Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[bvalley]

Has BW said anything about this yet ? this is the secong huge thread and cant look through it all sorry

 

3rd thread, and the OP has put Bioware responses in OP...

[Inseh]

Its Warhammer all over again.

[boobaffet]

The game is broken and you are wrong.

 

Heres a video of a jedi knight having the issue.

 

 

This is the same issue I was having when I started posting in threads like this back around the 23rd. I shelved my sentinel thats 21 because of it.

 

The problem is this thread is basically talking about multiple issues. I dont really have a lot of ability lag. But I do have the same issue that the player that made this video is having when I use abilities off the GCD. Its not class specific, I have leveled four characters to the 20s and they all experience this issue with abilities off the GCD.

 

My question is why do people not having an issue always come in this thread trying to derail it, basically just starting arguments when the thread has multiple documented videos of the issues people are having and the lead designer actually posted in the thread and admitted its an issue being looked into?

 

If you arent having the issue, fine go play the game. Stop trying to undermine those of us that would like to see a fix for this, because to a lot of people it is game-breaking (I mostly play healers and tanks. Between this bug and the raid frames not working properly the game kinda is basically broken for these two aspects, yes its playable but its not fun and we know it shouldnt be that way)

 

You wont have to worry though because if its not fixed most of the people you are arguing with here by defending the broken aspects of the game wont be here in a couple months.

 

As you said, this thread is covering multiple issue. When im defending the game i am not saying that those issue( like the one in your video ) does not exist or are not important. What i am saying is that those issue are specific and have nothing to do with the core combat mechanic.

 

The dev themselves said that the issue we see in this thread are a bunch of different issue. This thread is basicly covering problem with riposte(possibly every offensive off gcd ability), bug with cover, mount casting bar too short for the time it takes, ability travel time and a lot of other thing. Most of those video have nothing to do with ability delay.

 

As for the highlighted part,

a video of an offgcd ability firing properly.

Note that this ability is a buff and not an offensive ability, so that might be why it work in this case and not in yours.

Edited December 31, 2011 by boobaffet

[boobaffet]

Once your off-gcd abilities start clipping into your gcds you'll realize just how much of this is pure aestethics ...

 

By this specific issue i meant : Animation that take time starting to be on par with their mirror ability.

 

The fact that your offgcd ability does not fire properly have nothing to do with this.

[asbalana]

 

My question is why do people not having an issue always come in this thread trying to derail it, basically just starting arguments when the thread has multiple documented videos of the issues people are having and the lead designer actually posted in the thread and admitted its an issue being looked into?

 

If you arent having the issue, fine go play the game. Stop trying to undermine those of us that would like to see a fix for this, because to a lot of people it is game-breaking (I mostly play healers and tanks. Between this bug and the raid frames not working properly the game kinda is basically broken for these two aspects, yes its playable but its not fun and we know it shouldnt be that way)

 

You wont have to worry though because if its not fixed most of the people you are arguing with here by defending the broken aspects of the game wont be here in a couple months.

 

I must agree with you. I am experiencing the issues described and no one is going to tell me that I am not. I read the posts of the two people who were arguing that there are no problems and as a result dismiss them and have them on mental ignore / not worthy of response. Whether or not the few people who come onto this thread and try to derail it are being honest or not or are just not seeing the issues for whatever reason does not make a differencce. I see it as do the many others who have posted on this thread.

 

To me the issues exist and indeed makes the wonderful game much less that it could be. One can argue that opinion does not imply truth and I would agree. But opinion can sway events and cause outcomes. A problem exists if enough people think that a problem exists. So there is no reason to respond to the very few people who are saying that they do not see a problem or are demanding, suitable to them, proof. The problems exist without doubt in my mind, but even if they did not a strong impression that they do in many minds must be addressed.

 

In the end, the people who are trying to derail this thread are doing other players a disservice. They are doing BW a disservice. The issues or perceptions thereof can severely hurt this game in lost subs which will diminish the community and cost BW revenue and hence affect the growth of the game in the long run. If someone is not experiencing the issues under discussion they should indeed post and say so. It is another piece of the puzzle and the differences between their enviornment and game play with others who are being affected could be important. But they should not argue with or try to debunk other sincere players.

Edited December 31, 2011 by asbalana

[Xcore]

As you said, this thread is covering multiple issue. When im defending the game i am not saying that those issue( like the one in your video ) does not exist or are not important. What i am saying is that those issue are specific and have nothing to do with the core combat mechanic.

 

The dev themselves said that the issue we see in this thread are a bunch of different issue. This thread is basicly covering problem with riposte(possibly every offensive off gcd ability), bug with cover, mount casting bar too short for the time it takes, ability travel time and a lot of other thing. Most of those video have nothing to do with ability delay.

 

As for the highlighted part,

a video of an offgcd ability firing properly.

Note that this ability is a buff and not an offensive ability, so that might be why it work in this case and not in yours.

 

The thing you don't understand is that

 

1) All the examples like "Riposte issue", "Mount Issue", "Bolts -> Granade Issue", "Trinket -> Cover -> Knockback Issue" all are the same problem or derived from the same problem. There is a reason WoW has "NONE" of these and SW:TOR has "ALL" of these. The reason being that these are multiple issues coming from the core combat design/coding w/e.

 

2) Just because "YOU" cannot experience/see/recreate/understand what people are going on about here, that DOES NOT mean in any way, shape or form that the discussed issues are incorrect or non-existant. You need to get this out of your head that you are "right", I am sorry to say it so simply and bluntly.

 

There may be a number of factors as to why you cannot see/experience/recreate the discussed issues. Possibly you're slower, your reaction time is slower, you're a contrarian, you're blinded by the love or hatred for one company/game/type of player etc. These are all valid possibilities.

 

 

We've had a Professional Gamer analyze it and identify it, we've had casual gamers analyze it and identify it, we've had people who didn't know it existed see this thread and understand it. I urge you to reconsider your position for the sake of this game. Currently what you and others who are "still" somehow arguing against these facts are doing is confusing those who don't fully understand this subject.

 

After the staggering amount of support this has garnered over three threads, there is a problem and realizing that this is an over-arching problem that ALL players share (only some perceive better than others) and ALL abilities are affected by (only some showcase and others are fine) is the first step to solving it.

 

 

Once again, I point out -- you can only list "specific" examples and "videos" to prove there "is" an issue. However, the issue is not persistent to those abilities only -- Its a Core Combat Design issue, every ability (even the ones that work perfectly) share the same problem, its just "masked" naturally due to the animation/effect w/e etc.

[boobaffet]

I must agree with you. I am experiencing the issues described and no one is going to tell me that I am not. I read the posts of the two people who were arguing that there are no problems and as a result dismiss them and have them on mental ignore / not worthy of response. Whether or not the few people who come onto this thread and try to derail it are being honest or not or are just not seeing the issues for whatever reason does not make a differencce. I see it as do the many others who have posted on this thread.

 

To me the issues exist and indeed makes the wonderful game much less that it could be. One can argue that opinion does not imply truth and I would agree. But opinion can sway events and cause outcomes. A problem exists if enough people think that a problem exists. So there is no reason to respond to the very few people who are saying that they do not see a problem or are demanding, suitable to them, proof. The problems exist without doubt in my mind, but even if they did not a strong impression that they do in many minds must be addressed.

 

In the end, the people who are trying to derail this thread are doing other players a disservice. They are doing BW a disservice. The issues or perceptions thereof can severely hurt this game in lost subs which will diminish the community and cost BW revenue and hence affect the growth of the game in the long run. If someone is not experiencing the issues under discussion they should indeed post and say so. It is another piece of the puzzle and the differences between their enviornment and game play with others who are being affected could be important. But they should not argue with or try to debunk other sincere players.

 

I am not arguing against anyone or trying to convince anyone that there is no issue.

 

But i am trying to prove wrong some false claim, like that one that says animation have priority over ability. It might even happen in some specific case, but i have not experienced that. In fact i experienced(and recorded) the opposite.

 

Problem with this thread is its covering so many issue and seems to confound a lot of people. Most of these video have nothing to do with ability delay at all. Im pretty sure if we were to ask everyone to write what they think this thread is about we would have a lot different answer.

 

Anyway i wish you luck with your issue, whatever is the issue your having!

[Nikita_Kilemal]

After reading some of the posts claiming nothing wrong an old saying comes to mind, "cut the nose to spite the face."

 

Also bumpity time and for people who keep saying they want more proof but obviously aren't reading the thread.

 

http://imageshack.us/g/856/eyju.mp4/

 

Relink from my post back on page 28, I'm not retyping all the crap either so you'll have to go back there to read the recaps. I'll just single out vid 4 and 6 as the prime offenders, anyone who thinks animations don't override ability, just watch how long I stay in unloads animation after the channel ends, and the second of lagtime before rocket blast click to activation. Or the way I just stand there with a sword in my face waaaaaiting nearly a full second and a half for my 'instant' to fire off.

 

Ability delay is an issue, if you're too blind to see it then sorry there's no helping you. But have fun defending a broken system while we're trying to get bioware to fix it. You know long term health of a game and all.

[samdbtto]

bump to keep it to top

[BladeStrike]

As a healer this is just terrible.

[boobaffet]

The thing you don't understand is that

 

1) All the examples like "Riposte issue", "Mount Issue", "Bolts -> Granade Issue", "Trinket -> Cover -> Knockback Issue" all are the same problem or derived from the same problem. There is a reason WoW has "NONE" of these and SW:TOR has "ALL" of these. The reason being that these are multiple issues coming from the core combat design/coding w/e.

Im sorry but i fail to see how all these thing are linked. Maybe you could explain?

Also what is annoying me with that mount bug is people seems to use that example to ''prove'' that you have to see the animation before the ability actually fire and this is plain wrong. Try it with any casted ability : once the bar turn white(glow) you can move and cast that ability

 

2) Just because "YOU" cannot experience/see/recreate/understand what people are going on about here, that DOES NOT mean in any way, shape or form that the discussed issues are incorrect or non-existant. You need to get this out of your head that you are "right", I am sorry to say it so simply and bluntly.

People are going on about a lot of different thing here. Most of these video have nothing to do with ability delay. Dont assume i claimed anything other than ability>animation pretty much.

 

There may be a number of factors as to why you cannot see/experience/recreate the discussed issues. Possibly you're slower, your reaction time is slower, you're a contrarian, you're blinded by the love or hatred for one company/game/type of player etc. These are all valid possibilities.

 

 

We've had a Professional Gamer analyze it and identify it, we've had casual gamers analyze it and identify it, we've had people who didn't know it existed see this thread and understand it. I urge you to reconsider your position for the sake of this game. Currently what you and others who are "still" somehow arguing against these facts are doing is confusing those who don't fully understand this subject.

 

After the staggering amount of support this has garnered over three threads, there is a problem and realizing that this is an over-arching problem that ALL players share (only some perceive better than others) and ALL abilities are affected by (only some showcase and others are fine) is the first step to solving it.

So please enlight me and tell me what is the problem that all ability share and that all player share? Cause yes i have not experienced any serious problem with combat mechanic and no i dont have slow reaction time etc.

 

Once again, I point out -- you can only list "specific" examples and "videos" to prove there "is" an issue. However, the issue is not persistent to those abilities only -- Its a Core Combat Design issue, every ability (even the ones that work perfectly) share the same problem, its just "masked" naturally due to the animation/effect w/e etc.

yellow

[Xcore]

yellow

 

look at

if this doesn't make you see just "one" case of the entire issue then there isn't much anyone can say to you. If this video does not show you the flaw in the combat design then I am not sure there is any proof you'll accept...

 

I should say that you completely strike me as the Creationist arguing against evolution, in essence you are asking to show you the "missing link" when there is no "one missing link" but a line of links clearly on display etc.

 

As with the above analogy, the problem isn't that its not there, it is that you are completely incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.

 

 

I rather like the creationism/evolution analogy because it is exactly he same... in every single way.

[AlexRose]

 

 

Pretty similar?

 

No. Not just for me, for the sake of comparing the same thing and for being objective.

 

Now. Tell me something because I am a little baffled here. Why is the mob dead before you cast your instant 0:02? Gray text, no health. Another UI glich?

 

As OP pointed to you, there is a core issue that when all this "glitches" are combined together the combat become sluggish and unresponsive.

 

Another example that jsut happened: My unload ability cast bar is showing as if it is firing but in reality nothing happens. The gun is dead and soon my toon too

[SarahR]

I have run into this issue and it is incredibly frustrating.

 

If you sit still and just keep casting Dark Infusion, you'll easily see there is a 0.5-0.8 second delay after the casting has finished, for the heal to even hit the target. Every single ability suffers from this, but it may not be as noticeable with instant casts if you aren't looking for it. Healing under duress is infuriating and requires player compensation to make up for an inherent game design flaw.

[Xcore]

I have run into this issue and it is incredibly frustrating.

 

If you sit still and just keep casting Dark Infusion, you'll easily see there is a 0.5-0.8 second delay after the casting has finished, for the heal to even hit the target. Every single ability suffers from this, but it may not be as noticeable with instant casts if you aren't looking for it. Healing under duress is infuriating and requires player compensation to make up for an inherent game design flaw.

 

Healers suffer most noticeably from this, my fiancee plays a Consular Sage and is incredibly annoyed by this to the point that shes already out the door back to the Paladin and Priest in WoW.

 

I feel the need to point out because you make a very good point -- If healers are affected by this very negatively, as such you cannot create "tightly" tuned hard content in endgame PvE where every .3-.5 seconds of a 10 minute fight can spell doom because 1 heal is delayed.

 

This would be sad, this is a snowballing issue, it is the core, the foundation, the beginning but what follows is ez-mode, un-imaginative, *****y and frustrating endgame... PvP and PvE.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Xcore

[boobaffet]

After reading some of the posts claiming nothing wrong an old saying comes to mind, "cut the nose to spite the face."

 

Also bumpity time and for people who keep saying they want more proof but obviously aren't reading the thread.

 

http://imageshack.us/g/856/eyju.mp4/

 

Relink from my post back on page 28, I'm not retyping all the crap either so you'll have to go back there to read the recaps. I'll just single out vid 4 and 6 as the prime offenders, anyone who thinks animations don't override ability, just watch how long I stay in unloads animation after the channel ends, and the second of lagtime before rocket blast click to activation. Or the way I just stand there with a sword in my face waaaaaiting nearly a full second and a half for my 'instant' to fire off.

 

Ability delay is an issue, if you're too blind to see it then sorry there's no helping you. But have fun defending a broken system while we're trying to get bioware to fix it. You know long term health of a game and all.

 

Im glad to finally see a video that is related to the ability delay.

It still ressemble very much when i had my graphic on high, turned them on low and i dont have this issue anymore.

 

This is also the first video i see that shows ability not firing properly even after gcd is over.

Im also glad its a bounty hunter in your video since i have one level 9, and i must say it looks nothing like it.

 

In my experience :

and i can cast a spell every gcd.

So the flamers can call me fanboy, too blind to notice or whatever they want, fact is i am not having the issue the poster i quoted is having.

 

Anyway good luck with this issue being resolved, but know its not the case for every one.

[asbalana]

After reading some of the posts claiming nothing wrong an old saying comes to mind, "cut the nose to spite the face."

 

Also bumpity time and for people who keep saying they want more proof but obviously aren't reading the thread.

 

http://imageshack.us/g/856/eyju.mp4/

 

Relink from my post back on page 28, I'm not retyping all the crap either so you'll have to go back there to read the recaps. I'll just single out vid 4 and 6 as the prime offenders, anyone who thinks animations don't override ability, just watch how long I stay in unloads animation after the channel ends, and the second of lagtime before rocket blast click to activation. Or the way I just stand there with a sword in my face waaaaaiting nearly a full second and a half for my 'instant' to fire off.

 

Ability delay is an issue, if you're too blind to see it then sorry there's no helping you. But have fun defending a broken system while we're trying to get bioware to fix it. You know long term health of a game and all.

 

LOL, I read the post and thought it was top notch. I guess others did not bother to read it.

 

Just playing the game is enough for me. I know that I can hit casts off of cool down and not have them go off. I know that I can hit instants and not have them fire for a half to a full second later. I know that I can kill a boss with a good deal of health left and then suddenly die a second later and have no dots on me when I do. I know that I can cast and not have the annimation start for a half second and then be locked out of my next cast even though the gcd is done and the ability bars are lit. I know that I have started to slow down and pause during combat to let the system catch up to me. I know, sorry for saying this, after combat in WOW the swtor combat feels really disfunctional and broken.

 

What Xcore and you and others like you do is give words and insights to what a player like me knows and feels. It is much appreciated.

 

To the naysayers, yes I have a top notch i7 950 gaming rig with 12G of fast ram, all my drivers are up to date and my internet is blazing fast.

[Reedful]

Whoever said the mount bug didn't prove anything:

 

Casted spells work the exact same way, as do instant ranged attacks. Say you replaced the mounting spell with a healing one. Say you casted a 1.5 second heal and ran as soon as the bar was complete. You'd get the same result, or something equally buggy, or the instant cast you tried to cast afterwards might not even work.

 

This is basic stuff. The fact that so many people are trying to defend this issue just goes to show how awful most MMO players are.

 

It would be like if you wanted to make a website, a really really cool website, and you wanted it to be the best website ever. Except a lot of the buttons just didn't work. Would that be a cool feature just because you liked the lay out of the website? No.

 

It's the same thing. They just didn't code it, because the people who made this game also suck at video games.

[Xcore]

Edit... you quoted another Edited December 31, 2011 by Xcore

[boobaffet]

No. Not just for me, for the sake of comparing the same thing and for being objective.

 

Now. Tell me something because I am a little baffled here. Why is the mob dead before you cast your instant 0:02? Gray text, no health. Another UI glich?

 

As OP pointed to you, there is a core issue that when all this "glitches" are combined together the combat become sluggish and unresponsive.

 

Another example that jsut happened: My unload ability cast bar is showing as if it is firing but in reality nothing happens. The gun is dead and soon my toon too

 

My instant is what killed the mob.... you think like its my spell that i cancelled that killed the mob? Cause its not.

[SarahR]

Im glad to finally see a video that is related to the ability delay.

It still ressemble very much when i had my graphic on high, turned them on low and i dont have this issue anymore.

 

This is also the first video i see that shows ability not firing properly even after gcd is over.

Im also glad its a bounty hunter in your video since i have one level 9, and i must say it looks nothing like it.

 

In my experience :

and i can cast a spell every gcd.

So the flamers can call me fanboy, too blind to notice or whatever they want, fact is i am not having the issue the poster i quoted is having.

 

Anyway good luck with this issue being resolved, but know its not the case for every one.

 

I would like to ask you to post a video of yourself casting Dark Infusion on yourself (or someone else) over and over, as quickly as possible, over a 20 second period. You will most definitely see the issue, from a healing perspective as a sorcerer.

[Xcore]

Whoever said the mount bug didn't prove anything:

 

Casted spells work the exact same way, as do instant ranged attacks. Say you replaced the mounting spell with a healing one. Say you casted a 1.5 second heal and ran as soon as the bar was complete. You'd get the same result, or something equally buggy, or the instant cast you tried to cast afterwards might not even work.

 

This is basic stuff. The fact that so many people are trying to defend this issue just goes to show how awful most MMO players are.

 

It would be like if you wanted to make a website, a really really cool website, and you wanted it to be the best website ever. Except a lot of the buttons just didn't work. Would that be a cool feature just because you liked the lay out of the website? No.

 

It's the same thing. They just didn't code it, because the people who made this game also suck at video games.

 

This entire post is incredibly accurate... "every, single, part"... I don't care if it sounds harsh, truth hurts and truth is the only thing that matters.

[boobaffet]

look at

if this doesn't make you see just "one" case of the entire issue then there isn't much anyone can say to you. If this video does not show you the flaw in the combat design then I am not sure there is any proof you'll accept...

 

I should say that you completely strike me as the Creationist arguing against evolution, in essence you are asking to show you the "missing link" when there is no "one missing link" but a line of links clearly on display etc.

 

As with the above analogy, the problem isn't that its not there, it is that you are completely incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.

 

 

I rather like the creationism/evolution analogy because it is exactly he same... in every single way.

 

Listen, it does not show me the flaw in the combat design because i am not experiencing it ! How hard is it to understand. You can tell yourself im not good enough to notice it when i play, doesnt change the fact that it does not happen when i play.

You want me to to make a freakin scoundrel and do those exact same move to show you it does not happen when i play?

 

Since when i show you an instance of ability having priority over animation now its just '' that particular ability that is not bugged''. Do i really have to make a scoundrel and do those ability to prove you that it does not happen with me?

 

Your crazy analogy aside, you are actually the one trying to convince me of what im seeing in my game.

[nilssen]

I am not arguing against anyone or trying to convince anyone that there is no issue.

 

But i am trying to prove wrong some false claim, like that one that says animation have priority over ability. It might even happen in some specific case, but i have not experienced that. In fact i experienced(and recorded) the opposite.

 

Problem with this thread is its covering so many issue and seems to confound a lot of people. Most of these video have nothing to do with ability delay at all. Im pretty sure if we were to ask everyone to write what they think this thread is about we would have a lot different answer.

 

Anyway i wish you luck with your issue, whatever is the issue your having!

 

My main is a mercenary, and since I mainly use ranged abilities I'm having a blast. But ever since my server got hit with a 1h+ queue, I've rerolled a marauder on another server, and let me tell you, I'm at 17 now and I'm struggling to even log on to the character to play. The issue is identical to what WAR had. If you spam buttons you'll notice animations clipping and if you hit Ravage (channelling melee animation) twice you'll end up doing the animation but without doing any damage. It's horrible.

[Xcore]

Listen, it does not show me the flaw in the combat design because i am not experiencing it ! How hard is it to understand. You can tell yourself im not good enough to notice it when i play, doesnt change the fact that it does not happen when i play.

You want me to to make a freakin scoundrel and do those exact same move to show you it does not happen when i play?

 

Since when i show you an instance of ability having priority over animation now its just '' that particular ability that is not bugged''. Do i really have to make a scoundrel and do those ability to prove you that it does not happen with me?

 

Your crazy analogy aside, you are actually the one trying to convince me of what im seeing in my game.

 

Yes I want you to recreate the video showing the grenade being thrown as soon as you press your key not when the bolts stop flying...

 

Do it.