Can we get an up-to-date BW/EA statement on macros?

[chucique]

^THIS

 

As someone who, during the first iteration of Conquest with the "crafting weeks" crafted my way through conquest on multiple toons, it is simply not a good time/reward investment anymore.

The amount of raw resources that need to go into the "sub components" made by three different crafting skills, only to combine THOSE 5 items into the invasion force...

 

I'd be more interested in knowing how any player got multiple stacks of 10k mats to burn through doing it than HOW they're doing it.

 

Especially if you think someone's doing it every week.

 

Also, if they're doing it with Grade 1 combines, which would be the only thing that would make sense, and if they're using the GTN or farming friends at all to bolster their materials, there would be a ton of people farming those mats on Coruscant and DK, and in my experience this is simply not happening. I can't even remember getting scooped ONCE by a different player on a harvest node on either of those two planets in months.

 

Also, every now and then I end up with a character with 42-45k conquest and rather than doing a 5k once a day objective, decide to finish that out through harvesting and crafting. Harvesting goes *way* faster when I do that. I once got a guy to 16k conquest in about 30 minutes just farming mats on Onderon.

[denavin]

Current crafting conquest objectives are infinitely repeatable(don't know who decided that was a good idea) and are easily abused with the use of macros. I haven't found any official statement on the macro matter dating less than at least 4 years. Can we get a clear "We ban people who use macros" or "We dont ban people who use macros" because right now the second statement is the closest to truth...OR make the crafting objectives a daily thing....so people that use macros cant abuse it as much

 

Here is your OFFICIAL Bioware Statement..... its at the bottom of every web page

https://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

In case you still can't find it

 

Mod, Hack and Cheat Prohibitions

 

Using mods, hacks and cheats can give players an unfair advantage over others. To help ensure a level and fair playing environment for the community and for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

 

You may not use any of your own software or third-party software to modify the Service content to change game play.

 

You may not use the intellectual property rights contained in the Game Content owned by EA or its licensors or the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.

 

You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our System.

 

You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate.

 

You may not use your or third-party software to rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in such a way as to use the Service to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or performed in the Service.

 

You may not engage in any conduct or practice that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, i.e., "item loading,".

 

Conduct prohibited shall include, without limitation, arranging, making or accepting in-Game transfers of items to a character without adequate in-Game consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in the transferee character's Account and having the effect of increasing its value for purposes of an out-of-game Account sale.

 

Seems to say it all right there.... Just because they are over 4 years old does not mean they do not still stand as the Rules of Conduct for the Current Game. Nothing has changed...

Edited August 26, 2020 by denavin

[Darev]

I did a test a few weeks ago using "archived" entry level schematics.

I chose archived for two reasons:

1) Some of them used to give back more mats than you used to create the item. This seems to have been changed, at least with what I crafted.

2) Archived schematics were the target of that OP's rant at the time.

 

So, to craft 50 items I maxed out my companions and it took 6 minutes to craft 50 items and then RE them back to mats.

I got about 75% of my mats back, and 1560 conquest points.

 

6 minutes per round, 75% mat retention rate. also, not enough time to effectively switch alts and do it on two toons at once.

 

So...60 minutes / 6 mins per round = 10 rounds in an hour.

15,600 conquest points in an hour.

 

24 hours in a day.

 

24x 15,600 = 374000 conquest points in 24 hours.

 

Even if, hypothetically, you could double it by getting each round down to 3 minutes using 8 level 50 companions, that's only 748800 conquest points in a day, strictly by crafting for the 50 items crafting goal that infinitely repeatable.

 

In a large guild where you can get multiple raid groups farming mobs in SM Operations...the crafting seems the least effective.

 

I don't know how long it would take for a single character in a raid group to farm that many points, but I can get that many points in 6-8 hours just doing solo pve stuff

 

 

Botting is against the rules. Flat out. It's really clear that the essence of the rules is one button press must equal one in game action.

So if you have PROOF of BOTTING, by all means, forward it to the people in charge.

 

going by conquest points alone is not proof of botting.

[Blood_Silver]

...

In case you still can't find it....

Completely ignore the fact that I said that I havent found anything from the last 4 years....Thank you for redirecting me to something from 2011

[Qouivandes]

Completely ignore the fact that I said that I havent found anything from the last 4 years....Thank you for redirecting me to something from 2011

 

Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy: I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained, et cetera, et cetera... Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum, et cetera, et cetera... Memo bis punitor delicatum! No Macros! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

Edited August 26, 2020 by Qouivandes

[Blood_Silver]

I did a test a few weeks ago using "archived" entry level schematics......

I just did the test with grade 1 bonded attachments using only 4 comps that are at lv50 and timed it 3 times.....I got 47, 43 and 51sec(because of crits)....Let us round to 1min for fun....then 1560cqpts/minx1440min/day= 2 246 400 cqpts/day

Let us divide that number by 2 just for fun= 1123200 cqpts per day

 

Mind you, I have done this with 4 comps....ONLY 4 comps

Edited August 26, 2020 by Blood_Silver
used toons for some reason

[Blood_Silver]

Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy: I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained, et cetera, et cetera... Fax mentis incendium gloria cultum, et cetera, et cetera... Memo bis punitor delicatum! No Macros! It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

Now if only they would give us numbers and statistics that show that this is being enforced....

[Blood_Silver]

...Which I'm not sure I believe, without actual screen shots...

Hopefully I am able to do this right....

https://imgur.com/a/A8qM6u4

There you go....also no I personally have no intent to participate in the drama between the top guilds(again I almost joined the other one....but the guy who whispered me went offline or switched toons(to craft probably/s) ....except now I realize that this thread is just fueling it....

Also believe it or not, in almost every guild I have been in, the top guilds are ALWAYS accused of cheating in someway...and the reason given in those times made me cringe quite a lot...so NO this thread is NOT an accusation....plz try not to treat it as such

Edited August 26, 2020 by Blood_Silver
/s because on the internet

[Darev]

that does seem a lot for the elapsed time so far for individual players.

 

However, that isn't proof of anything "illegal" and it's that proof that you need to forward to devs if you have it.

[Blood_Silver]

that does seem a lot for the elapsed time so far for individual players.

 

However, that isn't proof of anything "illegal" and it's that proof that you need to forward to devs if you have it.

Again not an accusation...this is just to show how unbalanced crafting is compared to other methods...the screenshot is there because I was asked for it.

[denavin]

Just because they are over 4 years old does not mean they do not still stand as the Rules of Conduct for the Current Game. Nothing has changed...

 

Seems that you have a comprehension problem

[Blood_Silver]

I haven't found any official statement on the macro matter dating less than at least 4 years.

You saying that the rules didn't change doesn't give me what asked with the post.....I read the rules of conduct, I also looked at dev posts about it....nothing newer than 4 years....I am aware that rules do not change from time, but the application of those rules does....

[Darev]

Again not an accusation...this is just to show how unbalanced crafting is compared to other methods...the screenshot is there because I was asked for it.

 

Did I miss the part where you proved that was because of crafting?

That screenshot has the top 5 spots and the 5th spot, the lowest value, is at 1.7 million points.

 

Even assuming your math is right, that you can do 1.1 million with 4 companions (and essentially unlimited resources - the main problem I have with your theory that this is because of crafting) and even IF you hypothetically double it to 8 companions for a 2.2 million.

 

That leaves 3 people on your list with more than that.

 

And let me tell you, knowing how those macros / third party programs work (well, at least one of them anyway) you can't do anything else while they run.

 

So you have 3 people who are getting more than even your theoretical max from crafting.

 

And again, you would need virtually unlimited resources / crafting mats for this "crafting macro abuse" to work.

THAT would definitely be noticed by the devs.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Darev

[Blood_Silver]

Did I miss the part where you proved that was because of crafting?

That screenshot has the top 5 spots and the 5th spot, the lowest value, is at 1.7 million points.

 

Even assuming your math is right, that you can do 1.1 million with 4 companions (and essentially unlimited resources - the main problem I have with your theory that this is because of crafting) and even IF you hypothetically double it to 8 companions for a 2.2 million.

 

That leaves 3 people on your list with more than that.

 

And let me tell you, knowing how those macros / third party programs work (well, at least one of them anyway) you can't do anything else while they run.

 

So you have 3 people who are getting more than even your theoretical max from crafting.

 

And again, you would need virtually unlimited resources / crafting mats for this "crafting macro abuse" to work.

THAT would definitely be noticed by the devs.

 

with a macro u could run it 24/7... so that would make 8mil with 8comps....the screenshot was asked by DarkTergen to show that people do get this amount that quickly...not accusing them of cheating in any way

[Darev]

you're going to have to show your math on that again.

re-reading what you wrote before, you said a max of 2.2 which you divided by half for the sake of the discussion.

 

Now it's jumped to 8 million per day from crafting alone?

 

No, sorry.

 

I'm not saying people aren't macro'ing it, because I don't know.

You still have no proof.

 

You have no proof that the high numbers are only because of crafting. You have no proof that anyone is macro'ing anything.

 

Or at least, if you do, you haven't presented it in the thread.

And honestly, if you sent it to the devs, you should just stop talking about it.

 

Since you're not, I'm guessing this is just more smoke and mirrors like the last few threads.

...I have this week off from work, so I have time to play forum pvp more than I usually do.

[Baletraeger]

I just did the test with grade 1 bonded attachments using only 4 comps that are at lv50 and timed it 3 times.....I got 47, 43 and 51sec(because of crits)....Let us round to 1min for fun....then 1560cqpts/minx1440min/day= 2 246 400 cqpts/day

Let us divide that number by 2 just for fun= 1123200 cqpts per day

 

Mind you, I have done this with 4 comps....ONLY 4 comps

 

 

The top conquest crafters are not crafting bonded attachments or archived items to rack up millions of points.

[Blood_Silver]

you're going to have to show your math on that again.

re-reading what you wrote before, you said a max of 2.2 which you divided by half for the sake of the discussion.

 

Now it's jumped to 8 million per day from crafting alone?

 

No, sorry.

 

I'm not saying people aren't macro'ing it, because I don't know.

You still have no proof.

 

You have no proof that the high numbers are only because of crafting. You have no proof that anyone is macro'ing anything.

 

Or at least, if you do, you haven't presented it in the thread.

And honestly, if you sent it to the devs, you should just stop talking about it.

 

Since you're not, I'm guessing this is just more smoke and mirrors like the last few threads.

...I have this week off from work, so I have time to play forum pvp more than I usually do.

4mil with 8 comps..8 mil is a typo on my part...I am not trying to provide proof of people macroing.I am trying to have proof that something is being done about it. Like oh yeah, we banned *insert stat based number* players for macroing. Or are you implying that assuming people abusing an easily abusable system is bad of me?

Analogy: A store says that stealing from it is punishable by death. People are all aware of this. They start to notice that the store has no security cameras, no security and a bunch of doors that lead out of it. Wether or not you steal from it comes to your morals...and I learned not to trust people's morals, especially on the internet.

 

I love having long arguments/discussions on forums in general.

[Baletraeger]

...I am not trying to provide proof of people macroing.I am trying to have proof that something is being done about it. Like oh yeah, we banned *insert stat based number* players for macroing. Or are you implying that assuming people abusing an easily abusable system is bad of me?

.

 

If you have proof of widespread cheating, you should be reporting it to the devs, not talking about it on the forums. Talking about macros and botting and exploits is counter to the forum guidelines.

 

If you don't have proof, what you are doing is gaslighting. The devs have shown that they will communicate about action against cheaters (PvP and credit sellers) so how do you draw the conclusion that there is widespread cheating in conquest when no actions are being reported?

[Blood_Silver]

If you have proof of widespread cheating, you should be reporting it to the devs, not talking about it on the forums. Talking about macros and botting and exploits is counter to the forum guidelines.

 

If you don't have proof, what you are doing is gaslighting. The devs have shown that they will communicate about action against cheaters (PvP and credit sellers) so how do you draw the conclusion that there is widespread cheating in conquest when no actions are being reported?

Swtor is a subscriber based game...Thus banning people would imply cutting part of the cash flow which EA doesn't want....so they could be disregarding macroing for crafting as too minor of a offense to punish people for it. PvP hackers make EA lose money(more people unsub if hacking continues), credit sellers do the same (less cc purchases), while crafting macros (if they exist)dont make them lose money since it is mostly singleplayer based. Talking about it on the forums is one of the ways to bring awareness to it and actually have an answer instead of a copy-paste.

[Sareeph]

I did a test a few weeks ago using "archived" entry level schematics.

I chose archived for two reasons:

1) Some of them used to give back more mats than you used to create the item. This seems to have been changed, at least with what I crafted.

2) Archived schematics were the target of that OP's rant at the time.

 

So, to craft 50 items I maxed out my companions and it took 6 minutes to craft 50 items and then RE them back to mats.

I got about 75% of my mats back, and 1560 conquest points.

 

6 minutes per round, 75% mat retention rate. also, not enough time to effectively switch alts and do it on two toons at once.

 

So...60 minutes / 6 mins per round = 10 rounds in an hour.

15,600 conquest points in an hour.

 

24 hours in a day.

 

24x 15,600 = 374000 conquest points in 24 hours.

 

Even if, hypothetically, you could double it by getting each round down to 3 minutes using 8 level 50 companions, that's only 748800 conquest points in a day, strictly by crafting for the 50 items crafting goal that infinitely repeatable.

 

In a large guild where you can get multiple raid groups farming mobs in SM Operations...the crafting seems the least effective.

 

I don't know how long it would take for a single character in a raid group to farm that many points, but I can get that many points in 6-8 hours just doing solo pve stuff

 

 

Botting is against the rules. Flat out. It's really clear that the essence of the rules is one button press must equal one in game action.

So if you have PROOF of BOTTING, by all means, forward it to the people in charge.

 

going by conquest points alone is not proof of botting.

 

You were obviously using the wrong archived pattern. The one that was being used and subsequently was changed by the Devs for the advantage it held, would give you 6 items in 7 seconds per craft with a possible crit for a 7th. It was nerfed to 3 items in 12 seconds with a crit for a 4th which still yields you more than attachments for time spent. That pre nerfed pattern could give you 384 items without a single crit in just under a minute using 8 comps. That's 7 1/2 conquest dings a minute. Now with the nerfed pattern you can yield 120 per minute without a single crit which gives you 2.4 dings a minute. That's 144 dings an hour without a single crit. That gives you almost 225k conquest per hour and even more if you crit. That's 1,707,120 conquest points (with zero crits) IF (big if) you have something running for 8 hours while you are at work not playing. Now that crafting bags have unlimited capacity you can have guildies give you mats and with an empty inventory you could hold just under 800k of the crafted item since they stack to 9,999. They also give you back about half the mats needed to make them when deconstructed.

[Jdast]

Swtor is a subscriber based game...Thus banning people would imply cutting part of the cash flow which EA doesn't want....so they could be disregarding macroing for crafting as too minor of a offense to punish people for it. PvP hackers make EA lose money(more people unsub if hacking continues), credit sellers do the same (less cc purchases), while crafting macros (if they exist)dont make them lose money since it is mostly singleplayer based. Talking about it on the forums is one of the ways to bring awareness to it and actually have an answer instead of a copy-paste.

 

So, here is how this thread has evolved (or devolved).

 

1) You started out blasting use of macros with no evidence in a thinly veiled retread of several posts from days gone by.

 

2) You got torched on the crafting mats issue.

 

3) In light of the combination of points 1 and 2, this is now a generic...(ooh ellipsis! ) I don't know if macros exist, but if they do...(ooh, another ellipsis)

 

Cheating is bad M'kay.

 

Strong in the Force, you are!

 

 

Dasty

Edited August 27, 2020 by Jdast

[DeannaVoyager]

Swtor is a subscriber based game...Thus banning people would imply cutting part of the cash flow which EA doesn't want....so they could be disregarding macroing for crafting as too minor of a offense to punish people for it. PvP hackers make EA lose money(more people unsub if hacking continues), credit sellers do the same (less cc purchases), while crafting macros (if they exist)dont make them lose money since it is mostly singleplayer based. Talking about it on the forums is one of the ways to bring awareness to it and actually have an answer instead of a copy-paste.

 

Talking about it on the forums, over and over again, after the previous threads from the same subject have been removed will only bring awareness to the fact that your guild/guildies/GM are bad losers who want to ruin the game from the rest of us. You have a problem with the other guild? Report them. If nothing happens, then you have no case. Don't drag all other servers and the forums into your private little war.

 

For arguments sake, let's pretend the other guild is using macros to craft, and let's pretend that it's against the rules. But you guys are not any better because reposting the same subject several times after it's already been removed (several times) is also against the rules. Pot and kettle...

[Baletraeger]

Swtor is a subscriber based game...Thus banning people would imply cutting part of the cash flow which EA doesn't want....so they could be disregarding macroing for crafting as too minor of a offense to punish people for it.

 

So now Bioware is complicit in your imaginary conquest macro scam. I think we've taken this about as far as possible. I'm gonna go eat my pancakes now.

[Blood_Silver]

Do not worry I will not continue the discussion here since it seems that the majority of the people that responded to this thread are so insecure that they are incapable of seeing outside of their little world...I wanted to talk about macros being used in an easily abusable crafting system...instead we talked about how I am accusing another guild of hacking and how I should not be talking about this because my guild is a sore second place loser and I definitely share the sentiment...(I use ellipsis to signify that I had more to say but didnt)...I am kind of disappointed for my first thread in the forum that I have been lurking on for now 2 years... Ill definitely make more

[Qouivandes]

The issue you are experiencing now is a direct result of attacks on this other guild specifically for the reasons stated as your concern now. There was really no other way this was going to play out.

 

The advice given which centered on contacting BW directly with proof that Macros were being used is the only way this should go. I am not sure if you were around lurking for this other guys threads, but they are almost identical. You are just barking up the same tree.

 

Are they using Macros? Maybe they are (which is against the ToS) maybe they are not, but without proof that they are then there is nothing anyone can do. I am sure, though, that more scrutiny might happen, but to expect BW to come back and give you personal attention on matters that, honestly, are not any of your business is bit...entitled?

 

regardless, at least you have not made multiple threads using different angles.