How Is This a "Big" Expansion?

[arunav]

The class ability options are a welcome change, surely. It'll be great to be able to play any Force or Tech spec on any given Force or Tech class.

 

I don't see this as a "big" expansion, however, considering that's what BW was promoting for some time now.

 

It's smaller in size than SoR/3.x (which had 2 good FPs, 2 Ops, 1 planet, 1 daily area, class-specific missions, the newer rakghoul event, the Rishi arena map, probably forgetting some things), and the 4 FPs leading up to it.

 

It's way smaller than RotHC/2.x (which had the last large explorable planet in SWTOR, Makeb, 2 Czerka FPs, 3 Ops + TC, totaling 18 bosses, the addition of multiple daily areas, PVP arenas and ranked seasons, GSF(!!), the Stronghold system, bounty hunter event, a ton of new things added to the CM, etc).

 

If anything, this expansion seems like another on the scale of Onslaught, which was small but included a substantial change to the gearing system and the introduction of the tactical slot (both of which were good improvements). This time the substantial change is being able to use any Force or Tech spec on a given Force or Tech class.

 

But content? 1 planet that will double as a daily area - we know the general size of those. 1 FP. 1 Operation.

 

That's EA/BW celebrating the 10th anniversary?!

 

I wasn't expecting much, since EA made up its mind about SWTOR many years ago, but BW definitely shouldn't have advertised this as "big". It's not.

Edited July 1, 2021 by arunav

[BallisticKaine]

There is still stuff they haven't shown us either. This might be a teaser to more to come. We are still 4 months at earliest of release.

[casirabit]

They also said that it would also go into next year and they would be posting for additional things that are going to happen around the time period when it happens.

 

 

 

The Celebration Continues!

 

Legacy of the Sith is just the start of our 10th year celebration, and you can expect so much more throughout next year, including regular story updates, Master Mode R-4 Anomaly, further UI updates, a PvP System revamp, more Galactic Seasons, a new Flashpoint, new locations, tech modernization, visual improvements, and maybe even a few more surprises!

 

We cannot thank you enough for the years of support, and we can’t wait for you to get your hands on Legacy of the Sith this Holiday. Subscribers will get the chance to check out the changes as soon as the expansion hits our public test server in the near future. Keep your eyes on swtor.com for more Legacy of the Sith updates!

 

 

https://www.swtor.com/legacyofthesith

Edited July 1, 2021 by casirabit

[Drussy]

I agree, always nice to have new expansion but I don't see the link between this one and the 10y celebration. Could be any random expansion. Even the next updates annouced with the "year of celebration" are just some classic content update, with same schedule scale as usual, nothing extraordinary...

Waited nothing still disappointed :/

[Wilgard]

The class ability options are a welcome change, surely. It'll be great to be able to play any Force or Tech spec on any given Force or Tech class.

 

I don't see this as a "big" expansion, however, considering that's what BW was promoting for some time now.

 

It's smaller in size than SoR/3.x (which had 2 good FPs, 2 Ops, 1 planet, 1 daily area, class-specific missions, the newer rakghoul event, the Rishi arena map, probably forgetting some things), and the 4 FPs leading up to it.

 

It's way smaller than RotHC/2.x (which had the last large explorable planet in SWTOR, Makeb, 2 Czerka FPs, 3 Ops + TC, totaling 18 bosses, the addition of multiple daily areas, PVP arenas and ranked seasons, GSF(!!), the Stronghold system, bounty hunter event, a ton of new things added to the CM, etc).

 

If anything, this expansion seems like another on the scale of Onslaught, which was small but included a substantial change to the gearing system and the introduction of the tactical slot (both of which were good improvements). This time the substantial change is being able to use any Force or Tech spec on a given Force/Tech class.

 

But content? 1 planet that will double as a daily area - we know the general size of those. 1 FP. 1 Operation.

 

That's EA/BW celebrating the 10th anniversary?!

 

I wasn't expecting much, since EA made up its mind about SWTOR many years ago, but BW definitely shouldn't have advertised this as "big". It's not.

 

Yes, it is true that the above mentioned two expansions dropped the listed new content. However, it is important to note that this was not all at once and was over the course of 2-3 years for both expansions, if I recall correctly.

 

The amount of released information we have seen for Legacy of the Sith is still minimal. There could be more that drops at the start of 7.x, there could not. But comparing the base expansion material that has been released thus far to two fully released expansions is illogical.

 

Though the possibility that similar amounts of content may drop over the course of Legacy of the Sith, I for one will not be keeping my hopes up that such will happen. Would be nice to see though.

[wistarie]

I'm quite happy - of course I don't assume this will be something extra big - but, in these times with SW IP changes and after 10 years, it's nice to see EA/BW secured existence of SWTOR for few next years and they are able to come with a new content.

[Hadsil]

We can always dream they will surprise us with 8 new individual Class stories. Put a period on the end of the current story for your character and start a new one from the beginning. Your corresponding previous character of the same class makes a cameo or two. If you have more than one which one appears is random or maybe always your first.

 

They can even keep the same voice actors, switching up roles. Maybe your new Jedi Knight sounds like your old Jedi Consular or maybe Bounty Hunter. Your new Sith Warrior sounds like your old Republic Trooper.

 

Well, I can always dream it.

[LeoAugustina]

Agreed.

1 Flashpoint its like 6.3, I was waiting 2 more and same with planets

[sGroggy]

I agree, always nice to have new expansion but I don't see the link between this one and the 10y celebration. Could be any random expansion. Even the next updates annouced with the "year of celebration" are just some classic content update, with same schedule scale as usual, nothing extraordinary...

Waited nothing still disappointed :/

 

Indeed. Of course I welcome any new expansions, updates, and so on.

But the things they have announced so far, are things I would expect to get anyway, even without a 10 year celebration.

 

I imagine during a BW/EA meeting someone came up with a very bright idea along the lines of "Let's share a very vague roadmap for the coming year with modifications which we were planning on doing anyway, and call this a 'year long celebration'. Our subscribers may just be foolish enough to buy it. Maybe throw in a coupon for a free deco to make it more convincing." End of meeting.

[TalleraLane]

They also said that it would also go into next year and they would be posting for additional things that are going to happen around the time period when it happens.

 

 

 

The Celebration Continues!

 

Legacy of the Sith is just the start of our 10th year celebration, and you can expect so much more throughout next year, including regular story updates, Master Mode R-4 Anomaly, further UI updates, a PvP System revamp, more Galactic Seasons, a new Flashpoint, new locations, tech modernization, visual improvements, and maybe even a few more surprises!

 

We cannot thank you enough for the years of support, and we can’t wait for you to get your hands on Legacy of the Sith this Holiday. Subscribers will get the chance to check out the changes as soon as the expansion hits our public test server in the near future. Keep your eyes on swtor.com for more Legacy of the Sith updates!

 

 

https://www.swtor.com/legacyofthesith

 

Really?

 

Sorry but while there will be changes coming, this really was the big announcement, anything else will be minor.

 

While it is all fine for a new xpac and centrally on par with 6.0, it was also nothing special or exceptional and saw nothing really to say this is a celebration xpac for our 10th year.

 

I am not saying as a xpac 7.0 is poor, just not really the "something special" that was mentioned by SWTOR for the 10th year. As said as a xpac it is all fine and good, for the 10th year, underwhelming.

[Effec]

I am looking forward to finally be able to mix and match skills and weapons on different classes but it’s been 10 years too late to be honest.

[Alssaran]

I will repeat what I have said for a decade whenever people bean-count things like: "but expansion X had six dungeons, whereas this one has only five!" for any MMORPG out there.

 

It's not about the quantity of an expansion feature, but the quality. The reason they mentioned several times that they have been working on this for a while is probably due to the detachment of advanced classes from base classes, which I can imagine took some more coding than just setting a variable, loadouts, QoL improvements such as hotbar saving for different specs/AC (something I have wanted for a long time) and the visual enhancements and tech improvements slated for the first half of 2022.

 

There was actually a ton of stuff there between the lines, not all of which coming with LOTS. And in both LOTS' and 2022's slide it said "And more!" right at the bottom, so we don't know all of it yet.

 

Overall, I'm quite happy with what was shown. My bounty hunter can finally wield a blaster rifle/assault cannon and my trooper can become a proper sniper. It's also nice to know that the game's continued operation is (so far) assured for a few years to come.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Alssaran

[ForfiniteStories]

Thank you, Bioware, for spending your resources on dead PvE content. But I digress, aren't raiders one of the few people who actually have to pay for a sub? I suppose it makes sense then. That "1%" is small, albeit probably crucial to the game in some shape or form.

 

GSF on the other hand, does not require a subscription, so regardless of its popularity, it seems to once again get the short end of the stick. At least PvP was mentioned.

[Phoraxin]

The class ability options are a welcome change, surely. It'll be great to be able to play any Force or Tech spec on any given Force or Tech class.

 

I don't see this as a "big" expansion, however, considering that's what BW was promoting for some time now.

 

It's smaller in size than SoR/3.x (which had 2 good FPs, 2 Ops, 1 planet, 1 daily area, class-specific missions, the newer rakghoul event, the Rishi arena map, probably forgetting some things), and the 4 FPs leading up to it.

 

It's way smaller than RotHC/2.x (which had the last large explorable planet in SWTOR, Makeb, 2 Czerka FPs, 3 Ops + TC, totaling 18 bosses, the addition of multiple daily areas, PVP arenas and ranked seasons, GSF(!!), the Stronghold system, bounty hunter event, a ton of new things added to the CM, etc).

 

If anything, this expansion seems like another on the scale of Onslaught, which was small but included a substantial change to the gearing system and the introduction of the tactical slot (both of which were good improvements). This time the substantial change is being able to use any Force or Tech spec on a given Force or Tech class.

 

But content? 1 planet that will double as a daily area - we know the general size of those. 1 FP. 1 Operation.

 

That's EA/BW celebrating the 10th anniversary?!

 

I wasn't expecting much, since EA made up its mind about SWTOR many years ago, but BW definitely shouldn't have advertised this as "big". It's not.

 

At least business model is fair - sub price is justifiable for me and as former World of Tanks player I'll take this small xpac any day over confidence tricks and milking players dry by Wargaming. On the other hand I'm casual player - I don't raid, I just play story, do some crafting, explore and do achievements and legacy stuff like grinding for HK-51 which I recently got/reputation for sake of completion. Also I think we should give Bioware more time - they teased xpac but I hope they have more in the tank for us

 

I'm also glad that being under wings of EA game is still up and running. EA is notorious for killing of projects that do not bode well like Anthem and developers need to work with game core that is almost 10 years old, that's impressive for me because legacy code bases are notoriously hard to work with yet they keep updating the game adding new stuff when most projects under EA would be lucky to get half lifespan of SW:TOR(Anyone remember Wilson killing off most of EA free to play online games in 2015 like NFS/Fifa World and those cheesy Battlefield games?).

Edited July 2, 2021 by Phoraxin

[Savej]

Remember - it's not a paid expac if your subbed anyways.

 

They're completely changing the new character process and the endgame process. They're significantly changing what everyone can do with their characters. A raid is included (I don't raid but am happy for raiders). PVP is being changed.

Based on what we've heard and without using my imagination too much, this sounds like the biggest update since KotFE at least (which was well over 5 years ago at this point). But we still know very little - griping about what the expac isn't is very premature.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Savej

[OldVengeance]

I mean, there wasn't much to go out, but given what they talked about, it seemed to imply 7.0 would be smaller than Onslaught.

[fabsus]

just don't get hyped about stuff!

 

to be honest i had no expectations and also got dissapointed so damn much.

my first reaction, when i read the french leak was: "good bye swtor".

 

don't get me wrong. i really liked the way the new stuff was done, with all these

eastereggs, the bonus achievements, etc. i really have fun doing it. but my main

reason to play the game and to pay for my subscription is doing operations. and

here i get hard "gods-vibes" when it took years to complete the operation, with endless

delays in the past. this also was the reason, why i took a brake in the past and

the announcement reminds me on this.

 

i'm also dissapointed that they try to sell us improvements we asked for years and

are standard in other games, since years. like the loadouts. yes i would love to have them,

but this is not new stuff, this is just overdue.

also the combat styles sound a bit like a cheap workaround to get the weapons in the outfitter

with some stuff around it. but we will see how it works. i mean the tacticals they gave us,

are fun to have, even if the majority of tacticals are useless.

 

but what i really hate and could be the reason to deinstall the game again, is the new level cap.

personally i don't think that there is any justification for such a tiny dlc. you need to be a subscriber

to run the operations and with that actual ultra ****** gearing system, with no linear process, will

take weeks or months again, just to run the stuff we liked to play, again; plus one operation. and

i just think, that this is not worth it and it could be way better just to deinstall the game.

 

of course there will be many casual players who will like the endless gear grind for no reason and no need,

but if you need a certain gear score to do the stuff you like, this is just a pain.

[aeterno]

The fact that the premier advertised features are basically a respec feature and UI/qol improvements is deflating indeed.

 

But it is what it is. This game's hail mary large investment in an attempt to revitalize it came and went with kofe/kotet.

 

Once you accept that you're just happy that it's not completely in maintenance mode.

[Lium]

I skimmed through this whole thread hoping someone - anyone - pointed out to the OP that when they started comparing this new expansion to those old expansions, it is basically and apples to oranges comparison for the simple fact that those older expansions came out literally YEARS AGO, when this game had way, way, way more people working on it than they do now.

 

Like, I was seriously hoping someone mentioned that.

 

Nobody did. So, instead I'm going to mention it.

 

ROHTC and SOR came out literally YEARS AGO, when this game had way, way, way more people working on it than they do now.

 

Honestly, if you're a fan of this game, you should be happy that we are even getting an expansion at all, and that EA and BW still support this game. Period. If you were expecting ROHTC and SOR size expansions, then guess what? 2013 called. It wants its expectations back.

 

This community, man...

 

By the way, I'm super excited about this announcement and I can't wait to continue the stories of my characters!

Edited July 2, 2021 by Lium

[Tsillah]

You can ask that question about any of the expansions of SWTOR. They never had big expansions like in other MMOs. So why should this one be different. At least it's releasing with an Ops.

 

But the lack of explorable planets and BW doing main story lines via FPs instead is really something I hate.

[Drussy]

I skimmed through this whole thread hoping someone - anyone - pointed out to the OP that when they started comparing this new expansion to those old expansions, it is basically and apples to oranges comparison for the simple fact that those older expansions came out literally YEARS AGO, when this game had way, way, way more people working on it than they do now.

 

Like, I was seriously hoping someone mentioned that.

 

Nobody did. So, instead I'm going to mention it.

 

ROHTC and SOR came out literally YEARS AGO, when this game had way, way, way more people working on it than they do now.

 

Honestly, if you're a fan of this game, you should be happy that we are even getting an expansion at all, and that EA and BW still support this game. Period. If you were expecting ROHTC and SOR size expansions, then guess what? 2013 called. It wants its expectations back.

 

This community, man...

 

By the way, I'm super excited about this announcement and I can't wait to continue the stories of my characters!

 

I don't think you're right. This game is the only real star wars mmorpg. This is enough to keep it alive no matter what resources EA/BW assigns to develop it. And they obviously know it as we can see all the energy and ressources put into cartel market stuff, in opposite of loud content creation.

Why would they stop supporting a game that pay so much with no need of a big team working on.

I feel the content they add every 1.5 to 2 years is just enough, the right balance, to keep a nice part of players without spending too much.

[LeoAugustina]

They annouced something big and its not that is the problem.

[Alssaran]

They annouced something big and its not that is the problem.

 

I think "we're putting a semi reverse NGE into the game and will also update, tech, visuals and UI" is a big announcement considering the resources they have at the moment.

 

I strongly believe that with how spaghetti-coded the game was, detaching the advanced classes from their base class and turning the semi-WoW system into a FFXIV system was a very big development process, hence why Keith, Eric and Charles were so excited to finally announce it.

 

The ramifications of this new approach to advanced classes is also huge. I'm not saying it will happen, and I am also not claiming it is likely to happen, but combat styles opens the very distinct possibility of new advanced classes later down the line. One of the biggest issues with new classes has always been class stories, voice acting for an entirely new class and companions for it. With gameplay being removed from all three of those, the process of adding an advanced class is doable. They could finish the process in 7.0 and then for 8.0 add a new class or two for the first time in twelve years. For example, what about a non-force-using melee DPS like a Teräs Käsi fighter or a gladiator? They could use a quarterstaff/vibroblade and have melee combat like the Assassin/Guardian, but no force abilities. One of the things that always bugged me about making a melee Mandalorian with stuff like the Mythran hunter glaive is that they still shoot lightning or throw pebbles with the Force. If I could play a glaive wielder without any force abilities, I'd immediately do it.

 

Now, I'm not saying that will happen or is likely to happen, but a man can dream. All things considered, this was a huge announcement and certainly beats: "okay, two new flashpoints and two ops" from SoR out of the water for me.

[Vandicus]

I think "we're putting a semi reverse NGE into the game and will also update, tech, visuals and UI" is a big announcement considering the resources they have at the moment.

 

I strongly believe that with how spaghetti-coded the game was, detaching the advanced classes from their base class and turning the semi-WoW system into a FFXIV system was a very big development process, hence why Keith, Eric and Charles were so excited to finally announce it.

 

The ramifications of this new approach to advanced classes is also huge. I'm not saying it will happen, and I am also not claiming it is likely to happen, but combat styles opens the very distinct possibility of new advanced classes later down the line. One of the biggest issues with new classes has always been class stories, voice acting for an entirely new class and companions for it. With gameplay being removed from all three of those, the process of adding an advanced class is doable. They could finish the process in 7.0 and then for 8.0 add a new class or two for the first time in twelve years. For example, what about a non-force-using melee DPS like a Teräs Käsi fighter or a gladiator? They could use a quarterstaff/vibroblade and have melee combat like the Assassin/Guardian, but no force abilities. One of the things that always bugged me about making a melee Mandalorian with stuff like the Mythran hunter glaive is that they still shoot lightning or throw pebbles with the Force. If I could play a glaive wielder without any force abilities, I'd immediately do it.

 

Now, I'm not saying that will happen or is likely to happen, but a man can dream. All things considered, this was a huge announcement and certainly beats: "okay, two new flashpoints and two ops" from SoR out of the water for me.

 

That's a great point about this potentially making new combat/advanced classes a real possibility.

[arunav]

 

Honestly, if you're a fan of this game, you should be happy that we are even getting an expansion at all, and that EA and BW still support this game. Period.

 

EA still supports this game because it's profitable. It has been for almost a decade now, and has funded, indirectly, multiple BW projects, including ones that weren't even released, like Shadow Realms, and ones that were, like Anthem.

 

Anthem was a calculated risk on EA's part, but imagine how much content could have been made, and how revitalized SWTOR would have been, with a small fraction of the budget it took to make Anthem. More to the point for EA, this investment in SWTOR would have been way more profitable, both in the short and long run. This is with hindsight, of course, but it's worth pointing out.

 

My response to posts like the one you made is EA, and by extension BW, has the resources to do almost anything it wants with SWTOR. A larger investment in SWTOR to make an expansion with a better content cycle than recent years isn't a huge sacrifice for them. It brings back players, and keeps the ones that are still here, many of whom buy CM items and sometimes pay for subscriptions, particularly when there's new content worth paying for. In other words, it extends the life of the game, improves it, and keeps it profitable.

 

Instead, EA seems to limit funding to nearly the bare minimum to probably keep SWTOR profitable, and will be fine to shut it down when it's not. If you're a fan of this game, I'm not sure why you prefer the latter approach.

Edited July 8, 2021 by arunav