@LFG tool haterz

[Lestain]

I would like to see more flashpoints, but i don't want to stand hours in the imperial fleet looking for a group or trying to form one. So i am missing out on fps, sucks

[Jimmc]

I would like to see more flashpoints, but i don't want to stand hours in the imperial fleet looking for a group or trying to form one. So i am missing out on fps, sucks

 

I would liek to see more flashpoints, so when i do flashpoints i make sure to add the ones who i liked to my friends list so we can group again thus solving my waiting problem. I am geting all the fps i need, awesome

[acheros]

I would liek to see more flashpoints, so when i do flashpoints i make sure to add the ones who i liked to my friends list so we can group again thus solving my waiting problem. I am geting all the fps i need, awesome

 

I assume you ask first..

 

I wouldn't want some random A hole whos name i dont even remember bugging me for flashpoints all the time just because i was good.

[Deavyin]

I might eventually learn to live with server only automated tool. but any hint of cross server and I'll be out before the game has a chance to make me hate it. I'd rather keep my good memories intact then feel the way I do about WoW nowadays.

 

no, spamming general is no more social then waiting for a tool to do all the work for you and grouping with random strangers. but forming your own groups, instead of being handed them on a platter - is.

 

 

answer me this: why would you quit a game for implementing a tool you don't have to use? Is it because other people will use it and you don't think we should have a feature we will utilize? A LFD tool will not impact you in anyway whatsoever because you never have to use it. It's like me saying "if they "if they allow people to change the color of the interface i'm so out of here"...wha?!?!? Who gives a flying F what other people do in the game if it has absolutely zero impact on you. Being forced to go through tedious steps to form a group DOES have an negative impact on my enjoyment. You currently have the system you want and not a single one of us is trying to remove it. We are only asking that an ADDITIONAL system be added to accomidate our play styles and busy lives...

 

people keep talking about how LFD creates a-holes...i think the a-holes are people who demand that a feature be left out of a game (again a feature that has NO bearing on them) because they personaly don't like it/won't use it/don't see it's point. That is some real a-hole anti-community stuff. I'm not trying to deny you ANYTHING...yet you are trying to deny me.

[Frnnd]

With LFD i would be forced to use it in some way. Many would use it just because of lazyness, many will use it as it remains the only way to get into a group and more and more players would use it because they will get, most times not politely, asked to join LFD that has been created just for that purpose.

I remeber that was the case in WoW once LFD came out :S

So, yes, if i have to choose between being forced to do it in a way which i don't like, then i prefer others to do it the way i like. Basically it doesn't change, someone would not be happy: Wait and see what Bioware thinks about this matter, everyone will have to do Bioware's way anyway.

[Deavyin]

True, while now what you have to do is just watching on you tube one of the very few real gamers while defeating a boss for the first time and learn every trick. Then you use a bunch of addons which will tell you exactly what to do and when to do it. That's the reason you stopped playing wow, bored because it was not you playing, it was your addons and youtube.

Since wotlk i played that game less than half of the time i payed for and subscribed less than six months a year ( and i started with the beta, too....).

Oh, and lost almost all my friends (because they left the game) since wotlk and few that were still playing during wotlk, left with cata.

New players don't know how it was at the beginning and can like it. Most old players didn't like the changes, which were made to attract the new generation and left (and are still leaving in a worrying and growing number).

 

Only my opinion anyway. and i wish Bioware would give us only the tools to modify the UI and the character appearance while they progress... nothing else, no LFD nor Addons.

 

 

million f'ing time having to respond to this backwards logic. People left because addons played the game for you and youtube videos explained how to beat bosses. Did anyone force you or your friends to watch those videos or use addons? And who cares if other people watch those videos or use addons. You are saying a game sucks when people become confident at it and don't wipe constantly, wasting hours worth of everyones time?

 

you don't want a LFD nor addons?! You don't want those things, don't use them. If I want them and I find value in them then I have every right to use them. Where do you get off telling me what I can and can't have in my game?

[Jeweledleah]

million f'ing time having to respond to this backwards logic. People left because addons played the game for you and youtube videos explained how to beat bosses. Did anyone force you or your friends to watch those videos or use addons? And who cares if other people watch those videos or use addons. You are saying a game sucks when people become confident at it and don't wipe constantly, wasting hours worth of everyones time?

 

you don't want a LFD nor addons?! You don't want those things, don't use them. If I want them and I find value in them then I have every right to use them. Where do you get off telling me what I can and can't have in my game?

 

if you want to be in any way competitive or god forbid don't have a guild or friends who raid? yes. you were forced to. if you wanted to join a raiding guild? yes you were forced to. and its gotten so bad that Blizzard started designing encounters AROUND USING ADDONS.

 

so, I'm sorry, but your logic of "don't want them, don't use them" doesn't wash.

 

whenever a feature is implemented that affects multiplayer? it affects everyone, whether they like to or not.

[Deavyin]

It does impact me tho. It is much harder to enjoy myself when the community has went down the drain. My analogy holds about as much water as yours.

 

no your analogy certainly does not...the community does not go downhill because of a simple LFD tool. how in gods name does a tool designed for making finding a group easier for people somehow turn a community into a bunch of a-holes? Furthermore...even if you made the claim (as spurious as it is) that it strips accountability and promotes griefing, how does that transfer outside of groups created solely with the LFD Finder?!?!?!?!?! You never have to use the tool so you NEVER have to be in a situation where there is no accountability. You can continue to group with same server friends/guildies/people you vett and never ever EVER EVER have to group with a single person from another server in a situation where there is no accountability

 

and you can kick people...you know, if they start acting like an *** you can kick them and, unlike the way it currently works, the tool will quickly find someone else to fill the group. The way it works now, it takes way too long to find a group and, if someone has to leave mid flashpoint/heroic, you are screwed until you can manage to find someone new which means leaving the flashpoint and doing a new search.

 

to all those saying "use the tool that currently exists". Look: if the tool isn't being used it's obviously broken as is or just pointless and unwanted in it's current state. It's as simple as that. It's like having a wrench that goes to nothing...sure, it's a tool, you can put it in your tool box but no one is ever going to use it for anything. Does that make it a good tool? Hell no...if the current LFG tool was competent then people would use it...they don't so it's not...simple but effective logic. Regardless of if you like it or not, people use the LFD tool in WoW/Rift and therefore is it effective as a tool because it is utilized by a large portion of the base.

[Jeweledleah]

answer me this: why would you quit a game for implementing a tool you don't have to use? Is it because other people will use it and you don't think we should have a feature we will utilize? A LFD tool will not impact you in anyway whatsoever because you never have to use it. It's like me saying "if they "if they allow people to change the color of the interface i'm so out of here"...wha?!?!? Who gives a flying F what other people do in the game if it has absolutely zero impact on you. Being forced to go through tedious steps to form a group DOES have an negative impact on my enjoyment. You currently have the system you want and not a single one of us is trying to remove it. We are only asking that an ADDITIONAL system be added to accomidate our play styles and busy lives...

 

people keep talking about how LFD creates a-holes...i think the a-holes are people who demand that a feature be left out of a game (again a feature that has NO bearing on them) because they personaly don't like it/won't use it/don't see it's point. That is some real a-hole anti-community stuff. I'm not trying to deny you ANYTHING...yet you are trying to deny me.

 

I already answered that question before seeing your reply, but.. I might as well answer again. becasue the tool ruins, YES ruins the game. and YES, it affects everyone. random grouping tool doesn't create ******es. it merely gives them free reign. ******es exist everywhere, but the knowledge that they might not be able to group in a future? keeps them in line.

 

a lot of us have busy lives. and maybe if your life is so busy that you don't want to be social in a social game, the maybe this is not the game for you?

 

P.S. I just finished a heroic quest. you know how long it took me to find a group for it? 5 minutes. at 1:30 am in the morning server time no less (I have weird schedule). becasue i'm NOT an ******e and becasue gasp, i'm not allergic to talking to people once in a while.

[Deavyin]

With LFD i would be forced to use it in some way. Many would use it just because of lazyness, many will use it as it remains the only way to get into a group and more and more players would use it because they will get, most times not politely, asked to join LFD that has been created just for that purpose.

I remeber that was the case in WoW once LFD came out :S

So, yes, if i have to choose between being forced to do it in a way which i don't like, then i prefer others to do it the way i like. Basically it doesn't change, someone would not be happy: Wait and see what Bioware thinks about this matter, everyone will have to do Bioware's way anyway.

 

 

2 points

 

1. no one is forcing you to do anything...what you said in the passage i quoted is "people will be asked to join a LFD that has been created"...that's not the same as being forced. You don't want to join a group that was created via LFD tool...don't...done...solved...finished...owned... i'm still not seeing how you have been forced to do anything.

 

2. bioware is a business. They may or may not want a a LFD tool. In the end, it all comes down to subs and money. They are owned by EA and EA wants them to produce. They spent a **** load of money making this game and they need to make it back. If people drop subs, they lose money and that's bad. Look at how many MMO's have come out in the past couple years claiming to be WoW killers and have, ultimately, failed to do that (or remain viable). I don't know if this will be the death note for SWTOR but I know that, once I reach 50, if there isn't a LFD implemented soon and I find myself sitting on the fleet spamming chat, I will cancel my sub and move on to other pastures.

[Deavyin]

if you want to be in any way competitive or god forbid don't have a guild or friends who raid? yes. you were forced to. if you wanted to join a raiding guild? yes you were forced to. and its gotten so bad that Blizzard started designing encounters AROUND USING ADDONS.

 

so, I'm sorry, but your logic of "don't want them, don't use them" doesn't wash.

 

whenever a feature is implemented that affects multiplayer? it affects everyone, whether they like to or not.

 

 

 

OMG, no...sorry, no no no. No one ever forced you to use addons. If you weren't competent enough at playing the game with addons then you simply just aren't good enough. You are basically saying that players should be gimped because they aren't playing at your reduced level. That doesn't hold water.

 

secondly: all blizzard encounters can be completed without addons. In fact, there are people on this very thread complaining that addons make the game too easy. Are you suggesting that addons made the game more difficult for people who choose not to use them? Which is it?

[Deavyin]

I already answered that question before seeing your reply, but.. I might as well answer again. becasue the tool ruins, YES ruins the game. and YES, it affects everyone. random grouping tool doesn't create ******es. it merely gives them free reign. ******es exist everywhere, but the knowledge that they might not be able to group in a future? keeps them in line.

 

a lot of us have busy lives. and maybe if your life is so busy that you don't want to be social in a social game, the maybe this is not the game for you?

 

P.S. I just finished a heroic quest. you know how long it took me to find a group for it? 5 minutes. at 1:30 am in the morning server time no less (I have weird schedule). becasue i'm NOT an ******e and becasue gasp, i'm not allergic to talking to people once in a while.

 

i'll boil my response down so that it is as concise as possible. LFD Tool, based on your logic, ruins nothing. You never have to use it. You can continue to find groups by being a nice, well meaning social person and you will never EVER run into any a-holes.

 

simple as that. Absolutely, 100 percent, simple as that.

[Olzmo]

I already answered that question before seeing your reply, but.. I might as well answer again. becasue the tool ruins, YES ruins the game. and YES, it affects everyone. random grouping tool doesn't create ******es. it merely gives them free reign. ******es exist everywhere, but the knowledge that they might not be able to group in a future? keeps them in line.

 

a lot of us have busy lives. and maybe if your life is so busy that you don't want to be social in a social game, the maybe this is not the game for you?

 

P.S. I just finished a heroic quest. you know how long it took me to find a group for it? 5 minutes. at 1:30 am in the morning server time no less (I have weird schedule). becasue i'm NOT an ******e and becasue gasp, i'm not allergic to talking to people once in a while.

Practically, you really don't have to talk to people even in the current system to get into groups. You just have to relay a single piece of information about your current status (which is "I'm willing to form a party ...") by pressing buttons on your keboard and hope that an appropriate person sees your message. This is such a perfunctory task that I see it absurd there is no possibility to let the game compile a party for you. And no, even if some players say the essence of having fun in a MMO game is the minimum, vapid socialization required to form a party, it does not mean that it'd be so for everyone. Just saying.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Olzmo

[Kaercha]

The idea is, it works like this.

 

 

As you level, you meet people questing, or doing heroic quests, etc. You chat it up while you play together. You add them to your friends list, or perhaps invite them to your guild. Later on, you want to do a FP. You are a dps. You pop open your friends list, grab one each, tank, heals, and dps from the people you have previously grouped with. Ask them if they'd like to run, maybe they do, maybe they don't, any spot you can't fill from your friends/guild list, you ask about in general. (FYI, my average time to construct a group with this system is about 3 minutes.) Everyone has a great time, because everyone knows everyone else, your friends, who only knew you, now know each other, add each other to their friends lists, and then when you're not around, they'll be pinging each other to put groups together. That one random dps you had to grab from general is now in your network. Maybe he has friends he'll introduce you to. NETWORKING!

 

The reality:

 

You spacebar your way to level 50 in less than a week, have no one on your friends list because you didn't group for anything because, psssh, that just slows you down. Spamming general chat isn't getting you a group, because all those dead baby anal jokes you made earlier are still floating in everyone's minds, so you pop in a WZ and yell at your teammates, who summarily add you to their ignore lists because you don't like to be yelled at when they're level ten and have never done a warzone before. But hey, at least you got to DO something instead of begging one of the 20 people on your server who did the same thing as you to do some max level flashpoints. Then, you remember that WoW let you play no matter how you acted to other people, so you rush to the forums and proclaim that this game is dead, not because of your inability to build and invest in a social network (Because really, who wants to put that much effort into a damn videogame, gawsh), but because it doesn't auto group you with people who have no idea how vile your sense of humor is, or that you don't speak English, or that you bought SpicyNutzors powerleveling servcie, etc, etc, whatever the case may be that you find your friends list and guild list empty during your normal play times.

 

 

 

 

In short, gentlemen, what we have here is a split in the playerbase. You can fall into camp A, who believe social networking is the heart and soul of a successful MMORPG, or you fall into Camp B, where you believe that being able to play how you want, when you want, is the heart and soul of an online game.

 

If I used any words that you don't understand, copy/paste them into http://www.google.com, then add the word "def" after it, and you'll get the idea.

[halbarz]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

And again one of these threads.

 

ANd yes here i'll say it AGAIN.

 

Swtor has a LFG system just learn to use !!

 

type /who or press G => go to WHO => LFG note ( comment ) => and tataaaaa => you are in a LFG system.

 

ps: i aint in the pro or contra camp for a lfg tool, but before people post something pls check the game what it offers and learn to use it.

 

ofc now you can say almost nobody is useing it, well if you start useing it thats alteast one more and it will crow

 

regards.

[CelticPete]

no your analogy certainly does not...the community does not go downhill because of a simple LFD tool. how in gods name does a tool designed for making finding a group easier for people somehow turn a community into a bunch of a-holes?

 

It's not so much that it converts people to something different - it just encourages what you would consider 'bad qualities' to come out. Its actually very interesting and based on several variables.

 

The first variable is 'speed to gearing.'

 

First off - and this is something that few people talk about - and people like you probably haven't even thought about is that a cross server LFD tool SPEEDS GEAR ACQUISITION.

 

Why? Well less time wasted finding a group. Less time wasted traveling to said dungeon (in WoW anyway). And finally any difficulties that random people might have in dealing with said dungeon are adjusted away. (this is inevitable for psychological reasons from a game design perspective - you can't have people failing on alot of even random attempts and expect people to play your game).

 

Anyway because gear acquisition has been sped up the designers will then seek to slow this gear acquisition via a token system which introduces superior gear and 'devalue' the dungeon drops. This allow the designer to carefully regulate the acquisition of gear.

 

Once this has been accomplished - the end result is that players have to 'grind' instances. Because of this efficency in completing the instance becomes paramount. So 'extra' interaction is frowned upon and rutheless 'gear hunting' behaviour (like leaving after your drop does not come) becomes even more commonplace.

 

You end up accepting a 'less then great' experience and don't bother to wait around for your friends because grinds take time but not the best crew...

 

But that's just one variable. The second factor is what could be called

 

"Game play feedback" As I have pointed out in another thread - 'community' is not the right word.

 

When you form your own groups - little systems develop. People keep extensive lists of good players and players they like to group with. And they remember and ignore the ones who gave them problems. Good players are rewarded with easy quick groups - even if they play 'popular' roles like DPS. Bad players have to improve their game or group with other patient players.

 

Sometimes you have to bring in 'unknown' guys just to get things going (much like a random dungeon finder does) but you at least know what you are getting into.

 

Random finders - are well random. So all bets are off. Again this is something that most people don't really think about but the people in the random finder become immune to those pressures. There suddenly is no social system at all. The people you get are just random.

 

It's not just about ninja looting or going AFK but about trying to become better players so you can get in groups quicker - or being more personable - or more polite. This pressure makes everyones experience more pleasurable because it works in concert with how most people would like to play.

 

None of that works with a cross server random dungeon finder. If you are tank and want to bail after that first boss that drops your drop. No big. You can ALWAYS get another group INSTANTLY. And who cares actually you are a pretty good tank (you might say to yourself) they should be 'lucky' to have you.

 

I could go on and on. But the tl;dr version is that cross server random dungeon finders/battle ground finders/raid finders end up actually FORCING people to group with random people who don't give a damn about them and who are under absolutely no pressure to play optimally. This makes for a rather miserable experience.

 

And before you claim that Blizzard or any game "needs' such a thing - keep in mind that World of Warcraft hit 11 million subscribers during The Burning Crusade - when no such system existed and they haven't hit 12 million even now..

 

Also let me touch on the other 'excuse' people use - the just do what you did before theory. Ya know the 'its just a tool you don't have to use it.' it doesn't really work once things become a grind.

 

WoW can't undo its screw up - they now have to cater to the LCD crowd who can't be bothered to try to play well. They have resigned themselves to losing the good, personable and social players to other games and have put in a system that rewards the anti-social grinder. But that doesn't mean SWTOR should follow suit and do the same thing. They likely thought the same way as did the OP. They didn't think it through - and I would have never imagined the host of negative consquences that came from it - so I don't blame them.

 

But there are gamers who want to play limited time - but have extra special experiences when they engage in group events.

 

I hope SWTOR remains that kind of game. You aren't going to have that kind of game with a LFD cross server setup. The kind of game you will get is formed by those mechanics. Ther eis nothing 'bad' about wow players. You match their mechanics you will get the exact same game experience and social enviroment.

 

It's people that think just because this game has the name 'star wars' in it they can't have the same issues that WoW does.

[BladderSplatter]

Did a 2 man quest on my imperial agent, and made a friend. Found a group on my sith inquisitor for settling debts, made some friends. We continued doing some more group quests later that day.

 

Using LFD on my warlock, makes no friends, everyone is quite and if you do make a friend. You won't ever see them again anyway.

 

Tried to find a group through /2, no one wanted to join, they told me to use the LFD, one person even thought i was completely new to the game.

I haven't made a single friend in wow (apart from guild or pre-RRF) in years. But I've made quite a few in SWTOR in a couple of days.

Try being social urself and see if someone answers.

 

 

edit: And let's not forget that everyone just takes what they want in LFD because they can get away with it.

 

and btw, I'm all for a LFG system but as long as it's not cross server or find random group and then get ported I'm okay with it.

Edited December 30, 2011 by BladderSplatter

[kineticdamage]

Bored at work, been poring over the forums. One point of contention I've run across frequently is the idea of a LFG tool, wether or not it should be implemented. I'm in the pro-LFG tool camp myself, but the argument goes that somehow the tool destroys player community, makes people less social, etc.

 

What?

 

Do you consider it socializing to ask (or spam) people in general chat (or whispers) if they want to run an instance? Is it the time spent before the party is filled out? I'm just looking for a more in-depth explanation of what people mean when they claim dungeon finders ruin a server's sense of community. I've played MMOs with and without LFG tools, and for the life of me, I can't ever recall those without having this vaunted sense of belonging the anti-tool camp purports.

 

Let's say, an automated, teleporting, grouping tool won't help to socialise either. So chosing the lesser of two evils between that and trying to spark an ounce of dialog with silent people would be no LFG tool.

 

Also, saying "do you find spamming the gen chat is socialising ?" is reducing, and very short sighted. But it's logical that people who don't care about socialisation won't see past this point, in a sense.

People have to stop to be dumb and only see the top layer of things. They have to think about every consequence having a LFD tool or not will spark.

 

Deep, bad social behaviours are never born from an immediate feature, whatever environment it is. They're born from a train of consequences.

 

Sociology is a job, actually.

Edited December 30, 2011 by kineticdamage

[halbarz]

i have met some wonderfull people on my server by just looking for a group in chat, did alot of runs with them already now, few Taral V, Mealstorm Prison several times and ... War games. i dont need a LFG tool ^^

 

thank you bioware btw for not giving in ^^

[acheros]

i have met some wonderfull people on my server by just looking for a group in chat, did alot of runs with them already now, few Taral V, Mealstorm Prison several times and ... War games. i dont need a LFG tool ^^

 

thank you bioware btw for not giving in ^^

 

I love it when people say "Oh, -I- don't need it, so its entirely useless"

 

Seriously, are MMO gamers really incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves?

[kineticdamage]

I love it when people say "Oh, -I- don't need it, so its entirely useless"

 

Seriously, are MMO gamers really incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves?

 

Opposite : it's because they have to deal with how majority behave when handled automated tools that they don't want an LFG tool.

See my post above.

 

And for the record, pro-LFG are the ones who think about themselves more, as they just don't want to bother talking to people to make a group.

Edited December 30, 2011 by kineticdamage

[Hockeyhacker]

I don't feel its so much that people are against a LFG tool, I think its more of the fact people are against a PvE LFG CROSS SERVER tool... a LFG tool does not hurt PvE experience if its on same server so that people at least have some sense of consequence for being a d**che.

 

As for me Cross server PvP LFG cool cross server only helps for those tools for PvP, same server LFG tools for flashpoints cool that's useful with minimal damage to the experience since most people have at least some sense of "being an *** can end up making it hard to get a group in the future". Cross server LFG PvE keep that away, that allows the people on the edge between "be good and get groups easier" or "be an *** and take things even don't need just because Ill probably never see these people again" to choose the later.

 

To sum up

Cross Server PvP= Great, bring it

Same Server PvE= Good, bring it

Cross Server PvE= Hit and Miss, not worth the risk please leave out.

[ShotByBothSides]

I love it when people say "Oh, -I- don't need it, so its entirely useless"

 

Seriously, are MMO gamers really incapable of thinking of anyone but themselves?

 

Sadly not!

 

How about an LFM tool, same server, no auto teleporting to quest/mission and where the player who posts up the LFM is leader and can pick from any that apply?

[acheros]

Opposite : it's because they have to deal with how majority behave when handled automated tools that they don't want an LFG tool.

See my post above.

 

And for the record, pro-LFG are the ones who think about themselves more, as they just don't want to bother talking to people to make a group.

 

Thats not how majority behaves when handed automated tools. Thats how people behave on the internet..

 

also, i've noticed it alot more from anti-LFGs

 

"Oh, well -I- can find a group just fine, so the problem must not exist, because i'm 12 and can't begin to comprehend what other people are going through"

[Krawzer]

Something similar to WoW's BC/Early WotLK tool.

 

You enter yourself as LFG for specific dungeons and people who are LFG or LFM can see you in there. From there on its up to the players to talk to the other people on the list and invite them and get to the dungeon. Nothing is automatic, nothing is cross-server, nothing teleports you to the place.

 

That's what I would like.