Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Corwingeorge]

[Zakumene]

Did you fail to notice that none of the Kolto Injections after the first 2 actually healed him? The cast bar completed, no heal landed.

 

So what you're saying is that there is a pop-up text error? Since he's full health how can you know if the heal landed or not or its a visual text error?

[Xcore]

Is that a joke? You can see that you AREN'T even pushing a button to activate the ability until a full second after the last one landed. The icon would flash if you were spamming it....

 

You're beyond hope, I will not dignify you with another response... absolutely incredible how dense you are. You should just be greatful for all the people trying to make the game a greater success for you and your enjoyment.

 

Before you reply "hurr durr, I'm enjoying it already" -- You'll be enjoying it a lot more when it has 10+ million subs because its not broken.

[Meste]

So what you're saying is that there is a pop-up text error? Since he's full health how can you know if the heal landed or not or its a visual text error?

 

He was full the whole time, floating combat text tells you when the heal goes off. Also, after the second or so Kolto injection, the ANIMATION stopped happening even after the cast finished. Focus.

[Zironic]

So what you're saying is that there is a pop-up text error? Since he's full health how can you know if the heal landed or not or its a visual text error?

 

/facepalm

I think we can safely disregard this dude.

[jtype_sw]

So what you're saying is that there is a pop-up text error? Since he's full health how can you know if the heal landed or not or its a visual text error?

 

Now you're just trying too hard and clearly giving yourself away my friend

If you want to learn the art of trolling, you need to learn to be subtle and discrete ^^

 

Anyways, hopefully the problems get addressed soon Xcore and thanks for adding my video!

Edited December 30, 2011 by jtype_sw

[Randkin]

Seriously. The troll will die from hunger if you'd just ignore it.

[jcwagne]

I must say, I am actually personally torn on this issue. On one hand, as a player I'm loving this game so far. But, I find it quite frustrating and infuriating at times when my IA stands up to snipe, then casually sits back down after doing nothing, yet still aggro the mobs. Or when I cast the same heal 3 times on my inquisitor before it starts the animation, only to see a party member die because the heal never fires. And that's just a couple of painful examples. Xcore and many others have done a great job of explaining the issue with concrete examples, and while it clearly is not causing big problems for a lot of folks, it is a significant problem for many and I desperately hope this gets resolved soon.

 

I also agree that more communication would be nice, but as a programmer who used to work at a company where I would often monitor the forums, I understand the reluctance on BW's part to chime in too much due to the backlash this often causes within the community at large, especially on a thread with such an angry tone from some repeat posters. This can be seen to some degree in this thread already from the countless posts in the previous two threads about how people just "wanted them to acknowledge that there was an issue and they are working on it", which then became, in some cases, "that's not enough, you can't just acknowledge it is broken, when is it going to be fixed?" So while I do not like silence, I at least understand it to some degree.

 

I too want this resolved as soon as they have a solid solution, but do not want them to rush something out the door just to satisfy the mob. I also know that throwing more developers at a problem does not lead to a faster solution, it is a matter of getting the RIGHT developers on the issue that leads to a fast, stable solution. While I am in no way a BW fanboi or a card carrying member of the BDF , I am optimistic that this will not kill the game and hope we see this issue addressed in an update on the test servers soon.

[Corwingeorge]

he is right, it could be a visual txt error. but most people have had this happen to them already and know that it isnt.

[JesterXL]

I sincerely hope this issue gets resolved. I am a long time World of Warcraft player, and every MMO I have tried since seems to have this issue (Age of Conan and Rift mostly), and it is by far my favorite aspect of World of Warcraft. Having fluid combat and game play mechanics should always be the foundation upon which the rest of the game is built.

[freddiez]

Here Zak I'll help you with your response: Oh well that's only one video showing a bug that's happening to that one player. It doesn't mean it's broken for me. I'll make a video to show you that it works perfectly. I mean look at the animation. So purtty. I mean just look at it! Stop mashing the buttons and just sit back and enjoy the super fluid gameplay. Bioware, I love you...

[Unseenhands]

-- You'll be enjoying it a lot more when it has 10+ million subs because its not broken.

 

This is right - and points to the biggest problem I have with a large part of those trying to suggest it doesn't happen at all. If you already like it, who cares?

 

For ALL of us though, if they tighten it up, it's better. I hope that no one is like "Man, I hope combat gets...slower" or something.

 

Game is good, great fun. I have noticed this issue and hope it gets better, but don't think it's gamebreaking for me (meaning I think I like the game enough to keep playing DESPITE it, not ignoring it)

 

BUT, tighter, faster, more responsive helps everyone and turns the game from very good to excellent, and that's a good thing! Why would people not want that?

 

Edit: I'm agreeing with Xcore here; fixed to reflect that.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Unseenhands

[Ndru]

Ability delay is important, but for a global cooldown game you really need to be able to Queue your next ability as well...

[Isende]

to all who say this thread has already served its purpose, let me give you one outstanding reason to keep it on page 1: we STILL have folk coming in saying something along the lines of "zomg thank you so much i thought this was me now i know it's not!"

 

it at the VERY least words for a problem we had no words to describe.

[DubsPro]

I support this endeavour and think that looking into this matter can only benefit an already great game.

[Owarida]

I managed to record 2 of the problems in a single-mob fight.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX3VYtZGhE

(Please excuse video quality. Just push 480p button on video. You can see what happens pretty easily )

 

 

1. I roll into Natural Cover(Shift + F)

2. Begin casting Ambush

3. Something makes Ambush stop firing and causes it to be 'Cancelled'(castbar stops)

4. Cast Ambush again

5. GCD finishes

6. Castbar for Ambush finishes

7. Begin to cast Snipe

8. Snipe castbar is cancelled very quickly from Ambush animation

 

Xcorp, feel free to use in your OP should you choose.

 

edit: spelling

Edited December 30, 2011 by Owarida

[Lmaonade]

i've canceled my subscription. i ll resubscribe if the issue is fixed by the end of the month.

[Unseenhands]

I managed to record 2 of the problems in a single-mob fight.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX3VYtZGhE

(Please excuse video quality. Just push 480p button on video. You can see what happens pretty easily )

 

 

Nice video - the biggest offender I've personally experienced is the IA and Snipe - I can't chain cast it for the life of me.

 

Cast bar finishes, I should be able to start casting the next, but the animation prevents it.

[TheHirogen]

I support fixing this, willit break the game? not for me, but if encounters get harder and it is not fixed then yeah. Please fix it,in themeantime I will play it.

[Xcore]

I managed to record 2 of the problems in a single-mob fight.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTX3VYtZGhE

(Please excuse video quality. Just push 480p button on video. You can see what happens pretty easily )

 

 

1. I roll into Natural Cover(Shift + F)

2. Begin casting Ambush

3. Something makes Ambush stop firing and causes it to be 'Cancelled'(castbar stops)

4. Cast Ambush again

5. GCD finishes

6. Castbar for Ambush finishes

7. Begin to cast Snipe

8. Snipe castbar is cancelled very quickly from Ambush animation

 

Xcorp, feel free to use in your OP should you choose.

 

edit: spelling

 

Yes it displays another flaw the random cancellation as well as delay in everything...

[xREESEx]

I canceled my subscription. I'm glad I found this thread though. At least I know others care about this as much as I do.

[Randkin]

BUT, tighter, faster, more responsive helps everyone and turns the game from very good to excellent, and that's a good thing! Why would people not want that?

 

Edit: I'm agreeing with Xcore here; fixed to reflect that.

 

Because they're not capable of handling it. They're the same people who came here from WoW and left it primarily because of how responsive and fluid it was-- they weren't able to keep up and were informed that they were bad players. Butthurt ensued, and here we stand today defending the slower responses so as to level the playing field with people that can't keep up. THAT is why they want that.

[Arkimor]

Great job with the new OP, Xcore.

 

Again we've proven that this exists, without question or shadow of doubt, so now it's just a waiting game to see if Bioware fixes it, however I know a lot of people (myself included) are not interested in paying for a waiting game and will only give Bioware so long before we pack up and leave. It's not trolling or threatening, it's just the truth.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Arkimor

[Zakumene]

Here Zak I'll help you with your response: Oh well that's only one video showing a bug that's happening to that one player. It doesn't mean it's broken for me. I'll make a video to show you that it works perfectly. I mean look at the animation. So purtty. I mean just look at it! Stop mashing the buttons and just sit back and enjoy the super fluid gameplay. Bioware, I love you...

 

I have a valid counter point. Show me the healing bug when he's not at full health to show its NOT healing him.

[Nikita_Kilemal]

Two little side notes/rant before i get to the point.

 

Xcore you my hero for being one of the view people left it seems who understand something that EVERY next gen console dev and fan needs to have beat into them.

 

Good graphics and shiny features and "innovative" whatevers mean NOTHING if the gameplay is utter crap. Does anyone remember chrono trigger? Secret of mana? Illusion of Gaia? The phantasy star series? Any FF game before 7 and the downward slide?

 

16 bit rpgs lacked the shiny but they had the gameplay, they had the heart (specially ps4 in my opinion, i will go full on fanboy for that one) And they didn't need to try and be all pretty and epic overarching with crap like FF10 (best dvd movie I ever played) Or the very pretty but insanely linear JOKE that 13 was.

 

But we're talking responsive too, so hey why not remember a few other classics like UN squadron, axelay (anyone who remembers that game besides me i love you!) or heck the entire sonic series along side our bud mario. Trying to play any platformer with the ability delay we've got now? Ugh, no thanks.

 

And this is one thing that drives me bonkers about games these days but TOR in particular right now, after that fangasm opening video....it just turns to goo. I look at it, then I look at skyrim, which while buggy yes has some of the best combat I've seen in a next gen rpg up to now. And why? the controls are tight as can be, and I don't mind hearing the same VA or phrase for every other nord because the gameplay is just that damn good.

 

And #2 I hate youtube. I tried to upload vids there but their idiotic redo of the site decided to think my 412 meg fraps vid that i compressed down to 12 megs with virtualdub and the xvid codec was still 412. So I had to settle for imageshack instead, if this is gonna cause problems, let me know I'll try to find a way to repost these vids, or heck make a zip and put it on rapidshare for people.

 

http://imageshack.us/g/856/eyju.mp4/

 

Some notes about the vids too, oh and no buttons were mashed in the production of these, so please stop trying to tell us that's the issue ok? Also some behind the scene tidbits that are hard to see without being able to frame advance the way vdub does.

 

and yes video editing is a hobby =p

 

Vid #1

 

Went fairly smooth combat wise, joy of virtual dub is you can frame advance it one at a time. And there's only a 7 frame skip between most of the attacks. Though that final rocket blast was about 14, going at 30fps thats the .5 a lot of us are seeing?

 

Vid #2

 

Two things noticed. The first being that even though I hit rocket blast once (yes my mashy friends just one single time) as unloads channel hit zero, i'm still stuck in 14 frames of animation before i see the heat gain and the start of the blast animation. That and something you can catch in a couple other vids, the enforcer takes the damage a good 21 frames before you see an explosion and flytext, just enough time to catch with the eye if you're looking for it.

 

Vid #3

 

Call it a desync issue maybe, or the server trying to make things match up, but unload's channel in the space of one frame jumps from 2.2 to 1.6. Not the only vid this occurs in either. Also noticed one other oddity involving burn ticks from superheated plasma. The effect actually applies on ability activation, not animation. Second I hit my basic attack the burn debuff appeared one frame later. Is that a working as intended?

 

Vid #4

 

Bigger offender once I came inside the palace. Three things to highlight.

 

Unload channel jumps again from .7 to .1

 

Watch the npc's powershot charge bar. I actually take the damage from the attack halfway through it's charge, the bolt hitting me with flytext right as his charge ends. Shouldn't this be ability charges, then fires, then take damage? Or do we need to "adapt" to interrupting npcs a bit early? [/snark]

 

After unloads channel ends I'm still locked into the animation for 57 frames. 34 of those are me waiting for rocket blast to fire after the GCD tells me its ready.

 

Vid #5

 

Didn't even try to make this occur but you have to love it. Unload takes so long to activate after I click it that the guard explodes and dies. Then I get the target is dead message as the channel counts down anyway.

 

Also watch the rocket blast near the start then the blaster flurry at the end, both were over 30 frames of wait before I saw any heat gain or activation.

 

Vid #6

 

Watch for three things, the first is how long I just stand there with a sword in my face as I try to rocket the guy in the back. that's FORTY SEVEN frames of wait. Rocket blast was fully ready on the GCD again before the first even fired! That was a serious ***.

 

Again another near second of lag between activate dart, see dart latch to sword boy.

 

And another 30 frames of wait between rocket blast activation and fire. Long enough for both blasts to go off at the same time as I finally decide to fire it.

 

Vid #7

 

Here's where I in the spirit of honesty post a vid where things actually didn't seem to lag much at all. Dart and rocket were tight, though unload does another .6 channel jump. It seemed similar to my fights outside where there was only a small delay at best. that slight half second clunky feel?

 

Vid #8

 

again the combat here seemed a lot more responsive then previous vids, rocket blast actually hit before explosive dart goes off for starters. One other odd thing to note, if you watch I get the hp gain right as I click the medpack, the flytext is 20 frames later. Faster then the issues others are still having with cast heals?

 

Vid #9

 

Another example of taking damage from powershot before it finishes charging. the second powershot however seems almost synced.

 

Vid #10

 

The one big thing here is the jump with unload again, i'm sitting on my duff till the channel jumps and I finally decide to start firing. 27 frames later.

 

There's another 30 frame wait too before rocket blast feels like firing after.

 

Vid #11

 

Hard to see without a frame advance, but at the very moment where it tries to tell me target not vulnerable. The fathra guard is still flat on his back and rail shot is lit up on my hotbar. Yet another desync?

 

Vid #12

 

Just kinda a giggle vid. If you watch the guard is taking damage a good .5 before the rocket actually hits him. Not really clunky combat, but certainly does seem to fit in with the theme of things not meshing properly.

 

Anyway there ya go, and again I'm voicing my support for this thread and calling it the number one issue holding TOR back, or deciding if I'm still playing after a couple months of playing.

 

I'll end it how I started it, and Bioware if nothing else, please learn this from 3 threads worth of posts. GAMEPLAY > EVERYTHING!