Onslaught - The Choice At The Ending

[Ylliarus]

That could work quite well I wonder why it was never done and there was only one wrath at an time(excluding the retired wrath's).

By the way sith lords working together was not an safe idea if they where of equal rank. For example Darth Angraal and Darth Baras while working to make the treaty of corusant tried to kill each other during the negotiations. The negations where an success but with injuries. Imagine if they killed each other by mistake that would affect the negotiation.

 

The position of Emperor's Wrath was initially made uniquely for Lord Scourge and no one else, by Vitiate. Only after Scourge betrayed the Emperor, did he instruct the Hand to find a new Wrath, which became the Sith Warrior. But after Vitiate abandoned the Empire and later was destroyed, there wasn't really a reason for the position to remain exclusively for 1 Sith, I'd say. Especially under Emperor Acina or Vowrawn, who naturally would want to form their own legions of loyal followers. Just like they reform the Hand, they could have changed the position of Empire's Wrath to be given to multiple Sith, not just 1 exclusively.

 

And as to Sith Lords working together but being rivals, that's the Sith way. Rivalry and conflict are an integral part of the Sith code, seeking to constantly improve oneself and put others into chains while freeing oneself from them. Sith can't be true equals or can't be forced to regard themselves as such, because then they'd make the same mistakes as the Brotherhood under Lord Kaan did. Sith have to have rivalries and conflict with one another to strengthen the Dark Side and their connection to it.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Ylliarus

[Darth-Obvious]

Other people have an better understanding? On what metric?

 

How about the fact that you thought the Sith Warrior was supposed to be(come) the most powerful Sith in the galaxy.

 

How about the fact that you don't/didn't know/understand/realize that you still had shackles as the Alliance Commander.

 

How about the fact that you after all this time still don't know that the choices in this game boil down to 1) Good/Polite Response 2) Ask Question/Make Joke/Flirt 3) Negative/Aggressive Response.

 

And that's just naming a few things that you've demonstrated over the course of this thread.

 

Really we are playing an sith what is so hard to understand from the day the sith warrior came on Korriban his quest was one of power and up until chapter 3 it was still one of power.

 

And yet the Warrior's goal was never to become the most powerful Sith in the galaxy like you thought.

 

How is the fact that few know the warrior killed an voice of the emperor not an feat?

 

A feat in terms of status. Basically nobody knows the Wrath did that. The Inquisitor becomes part of the Dark Council, the Smuggler becomes the Voidwolf, the Knight becomes known as a hero/savior.

 

That was what I argued against

 

That wasn't what I was talking about though.

 

The Warrior is infamous the knight is famous but what I do not get why does it matter in therms of power?

 

I wasn't talking about those things in terms of power.

 

Do you think because people know the knight killed the voice of the emperor and do not know the warrior did it also makes the knight an more powerful physical and force combatant?

 

No, that was never what I was talking about.

 

My point was what was the plan when Malgus came back from recovering as what they know until that point was that Malgus was injured

check from 2:10. Will he have had an change of title or what?

 

No see this is another clear point where you obviously got the story wrong. I know about the Malgus epilogue, but that doesn't change what the Emperor/Empress said. You were flat out wrong about what you said & then you ask a question like "Other people have an better understanding? On what metric?" I was able to clearly show that Emperor/Empress defines Malgus as being out of the picture for the time being. You said/believed that wasn't the case even thought that's exactly what the dialogue of the Emperor/Empress states, so how could you possibly think you have a better understanding of the story when you make mistakes like that?

[Raphael_diSanto]

This is a problem the Jedi classes have had since launch in terms of storytelling.

 

I mentioned this in another post but there are a number of moments in the vanilla storyline that break down as such...

 

Light Side Choice - "You saved a great many people. You succeeded where the Jedi Council could not. You are to be commended for your services. We're promoting you to the rank of Jedi Knight."

 

Dark Side Choice - "Your actions lead to needless deaths! How could you have done such a thing? The Jedi Council can not condone such behavior. We're promoting you to the rank of Jedi Knight."

 

...like wait, what? I get equally rewarded for both choices? And the reason is obviously because the game's plot dictates that said character has to become a Jedi Knight therefore you're going to get promoted even if/when you continue to make choices that would get you kicked out the order.

 

During beta, if you were a DS Knight, Satele refused to grant you the title of master at the end of the story (and the republic army gave you the title of general instead - Something like "We don't care if this person doesn't fit your model of Jedi, they've killed lots of our enemies, so we're going to make them a general")

 

But like the decision to not space companions you don't like - that was removed from the game because DS Knight players complained about not getting the Master title.

[Goreshaga]

When we say physical power we're talking about Force Power, not literal raw strength. The Warrior & Knight excel in those areas by design.

 

In terms of Force Power, the Dark Side (force ghost bound) SI is clearly the most powerful of the 4 force classes.

Ah ok, so a slight misunderstanding from me, and we actually agree.

Yup, i also think the Si is the most powerful with the Force, followed by the JC and the JK is the best fighter, followed by the SW.

 

Honestly of the 8 classes the Warrior probably has the worst outcome at the end of Chapter 3 when you consider that the Warrior goes through all this stuff to become the Emperor's Wrath just as the Knight ends up defeating the Emperor

It's even worse if you consider the SW became the Wrath only because Scourge left with the JK actually

 

Also the warrior did kill an entity like the sith emperor well his voice called the the voiceof the sith emperor and no it was not Darth Baras. It was the voice of the sith emperor and it was the reason the knight even managed to kill another voice. People forget that both the knight an the warrior killed an voice of the emperor. The knight does not surpass the warrior in that feat. Also it was the voice that subdued the jedi knight and the strike team that the warrior killed.

The Voice the SW killed was trapped on Voss for pretty much the entirety of the 3rd chapter and was fighting for control over the body with Sel-Makor, so that Voice was probably severly weakened at that time.

The Voice the JK killed was a brand new one, but the Emperor spirit was weakened by what happened on Voss.

 

Though, the SW defeating a Voice is never acknowledged in any other class story, while the JK defeating the Emperor is acknowledged at the very least in the SW story with one of the mail from the Hand saying the Jedi defeated the Emperor while the SW was taking care of Baras.

And later, several NPCs talk to the JK about him/her defeating the Emperor (mainly Marr and Jorgan, Doc, Gnost-Dural and probably other that don't come to mind right now)

Edited November 7, 2019 by Goreshaga

[Darth-Obvious]

During beta, if you were a DS Knight, Satele refused to grant you the title of master at the end of the story (and the republic army gave you the title of general instead - Something like "We don't care if this person doesn't fit your model of Jedi, they've killed lots of our enemies, so we're going to make them a general")

 

But like the decision to not space companions you don't like - that was removed from the game because DS Knight players complained about not getting the Master title.

 

The DS JK ending still plays out the exact same way with the same dialogue that's been there since beta with you receiving the rank of General instead of Master, & in your in-game titles you got General instead of Master, however like you said people complained so the in-game General title was removed & both LS & DS JKs got the (in-game) title of Master.

 

The big complaint about killing companions came in the form of Quinn as many Sith Warriors killed him off leaving themselves without a companion, but it was my understanding that Bioware had a plan in place to get substitute companions if killed off companions, but the sub comps hadn't been implemented at that point. From what I understand HK-51 was going to be the replacement for any DPS companion that was killed off while another droid or Treek was supposed to be the replacement for any Tank/Healer you killed.

 

One of the other things from beta that got changed was that originally all gear could be modded, but people complained that it was too complicated, so only end game gear & the orange shells become modable in the final release.

[adormitul]

How about the fact that you thought the Sith Warrior was supposed to be(come) the most powerful Sith in the galaxy.

 

How about the fact that you don't/didn't know/understand/realize that you still had shackles as the Alliance Commander.

 

How about the fact that you after all this time still don't know that the choices in this game boil down to 1) Good/Polite Response 2) Ask Question/Make Joke/Flirt 3) Negative/Aggressive Response.

 

And that's just naming a few things that you've demonstrated over the course of this thread.

Because that is what the story shows the sith warrior is an power trip story logically the end will be the most powerful sith. He is an sith wanting what every other sith wants to be powerful the most powerful. An sith journey is to be the most powerful and the sith warrior is an exception.What do you think an sith wants in the end?

Of course I understood I had shackles as the Alliance Commander because as you pointed out our responses are limited but as I pointed many times you had the option to actually act as an commander as an leader like sending the gravestone to hunt patrol ships, or punishing failure with death or suggesting course of actions. When Malavai Quin betrayed us in the sith warrior story we had no choice but to take him back. At least now we can kill him and many others if we want for good or not so good reasons. We get more freedom in our choices many are fluff choices but still choices.

We can do leader decisions hell we can kill Aric Jordan for failing an mission which we where supposed to take part of as an important element. But instead we got sidetracked and let his team die because we failed to show up. We take no responsibility and can push the blame one him now that is an example of being unchained. Nothing chains the commander there nobody to hold him responsible stop him from putting the blame on someone else for that short moment we are freaking Palpatine. There are some things that people missed on how much authority the commander could wield.

The Voice the SW killed was trapped on Voss for pretty much the entirety of the 3rd chapter and was fighting for control over the body with Sel-Makor, so that Voice was probably severly weakend at that time.

The Voice the JK killed was a brand new one, but the Emperor spirit was weakened by what happened on Voss.

 

Though, the SW defeating a Voice is never acknowledged in any other class story, while the JK defeating the Emperor is acknowledged at the very least in the SW story with one of the mail from the Hand saying the Jedi defeated the Emperor while the SW was taking care of Baras.

And later, several NPCs talk to the JK about him/her defeating the Emperor (mainly Marr and Jorgan, Doc, Gnost-Dural and probably other that don't come to mind right now)

I know its never acknowledged but it still happened right? The warrior killed an voice of the emperor you now the voice that owned JK before but in conflict with sel makor. If it happened and its not known and it does not affect prowess how does JK killing an voice that is weaker but not in conflict with dark spirit but well known that it happened makes it so JK is an better combatant?

Why does acknowledgment matters here why do to equal combat feat done by 2 warriors makes 1 better then the other in the combat prowess?

Why does it matter in any way actually?

[Goreshaga]

I know its never acknowledged but it still happened right? The warrior killed an voice of the emperor you now the voice that owned JK before but in conflict with sel makor. If it happened and its not known and it does not affect prowess how does JK killing an voice that is weaker but not in conflict with dark spirit but well known that it happened makes it so JK is an better combatant?

Why does acknowledgment matters here why do to equal combat feat done by 2 warriors makes 1 better then the other in the combat prowess?

Why does it matter in any way actually?

There's a big difference between the end of JK's chapter 2 and the Voss part of the SW's story.

 

When the Jedi team confronted the Emperor, he was perfectly healthy, had not spend months on Voss while fighting for control over the body with a powerful DS entity.

And Vitiate had absolutely no will to loose at that moment and knew the Jedi were coming and was waiting for them.

When the SW came to him on Voss, Vitiate himself asked the SW to destroy that Voice because he was trapped here and could not leave as long as this body was alive. He wanted this Voice to die.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Goreshaga

[adormitul]

There a big difference between the end of JK's chapter 2 and the Voss part of the SW's story.

 

When the Jedi team confronted the Emperor, he was perfectly healthy, had not spend months on Voss while fighting for control over the body with a powerful DS entity.

And Vitiate had absolutely not will to loose at that moment and knew the Jedi were coming and was waiting for them.

When the SW came to him on Voss, Vitiate himself asked the SW to destroy that Voice because he was trapped here and could not leave as long as this body was alive. He wanted this Voice to die.

 

Of course I do not deny that the voice of voss was weaker then the one that owned the JK strike team in chapter 2 it did fought with the dark side entity of Voss all that time and yes he wanted to let that voice die but it was not let by the voss entity and when he lowered his defense the voss entity took control of the body and the power that was left. What I wanted to say that it was at about the same level as the one JK fought and beat which was weaker then the voss one at its prime.

[Ylliarus]

It's of course nice to see this discussion happening, but do try to stay on topic in regard to the fact that this is a thread about the choice we get presented with at the end of Onslaught Not to say that this topic shouldn't be discussed, but try not to threadjack the subject too much! Just a friendly reminder, nothing more

[Darth-Obvious]

Because that is what the story shows the sith warrior is an power trip story logically the end will be the most powerful sith.

 

No, the game doesn't do that or even hint at that.

 

Why would an MMO, something that largely has to remain static in terms of how the world is presented ever do that?

 

Why would the Warrior desire to become the Emperor's Wrath and serve the Emperor if they're more powerful than the Emperor?

 

If your character is the most powerful character in the galaxy who would present any sort of challenge or threat to them? You should know better that with this game being an MMO with an ongoing story, group content, Flashpoints, OPs, etc, that sort of thing can't happen with our characters nor should it.

 

Of course I understood I had shackles as the Alliance Commander

 

Previous posts of yours show that to not be the case.

 

When Malavai Quin betrayed us in the sith warrior story we had no choice but to take him back. At least now we can kill him and many others if we want for good or not so good reasons. We get more freedom in our choices many are fluff choices but still choices.

 

You don't get more freedom in your choices. The large majority of LS/DS choices in KOTFE/KOTET are "Spare" or "Kill" The vanilla game was the same way. The Quinn situation is a rare exception because of people who complained during the beta. Stop pretending or acting like the choices in KOTFE/KOTET are different or more involved, because they're not.

 

The Agent class story is really the only significant chunk of story where your choices matter & have more varied outcomes than anything else in the game. KOTFE/KOTET doesn't even come close to matching what the Agent story provides.

 

The reality is that you liked KOTFE/KOTET's storyline better, but rather than just saying that you keep making things up about it in order to try and constantly validate yourself for feeling that way. Basically "There's no way the vanilla stuff is better than KOTFE, because I didn't like the vanilla story." It's so blatantly obvious that's where you're coming from.

 

We can do leader decisions hell we can kill Aric Jordan for failing an mission

 

That's not leader stuff. You have options like that in the vanilla story content. There are plenty of characters you can kill in similar story situations for similar reasons.

 

We take no responsibility and can push the blame one him now that is an example of being unchained. Nothing chains the commander there nobody to hold him responsible stop him from putting the blame on someone else for that short moment we are freaking Palpatine. There are some things that people missed on how much authority the commander could wield.

 

This is stuff in your head. It's simply how you view the situation.

 

If it happened and its not known and it does not affect prowess how does JK killing an voice that is weaker but not in conflict with dark spirit but well known that it happened makes it so JK is an better combatant?

 

I didn't say anything about the JK being a better combatant.

 

It's insanely clear that you have an overwhelming bias towards the Sith Warrior. You clearly think they're the best class & you don't like the idea of the other classes being better than the Warrior in any way shape or form. The Warrior has to be better than them all or at least on equal footing, but there's no possible way the Warrior could be worse off in any way than one of the other classes.

 

You keep going off in these directions that nobody is ever talking about because you're way too over eager to defend your precious Sith Warrior & how they can do no wrong or be inferior in any way.

 

My chains are broken why the hell would my sith warrior would wanna be in them again. The same applies to the sith sorcere. And he other 2 make no sense to join what is there to gain they have more now then they had in the empire which was an license to kill basically and nothing.

 

"Anyone that sided with their original factions is stupid. I'm amazing & a total free spirit because I decided to stick with my faction. There's totally no restrictions, burdens, or responsibilities that come with being a faction leader. I'm totally free to make my own choices, even though everyone in & outside of my faction tells me what to do & I go do it displaying that I don't in fact have any real sense of power or authority over the way things play out."

[RakiaTime]

Im happy it was a choice and not forced, i would have stopped playing my Republic characters if i was forced to go back, out of my 15 i think 2-3 will be going back to the Empire, everyone else is staying independent

[Darth-Obvious]

It's of course nice to see this discussion happening, but do try to stay on topic in regard to the fact that this is a thread about the choice we get presented with at the end of Onslaught Not to say that this topic shouldn't be discussed, but try not to threadjack the subject too much! Just a friendly reminder, nothing more

 

To think that this thread got so hung up on the Sith Warrior of all things

 

I'm curious how of the Agent's class choices are reflected in Onslaught. The Agent has got to be a little bit tougher to deal with from a narrative perspective if they acknowledge all the different possible outcomes they had offered to them.

 

I'm mostly curious to see how the Jedi Order gets rebuilt though. Up until the JK's ending in Onslaught I had completely forgotten there was no longer a Jedi Order or that they hadn't re-established themselves. Seeing characters like Gnost, Tau, and Arn around makes it seem/feel like the Jedi exist in the same capacity as the Sith but then the end of Onslaught is a stark reminder that the Jedi are basically like 4 people right now.

 

I hope there's more stuff like Lana & Gnost's conversation & that the new order has a little more grey areas to it. Would be interesting to explore having Lana & Scourge as part of the new order, what other Jedi think of that. Would also be interesting to deal with your JK & Kira or Lana being in an open/public romance given the Jedi's stance on romantic entanglements.

[Ylliarus]

Im happy it was a choice and not forced, i would have stopped playing my Republic characters if i was forced to go back, out of my 15 i think 2-3 will be going back to the Empire, everyone else is staying independent

 

I get the feeling, but from the opposite side. If my characters would have been forced to remain independent and as part of the Alliance, I think that actually might have pushed me to unsub, as I was really, thoroughly done with being part of the Alliance. So, I am very glad too that it was a choice and not a forced path the fact that you are forced to make the Alliance and be part of if in KotFE and KotET is primarily why I hate those two expansions so much.

[Raphael_diSanto]

The DS JK ending still plays out the exact same way with the same dialogue that's been there since beta with you receiving the rank of General instead of Master, & in your in-game titles you got General instead of Master, however like you said people complained so the in-game General title was removed & both LS & DS JKs got the (in-game) title of Master.

 

The big complaint about killing companions came in the form of Quinn as many Sith Warriors killed him off leaving themselves without a companion, but it was my understanding that Bioware had a plan in place to get substitute companions if killed off companions, but the sub comps hadn't been implemented at that point. From what I understand HK-51 was going to be the replacement for any DPS companion that was killed off while another droid or Treek was supposed to be the replacement for any Tank/Healer you killed.

 

One of the other things from beta that got changed was that originally all gear could be modded, but people complained that it was too complicated, so only end game gear & the orange shells become modable in the final release.

 

Yeah, I remember that being all Quinn, LOL.

 

But now we have a billion comps, LOL

 

I was always disappointed by the change, because personally, my DS JK would have preferred the title of General instead of Master.

[Ylliarus]

Yeah, I remember that being all Quinn, LOL.

 

But now we have a billion comps, LOL

 

I was always disappointed by the change, because personally, my DS JK would have preferred the title of General instead of Master.

 

It would have made a DS JK seem more worthwhile indeed, or at least, more intricate. Now it feels as if there are no consequences to being a Dark Sided member of the Jedi Order.

[Darth-Obvious]

It would have made a DS JK seem more worthwhile indeed, or at least, more intricate. Now it feels as if there are no consequences to being a Dark Sided member of the Jedi Order.

 

Yeah, unfortunately, both Jedi stories were written as if people would only make LS choices. Most of the DS choices seem completely out of place or out of character for the way the stories are written/structured.

[Gilrenna]

I'm doing a mix on my characters since I don't know exactly what's going to happen. Some will go back to the Republic, some to the Empire, and some will stay Alliance. I like being the leader of the Alliance, but how will this affect the story going forward? Will I miss out on some things because I'm not Republic or Empire? I don't know if I'll like the results or not. I hate not knowing if I'm screwing up my favorite characters or not.

 

And for the ones that ditch the Alliance, shouldn't my companion list go back to my original crew? It's already weird having companions in my list that have told me they're leaving the Alliance due to my faction choices. Why do I still have these? And why can I still level up my Alliance specialists, one of which has already left? Shouldn't all that go away now for non-Alliance characters?

[Trobon]

I'm doing a mix on my characters since I don't know exactly what's going to happen. Some will go back to the Republic, some to the Empire, and some will stay Alliance. I like being the leader of the Alliance, but how will this affect the story going forward? Will I miss out on some things because I'm not Republic or Empire? I don't know if I'll like the results or not. I hate not knowing if I'm screwing up my favorite characters or not.

 

And for the ones that ditch the Alliance, shouldn't my companion list go back to my original crew? It's already weird having companions in my list that have told me they're leaving the Alliance due to my faction choices. Why do I still have these? And why can I still level up my Alliance specialists, one of which has already left? Shouldn't all that go away now for non-Alliance characters?

 

Well you have two separate things here. Yes, people who have left should probably not be listed, but the alliance as a whole is still a thing even if you go back to your faction. The alliance gets converted into something directly serving the Republic or Empire, but you are still the head of it. So either you lead the Alliance or the Empire's Hand/Task Force which is comprised of the Alliance.

[Jnaathra]

Sith Warrior

 

Slight necro reply as I am just now returning to the game and have reached this point. I've sat here for about an hour trying to make a choice and come up with a reason to rationalize my decision.

 

I am going to return to the Empire and in my mind the reason is a simple one. It is better to be essentially second in command in the Empire than to be at the helm of a dying Alliance. Both the Gravestone and the Eternal Fleet are gone. Without them your space force and ability to project power is diminished. You have no shipyards and no way to replicate that technology.

 

Without that tech your soldiers are now at risk and you have less of them to begin with. The Empire and the Republic both have essentially endless troops and you do not.

 

As such it seems better to integrate back into the Empire and look for a moment (if one ever comes again) to try and elevate you and yours to the top again.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Jnaathra

[RameiArashi]

Pay closer attention to the dialogue and mail. Neither the Republic nor the Empire have anything like the troops they once had because A) The Eternal Empire killed millions on both sides and B) the Eternal Empire stole most of their resources. Neither side can support the military forces they once had. Which is why they both want the Alliance on their side.

 

Depending on which side you are one side will eventually be able to produce enough food to actually feed their military.

The other side will slowly starve.

 

Lana was wrong. You could have keep the Alliance neutral and watched the two sides annihilate each other. Then move in to save their people from their corrupt war mongering leaders.

[rumpol]

How is the Alliance able to supply itself with resources? It owns one planet, Iokath is disputed. Zakuul is in a mess and pulled away from the Alliance. It has next to no fleet and has lost the Gravestone. The Alliance is in a very fragile position. If either the Empire or the Republic decided to attack, the Alliance would simply crumble.

[ImmortalLowlife]

I'm glad we got the options. Some of my characters went back to their factions (Jedi and Sith) My smugglers, agents, and bounty hunters stayed independent. I'm taking a trooper through now. Haven't decided what he'll do when than choice comes.

[Jonseus]

ALERT! SMALL SPOILER WARNING.

 

I'm not quite there yet, but i already had some spoilers from YT channels, and I am still very conflicted on witch path to take. A part of me thinks that going back to the Republic/Sith Empire has a lot of perks and the titles, plus future missions for the Task Force/The Hand would be enjoyable.

On the other hand, what would that mean for the sith or imperial/jedi, and republic characters in the alliance. Plus, Arcann, Koth and Senya who are from Zakuul, they don't fit so well with either faction. Would like a little bit more character developement from them. So far, either choice is neither good or bad (just my personal opinion) and I can't stop thinking about what Valkorion said at the end: "Remember me, when your Alliance burns to ash."

WHAT DID HE MEAN?!

Edited July 22, 2020 by Jonseus
Missed entries!

[phalczen]

ALERT! SMALL SPOILER WARNING.

 

I'm not quite there yet, but i already had some spoilers from YT channels, and I am still very conflicted on witch path to take. A part of me thinks that going back to the Republic/Sith Empire has a lot of perks and the titles, plus future missions for the Task Force/The Hand would be enjoyable.

On the other hand, what would that mean for the sith or imperial/jedi, and republic characters in the alliance. Plus, Arcann, Koth and Senya who are from Zakuul, they don't fit so well with either faction. Would like a little bit more character developement from them. So far, either choice is neither good or bad (just my personal opinion) and I can't stop thinking about what Valkorion said at the end: "Remember me, when your Alliance burns to ash."

WHAT DID HE MEAN?!

 

I believe he meant to imply that the player character is simply not strong enough, in the Force or otherwise, to make the hard decisions to lead a Galaxy. In his mind, he is the best leader ever, a benevolent dictator. Ruthless when he needs to be and generous enough to his people to create utopia. Of course, his people don’t really produce anything, even before Arcann, and their utopia wouldn’t be possible without stealing from the Core.

 

It is possible he foresaw the Order of Zildrog rising or the Machine Gods of Iokath awakening, but I find it unlikely he foresaw the Order of Zildrog but not his own defeat. So really, I think it was mostly just conceit.

[Automnal]

I can't help myself from opining. Also loving how we get this choice; I agonized over it so long the first time, it kicked me back to the character select screen. Sorry if this becomes a ramble.

 

My main (at least I still consider it my main) went back to the Republic, but I felt like I was betraying the trust of a lot of the people who came on to fight for a worthy cause, not get mired in the same old war again. Haven't seen anybody leave (other than that "off camera" frigate crew hightailing it), even though my headcanon says at least some must have, even if they aren't main characters like Aygo or Koth. I'm really tempted to stay independent on one of my Consulars, but I don't see the Alliance having much longevity that way, as others have said. Really tough...

 

The most interesting takeaway for me: I'm not sure there's too much difference in the choice to return to the Republic or stay independent, at least so far. I know nothing of the Imperial side as yet, so "no comment." All the dialogue still seems to be referring to the people residing on Odessen as the Alliance. The Republic's offer seems truly complicated and that makes it delicious: join as a member world? That means the organization is more or less free to remain as it is with the Commander becoming head of state, essentially. But then again, would the Republic expect all the "defected" units and ships that the Alliance has had control of for some years at this point to be folded back into the navy and army or would they be permitted to stay as Odessen's "national guard?" There was one email during KotFE/ET that said the Republic renounced all claim to ships, soldiers and other personnel that joined the Alliance during the war with Zakuul.

 

I like the idea of staying independent, since it's a nice ideal to try and be able to pivot amidst the petty squabbling between the Republic and Empire, choosing to side with whoever does the most to work toward peace, but as others have mentioned, without the Eternal Fleet, how much can they actually accomplish? We're still forced to cling to a faction as an ally to get anything done (at least that's how it's written, in my opinion). I've seen people say that you essentially get labelled "unofficial Jedi" if you reject the offer to become a Jedi Council member, but maybe that's a good thing? I mean one of the threads from KotFE/ET was moving beyond Jedi/Sith, right? Why does it matter? Of course, that depends on how you're playing your characters; some might be deeply offended, others might say "Right, I wasn't Jedi/Sith anymore anyway, piss off."

 

Another problem I have with rejoining the Republic on one of my toons: they are romancing Lana. She has stated that she serves (and loves) the Commander; that the Empire has no more hold on her. Why should this character not change a bit too and say the Jedi aren't all that defines them? Maybe becoming a Gray Jedi is natural in this instance. Of course this is my own heacanon problem, I suppose.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Automnal