Save OGP!

[Aykos]

PvP'ers that like Odessen Proving Ground, now is the time to speak up!

 

This is my favorite map and I'd be really sad to see it go or changed. I love it cause it's one of the most objective based warzones. Your team can be completely outclassed in fighting yet still win easily with battle awareness and objective play. I really enjoy the small pockets of fighting around the map, getting in a 1v1, 2v2, and so on. And if the enemy wants to zerg in a pack, chasing kills, ignoring objectives Odessen is punishing.

 

Honestly, I haven't searched posts for what people's gripe is with Odessen but I rarely see it pop as it is. I hope the devs find a way to keep it in the rotation and still keep players happy... Maybe add a new Random Activation warzone to lump it in with for the match variety system. I'd like to see a map with even more nodes lol

[TrixxieTriss]

PvP'ers that like Odessen Proving Ground, now is the time to speak up!

 

This is my favorite map and I'd be really sad to see it go or changed. I love it cause it's one of the most objective based warzones. Your team can be completely outclassed in fighting yet still win easily with battle awareness and objective play. I really enjoy the small pockets of fighting around the map, getting in a 1v1, 2v2, and so on. And if the enemy wants to zerg in a pack, chasing kills, ignoring objectives Odessen is punishing.

 

Honestly, I haven't searched posts for what people's gripe is with Odessen but I rarely see it pop as it is. I hope the devs find a way to keep it in the rotation and still keep players happy... Maybe add a new Random Activation warzone to lump it in with for the match variety system. I'd like to see a map with even more nodes lol

 

Nope. I really don’t like OPG and it’s not the map, it’s the way people play it because it’s really not a map designed for casuals. And so causals don’t know how to play it. They rarely if ever play the objectives. The only time I win at OPG is when I carry the whole team myself by playing the objectives and the other team is just as stupid as mine. Otherwise it’s a loss 90% of the time for me.

 

It’s a map that would be good for ranked 8v8 play and a coordinated team on comms. But the way it’s currently designed isn’t good for casual regs where people just want to fight in a gank group in the middle of no where.

 

The good news for you is Bioware are looking at ways to fix it so it will work in causal regs. In the mean time, they aren’t fully removing the map (so don’t panic), they are just reducing the amount it pops. Which for me is a good compromise if they go ahead with with the 15min deserter lock out timers because I usually leave most of the OPG games I pop into at the start. Which means if I get the occasional OPG, I will stay. But if they had the lock out timer and it popped as much as it does now, I would quit pvp altogether. And I’m not alone with that sentiment.

 

Also, Bioware must have metrics besides people who complain they hate it on the forums, I would go so far as to say they know exactly how many people quit OPG when it pops and are using that data to make this decision.

And to that point, I have asked Bioware in their own official thread if they can let us know if this is where their metrics are coming from so that we don’t have the community start ripping into each other on the forums over these changes.

[DavidAtkinson]

Nope. I really don’t like OPG and it’s not the map, it’s the way people play it because it’s really not a map designed for casuals. And so causals don’t know how to play it. They rarely if ever play the objectives. The only time I win at OPG is when I carry the whole team myself by playing the objectives and the other team is just as stupid as mine. Otherwise it’s a loss 90% of the time for me.

 

It’s a map that would be good for ranked 8v8 play and a coordinated team on comms. But the way it’s currently designed isn’t good for casual regs where people just want to fight in a gank group in the middle of no where.

 

The good news for you is Bioware are looking at ways to fix it so it will work in causal regs. In the mean time, they aren’t fully removing the map (so don’t panic), they are just reducing the amount it pops. Which for me is a good compromise if they go ahead with with the 15min deserter lock out timers because I usually leave most of the OPG games I pop into at the start. Which means if I get the occasional OPG, I will stay. But if they had the lock out timer and it popped as much as it does now, I would quit pvp altogether. And I’m not alone with that sentiment.

 

Also, Bioware must have metrics besides people who complain they hate it on the forums, I would go so far as to say they know exactly how many people quit OPG when it pops and are using that data to make this decision.

And to that point, I have asked Bioware in their own official thread if they can let us know if this is where their metrics are coming from so that we don’t have the community start ripping into each other on the forums over these changes.

 

So how exactly is it the map's fault that players are idiots and unable to learn the mechanics ? That map is one of the easiest to learn and play...

 

But you cannot really say it sucks because people are unable to play it, can you ? If we follow your logic, players in 6.0 are incapable of playing most of the maps , as all they do is run around while 3 or 4 players on each team know what they are doing.

 

And for me OPG is one of best maps after arenas. Best for duels, obj play , incredible turn around of matches.

 

The map has nothing to do with the fact that players don't want to play it properly and it has been like this since day one. It was one of my favorites since that day and they'd better not remove it.

[TrixxieTriss]

So how exactly is it the map's fault that players are idiots and unable to learn the mechanics ? That map is one of the easiest to learn and play...

 

But you cannot really say it sucks because people are unable to play it, can you ? If we follow your logic, players in 6.0 are incapable of playing most of the maps , as all they do is run around while 3 or 4 players on each team know what they are doing.

 

And for me OPG is one of best maps after arenas. Best for duels, obj play , incredible turn around of matches.

 

The map has nothing to do with the fact that players don't want to play it properly and it has been like this since day one. It was one of my favorites since that day and they'd better not remove it.

 

First, let me get this out of the way. They are not removing the map. They are reducing the amount it pops. So you will still get OPG pops. Just not as many as now.

 

Maybe I didn’t explain myself enough. The map isn’t bad as such. It’s just not the right type for causal pvpers because most of the time people can’t see other players because of all the seperate rooms, how large it is and how the mini maps don’t track the enemy far enough.

 

And you are right in saying it’s not hard to learn. It literally took me a few matches to get the hang of the basics and watching the early pts streamers who tested it to learn some early tactics and strategy.

 

But causals don’t care about objectives and will run in a gank group most of the time. They won’t even stay to hold a node and let it go gray (neutral again) once they kill the enemy.

 

Now casuals not caring these days isn’t anything new. We know how terrible they are at playing objectives in other maps too. The difference is the other maps mostly have line of sight to the enemy or you can see them on your mini map. And even if you can’t, you don’t have to go far to find them.

 

Also the objectives / mechanics are much simpler in other maps and there are less off them in static positions that don’t move every round. Even the dumbest casual can pick up on what the game play is and how to win in those.

Where as over half of the ones in OPG don’t and never will because it’s too hard for them to wrap their minds around.

Just trying to explain the colour mods and how to use them is like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

 

I get you like the map and I understand your reasoning, but that doesn’t mean I can’t play it because I don’t like the matches, I’m actually very good at OPG and the times we win are because I’ve been able to carry the team. But they are also mostly boring matches for me because I spend half the time guarding nodes and don’t see anyone to fight or if I do, it’s 1v5 while my other 7 team mates are chasing 3 guys all over the map.

That just isn’t my idea of fun and it’s why I leave most matches as soon as the map pops.

 

I used to stay and see if my team was going to try or not and if they tried I would stay even if we were losing. But I would more often than not leave even if we were winning because my team wasnt trying to win and the only reason we were was because I kept getting green mods and guarded whole rounds without seeing anyone while the other team and mind death matches away from any active nodes that were still neutral.

 

My point is, Bioware obviously have enough data to see how many people leave matches and what types. They have also admitted there are some design issues they wish to fix to make the map easier to have fun in.

They aren’t just taking these steps based on how many people complain on the forums about OPG, which isn’t even half as much as complain about Hutt ball. So there has to be to it.

Edited July 18, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[DavidAtkinson]

First, let me get this out of the way. They are not removing the map. They are reducing the amount it pops. So you will still get OPG pops. Just not as many as now.

 

Maybe I didn’t explain myself enough. The map isn’t bad as such. It’s just not the right type for causal pvpers because most of the time people can’t see other players because of all the seperate rooms, how large it is and how the mini maps don’t track the enemy far enough.

 

And you are right in saying it’s not hard to learn. It literally took me a few matches to get the hang of the basics and watching the early pts streamers who tested it to learn some early tactics and strategy.

 

But causals don’t care about objectives and will run in a gank group most of the time. They won’t even stay to hold a node and let it go gray (neutral again) once they kill the enemy.

 

Now casuals not caring these days isn’t anything new. We know how terrible they are at playing objectives in other maps too. The difference is the other maps mostly have line of sight to the enemy or you can see them on your mini map. And even if you can’t, you don’t have to go far to find them.

 

Also the objectives / mechanics are much simpler in other maps and there are less off them in static positions that don’t move every round. Even the dumbest casual can pick up on what the game play is and how to win in those.

Where as over half of the ones in OPG don’t and never will because it’s too hard for them to wrap their minds around.

Just trying to explain the colour mods and how to use them is like talking to a brick wall sometimes.

 

I get you like the map and I understand your reasoning, but that doesn’t mean I can’t play it because I don’t like the matches, I’m actually very good at OPG and the times we win are because I’ve been able to carry the team. But they are also mostly boring matches for me because I spend half the time guarding nodes and don’t see anyone to fight or if I do, it’s 1v5 while my other 7 team mates are chasing 3 guys all over the map.

That just isn’t my idea of fun and it’s why I leave most matches as soon as the map pops.

 

I used to stay and see if my team was going to try or not and if they tried I would stay even if we were losing. But I would more often than not leave even if we were winning because my team wasnt trying to win and the only reason we were was because I kept getting green mods and guarded whole rounds without seeing anyone while the other team and mind death matches away from any active nodes that were still neutral.

 

My point is, Bioware obviously have enough data to see how many people leave matches and what types. They have also admitted there are some design issues they wish to fix to make the map easier to have fun in.

They aren’t just taking these steps based on how many people complain on the forums about OPG, which isn’t even half as much as complain about Hutt ball. So there has to be to it.

 

The fact that they don't play objectives doesn't mean that they are casuals... Ranked players don't play objectives, but you cannot say they are casuals. Casuals are bad players in general... and that doesn't have anything to do with objectives. Objectives is just one aspect of a bigger problem.

 

But returning to the map - the fact that player's can't see others is not really a good reason to call this map bad. Doesn't matter where the other players, you go where the nodes are. That's the most likely reason where you will find other players, or not. If you are really trying, you can try getting greens to light up another extra node for your team. But things like that require extreme brain processing power , something that most players on that map kind of lack or are unwilling to use.

 

One of the weaknesses of this map is that you don't know where the next nodes will be and this creates an rng factor that can turn the outcome of the game in a certain direction, regardless of player's skill.

[TrixxieTriss]

The fact that they don't play objectives doesn't mean that they are casuals... Ranked players don't play objectives, but you cannot say they are casuals. Casuals are bad players in general... and that doesn't have anything to do with objectives. Objectives is just one aspect of a bigger problem.

 

But returning to the map - the fact that player's can't see others is not really a good reason to call this map bad. Doesn't matter where the other players, you go where the nodes are. That's the most likely reason where you will find other players, or not. If you are really trying, you can try getting greens to light up another extra node for your team. But things like that require extreme brain processing power , something that most players on that map kind of lack or are unwilling to use.

 

One of the weaknesses of this map is that you don't know where the next nodes will be and this creates an rng factor that can turn the outcome of the game in a certain direction, regardless of player's skill.

 

Dude, I’m not saying the map is bad. I’m saying the design isn’t conducive for causal regs. But it would work well as a 8v8 ranked type map.

Edited July 18, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[varietasplus]

So how exactly is it the map's fault that players are idiots and unable to learn the mechanics ? That map is one of the easiest to learn and play...

 

But you cannot really say it sucks because people are unable to play it, can you ? If we follow your logic, players in 6.0 are incapable of playing most of the maps , as all they do is run around while 3 or 4 players on each team know what they are doing.

 

And for me OPG is one of best maps after arenas. Best for duels, obj play , incredible turn around of matches.

 

The map has nothing to do with the fact that players don't want to play it properly and it has been like this since day one. It was one of my favorites since that day and they'd better not remove it.

 

 

I second that. Odessen is the best map in PVP genre ever created.

 

The real problem is most players don't want to play objectives, they just want to press buttons and global a single target in a team. However, they won't queue arenas, because it would turnt out how bad they are and they don't want to lose.

[Lundorff]

It is a PvP map that rewards you for NOT doing PvP. Of course people queuing for PvP is going to dislike it. I can not begin to count the times I have "won" that match for our team by simply running the objectives and avoiding PvP as much as possible.

[-Ashton-]

Odess is a player vs environment map, where avoiding pvp will grant the biggest bonus. It has its place for players who want to play objective chess. Perhaps removing the scoreboard and showing objective scores only, with a rewards based score system. This may encourage people to play it properly.

 

 

Not me though, I think it's absolutely garbage

[varietasplus]

It is a PvP map that rewards you for NOT doing PvP. Of course people queuing for PvP is going to dislike it. I can not begin to count the times I have "won" that match for our team by simply running the objectives and avoiding PvP as much as possible.

 

That is superficial reasoning. If everyone played objectives, you would have to fight for each position and mod. There is nothing wrong with the map, it is all about the dumb players moving like a group of sheep.

[bladech]

PvP'ers that like Odessen Proving Ground, now is the time to speak up!

 

This is my favorite map and I'd be really sad to see it go or changed. I love it cause it's one of the most objective based warzones. Your team can be completely outclassed in fighting yet still win easily with battle awareness and objective play. I really enjoy the small pockets of fighting around the map, getting in a 1v1, 2v2, and so on. And if the enemy wants to zerg in a pack, chasing kills, ignoring objectives Odessen is punishing.

 

Honestly, I haven't searched posts for what people's gripe is with Odessen but I rarely see it pop as it is. I hope the devs find a way to keep it in the rotation and still keep players happy... Maybe add a new Random Activation warzone to lump it in with for the match variety system. I'd like to see a map with even more nodes lol

 

I enjoy opg. Devs have no rights to chose warzone map priority pops for us. Only players themselves must be able to chose priority maps for pops. Period

[abhaxus]

So how exactly is it the map's fault that players are idiots and unable to learn the mechanics ? That map is one of the easiest to learn and play...

 

But you cannot really say it sucks because people are unable to play it, can you ? If we follow your logic, players in 6.0 are incapable of playing most of the maps , as all they do is run around while 3 or 4 players on each team know what they are doing.

 

And for me OPG is one of best maps after arenas. Best for duels, obj play , incredible turn around of matches.

 

The map has nothing to do with the fact that players don't want to play it properly and it has been like this since day one. It was one of my favorites since that day and they'd better not remove it.

 

It's absolutely bad design if the map isn't intuitive and casual players cannot figure out how to play it. It's bad design if players who are actively trying to play the objectives can't because the RNG factor doesn't work out in their favor and they get stuck in no man's land with a deactivate mod but no nearby nodes. It's bad design if a stealth class gets stuck with a mod and now cannot stealth out to survive another fight.

 

The best maps are ones that encourage "incidental objective play" where players who are actually PvPing will affect the outcome on the capture of the objective. Alderaan for example: players will naturally gravitate toward the nodes where PvP is occuring.

 

The reason people hate it is because of the RNG. I posted this on the other thread but the fix is pretty simple IMO:

 

1) make the active nodes rotate on a set pattern. First round mid, north, east. Second round South, west (mid spawns a random battle mod).

2) make the battle mods spawn in each corner without any RNG. Same mod in the same corner every time. Make this display on the mini map.

 

You can read the main dev post thread for a full description of what I suggested. I think it will encourage players to make strategic decisions about what nodes to focus on capping each round.

[varietasplus]

It's absolutely bad design if the map isn't intuitive and casual players cannot figure out how to play it. It's bad design if players who are actively trying to play the objectives can't because the RNG factor doesn't work out in their favor and they get stuck in no man's land with a deactivate mod but no nearby nodes. It's bad design if a stealth class gets stuck with a mod and now cannot stealth out to survive another fight.

 

The best maps are ones that encourage "incidental objective play" where players who are actually PvPing will affect the outcome on the capture of the objective. Alderaan for example: players will naturally gravitate toward the nodes where PvP is occuring.

 

The reason people hate it is because of the RNG. I posted this on the other thread but the fix is pretty simple IMO:

 

1) make the active nodes rotate on a set pattern. First round mid, north, east. Second round South, west (mid spawns a random battle mod).

2) make the battle mods spawn in each corner without any RNG. Same mod in the same corner every time. Make this display on the mini map.

 

You can read the main dev post thread for a full description of what I suggested. I think it will encourage players to make strategic decisions about what nodes to focus on capping each round.

 

 

I disagree with each and every point in your statement.

 

I acknowledge Bioware should make a tutorial for each warzone. However, this is not rocket science. Whoever can not comprehend Odessen is very likely to have serious issues in real life.

 

There is no problem with the RNG either. You have 8 players in your team, therefore you can cover all 5 nodes and 3 potential mod positions. The real problem is that players are moving like a group of sheep, so it does not matter if they can predict the nodes or not. Also, having a set pattern for node transition, people would still move in hordes - or is it what you want: groups globalling objective-orientated, therefore scattered players?

 

Furthermore, you can guess the 2nd round nodes by simply remembering the first round nodes (very likely to be different). For the final rounds, you are going to have 4 active nodes, so RNG becomes of less relevance.

 

Same mod in the same corner is a controversial idea: it would add a new difficulty layer to the map, since the relevance of each mod would vary depending on the number and occupant of nodes and the current point standing. Such tactical depth will definitely beyond most players' intellectual level.

 

To sum it up, I find your ideas terrible. RNG is a poor excuse to hate Odessen. The real reason is players want to move in groups because they are bads and globalling other players provides the illusion of being good at what they are doing. Reducing RNG would not increase tactical approach or objective-orientated thinking either for the bads or for the number farmers.

Edited July 18, 2020 by varietasplus

[Evolixe]

The reason OPG is bad is because it's completely random. The amount of random factors at play often outweigh the efforts even a coordinated group can make.

 

 

• First off, you have the capture points that are either completely random or in patterns yet unidentified.
   
  What this means that you'll want to spread people across the map as evenly as possible so you can stop the other team from claiming any objective first. The problem with this comes when active capture points spawn on a side of the map that is overwhelmingly under control of 1 team. There is nothing you can do about that and it more often than not means you will lose out on a better part of the active capture points.
   
  Now I can already hear some of you counter argue that "it doesn't always happen like that, sometimes we take more bases from the enemy team despite them having control over that part of the map when they became active" To which I'm just going to say: Yes. And that's a really shortsighted view because at that point your team is so overwhelmingly more powerful than the enemy team that you would've won the game anyway. The point im trying to make here is that the map isn't fair under roughly equal teams.
  

 

 

• Secondly you also have the powerups, who are also random. If 1 team gets a green powerup and another gets a yellow powerup, the team with the green powerup ALREADY has an opper hand over the team with a yellow powerup. Since the yellow powerup has no influence on how many objective points a capture point produces. It only has any effect on the speed at which it will progress.
  

 

 

So that's 2 layers of randomness with 4 spawn locations for powerups and 5 possibilities for objective capture points.

I don't know how any of you guys' math is but in order to cover all of those you need 4+5= 9 people in your team and that's without taking into account that people are inevitably going to engage in combat to stop you from getting there in the first place.

 

If it was a 24 or 36 man Warzone it might work (then again the engine would crap itself)

However with the way things are you can't possibly account for every level of RNG.

[TrixxieTriss]

The power ups aren’t random. You just have to time them right when you pick them up and hope there isn’t any lag.

9/10 times I can get the colour mods I wants.

[Evolixe]

The power ups aren’t random. You just have to time them right when you pick them up and hope there isn’t any lag.

9/10 times I can get the colour mods I wants.

 

Then you're standing around doing nothing, which then brings me back to the former point of being unable to account for every objective in the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

Then you're standing around doing nothing, which then brings me back to the former point of being unable to account for every objective in the game.

 

Are you serious? That’s the dumbest response I’ve ever seen. It’s literally like 2-4 seconds to time it properly and you are telling others how to play the map

[Evolixe]

Are you serious? That’s the dumbest response I’ve ever seen. It’s literally like 2-4 seconds to time it properly and you are telling others how to play the map

 

2-4 seconds is an eternity in pvp-time, miss.

[Lundorff]

That is superficial reasoning. If everyone played objectives, you would have to fight for each position and mod. There is nothing wrong with the map, it is all about the dumb players moving like a group of sheep.

 

Many things would be different in this world if people functioned optimal

 

A map-design has to accommodate the average stupidity of the player base, and for this purpose the original maps are far superior. They are certainly not perfect and some of them has been tweaked here and there, but they have always functioned from an objective based perspective as PvP was a major part of them. You could simply play them intuitively.

 

OPG not so much. The map is not hard to understand by any means, but it doesn't invite PvP unless, as you say, everyone is playing correct. It doesn't guide players towards objective based PvP.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Lundorff

[abhaxus]

I disagree with each and every point in your statement.

Sure, because you are incapable of understanding basic reasoning, and are basing your arguments on things that are obviously untrue.

 

I acknowledge Bioware should make a tutorial for each warzone. However, this is not rocket science. Whoever can not comprehend Odessen is very likely to have serious issues in real life.

This is unnecessary, and no one is suggesting that. The warzones should be explainable and winnable following guidelines which are covered in the 90 second voiceover during warmup. This is true of every other warzone, because RNG is not a factor.

There is no problem with the RNG either. You have 8 players in your team, therefore you can cover all 5 nodes and 3 potential mod positions.

Group PVP is not 8 solo battles being fought on islands. It's group PVP.

The real problem is that players are moving like a group of sheep, so it does not matter if they can predict the nodes or not. Also, having a set pattern for node transition, people would still move in hordes - or is it what you want: groups globalling objective-orientated, therefore scattered players?

Yes, it will always be preferable for a group of players to defeat players who are playing group PVP as if it is a solo PVE instance.

 

Furthermore, you can guess the 2nd round nodes by simply remembering the first round nodes (very likely to be different). For the final rounds, you are going to have 4 active nodes, so RNG becomes of less relevance.

This is absolutely, 100% untrue. The previous round has no bearing on what nodes activate for the next.

 

The only tactically prescient moves available to players during 'resets' are to position themselves in the two hallways adjacent to mid, or possibly on the deck above mid next to south. Even then, if you position yourself just outside mid to the east, and the west node opens up, you're out of position because of a coin flip. Same for south or north. It's just terrible design. The fact that you can't see that is really embarrassing.

 

Same mod in the same corner is a controversial idea: it would add a new difficulty layer to the map, since the relevance of each mod would vary depending on the number and occupant of nodes and the current point standing. Such tactical depth will definitely beyond most players' intellectual level.

I also have a low opinion of the average player's intelligence, but since yours is seeming lower than that...

 

To sum it up, I find your ideas terrible. RNG is a poor excuse to hate Odessen. The real reason is players want to move in groups because they are bads and globalling other players provides the illusion of being good at what they are doing. Reducing RNG would not increase tactical approach or objective-orientated thinking either for the bads or for the number farmers.

The point, as I stated in my own post, is that good map design encourages "incidental objective play" from all players. The randomness of OPG does not do that. That is obvious to nearly everyone.

[TrixxieTriss]

2-4 seconds is an eternity in pvp-time, miss.

 

Not if you time it on your way up the ramp

 

And remember, this isn’t arena, it’s objective pvp. A few seconds to get the right mod can win you the game. So miss indeed

Edited July 19, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[Dimitir]

OPG-lover here... actually my most favorite map... you never know what s lurking around the corner... it s super exciting and huge too

[varietasplus]

Yes, it will always be preferable for a group of players to defeat players who are playing group PVP as if it is a solo PVE instance.

 

This approach is short-sighted. It is part of map diversity to demand players to split into smaller groups or require a solo task. Capturing a side turret, running to help out a single defender (on your own), planting a bomb in VS on the opposite side as a stealther is just as much part of the group effort as putting pressure on the mid turret/other door. In HB, staying in line the whole match is just as important as ruling mid. These are all solo tasks, Odessen just pushes this to the limit and as a result, you can do a lot for your team on your own - as a matter of fact, moving in large groups is counterproductive, especially in the final rounds. This feature makes the map unique - whether players like it or not is a different matter.

 

The previous round has no bearing on what nodes activate for the next.

That is true, but the probability of having the same 2 turrets in the 2nd round is lower than having another combination.

 

The only tactically prescient moves available to players during 'resets' are to position themselves in the two hallways adjacent to mid, or possibly on the deck above mid next to south. Even then, if you position yourself just outside mid to the east, and the west node opens up, you're out of position because of a coin flip. Same for south or north. It's just terrible design. The fact that you can't see that is really embarrassing.

 

It is not that I don't see your reasoning, I just don't agree with your preference/conclusion. Sure, RNG is not fair, therefore you can not predict 100% what happens next round. Such feature is very likely to cause frustration, it would piss me off as well in most cases. However, in OPG there are 5 nodes and 5 mods, so you have alternatives to make out the most of your position (which includes giving up a node to get a mod and/or get in position for next round). The main feature of this map is pushing situational awereness to a great extent - I understand why many people dislike it; but that does not make the map terrible.

 

I also have a low opinion of the average player's intelligence, but since yours is seeming lower than that...

Intelligent people never offend their opponent. Sarcasm and vituperation are retaliation, a sign of running out of reason or low self-esteem.

 

The point, as I stated in my own post, is that good map design encourages "incidental objective play" from all players. The randomness of OPG does not do that. That is obvious to nearly everyone.

 

Once again we are down to preference. I agree this method probably benefits most, but reduces map diversity and tactical depth. It is like movie making; you make 4 blockbusters for a wider audiance that finances a single art movie for a smaller one. Would you give up on the latter? I would not. I do believe the hate for Odessen is not primarily about RNG. It is about having to find the enemy scattered all around the map as opposed to domination maps, where they just have to charge in mid for a mindless deathmatch; most people simply don't want to play objectives.

Edited July 19, 2020 by varietasplus

[merovejec]

I said it in Chris thread and I am also saying it here, OPG is a great map!! Its unique among the other maps and provides a little bit of everything. It will be really really sad if Decs decide to do something against this map!!

[-Bob-]

So how exactly is it the map's fault that players are idiots and unable to learn the mechanics ? That map is one of the easiest to learn and play...

 

But you cannot really say it sucks because people are unable to play it, can you ? If we follow your logic, players in 6.0 are incapable of playing most of the maps , as all they do is run around while 3 or 4 players on each team know what they are doing.

 

And for me OPG is one of best maps after arenas. Best for duels, obj play , incredible turn around of matches.

 

The map has nothing to do with the fact that players don't want to play it properly and it has been like this since day one. It was one of my favorites since that day and they'd better not remove it.

 

I completely agree, I love OPG. It's a good map with a bit of a learning curve, but once you understand it then the game really changes for you.

The only people that dont get it are those who dont pay attention and try to play objectively, they will always be around, there's no getting rid of them.