A Bit of a Rant on Game Changes.

[TheSpaceViking]

Apologies in advance, because I'm definitely retreading ground everyone has gone over before, at length.

 

After messing about at max level since the Zakuul content ended, then promptly setting the game aside for a good while, I recently decided to try some of the class stories I never got around to. So, for the first time in years, I'm leveling new characters through the original content.

 

It's changed. It's definitely changed. It's changed, and to be honest, I don't think I like it very much.

 

Yeah, yeah, I get it. "They changed it, now it sucks" is a common fan complaint on literally everything, but bear with me.

 

Their attempts to 'streamline' content, and 'make classes more distinct' have, in effect, ruined leveling for me. I might be the odd one out, but I actually liked waiting until 10 to pick up an advanced class. It let you get the hang of the basic class mechanics on the starter world without worrying about adding more onto it, and made your eventual choice more impactful. But what's worse is that in getting rid of it, they also got rid of a lot of the universal abilities from the base class. Now, my main's an assassin so losing some Sorc abilities isn't the end of the world (though losing Phase Walk hurts...) but it's made my Powertech downright unfun to play. Unload is gone. Death From Above is gone. Flamethrower is gone. Power Shot is gone. It turned what was a super-fun melee/mid-range hybrid class into a downright boring melee-only one that in my opinion completely loses what made the class fun and thematic in the first place.

 

Using a blaster as a skillstick just seems wrong for a Bounty Hunter, but yet the only ability it's used for as a powertech now is the default attack.

 

And Gunslingers lost Dirty Kick which is just downright obscene.

 

It seems if you so much as look at a sidequest you're immediately overleveled. And yeah yeah, it fixes your level to the planet, but that system is wonky. A 25 running around Dromund Kaas is still orders of magnitude more effective than a 17, despite them ostensibly being the same level due to the planet scaling. At first I thought half the sidequests had been removed, until I discovered that 'exploration missions' are now a toggle that's off by default, hidden in a very unintuitive place, and not mentioned or referred to as an option at all. Granted some of it's basic 'fetch me ten bear asses' sort of stuff, but there's some actually great quest chains and lore information in some of those quests that people now don't even know they're missing. And, again, even if you do toggle them on it just makes the overleveling problem worse.

 

Which brings me to the difficulty. Or, more to the point, the utter lack of it.

 

At launch wiping on bosses was a very real possibility. Combat actually required you to know your rotation and what you were doing. Now you can basically just faceroll everything without thinking. It's become mindless 'tap number key to win' for every class mission. There is no challenge. You can't even develop new tactics or really even learn to work with different specs because you kill everything so rapidly it doesn't matter anymore.

 

Well, at least until you get to ops and veteran instances. You know, the thing solo content should be preparing you for? It’s like the whole system is brainless right up until endgame where everything suddenly gets really complex and the game tries to shove all these new tactical mechanics your way. For people that actually played their class since before the changes hit this isn't really a problem, but new players are going to get rolled repeatedly.

 

I loved this game. I still do love this game. But I just feel like a lot of what I enjoyed about it just isn't there anymore.

 

If I were being uncharitable, I'd think this is all just designed to get free players to the end of the class story as rapidly as possible so they hit the point where they have to spend actual money.

 

I hope that isn't the case. I like to think the people working on this have actual passion for it, and I'm excited to see where it goes next, just...

 

The more I play the more I can't help but think how much more fun I'd be having if these changes weren't made.

[Primeconvoy]

I get what you're saying, and you make some very valid arguments.

 

But, for all intents and purposes, the class story's have now become more of a means to an end. Remember that this is still one of the last functions of vanilla.

 

And trust me, I was playing wow when they went away from making the leveling content "easy"...which was met with huge opposition. Let's be real, the true goal of playing this, or any MMO, really is to get to and experience all that the end game has to offer. And what Bioware has done is make that journey a little less tedious.

[phalczen]

I might be the odd one out, but I actually liked waiting until 10 to pick up an advanced class. It let you get the hang of the basic class mechanics on the starter world without worrying about adding more onto it, and made your eventual choice more impactful.

Ultimately, this was removed because a few people wanted to joke around and never selected an advanced class... this created issues, actually, in ranked pvp, but especially in Activity Finder and role balancing.

But what's worse is that in getting rid of it, they also got rid of a lot of the universal abilities from the base class. Now, my main's an assassin so losing some Sorc abilities isn't the end of the world (though losing Phase Walk hurts...) but it's made my Powertech downright unfun to play. Unload is gone. Death From Above is gone. Flamethrower is gone. Power Shot is gone. It turned what was a super-fun melee/mid-range hybrid class into a downright boring melee-only one that in my opinion completely loses what made the class fun and thematic in the first place.

DfA isn't gone, its just replaced with Deadly Onslaught, and my powertech still uses his flamethrower with Flamestorm, Flameburst, and Flame Sweep, and that's just when he's a shieldtech. As a pyrotech he lights even more things on fire. I do miss Unload, though, you're right about that. But ultimately these changes made the class easier to balance because by making PT a virtual melee spec, the Devs could increase their dps to compensate.

It seems if you so much as look at a sidequest you're immediately overleveled. And yeah yeah, it fixes your level to the planet, but that system is wonky. A 25 running around Dromund Kaas is still orders of magnitude more effective than a 17, despite them ostensibly being the same level due to the planet scaling.

That's an overstatement. The ability kit isn't even that different, because you don't even get another active ability in your discipline path until 26 or another utility until 27. Your tertiary stats aren't that different either, we're talking a percentage point maybe, depending if you've bother to change and optimize your gear. Neither an 18 nor a 25 has nearly enough accuracy to reach 110% so they're going to be missing quite a bit. It's hardly an order of magnitude even if you generously bump your example to level 27.

At launch wiping on bosses was a very real possibility.

I can agree with this. Personally, I think that story phases should be scaled to player level, instead of the planet, which would help this problem some.

You know, the thing solo content should be preparing you for? It’s like the whole system is brainless right up until endgame where everything suddenly gets really complex and the game tries to shove all these new tactical mechanics your way.

That's what Veteran Mode Chapters, Master Mode Chapters, and the Eternal Championship are for. There are some other ways to create solo challenges, but these are the big things built into the game to help train you for mechanics in group content. Of course you also use Veteran Flashpoints as you level.

[Tsillah]

I get what you're saying, and you make some very valid arguments.

 

But, for all intents and purposes, the class story's have now become more of a means to an end. Remember that this is still one of the last functions of vanilla.

 

And trust me, I was playing wow when they went away from making the leveling content "easy"...which was met with huge opposition. Let's be real, the true goal of playing this, or any MMO, really is to get to and experience all that the end game has to offer. And what Bioware has done is make that journey a little less tedious.

 

Considering how little new endgame there is, and how they made a lot of endgame easier as well and most players are never setting foot in HM or NiM ops....well, I'm not sure I follow you.

 

All they had to do is increase xp for story missions and NOT raise the level cap every expansions because that is tedious. You know, levels for the sake of levels.

[ceryxp]

I might be the odd one out, but I actually liked waiting until 10 to pick up an advanced class. It let you get the hang of the basic class mechanics on the starter world without worrying about adding more onto it, and made your eventual choice more impactful.

 

Ultimately, this was removed because a few people wanted to joke around and never selected an advanced class... this created issues, actually, in ranked pvp, but especially in Activity Finder and role balancing.

 

I understand your point, phalczen, and understand that it could be problematic and needed to be addressed I just think that BW addressed it the wrong way. I wish we still got to play as our base class for our starting planet. I think starting as a base class and then progressing to an advanced class added to the feeling of our character advancing in their training. Moving on from, for example, a Padawan to a full Jedi at the end of Tython. But I am an RP'er, so...

 

What I wish BW had done instead of removing the base class is just change the system so after we finished on our starter planet we would have a mission to visit a trainer and take an advanced class and until we did so we could not leave the starting planet, and while on the starting planet or until one took an advanced class one could not queue in activity finder. Doing that would have solved the issues you mentioned and retained that feeling of progression.

[Raansu]

I do miss death from above. The replacement PT's got is super lame. Actually most all the new abilities animations are lame.

 

The gunslinger losing dirty kick was a buff since they gained a 10m stun skill, though nothing beats the sound of a nut crunch lol.

[MingusPho]

I agree. I wish there was some way we could play under the old class system. I really don't enjoy playing what somebody else thinks my character should be. I want more freedom of choice.

[SteveTheCynic]

I really don't enjoy playing what somebody else thinks my character should be.

You cannot get away from that. To be sure, skill trees allow more flexibility, but it's still *restricted* flexibility.

[Tsillah]

I agree. I wish there was some way we could play under the old class system. I really don't enjoy playing what somebody else thinks my character should be. I want more freedom of choice.

Yeah there used to be hybrid builds possible back then and as far as I remember it, they all sucked when it comes to their output.

 

If that's your gig playing solo then sure. But the problem was that people started bringing these builds into group content. Whenever you're in a group of people you have to look at things a little differently. You can't just say there that you want to play your way because you enjoy it, while ruining the enjoyment of 3 or 7 other players. That's called selfishness.

 

Individualism only works when you're a hermit. If you want to be around other people, then you have to give a little or you're being anti-social.

 

What these builds meant was that people that already do less DPS than the rest of the group, make it worse by creating fun builds that are even less effective. Nobody wants to play together with someone like that.

[TrixxieTriss]

I agree. I wish there was some way we could play under the old class system. I really don't enjoy playing what somebody else thinks my character should be. I want more freedom of choice.

 

The option is to find an Armor set with a bonus and a tactical that suits the way you want to play. There are plenty of them in the game now.

 

As an example. I use two different tactical’s on my lightning sorc. One for when I know it’s going to be AOE heavy and one for more single target burst, I do the same with my rage jugg/fury Mara and my Merc has 3 tacticals and my sniper has 3.

 

All of them change how you play your class and even change the rotations.

[DzastinBiberi]

I don't wanna sound like "that guy", but the only thing these guys are passionate about is milking their playerbase.

[TheSpaceViking]

I do miss death from above. The replacement PT's got is super lame. Actually most all the new abilities animations are lame.

 

The gunslinger losing dirty kick was a buff since they gained a 10m stun skill, though nothing beats the sound of a nut crunch lol.

 

NGL, it's entirely down to the animation and sound effect.

 

Nothing beat getting leaped at by a Sith Warrior while you were hanging back, and just no-selling his Dark-Side-powered tomfoolery with a swift kick to the nadgers.

[Raansu]

NGL, it's entirely down to the animation and sound effect.

 

Nothing beat getting leaped at by a Sith Warrior while you were hanging back, and just no-selling his Dark-Side-powered tomfoolery with a swift kick to the nadgers.

 

Ya they probably could have compromized and gave the stun two animations. The one they have now for the 10m stun and if in melee range they do the nut crunch.

[phalczen]

Ya they probably could have compromized and gave the stun two animations. The one they have now for the 10m stun and if in melee range they do the nut crunch.

 

I can’t think of an ability that has one animation at range and another at point blank. Even saber throw and all it’s variants still plays the same animation. I can’t imagine that the tech exists to do that. I’m not sure about the delays that could introduce, if the animation generator has to look up results of the combat equation. If you notice, Dps animations still play out even if abilities miss. Additionally, if you encounter a lag spike in combat... latency skyrockets, connection is lost, whatever, you can actually still press buttons and see combat animations if they are instants without cooldowns. So I conclude that animation executes once an ability is pressed client side, and has no connection to the actual combat equations related to the results of using an ability.

[BlitherPaladin]

my only wish is for the developers to nerf the healing ability of companions down around 30% - 40%.

 

The game is essentially an interactive movie, and then suddenly expects you to learn rotations and class tactics. Like it should be more gradual, and having some sort of challenge during story would make players consider the use of their ability a bit more early on.