PTS Phase 3 - PvP Balance

[EricMusco]

Hey all,

 

Phase 3 is now active on PTS. Please head there and test how balance is feeling in all forms of PvP. Open world, Unranked Warzones, and Ranked Arenas. Please report your findings back into this thread. Some key information we are looking for:

• Does a particular class or spec feel too strong? Too weak?
  
• Do any of the new abilities feel particularly strong? Too weak?
  
• Is there a set bonus that feels too strong? Too weak?
  
• Is there a tactical that feels too strong? Too weak?
  
• Is there a specific set bonus and tactical combination that is over powered?
  

Be as specific in your feedback as possible! The questions above are just for guidance, feel free to pass on any feedback you have.

 

Thanks all!

 

-eric

[Beyrahl]

Well I hope we don't have to grind for things just to test them, there's so much to test.

 

First things I can mention PvP wise.

 

Penetrating blasts splash damage tactical. This THING shreds, it makes marksmanship even better at cleaving without needing much setup. (Throwing dots, aoes, then supressive. All that literally gets unmatched by pen blasts opening burst aoe.)

If it's to get aoe damage on something like that, why not make it just like Thermal det's aoe tactical, it doesn't do full damage. Same goes for annihilate tactical, we don't need more super strong AoE's because it comes a point that it's the only thing worth using in most cases.

 

Vengeful slam CDR, okay i'm sure you saw this one coming. Vengeful slam not only has a utility to make it AoE Sunder, but now it can make sure it's nearly always applied? No big deal, if it didn't do so much damage. Being able to hit this every other GCD is a bit strong, borderline too good. I think changing how often it procs GCD reduction would make it more reasonable.

 

ED tactical, okay well this is more so about immortal. Endure pain lasts 20 seconds as immortal. That's hefty for CD reduction on ED for immortal, this makes them more times than not always with a healing option dcd. It should either not be usable for tank, or just make it limited to 10 seconds duration.

 

Power yield felt underwhelming last I tried it, the setbonus didn't even work last I tried it too. Hopefully I can get that set and try it in this phase. Who knows what else doesn't even work, I would hate to think someone would grind for something and it doesn't even work.

 

But finally the most important one I must mention, Intimidating roar giving an accuracy debuff basically being a mini diversion but better after intimidating roar is over. This is literally too good in most pvp situations that you will be expected to be taking it, esp for ranked game play. Can we just not have this set? We really don't need more accuracy debuffs let alone I personally feel accuracy debuffs and messing with accuracy as a whole is not a good idea for game design in PvP. I do not enjoy the element of RNG in PvP, let alone anywhere else. (Looking at you diversion, literally one of the biggest game changers in most arenas.)

 

I hope to give more feedback as phase 3 comes live and more specific how does this class feel, etc. I will be more than happy to give plenty details and situations explaining how something is just too strong, at least PvP wise.

 

But if I have to grind for gear on pts to test it for pvp, ha. You got me good.

[EmperorRus]

Does a particular class or spec feel too weak?

- Madness(single target DPS is too low, too squishy, and not enough mobility)

 

 

Does a particular class or spec feel too strong?

Yes, sniper.

 

Do any of the new abilities feel too weak?

Volt Rush and Severing Slash are completely useless.

 

Is there a tactical that feels too strong?

Yes

 

Activating Covered Escape or returning to your marker with Hololocate makes your next Ambush activate instantly and deals 20% more damage

 

2 instant +20% Ambushes every 20 seconds... like, seriously?

Edited October 18, 2019 by EmperorRus

[TrixxieTriss]

Volt Rush is completely useless.

 

Agreed

Edited October 3, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Raansu]

- Hatred(too squishy)

- Madness(single target DPS is too low, too squishy, and not enough mobility)

- Deception(burst)

 

 

Yes, sniper.

 

 

Volt Rush and Severing Slash are completely useless.

 

 

Yes

 

 

 

2 instant +20% Ambushes every 20 seconds... like, seriously?

 

Ya, sniper is nearly broken on live. I don't know why they are giving it even more buffs without nerfing their utility. More burst wouldn't bother me if they nerfed them back to being actual glass cannons.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Raansu

[TrixxieTriss]

Ya, sniper is nearly broken on live. I don't know why they are giving it even more buffs without nerfing their utility. More burst wouldn't bother me if they nerfed them back to being actual glass cannons.

 

LoL, how about phase walk for snipers and there is a tactical that resets it to let you have two.

[Beyrahl]

Okay so going off what I said before.

 

Volt rush is not useless, it's actually stupidly strong with elemental convection for lightning, letting you Chain lighting after use, meaning three aoe abilities in a row. The slow and desync it causes makes it near impossible to chase too. You can kite every class ingame easily with the new ability and chain lighting. Now for usage on corruption and madness, I will agree it's pretty much useless.

 

Severing slash isn't complete trash if you're running the tank set... Yeah. tank set as DPS and even then you probably won't want to. But it's one of the ways to make the ability even slightly as good as the other new abilities.

 

Mostly we don't need more amazing AoE abilities let alone crazy editions of existing abilities to do crazy AoE, it's really messing pvp up.

 

I've played a good bit of lightning today on stream playing PvP, nearly doubling everyones damage as lightning if not tripling it, even in arenas. There's obviously skill gaps, but I will be honest, the aoe potential is too high even when they don't clump that much due to aoe range of chain lighting & volt rush.

 

I will try to give more feedback as I go playing PTS, I hope you guys add augments into the game for us to use, would really help optimize a lot more same with new stims.

 

Also side note, stun dr? It helps, why let some have it and others not. ty.

[EmperorRus]

Is there a set bonus that feels too strong?

Gathering Storm for Lightning/TK. 20% damage bonus + 20% alacrity + 50% chance to spark a Forked Lightning for 25 seconds every 60 seconds or so /w Surging Speed.

Edited October 5, 2019 by EmperorRus

[omaan]

Hey all,

 

Phase 3 is now active on PTS. Please head there and test how balance is feeling in all forms of PvP. Open world, Unranked Warzones, and Ranked Arenas. Please report your findings back into this thread. Some key information we are looking for:

• Does a particular class or spec feel too strong? Too weak?
  
• Do any of the new abilities feel particularly strong? Too weak?
  
• Is there a set bonus that feels too strong? Too weak?
  
• Is there a tactical that feels too strong? Too weak?
  
• Is there a specific set bonus and tactical combination that is over powered?
  

Be as specific in your feedback as possible! The questions above are just for guidance, feel free to pass on any feedback you have.

 

Thanks all!

 

-eric

 

Marauder specific set bonuses are absolutely useless. Mad dash while in camouflage? This makes no sense.

 

Lightning sorc aoe potential with convention tactical and chain lightning is too overpowered. Literally lt sorc can reck 3 meele classes in few seconds. On the othet side, volt rush seems to be useless for dot sorcs and dot sorcs are still too squishy.

 

WIth greet teeth dps juggs became too tanky and can allow themselves to guard their team mates as they are tank specs.

 

Concealment operative is still pretty bad in ranked since volatile substance, backstab (even used from stealth or with debuff from volatile substance) are still nothing compared to mando's demolition round, net and stealth scan or marauders furious strike, focused burst which carry out fights. Giving 3 min cooldown ability which resets some of abilities won't help this spec in ranked much and it still will be worse in ranked compared to sorcs, maras, mercs and snipers. This spec needs damage buff to volatile substance and backstab and a small nerf to rolls

Edited October 4, 2019 by omaan

[ottffsse]

Gathering Storm for Lightning/TK. 20% damage bonus + 20% alacrity + 50% chance to spark a Forked Lightning for 25 seconds every 60 seconds or so /w Surging Speed.

 

That set is amazing on madness too though. You get rid of it and madness is then well bellow io and virulence again and have no burst/pressure window in PvP at all. Sure ling can get off polarity shift a bit faster and more times in a fight but all the other benefits both specs from that set. (the damage boost from force speed is mainly eaten by a weak dot anyways whether it is affliction on lightning or something else on madness). That set and the the tactical adjustment on tempest of rho actually brought madness dps up from 5.0 to 6.0 to be now on the level of mercs and snipers whereas before it was bellow and no one wanted to play it. I think there is this perception still that lightning is a big winner but actually in the latest patches on pts stormwatch got nerfed hard where as tempest of rho got really buffed. So much so that madness can out-dps lightning on larger hp dummy 4-6mil target which it should since it is sustain and not burst. Did you know that stormwatch now adds only likr 8-10% dps increase instead of 20% to your overall damage as ling whereas tempest of rho never falls bellow 10% and sometimes is up to 13-14% in my parsing tests.

 

Speaking of which the only thing I would change is buff madness defense a little bit more though honostly it is fine now as it is. Something like a passive 5% dr increase from channeling force lightning would be appreciated though as hots are really not that great.

 

The other idea is, which can potentially help all of these "Squishy" dot classes (ie madness, pyro,hatred) is to make that "life leech" 5% amps you guys are touting to only apply to dot damage.

Edited October 4, 2019 by ottffsse

[WeaniS]

Is anyone talking about how bad healing is in PvP? If not I’ll for sure bring it up. So after watching countless vids on twitch and playing the pts pvp myself, nearly 96% of games the top healer was beaten by top dps, and followed by at least 2-3 more dps (who barely lagged behind heals). Talking to a lot of players/streamers and it seems to be the general consensus is if you aren’t a top healer, don’t heal because it’s so hard to keep up with the pressure. If anyone else has other opinions I’d be down to hear it, just at this moment I think heals needs to be buffed.

 

I agree with the posts about sniper for sure, Also i found a way to glitch the crit chance to a permanent 120%, I’ll submit the ticket into support.

Edited October 4, 2019 by WeaniS

[Raansu]

LoL, how about phase walk for snipers and there is a tactical that resets it to let you have two.

 

Ya that ability just blows my mind. What are these devs thinking?

[MasterRummy]

And when will you be adding Rebuke Assault set bonus for assassin tanks and all other set bonuses that are currently missing for us to test with? @Eric, @Daniel, DEVS?????

 

This is BS if everyone can test their gear yet others are not able to ya know!

[EmperorRus]

Mad-sorc PvP feadback.

 

 

1. Force Lightning is used so often that you will only feel mobile during DoT application, please do something

 

Just an idea:

"Force lightning channels and ticks 50% faster but deals 35% less damage. Force Speed gives 2 stacks of Lightning Barrage which allows Force Lightning to be activated while moving."

 

2. Madness needs a buff to one of it's DCDs and/or some passive DR increase. Too squishy.

Edited October 4, 2019 by EmperorRus

[Banthabreeder]

As a Balance Sage I'm getting slaughtered in wz's. Even more than before. I can be cc'd from full health all the way down to death. Even with my one cc break, I get immediately cc'd again and basically just stand there and die. If I use my 30 sec immunity bubble, once it wears off, again immediately cc'd all the way down to death. It's not fun.

 

I also noticed I can be cc'd even when I use my sprint ability. So I can't even run away. However, when I use my cc ability on others, I just see them keep on running. It's like why even try?

[Raansu]

As a Balance Sage I'm getting slaughtered in wz's. Even more than before. I can be cc'd from full health all the way down to death. Even with my one cc break, I get immediately cc'd again and basically just stand there and die. If I use my 30 sec immunity bubble, once it wears off, again immediately cc'd all the way down to death. It's not fun.

 

I also noticed I can be cc'd even when I use my sprint ability. So I can't even run away. However, when I use my cc ability on others, I just see them keep on running. It's like why even try?

 

Are you not aware of how resolve works? You have a mez bubble and two CC breakers....technically 3 with phase walk. Its no different that live. It seems to me you're panic breaking and getting stunned again before your resolve bar is full. And the reason your stuns are not working on them is because you're likely hitting a stun on someone who has full resolve which gives immunity to stuns for 15 seconds.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Raansu

[dracmor]

PVP Feedback of sorts, this concerning bolster, just for information:

 

Bolster stats for Corruption sorc:

 

On fleet, IR 281: Crit 35.15%, alacrity 10.92%, bonus damage 4842.7, bonus healing 3601.4

In WZ: Crit 40.04, alacrity 12.81, damage 6601, heal 4907.5

 

On fleet, IR 281: Crit 25.46%, alacrity 15.68%, damage 4883.3, heal 3632.

In WZ: Crit 31.60%, Alacrity 17.10%, damage 6643.5, heal 4939.5

 

On fleet, IR 304: Crit 36.40%, alacrity 14.25%, damage 5982.8, heal 4447.2

In WZ: Crit 37.47%, alacrity 14.39%, damage 6704.4, heal 4983.9

 

On fleet, IR 304: Crit 33.84%, alacrity 15.47%, dam 6016.5, heal 4472.7

In WZ: Crit 34.93%, alacrity 15.60%, damage 6738.2, heal 5009.3.

 

 

Bolster stats for Arsenal Merc:

 

On fleet, IR 282: Crit 31.30%, alacrity 9.03%, accuracy 110%, bonus damage 4968.5, bonus heal 3592.9

In WZ: Crit 35.70%, alacrity 10.86%, acc 110.81%, damage 6710, heal 3592.9

 

On fleet, IR 282: Crit 31.30%, alacrity 13.82%, acc 104.85%, damage 4958.6, heal 3585.6

In WZ: Crit 35.70%, alacrity 15.28%, accuracy 105.85, damage 6700.6, heal 4843.1

 

On fleet, IR 282, Crit 23.91%, alacrity 18.66%, accuracy 102.92%, damage 4979.7, heal 3601.3

In WZ: Crit 29.06%, alacrity 19.76%, accuracy 104.0%, damage 6721.6, heal 4858.8.

 

 

From these numbers:

 

The bonus damage and healing seemed consistent, with apparent goals of 6700 for damage and 5000 for healing with only minor differences, although minor differences can add up in PVP. But the crit and alacrity varied and it seemed like one got a better bonus in lower IR gear (maybe save a lower tier set for PVP?) and it seemed like dps is getting a slightly different bolster versus heals (I don't play tanks so can't speak to that). Notice the ability for a dps to still get an alacrity boost at high alacrity whereas the healer spec seemed to top out and got an extremely minor boost. In this particular scenario the healer even had a +2% alacrity set bonus where the merc had a +2% mastery bonus. Only the weapons had augments, carryover 238 augments from Live. No other gear was augmented.

 

Good? Bad? Indifferent? Working as intended? I will let others decide.

[Banthabreeder]

Are you not aware of how resolve works? You have a mez bubble and two CC breakers....technically 3 with phase walk. Its no different that live. It seems to me you're panic breaking and getting stunned again before your resolve bar is full. And the reason your stuns are not working on them is because you're likely hitting a stun on someone who has full resolve which gives immunity to stuns for 15 seconds.

 

My resolve bar is full white. : ( Still doesn't matter. I'm frozen the whole time. The phase walk is situational. If your too far from where you planted it, its worthless. Just seems it's worse on the PTS than live. Just my take on it.

[dracmor]

Is anyone talking about how bad healing is in PvP? If not I’ll for sure bring it up.

 

I would like to confirm this. The corruption sorc healing seems to have been decimated in 6.0 and the variety of tacticals and set bonuses do not do enough to make up for this (the new ability has zero uses for a corruption sorc and is not even on my ability bar).

 

In PVP the heals I cast would be barely enough or not even enough to keep a person from sliding downwards if they were in a 1v1 fight. Anytime a person went from 35% health to 70% health it had zero to do with my healing and was all about them using their DCDs. An average heal for me was around 15K-17K, maybe 25-28K with crits and if relics proc, etc; I've been hit by a 38K attack. If a dps is doing 20K per hit and I'm only healing 16K, how can I be viable in pvp? I can barely "survive" a 1v1 encounter - even if I managed to heal enough to live, my resources would drain to basically nothing - so either I would run out of heals to cast or now that someone has peeled the dps or skank tank off of me I no longer have the resources to effectively heal or help the group anyway. Needless to say, a 2v1 would just melt me with no chance of survival. And this is all without worrying about the normal stun lock side of pvp...

 

Standard heals < standard dps plus poor resource management in a world of skank tanks and dps with OP DCDs (or at least DCDs better than what the sorc healer has) pretty much rules out this class for pvp and makes me question the viability of sorc heals in level 75 content.

 

In fact, I offer this suggestion: at this point, just go ahead and bar any/all healing specs from PVP. At the very least do this on PTS and with only tanks, skanks and dps running around it will help highlight which classes have the best or OP DCDs and self-heals (especially when combined with a 20-30% life steal amps).

 

One other suggestion: tacticals should be like utilities - once you queue for a pvp match, you should not be able to change or remove the tactical until you are back on fleet.

 

Just my two cents.

[Beyrahl]

After today I played some more lightning.

I still have to say elemental convection synergy with volt rush and lightning is just too strong. Being able to throw 3 strong aoe's back to back that are all proc'd for more damage is rough.

 

I then played some vengeance juggernaut as it's the obvious one for being just busted.

Vengeful slam being nearly every other GCD with the CDR on vengeful slam tactical is just too good.

 

Both of them can easily pull 12k+ in not so great games for DPS in arenas pretty easily.

But so can lethality and marksmanship with pen blasts aoe tactical.

 

I hope that all four of these are approached and then a good thing to keep an eye on however, I have not tested yet is AoE heatseeker, potentially pretty strong and explosive weaponry for Pyro, that much AoE burst is just silly. I have not gotten any aoe game for that tactical for pyro yet, but I am sure it can melt whole teams.

 

And again, the setbonus of warrior that lowers accuracy after intimidating roar for only a 4 set piece is too strong. Even IF it was 6 set, I think it's far too broken. We really need less things like diversion because it's so strong you just have to take it. Diversion is a game changer for sure, giving another class to have something similar is a bit obnoxious. I hope that we may see more changes to even existing abilities like auto root on knockback for sniper without taking any utilities for it. Or reworking diversion so these other things could also be removed if such reasoning was that its okay to add in because diversion exists.

Another setbonus is the assassin tank one that allows severing slash to reduce accuracy greatly, the description is awful but I assume it works just like awe's set.

We don't need more accuracy debuffs or CC, we already have plenty.

[memerobot]

[*]Does a particular class or spec feel too strong? Too weak?

Yeah, Lethality is weak. I know its a sustained damage spec but the "pvp spec" (Concealment) is doing comparable damage the "pve spec" even in PvE content(I tested it lightly). What gives?

 

I know this is a PvP thread but there's no other topic open to talk about this.

 

I mean, the spec only received one buff across literally all updates and that was 15% Damage reduction after Shield Probe ends. You can trace back all the way to 1.0 and you will see its literally the only buff the spec ever received. Rest is just nerfs... I know this is PTS but why do this?

 

[*]Do any of the new abilities feel particularly strong? Too weak?

I have the distinct feeling that you nerfed Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart because they feel weak compared to before. On Live, Corrosive Grenade + Corrosive Dart does about the same damage as Volatile + Backstab and on now on PTS, they do less damage. Conceal is doing the same damage if not higher. If it wasn't the dots that were nerfed then ignore this part. (This has more to do with the next topic regarding the tacticals).

 

[*]Is there a tactical that feels too strong? Too weak?

 

Catalyzed Toxins. Supposedly it was going to be the big burst damage of Lethality since it forces all dots to finish in trade of doing all their damage in one go but the setup to maximize their damage is doing 1/2 if not a 1/3 in 5 to 6 GCDs of what Concealment can do in 3 GCDs. On Live game, with a different rotation than the supposed burst thing (because no tacticals), is doing the same damage than Concealment with the same GCDs count. (This one is related to the Corrosive Grenade and Corrosive Dart feeling weak. If I'm wrong, well, guess this tactical will be out of the deal).

 

Synox shots feel weak? I know you don't want to buff it too much because of PvE but its just feels that way.

 

Viral elements might be a bit strong? The spam of Toxic Haze + Noxious knives can do a lot of damage but only when at its strongest when Lethal Strike buff is up and utilities to enhance the AOE damage from Noxious knives are picked. Other specs are performing just as good, possibly better? And on Live, Leth does already possess a strong AOE pressure so no idea if action is needed to nerf it.

Edited October 7, 2019 by memerobot

[ottffsse]

There has been a defensive cooldown "arms race" happening between mercs, snipers and marauders since the end of 4.x where other classes have been left in the dust in comparison. Dot classes like hatred, lethality, madness and pyro are suffering defensively as a result of passive healing / mitigation from doing dot damage not being scaled to account for burst increases in the burst dps classes as well as new defensive buffs given to the top three defensive classes (Merc, sniper, mara). Dot classes have to stay on target to ramp up damage to compete with burst - but they can't do it really unless you are an io merc or engineering sniper because on those other dot classes you melt under returned focus.

[TrixxieTriss]

When is the best time to test pvp. I can’t ever get matches due to my time zone. But I also don’t want to get up at 5am and sit around if it won’t pop at that time. If there is a time, I will try and make that time to test.

[TrixxieTriss]

There has been a defensive cooldown "arms race" happening between mercs, snipers and marauders since the end of 4.x where other classes have been left in the dust in comparison. Dot classes like hatred, lethality, madness and pyro are suffering defensively as a result of passive healing / mitigation from doing dot damage not being scaled to account for burst increases in the burst dps classes as well as new defensive buffs given to the top three defensive classes (Merc, sniper, mara). Dot classes have to stay on target to ramp up damage to compete with burst - but they can't do it really unless you are an io merc or engineering sniper because on those other dot classes you melt under returned focus.

 

There are some interesting Amplifiers that can increase you dots (as well as some that mitigate them). I’m not sure if they are working though.

[Raansu]

There has been a defensive cooldown "arms race" happening between mercs, snipers and marauders since the end of 4.x

 

Ya and I wish they'd roll back on them. Too many classes have too much survivability.