We need to talk about the new alacrity threshold

[Metthew]

It is way too high. Having it that high essentially eliminates the only interesting choice in gearing we could have (no, no DPS should ever get endurance-heavy mods, this isn't 2.x PvP anymore). 1.4s GCD will essentially be the only option for almost every class, which will mean slower gameplay and lack of possible customisation in an era of alleged lots of loot and great customisation.

 

Can you please consider either greatly increasing the tertiary stat budget, or changing the formula for alacrity? Having 1.3s GCD without massive DPS loss would be great, having 1.2s GCD accessible would be even better.

[TerraStomper]

I agree. A 1.4 second GCD feels really slow. In theory, its mostly there. In 306 with full augments a 1.3 GCD from alacrity is possible at least for a healer if one can sacrifice about 5% from critical chance.

 

But, in PTS 2.0 we don't have access to the new augments, 236 and 240 augments have been nerfed, and 306 gear is 19 tiers away after hitting level 75. So, 1.4s GCD is about the best anyone can manage right now. Going back to 228 augments in the mean time would help with this. Still, it is more difficult for PvE DPS to achieve even 1.4s GCD since they must also trade off critical or alacrity for accuracy.

[Metthew]

Yeah, the amount of critical you sacrifice right now just does not make it worth it. I was hoping for maybe even pushing to 1.2s GCD, but instead we get slower characters. -.-

[Restoman]

Just a thought, current stat budget might be in place with another tier of gear in mind later - hopefully with nim Dxun where we'll see return of 1,3 s GCD builds

[dipstik]

looks like we will eb able to get 1.3 with augments and vm dxun drops.

[cibacrome]

Based on completely maxed out gear that was available in PTS 1.5 I think we are looking at current numbers as is. So 1.3 gcd basically requires big sacrifice of crit even with fully augmented gear, to the point of not being worth it. I really hope the dev team fixes the alacrity formula so we are not all forced to play a noticeably slower game, feels like riding a potato at 1.4

[Metthew]

Just a thought, current stat budget might be in place with another tier of gear in mind later - hopefully with nim Dxun where we'll see return of 1,3 s GCD builds

I am really hoping they don't design the current system while already having a future expansion to the grind in mind. So don't give them ideas! Edited September 3, 2019 by Metthew

[auroroavalor]

I'd like to jump in and say that even though the alacrity thresholds themselves felt forced upon you once the community discovered the existence of them I am not looking forward to going into a new expansion in the knowledge I will be losing APM.

[speedphlux]

I honestly thought and believed that as the game progresses, new things will become more easily accessible - case in point, 1,2 seconds GCD.

 

I'm dumbfound to why the opposite seems to be the goal with the new 6.0 system. Why ? Just curious.

[Toraak]

I honestly thought and believed that as the game progresses, new things will become more easily accessible - case in point, 1,2 seconds GCD.

 

I'm dumbfound to why the opposite seems to be the goal with the new 6.0 system. Why ? Just curious.

 

why would you expect them to allow us to keep getting lower and lower GCD? when 2.0 hit, the numbers needed for critcal % changed. When 3.0 hit the same thing happened. It's been a common theme to alter how much rating we need to get to the same Critical (and now Alacrity) thresholds each and every expansion. Simply put we always needed more and more points to get to the same percentages. While 3200 may be a lot, considering we needed 1859 before 6.0 it makes sense to be around that number now.

 

Something to consider also. Critical needs about 3k for us to reach what we have on Live as well.

[Teashan]

why would you expect them to allow us to keep getting lower and lower GCD? when 2.0 hit, the numbers needed for critcal % changed. When 3.0 hit the same thing happened. It's been a common theme to alter how much rating we need to get to the same Critical (and now Alacrity) thresholds each and every expansion. Simply put we always needed more and more points to get to the same percentages. While 3200 may be a lot, considering we needed 1859 before 6.0 it makes sense to be around that number now.

 

Something to consider also. Critical needs about 3k for us to reach what we have on Live as well.

 

You forgot that in current patch along with high alacrity and 1.3 gcd we also have high crit - about 44%. But in 6.0 it seems impossible to have both alacrity and crit at the same high level, whereas we would like to keep it if not make it even higher

[scardera]

I honestly thought and believed that as the game progresses, new things will become more easily accessible - case in point, 1,2 seconds GCD.

 

I'm dumbfound to why the opposite seems to be the goal with the new 6.0 system. Why ? Just curious.

 

because they are nering every fun aspect of the game apparently now everything has to be a painful slow grind even the rotation of your character is nerfed

[scardera]

You forgot that in current patch along with high alacrity and 1.3 gcd we also have high crit - about 44%. But in 6.0 it seems impossible to have both alacrity and crit at the same high level, whereas we would like to keep it if not make it even higher

 

An weak atempt at stats squish from bioware. Sound like they watched BFA fail and decided to do the same slower rotation less stats. weird gearing system full of RNG

[dipstik]

Based on completely maxed out gear that was available in PTS 1.5 I think we are looking at current numbers as is. So 1.3 gcd basically requires big sacrifice of crit even with fully augmented gear, to the point of not being worth it. I really hope the dev team fixes the alacrity formula so we are not all forced to play a noticeably slower game, feels like riding a potato at 1.4

 

i think that was equivalent to present 236 lvl so we still have a way to go i think

Edited September 6, 2019 by dipstik

[Metthew]

306 is equivalent to 248 gear, with which it was definitely still an ok choice to go for the higher alacrity threshold. With this, not so much.

 

Also, lower GCD makes the game just so much more fun, so lowering the threshold so 1.3s GCD (or even 1.2GCD) is possible would just make it fun. I agree with the other poster who said he is not looking forward to lower APM.

[Benirons]

This sounds odd. Stats budgets go up with higher rating gear, but the same stat %s can still be achieved so long as the formula for the stat and the relative stat per rating is unchanged. Ur gear rating needs to be pretty damn high to get 1.3 GCD and it being worthwhile. So sadly the reality is going to be a measly 1.4 GCD for everyone until we get really high rating gear all round. Im sad to hear this cause this game is horribly slow with stock GCD, ugh.

 

Im worried to hear about the augs getting nerfed. So one day we log in and stuff is just taken away? I was pissed horribly when 60 to 65 happened and i lost abilities i had the day b4.

[phalczen]

You forget we get a new active ability and more mastery/power that will be bumping up damage. If tacticals and set boni work out as intended rotations may not even be the same. I just think there are too many variables in play right now to know which setup will be better (1.4 or 1.3s GCD with more or less crit respectively).

[speedphlux]

why would you expect them to allow us to keep getting lower and lower GCD? when 2.0 hit, the numbers needed for critcal % changed. When 3.0 hit the same thing happened. It's been a common theme to alter how much rating we need to get to the same Critical (and now Alacrity) thresholds each and every expansion. Simply put we always needed more and more points to get to the same percentages. While 3200 may be a lot, considering we needed 1859 before 6.0 it makes sense to be around that number now.

 

Something to consider also. Critical needs about 3k for us to reach what we have on Live as well.

 

We had Crit and Surge back then. Totally different ballgame. They were not the same stat as far as I remember. It was natural. I just thought that the game was going in a direction of "high mobility" and "fluidity", which I thought was only natural to get closer to the 1.2 secs GCD and have it be obtainable, without major sacrifices. Minor sacrifices - yes, sure. But not major ones.

 

I understand your point, but the IR gap between 248/258 and 306 isn't the same as the gap between 1859 and 3200. If the gap was the roughly the same, we'd have an Alac step-up at around 2955. 250-300 points or so difference might not sound like a lot, but when you consider that PvE'ers would also need to spend around 1600 points to reach their Accuracy cap of 110%, it makes the balance a ton more difficult. That's like 5xEnhancements without the Augments and Stims. This is pretty much what a barebone 230 gear is on Live server right now. You'd need 5xEnhancements in order to reach your Acc cap w/o any Augments or Stims.

 

Add to that the mess that is crafting currently on the PTS and you'd have something close to a month on the live release, before people start seeing affordable Grade 11 Augment Kits, Augments and Stims. If not longer, depending on server population and activity.

 

I think the point here lies in the new level cap, not so much with the new Item Rating and the cut off points for each stat. Note that the Alac cap did not change with the introduction of 258 gear. It was always the same, at level 70. Even when the max IR was 242. We try the same formula at 75 and we hit new levels of bad math all over the place. There is something very wrong on BW's end of the story and we need to let them know that they need to look into it. I believe that they've simply forgot to move the "diminishing returns" point on all of the stats and that' why we're seeing what we're seeing now on the PTS.

[scardera]

Remember the ''play your way'' ? that mean play the way bioware want you to play. On paper it look like you have a lot of option for gearing but in fact you dont. 6.0 will be a disaster

[xordevoreaux]

You forget we get a new active ability and more mastery/power that will be bumping up damage. If tacticals and set boni work out as intended rotations may not even be the same. I just think there are too many variables in play right now to know which setup will be better (1.4 or 1.3s GCD with more or less crit respectively).

 

No amount of accuracy, mastery, crit, or power or any other stat matters if I can't get an ability off in time to heal that tank who's low on health and we're wiping when he drops.

Edited September 6, 2019 by xordevoreaux

[OlBuzzard]

No amount of accuracy, mastery, crit, or power or any other stat matters if I can't get an ability off in time to heal that tank who's low on health and we're wiping when he drops.

 

Solid point. All of the fancy stuff will not amount to a hill of beans if you can't use it fast enough !

[phalczen]

No amount of accuracy, mastery, crit, or power or any other stat matters if I can't get an ability off in time to heal that tank who's low on health and we're wiping when he drops.

 

But healers don’t need accuracy so they can more easily reach the 1.3s GCD compared to DPS characters. At least, it wasn’t a problem on PTS 1.5 in 306 rating gear. Now, a healer’s crit and crit multiplier won’t be as high as they were in 5.10.4, but Mas/Pow are also much higher, so the baseline level is going up.

 

Is there any evidence that people are having a hard time healing more difficult content on PTS 2.0?

[xordevoreaux]

But healers don’t need accuracy so they can more easily reach the 1.3s GCD compared to DPS characters. At least, it wasn’t a problem on PTS 1.5 in 306 rating gear. Now, a healer’s crit and crit multiplier won’t be as high as they were in 5.10.4, but Mas/Pow are also much higher, so the baseline level is going up.

 

Is there any evidence that people are having a hard time healing more difficult content on PTS 2.0?

 

I knew mentioning accuracy regarding a healer wold garner a response like the above, the point was no stat matters if you can't get the ability off, and only alacrity gets you there for that, and I don't mean to surround the conversation just around healers, it was simply the easiest example to demonstrate. Any class needing fast GCDs to accomplish what could be accomplished prior may need to reset expectations.

[phalczen]

I knew mentioning accuracy regarding a healer wold garner a response like the above, the point was no stat matters if you can't get the ability off, and only alacrity gets you there for that, and I don't mean to surround the conversation just around healers, it was simply the easiest example to demonstrate. Any class needing fast GCDs to accomplish what could be accomplished prior may need to reset expectations.

 

But clearly people ARE able to get their damage abilities to activate with 1.4s GCDs on live, because that happens all the time in PvP.

 

I agree that your point is valid theoretically. So is it valid practically? I’m not a NiM ops player, so I don’t really have a great sense for what the tightest dps check in the game is. For the sake of argument, let’s pretend it’s Master/Blaster. Have groups tested Ravagers on PTS?

 

I’d argue you chose exactly the right example, if you can’t get a heal off at a critical time it might mean a wipe. Maybe alacrity is going to be more important for healers than dps in 6.0. Maybe healers won’t be able to be counted on for that extra dps that they used to use extra GCDs for but now will have to make sure it’s available for healing. Haven’t I read that most healing checks in the game, even in Master mode ops, are pretty doable?

 

In other words, where is your empirical evidence?

[Metthew]

But clearly people ARE able to get their damage abilities to activate with 1.4s GCDs on live, because that happens all the time in PvP.

PvP with 1.4s is decidedly boring for ranged classes (don't play much melee myself), and 1.3s GCD, although attainable, requires sacrificing too much crit to be viable in PVP. And don't tell me that I can just sacrifice accuracy - sniper's white hardstun means we actually do want the 10%, so we don't miss stuns on sins / sorcs with no DCD's and lose the game.

 

edit: Just so we are clear, my argument is not that 1.3s GCD is needed for damage / healing etc., it's needed to make the game more exciting.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Metthew