PTS and giving us your constructive feedback.

 

sORRY, the majority of players aren't supporting ability pruning. More players will leave swtor because players support: 1. bug fixes, 2.better rewards for doing content,3. more content, 4. changes to ranked pvp quests and solo ranked mode, 5. new classes or at least new advanced classes for existing classes, 6. fighting credit sellers, 7. fighting credit inflation.

 

No one wants removal of our favourite abilities. People want to have bigger choice and decide what they need themselves

[Labranth]

Essentially they do what D&D did to Game of Thrones - oversimplify it. Audience didn’t like that at all, myself included. No one likes when the quality drops down. And I seriously doubt that within 6 months they can rebalance the entire game.

Hello there, Steam Deck, you are a bold one.

[tailsmp]

To play the devil's advocate here;

 

After all this commotion I decided to try out FFXIV to see what all the fuss was about. Disclaimer; I played some light MMOs back in the day as Knight Online, Silkroad and a lot of Single RPGs but didn't play WoW and the only reason I played this game was Kotor in the first place so I know I don't have much to compare here.

 

My two cents about FFXIV, the lack of skills while levelling; I played two characters(jobs) until 50 (I had to stop as the story without a voice was very boring for me and linear story with you having no voice in it doesn't help) and most of the time I only had 4-5 skills to use and I was just spamming the same 3 skills (or their new iterations with numbers as II, III, IV which makes it a lot easy to remember) over and over with no customisation or no choice in the matter at all while everyone was saying you get skill customisation, more skills, more OGCDs to use (as 2.5GCD is so slow) in the late game. For the levelling aspect, especially for a story-oriented MMO like SWTOR if this is the direction you want to go, I would advise avoiding it at all costs, it is no fun. But then again, it seems like IT IS fun in FFXIV for a lot of people as they are millions playing it at the moment so why not join the bandwagon, right?

 

On the other hand, I did watch 2-3 hours of youtube videos on rotations of different jobs in raids on FFXIV and it looked a lot easier and a lot more welcoming. Even I understood some of the core rotations of some jobs I never played. I have been playing SWTOR for a long time and I forgot my own class rotations in the end game if I don't play them for several months and the learning curve is a lot more steeper here. I understand that this is a choice and I agree that it doesn't have to be this complicated (note that we do have a lot more skills) so I can get behind the pruning and DCDs is a good starting point for this. I would also agree to the same with offensive skills as well, some of them are just staying on my hotbar so that maybe once in a month I use them (mostly by accidental clicking) if you say you don't need to put those abilities to your hotbar, then why not remove them from the game altogether? So, I agree that we need more streamlined skills to eliminate clutter.

[Duntil]

I do not main a Guardian, but I play most classes. It definitely feels like skills are missing. My skill bar is half empty. When in combat it was noticeable as skills I would instinctivly activate were not there. When they did not activate I found myself waiting for skills I had already used to finish their cooldown.

I main shadow/assassin. I use most of my abilities regularly during combat, and I feel if this was applied to one of these toons, I would find the enjoyment of the class diminished. I imagine this is the current case for Guardian players.

Please do not allow these changes. One of the best things about SWTOR is the number of skills. Please do not take this away.

[robwettengel]

Questions for devs:

 

1. Is it possible from an engine perspective to offer up a separate selection of abilities for PVE and PVP? Is it feasible to have upon clicking the PVP toggle, for the game to then bring up a a menu with PVP a listing of PVP loadouts and abilities that the player could then select. Here you can prune to your heart's content for your precious balancing issues. Prune too much--I just won't PVP anymore.

 

2. If it is not possible to establish a digital semi-permeable membrane between PVE and PVP can we be told why?

[TrixxieTriss]

To play the devil's advocate here;

 

After all this commotion I decided to try out FFXIV to see what all the fuss was about. Disclaimer; I played some light MMOs back in the day as Knight Online, Silkroad and a lot of Single RPGs but didn't play WoW and the only reason I played this game was Kotor in the first place so I know I don't have much to compare here.

 

My two cents about FFXIV, the lack of skills while levelling; I played two characters(jobs) until 50 (I had to stop as the story without a voice was very boring for me and linear story with you having no voice in it doesn't help) and most of the time I only had 4-5 skills to use and I was just spamming the same 3 skills (or their new iterations with numbers as II, III, IV which makes it a lot easy to remember) over and over with no customisation or no choice in the matter at all while everyone was saying you get skill customisation, more skills, more OGCDs to use (as 2.5GCD is so slow) in the late game. For the levelling aspect, especially for a story-oriented MMO like SWTOR if this is the direction you want to go, I would advise avoiding it at all costs, it is no fun. But then again, it seems like IT IS fun in FFXIV for a lot of people as they are millions playing it at the moment so why not join the bandwagon, right?

 

On the other hand, I did watch 2-3 hours of youtube videos on rotations of different jobs in raids on FFXIV and it looked a lot easier and a lot more welcoming. Even I understood some of the core rotations of some jobs I never played. I have been playing SWTOR for a long time and I forgot my own class rotations in the end game if I don't play them for several months and the learning curve is a lot more steeper here. I understand that this is a choice and I agree that it doesn't have to be this complicated (note that we do have a lot more skills) so I can get behind the pruning and DCDs is a good starting point for this. I would also agree to the same with offensive skills as well, some of them are just staying on my hotbar so that maybe once in a month I use them (mostly by accidental clicking) if you say you don't need to put those abilities to your hotbar, then why not remove them from the game altogether? So, I agree that we need more streamlined skills to eliminate clutter.

 

And do you play any swtor content besides story?

[LordCamTheGreat]

My two cents about FFXIV, the lack of skills while levelling; I played two characters(jobs) until 50 (I had to stop as the story without a voice was very boring for me and linear story with you having no voice in it doesn't help) and most of the time I only had 4-5 skills to use and I was just spamming the same 3 skills (or their new iterations with numbers as II, III, IV which makes it a lot easy to remember) over and over with no customisation or no choice in the matter at all while everyone was saying you get skill customisation, more skills, more OGCDs to use (as 2.5GCD is so slow) in the late game. For the levelling aspect, especially for a story-oriented MMO like SWTOR if this is the direction you want to go, I would advise avoiding it at all costs, it is no fun. But then again, it seems like IT IS fun in FFXIV for a lot of people as they are millions playing it at the moment so why not join the bandwagon, right?

 

if you say you don't need to put those abilities to your hotbar, then why not remove them from the game altogether? So, I agree that we need more streamlined skills to eliminate clutter.

 

Having played FFXIV to max level, the level 1-50 progression is horrific. You really are spamming the same 3 skills over and over and over and over, no room for skill expression. Even worse is the fact that the global cooldown is a second longer than in SWTOR. What makes SWTOR great is that you level so fast and gain a large amount of abilities relatively quickly, ensuring that you always have the tools to do what you need to do at each stage of the game while also having room to experiment and try different things. In my opinion the main draw of FFXIV is the large quantity of story and group content that's added more frequently than any other large MMO.

 

For your second point, once again, if you don't want the ability you have the freedom to remove it and not use it.

If I want to use the ability and it has been removed, you don't notice a change but I do. I can't choose to regain all the abilities and use them. There is a choice on live to use or not use an ability, there is not a choice on the PTS and that is why it is bad.

[LordCamTheGreat]

Questions for devs:

 

1. Is it possible from an engine perspective to offer up a separate selection of abilities for PVE and PVP? Is it feasible to have upon clicking the PVP toggle, for the game to then bring up a a menu with PVP a listing of PVP loadouts and abilities that the player could then select. Here you can prune to your heart's content for your precious balancing issues. Prune too much--I just won't PVP anymore.

 

2. If it is not possible to establish a digital semi-permeable membrane between PVE and PVP can we be told why?

 

These are two really good questions that should be answered as it would completely solve the issue of PVP balance negatively affecting PVE (as it has since launch).

I cannot imagine why the devs would be unable to offer separate abilities between PVE and PVP when:

 

a) The devs are creating a loadout system and

b) There are already PVP zones that prevent abilities being used because you're in a PVP area - so most of the tech is already in the game.

[phalczen]

There are already PVP zones that prevent abilities being used because you're in a PVP area - so most of the tech is already in the game.

 

I am not aware of any ability per se that cannot be used in a pvp area. You cannot use regular adrenals in warzones, but you can use them in open pvp areas like the Ilum zone during gree event and outlaws den. You cannot use any ability that requires a companion to be present, like the Unity legacy ability, but that’s tied to the fact that you cannot summon a companion in a warzone or those open world pvp areas.

 

So I think it’s a huge jump to assume “most of the tech is already in the game.”

[LordCamTheGreat]

I am not aware of any ability per se that cannot be used in a pvp area. You cannot use regular adrenals in warzones, but you can use them in open pvp areas like the Ilum zone during gree event and outlaws den. You cannot use any ability that requires a companion to be present, like the Unity legacy ability, but that’s tied to the fact that you cannot summon a companion in a warzone or those open world pvp areas.

 

So I think it’s a huge jump to assume “most of the tech is already in the game.”

 

You agreed that the devs have the ability to turn off certain abilities in places and prevent you from doing certain things so I don't know how it's a jump to assume that they can do the same thing but with other clickable things on your hotbar.

 

Open world PVP is another question entirely, should it be balanced around warzone PVP or what you have access to in PVE? If it should be balanced around warzone PVP, then being flagged as a PVP player should switch you to your PVP loadout - and we know for a fact that the devs are making a loadout system and have the capability to on the fly switch from one set of abilities to another.

 

With the knowledge we currently have about what is in the game and is being worked on, it is a step and not a huge jump imo.

[tailsmp]

And do you play any swtor content besides story?

 

Yes of course, I mostly play VM OPS with some NiMs in between and that's why I said I find it hard to remember my class rotations in the VM OPS if I didn't play that class for several months. I don't think you would need to remember your rotation in SMs and story most of the time (although this is another problem with gaming being too easy) so I am expecting if the skill gap/learning curve from the sheer number of same skills that do the same thing or does nothing at all is eliminated other parts of the game could be more fun as well, like old OPS in a normal mode requiring at least some mechanics so it doesn't feel like a 6-year-old could finish them. I can see that the reaction for getting rid of DCDs for tanks or others are important but from their statement I see that they don't want to get rid of the mechanics behind it just the reduction of the number of skills

[Sarova]

I've just exited the PTS after creating and trying out a Focus Guardian. First the positive: the download and install was very quick. That's the end of the positives; I'm afraid to say I found the rest of it to be awful even taking into account the restrictiveness the devs have explained (note this is my opinion and experience).

(scroll for v short version)

 

Jedi Guardian Feedback (Focus):

• Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.
  

No it definitely doesn't.

I tested a focus guardian and selected option A however, key skills which I frequently use were missing:

• no force kick
  
• no saber throw
  
• no combat focus
  
• no Enure
  
• no Resolute
  
• no dispatch
  
• no awe
  
• no freezing focus
  
• no saber reflect
  
• no utilities
  

Which are all the defensive skills BUT even though option A is offensive, I did not expect is to be so useless. Having no interrupts or stun-break abilities is ridiculous.

• Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

Offensive only skills with no utilities and no defensive abilities is just very wrong. Missing Enure is huge. And no saber throwing? Who's idea was that? That's a whole thing with a guardian/warrior. The lack of abilities to get out of cc/stun is also huge with this spec. I'm going by soloing with regard to rotation - I imagine the raiders will have (have had) a lot more to say. I tried the "Cleaning up the Streets" mission on Onderon. After level 20 influence Paxton died 3 times whilst my character was stunned, I gave up and went to do stuff on Tython. It's that bad. When I got to Tython I saw other level 75s running around doing missions, so I'm guessing I wasn't alone.

 

I don't understand the point of the forced ability choices, nor why we don't have a skill tree (not one I could see/adjust). I wrongly thought that we'd be able to choose any skill from the DPS guardian's repertoire (capped to the number of skills expected at level 75) to suit our own play style. I did not expect to be stripped of all our best skills and forced to choose between 2/3 very restrictive play styles. And someone please explain what "loadouts" are supposed to be.

 

• What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?
  

Pretty bad with choice A. It's not viable to have a character with no offensive abilities even with a healing companion. There a numerous stunnable enemies in story and various missions especially in everything from kotfe onward. As a soloer this is nightmare because we no longer have any defence against them. No-one in their right mind would attempt to go into PvP like this.

 

• How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

Not. Focus guardian is one of my favourites (as is the Sith equivalent). At least a dozen of my alts will be redundant if this change stays even remotely like this. Actually, this is making me reconsider staying with SWTOR as a sub from 7.0 (and I would not bother with free/preferred either).

 

With PTS now live, you can help test the Combat Style for the Jedi Guardian.

 

Please answer the following questions:

• If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

I'm afraid you lost my interest in testing after the first one I tried. I really, really hoped the bad feedback experiences so far were an exaggeration; they are not. I suggest you close the PTS and don't re-open it until there has been a radical overhaul as if people see this they'll have second thoughts about the game, Star Wars or not.

I'll also say why weren't we able to actually view the utilities? Did I miss where it was said these would not be available or are they being removed all together?

 

 

General Feedback:

Testing with the restrictive level 75 character is an uphill struggle under these conditions as our characters are lower geared, have no legacies/SHs, have no galaxy ship, have level a level 1 companion, and no speeder skill (my speeder was slower than running and yes I did time it) and there's no way I could find to train up your speeder skill. Even the Kurtob alliance mount (minimum 100% speed) I had access to wasn't working. All these restrictions put me off testing actual combat even more. After the massive fail rate at the first Onderon daily I did, I gave up (especially as it would take forever to get anywhere on a slow poke mount in Onderon). Even the trainers are disabled so a) you can't complete the "talk to trainer" quest on Tython and b) can't increase your mount skill. Was there no way to have kept our PTS legacies intact?

 

 

TL;DR - MASSIVE NOPE FROM ME.

[robwettengel]

You agreed that the devs have the ability to turn off certain abilities in places and prevent you from doing certain things so I don't know how it's a jump to assume that they can do the same thing but with other clickable things on your hotbar.

 

Open world PVP is another question entirely, should it be balanced around warzone PVP or what you have access to in PVE? If it should be balanced around warzone PVP, then being flagged as a PVP player should switch you to your PVP loadout - and we know for a fact that the devs are making a loadout system and have the capability to on the fly switch from one set of abilities to another.

 

With the knowledge we currently have about what is in the game and is being worked on, it is a step and not a huge jump imo.

 

Yes, they can turn off certain abilities in WZs (like rocket boost) and not have WZ adrenals being used elsewhere in the game. Therefore, they have some sort of tag or code to signifiy to the engine: WZ. Some items can only be used in certain operations, so it stands to reason that each op has its own tag. This allows the server to keep track of what assets to load, and whatever else it needs to do to maintain all these various instances for WZs (ranked and unranked), ops, FPs (with differing difficulty levels), KOTFEET chapters (with varying difficulty), and other play from the prologue up to Onderon.

 

Hopefully this concept of loadouts is the missing piece of the puzzle, that they can be suitably nudged to pursue sufficiently to make this possible. The ability to do so definitely appears to be in the game, but this might be early game code that is in too delicate of a state to mess around with. Either that or they tried it and the engine couldn't handle it in internal team testing so players never even heard a whiff about it. A third option is no one ever thought of it before, but I find that downright unbelievable because it strikes me as being common sense. I believe this is something--if it can be implemented--that would make everybody happy. Less dev time spent on having to go through with rebalancing the whole game, when--now--PVP and PVE could be balanced in isolation from each other.

 

Were I a computer programmer, I'd probably even be interested in writing up some sample code, but I am a military historian and unqualified to do so. I only had one computer programming course ever, BASIC programming back during freshman year of high school in 1993, which I passed with a D average.

[robwettengel]

And someone please explain what "loadouts" are supposed to be.

 

Exactly what loadouts are is another question mark. In the stream, Charles indicated that loadouts are related to combat styles to permit us to combat styles on the fly. The test of the JG was trying out different combat styles (the A and B choices). This early test means we will likely be able to access our entire toolbox of abilities, but only certain one's on certain loadouts--say you could have one loadout that emphasizes offensive firepower (lightning, rocks, blasters, sla****y-slash), survivability, perhaps a balanced approach that incorporates a bit of both. We have no idea how many total combat style "slots" we're going to have when the game goes live--or even on PTS. Just keep in mind that what you just read is my best educated guess as to how all this stuff is going to work.

[phalczen]

And someone please explain what "loadouts" are supposed to be.

1. Every five levels you will choose between three things, most of which are new or old passives, old utilities rolled into passives, or in some cases between active abilities of which we used to have all 3.

2. We will be able to save these choices into an empty “ load out” slot just like we save outfits in outfit designer slots, so that we can swap between builds easily

3. The choices that the droid on PTS gives us between A and B are examples of choices we might have made along the leveling path, and saved as templates that we would, in the future, be able to easily swap between. However, the user interface to make those choices and save templates does not exist yet. So they had to give us the droid and some default choices.

4. The devs want feedback on how we think the disciplines, now “Combat Styles,” are going to feel with their defensive and mobility abilities and utilities nerfed. Presumably all classes will be undergoing similar degrees of nerfing.

5. The devs want to reduce ability bloat and probably need to get all disciplines down to exactly the same number of abilities so that people can save their different load outs across what used to be advanced classes... so they have to make sure that Seer Sage and Infiltration Shadow and defense Guardian and watchman sentinel all have the same number of abilities so that players can swap between those load outs as easily as they swap between outfits.

 

I'll also say why weren't we able to actually view the utilities? Did I miss where it was said these would not be available or are they being removed all together?

JackieKo said it here:

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9957653#post9957653

 

Interrupts and stun breakers are not going away per se. Their absence as specific abilities on PTS is partly intended, partly not intended. I say partly intended since Force Leap, Force Stasis, and in the case of defense, Hilt Bash can all interrupt. That post I linked above Sarova indicates they are considering rolling interrupts and stun breakers into existing abilities, so that we don’t have to press extra buttons.

 

I’m trying very hard NOT to editorialize with this reply, but I am simplifying the Dev speak. Yes utilities are gone as choices but many have been moved to passives or incorporated into the original ability. Yes defensive/mobility cooldowns are being nerfed to, at least, forced choices between some of them when we used to have all of them. Yes interrupts and stun breakers may change in 7.0 too, but in a future version of PTS they will probably bring them back until they can figure out properly what to do with them. Again, this is my interpretation of what the devs have said and not my specific feedback on the changes.

[Sarova]

1. Every five levels you will choose between three things, most of which are new or old passives, old utilities rolled into passives, or in some cases between active abilities of which we used to have all 3.

2. We will be able to save these choices into an empty “ load out” slot just like we save outfits in outfit designer slots, so that we can swap between builds easily

3. The choices that the droid on PTS gives us between A and B are examples of choices we might have made along the leveling path, and saved as templates that we would, in the future, be able to easily swap between. However, the user interface to make those choices and save templates does not exist yet. So they had to give us the droid and some default choices.

4. The devs want feedback on how we think the disciplines, now “Combat Styles,” are going to feel with their defensive and mobility abilities and utilities nerfed. Presumably all classes will be undergoing similar degrees of nerfing.

5. The devs want to reduce ability bloat and probably need to get all disciplines down to exactly the same number of abilities so that people can save their different load outs across what used to be advanced classes... so they have to make sure that Seer Sage and Infiltration Shadow and defense Guardian and watchman sentinel all have the same number of abilities so that players can swap between those load outs as easily as they swap between outfits.

 

 

JackieKo said it here:

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9957653#post9957653

 

Interrupts and stun breakers are not going away per se. Their absence as specific abilities on PTS is partly intended, partly not intended. I say partly intended since Force Leap, Force Stasis, and in the case of defense, Hilt Bash can all interrupt. That post I linked above Sarova indicates they are considering rolling interrupts and stun breakers into existing abilities, so that we don’t have to press extra buttons.

 

I’m trying very hard NOT to editorialize with this reply, but I am simplifying the Dev speak. Yes utilities are gone as choices but many have been moved to passives or incorporated into the original ability. Yes defensive/mobility cooldowns are being nerfed to, at least, forced choices between some of them when we used to have all of them. Yes interrupts and stun breakers may change in 7.0 too, but in a future version of PTS they will probably bring them back until they can figure out properly what to do with them. Again, this is my interpretation of what the devs have said and not my specific feedback on the changes.

This is brilliant and exactly the detailed explanation I was looking for, thanks!

Edited July 21, 2021 by Sarova

[GhostSana]

Okay so first things first general feedback here

 

Can we please change the mount speed to been 30% its boring and time wasting slogging around on foot

 

If possible can we have the gear vendors give options for enhancement mods so we can tailor our gear more specifically to what the different specs would need. Also can we get 306 gear from the beginning I know its possible to equip gear buy new gear equip newer higher level gear like live but its just tedious.

 

Can we please get a list next time of all the skills and abilities each spec is meant to have break it down into the class has this as base then each break it down by spec and ability path so we know exactly what abilities we should and shouldn't have especially with the abilities not always appearing on the bars. It took me ages to figure out Blade Storm was actually in my ability book and not simply missing.

 

This will also provide clarity on what we should have I still do not know if the Vigilance options are both meant to be missing Focused Defense with it been given to only Focus and Defense on purpose or if it bugged out. A problem made worse by the wording of the ability in the A path since its stated to reduce cooldown for Enure on the level breakdown list but says it reduces Focused Defense cooldown below on the path breakdown list making it seem pointless to give to Vigilance as they don't even have the ability.

 

Companions are awfully awfully weak in both the healing/damage they do and the amount of damage they can take (I didn't even attempt to make them tank) making it hard to test out how things are when your constantly either scrambling to tag all mobs before they explode or just trying to stay alive through los tricks and other means. Even leveling them didn't have any real effect bar buffing health Altuur at comp level 22 had about 38khp and Vette at level 50 had 36k not sure if this just a testing thing or actual planned changes for companions some feedback on this would be very nice because it feels like they're running around with a battle royale collar wired into a laser tag vest.

 

Level scaling for flashpoints needs be reintroduced so people can get an actual idea of what the specs and paths feel like inside them.

 

Also the Meridian Complex Flashpoint appears to be completely disabled not sure why this is though as both SoV and SoE are up.

 

Main Path I tested was Vigilance B doing the story until I got my ship then skipping the story through to do the Onslaught content.

 

I only started playing swtor again this year around Jan/Feb after a very very long break I played Marauder back near Launch and Dipped in and out for a bit before stopping playing Jugg and Guardian mostly so this is probably the class I feel most comfortable with. I mostly do content solo with the side bit of pvp and was looking into doing ops either as Tank or DPS after a long time away from raiding back when I used to do full on warcrack raiding before it burned me out.

 

[*]Does this feel like a Jedi Guardian? Please explain why or why not.

 

Yes and no the lack of anything but Saber Ward for proper DCD was horribly apparent and combined with the weak companion resulted in a lot of downtime or in the more tricky areas dead time dead time. Mostly brought about by trying to keep aggro on the current pulled pack and chaining another group (My companion seemed to be doing this a lot but it was on SoV which is fairly mob heavy, actually scratch that I just figured out its the cone effect on blade storm) or having another group spawn mid fight and turning your companion into swiss cheese instantly then you.

 

Normally you could take an extra group or two as guardian/jugg on live and I did a few times here but there was no margin for error and I was playing far more as a companion tank running around trying to keep everything focused on me which would inevitably pull another group leading to the same problem this been made much much worse by the lack of Saber Throw which along with Focused Defense and Force Kickwhere the three abilities I missed the most.

 

Focused Defense due to it been simply the most effective DCD (for me at least) it keeps your propped up and going in fights when the going gets tough especially when large damage spikes appear.

 

Force Kick I lost count how often I kept hitting my T my hotkey for it and having the tutorial screen pop in my face whilst trying to stop either a mob healing which I couldn't thus drawing out the fight or a mob doing a high damage ability, this made for very frustrating fights after the latest enemy I was fighting had triggered my companions battle royale collar by blasting them with a high damage move with limited options to stop them that either weren't on a long cooldown (Force Stasis) or would push them into another group with Throw assuming that wasn't on cd either.

 

Saber Throw though been removed felt like playing with 1 hand behind my back since its the only long range pulling tool Knights/Warriors have especially since Companion Pulling would lead to a smoking scorched corpse.

 

The lack of been able to use this at range and los pull or just switch and hit the one member of a group who's furthest away then move out of there range to get them to follow you, so that you could then engage without been in aggro range of other groups just felt painful.

 

Damage Wise I'd say its about the same but that's about the only thing I found the same.

 

Due to the weak companion and utter lack of DCD's (Blade Blitz is far too dependent and situational on whats actually going on around you be a full time proper save your arse DCD and can land you in more trouble if not used properly) I didn't feel like a Guardian I felt like a Sent/Mara but with less damage less a weapon and less tools to get out of trouble or control the fight the way I'm used to.

 

[*]Is there anything that feels missing or out of place in the combat rotation?

 

From my normal rotation I used damage wise just saber throw once I finally found Blade Storm I know clarity is missing but I have a really bad habit of forgetting to pop it >_>. But honestly apart from elites and bosses I rarely had time to get into a proper rotation too focused on tagging everything.

 

[*]What are your initial thoughts with the effectiveness of the Jedi Guardian against enemies?

 

Enemies are doing the same amount of damage but overall Vig spec B felt weak horribly especially with the weak companion who was healing for roughly half or 2/3 the amount a level 1 companion on live would and dying the moment someone glanced at them. Enemies would die fairly quickly but its far too easy to end up in over your head, some of the scripted fights like against the keeper elite chasing after Arn and the battle on Mek'sha felt horribly stop and start and could be frustrating with the companion and no way to keep alive. Compared to Onderon where it had been fairly smooth it was quite jarring.

 

SoV on story was tougher then normal and again was stop and start (aggro'ing most of the first room in one go with Blade Storm was mildly entertaining though) or in some cases simply kamikaze into groups just to thin them out simply because I knew I'd end up fighting several groups at once and was fairly effective at that. Gorga Brak was simple enough with the only worry been the standard problem of the companion deciding to teleport and hug them. Forgot about Goldie, Bask was much tougher but that was less him and more grabbing all the adds before the companion again went boom, Troya was dead in moments.

 

The Heta Kol fight is damn near impossible to do on story mode as Vigi B and I don't think A could do much better either Defense or one of the Focus paths might have a chance against her but that's fighting her as if you where trying to solo her on veteran fighting out in the corridor and los the adds not as you would normally on story.

 

As it stands I'm not sure anyone would take someone in a Opp or MM flashpoint if they spec'd this way damage output is much the same but they require too much healing if/when the aoe or other damage spikes kicked in compared to other classes with the lack of DCD's and passive aoe damage reduction and the cone of doom would make most players remove. Anyone even trying to attempt to do pvp like this would be beyond insanity.

 

[*]How are you enjoying or not enjoying this class?

 

I'm not enjoying it very much at all I have little to no control and my ability to survive is almost zero and I would not find myself playing this spec at all ever and while I think A has far more tools its still got the same glaring weakness I've found playing B and I can't say I can ever remember seeing mobs ever been slowed by blade storm just the normal stun on the primary target, after double checking I can't actually see Energy Burst listed in my ability list which is odd since I know the cone effect has been happening.

 

At a glance as it stands I can't see myself playing Guardian specs much come LotS I know its early and we haven't yet seen whats happening with the other classes and specs but right now I cannot see it been much fun in pve or pvp.

 

Vigilance tends to die horribly in pvp the moment FD is on cd and that seems to have been removed entirely for this spec and having to choose between able to snare an opponent (assuming it works) or having a long range cap breaking move and then between some kind of dcd and a situational mobility one feels like its losing far too much for little point.

 

Pve other classes can bring the armour debuff and currently would be easier to keep alive as for solo content if whatever is going on with the companions is an actual intended change then you'll actually make it impossible for people to do some solo story stuff let alone solo veteran stuff

 

I know this is early testing but some feedback on whats happening with Companions and Focused Defense would be appreciated.

 

Last thing if your having the issue with balancing pvp or pve because X ability is making a class too strong in one but it needs the other to survive then keep them apart. Personally pvp I've found it not so much dcd been a problem but for me personally its non-heal spec dps healing and murdering but thats just me and I might be biased just don't tune it down so it turns into a 1 shot fest no one wants that.

 

[*]If you have feedback on the different disciplines and ability paths, please note your feedback accordingly so we can track it.

[Renata_Roselli]

This has to be the worst thing to ever happen to SWTOR. I guess BioWare trying to dumb down the game somehow will make players sub to a crappy overhauled combat system. This is exactly what Sony Online Entertainment did with Star Wars: Galaxies, which eventually caused the game to shut down.