End Game for End Gamers

[MingusPho]

What does it look like for you and what would you like to see?

 

I ask because getting to level 70 can be done rather quickly.

[DarthSpuds]

I'm very much of the opinion that "it is good to an end to journey towards, but in the end it is the journey itself that matters".

 

No game has ever managed to craft an end-game experience that isn't rife with grind, repetitive boredom, and more grind.

 

And almost all games create the stupid process of doing "end game" content to get "best gear", when logic dictates if you can do the "end game" content, you don't need to be rewarded with the "best gear" because you've just done the content.

 

Some game company or other really has to rethink the "end game" process, and maybe even accept that "end game" is actually when a "game ends".

 

The ONLY end-game instance in any game I have done more than 3 or 4 times is Draigoch in LOTRO, and that was because I was in the "farm team" to get other players Scales for gear.

 

When the "end game repeat grind" is all I have left in a game, I unsub and go play another game until new content drops.

 

I have to grind every day at work, I will not pay any game for the "privilege" of doing it in my leisure time.

 

All The Best

Edited June 30, 2019 by DarthSpuds

[Delani]

What does it look like for you and what would you like to see?

 

I ask because getting to level 70 can be done rather quickly.

 

Well, Im excited for the new gearing system. Grinding on all my toons to get builds I believe are the best for me should be fun but other than that. Endgame for me would be PvP (which we already have and ranked pvp) and rping. I wish they would add more to the game to make us feel like were actually in a universe. As of now, I feel like all we do is our dailies and weeklys. Improve on the RP experience and get more creative with crafting. Allow playewrs to customize their own gear and their own color waves.

[foxmob]

end game:

• new group content on a regular basis (twice per year) -- ops and fps.
  
• pvp does not require new maps very often (once every 2 years?), but it does require more attention to class balance changes, small tweaks every 2 months rather than invasive changes every 2-3 years with the emergency nerf ever 6 months to 2 years.
  
• I know ppl get upset when others (such as myself) demand that SWTOR be more like WoW, but the mythics dungeon system in WoW is amazing. THAT is the best way to keep "old" content relevant. timed runs that scale in difficulty that you can do multiple times and get gear commensurate with the difficulty of the instance. if BW had a FP system at all comparable to the WoW mythic dungeons, I wouldn't have to ignore PvE in favor of PvP to get my SW MMO jones taken care of.
  

 

problems with current system:

stale grp content, i.e., the same old ops and fps, are not only boring in themselves, but even when they scale up in difficulty, they don't reward gear commensurate with their difficulty. for example, SM queen is a cake walk, considerably easier than HM revan or underlurker, for that matter. yet queen drops 252s. I understand that you don't want players farming EV and KP for 252s/258s, but the problem is that BW just doesn't churn out enough new grp content, so they need to do more to make the older stuff relevant. if you're not going to produce multiple new ops each year, then you need to make the older content relevant (drop newer gear and, thus, make the older content more challenging). BW hasn't done either at all effectively, imo.

[DarthSpuds]

I know ppl get upset when others (such as myself) demand that SWTOR be more like WoW, but the mythics dungeon system in WoW is amazing. THAT is the best way to keep "old" content relevant. timed runs that scale in difficulty that you can do multiple times and get gear commensurate with the difficulty of the instance. if BW had a FP system at all comparable to the WoW mythic dungeons, I wouldn't have to ignore PvE in favor of PvP to get my SW MMO jones taken care of.

 

WoW Mythic: Repeat already stale content, you've already repeated 100 times, again in 5% less time for a 1% better reward.

 

Nope, this game does not need that, no game needs that, not even WoW: Old Content with new rewards does NOT equal New Content.

 

 

All The Best

[Nemmar]

WoW Mythic: Repeat already stale content, you've already repeated 100 times, again in 5% less time for a 1% better reward.

 

Nope, this game does not need that, no game needs that, not even WoW: Old Content with new rewards does NOT equal New Content.

 

 

All The Best

 

Mythic+ dungeons in WoW have weekly modifiers that make them different challenges.

 

The reason why people get rewarded the gear for hard content is not for the current tier of hard content but for the next.

 

The system is really popular in WoW and in GW2. It would be awesome for swtor to have it too cause FP's are severely underused/unrewarding.

 

I know you hate any sort of repetition, but there will never be a game that can correspond to your expectations.

The way to make the same content new is by having the player approach it in a different way. Modifier systems like Mythic+ are the best realistic alternative to that. Wich is why people like them.

 

Anyways, what i'd like to see is a new end-game operation every 6 months, and a dungeon mythic+ system (and PvP) but it seems unlikely. Bioware can't put out content that regularly.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Nemmar

[Rolodome]

I'm very much of the opinion that "it is good to an end to journey towards, but in the end it is the journey itself that matters".

 

No game has ever managed to craft an end-game experience that isn't rife with grind, repetitive boredom, and more grind.

 

And almost all games create the stupid process of doing "end game" content to get "best gear", when logic dictates if you can do the "end game" content, you don't need to be rewarded with the "best gear" because you've just done the content.

 

Some game company or other really has to rethink the "end game" process, and maybe even accept that "end game" is actually when a "game ends".

 

The ONLY end-game instance in any game I have done more than 3 or 4 times is Draigoch in LOTRO, and that was because I was in the "farm team" to get other players Scales for gear.

 

When the "end game repeat grind" is all I have left in a game, I unsub and go play another game until new content drops.

 

I have to grind every day at work, I will not pay any game for the "privilege" of doing it in my leisure time.

 

All The Best

I find that creativity is a pretty solid alternative to grinding as "end-game"; allowing people to get loads of hours out of systems that can be updated semi regularly (e.g. don't need a constant churning out of "content"). You can see this with success in games like The Sims, where creativity is much of the "content."

 

You can also see it with success in systems like wardrobe/outfitter in games like these. Or with strongholds/housing and decorating.

 

Of course, when the main way to participate in said creativity is to nickle and dime pay RL money, it shoots itself in the foot as a mode of end-game content.

 

For example, if I could change a character's appearance without paying CC, I'd probably sink quite a number of hours into screwing around with various appearances of different characters of mine. The CC cost means that I will almost never do it, unless I have some extra CC from a sub I'm not bent on spending elsewhere and I desperately hate something about the appearance of a character of mine.

 

The outfit system has a similar problem, though not as bad. The credit cost and the difficulties of having access to some sets on multiple characters restricts the creativity and puts a cost on each change in appearance.

 

I mean, imagine if you had to pay 50k credits to do a flashpoint at level 70. You'd probably be much more selective about how you spend your time in flashpoints and which ones you do.

 

I would argue that decisions/design like these shrink a game that could otherwise be entertaining much more easily for much longer. But of course, they can't nickle and dime people in the same way without them. They choose the short-term gains of nickle and dime over the long-term health of an interested game population. And slowly decline in the long-term.

[Psilanthropy]

I just go back and replay the class stories, because that's my favorite part of the game. Actually, it's the only part I really engage in.

[MingusPho]

End game for me is master mode flashpoint achievements and building wealth. Crafting goods, farming resources, and waiting on group finder to pop is about all I'm motivated to do at the moment.

[MingusPho]

 

I mean, imagine if you had to pay 50k credits to do a flashpoint at level 70. You'd probably be much more selective about how you spend your time in flashpoints and which ones you do.

 

I would argue that decisions/design like these shrink a game that could otherwise be entertaining much more easily for much longer. But of course, they can't nickle and dime people in the same way without them. They choose the short-term gains of nickle and dime over the long-term health of an interested game population. And slowly decline in the long-term.

 

Nickle and dime is what they do indeed. Unlike most other games the focus here is always money....credits, command tokens, rep tokens, cartel coins, real dollars. Then there's outfit designer fees, gtn tax, repair fees, unlock fees, crewskill missiin fees...I mean its clear the surpreme overlord of dwvelopment was never thinking words like "fun" and "game" and especially not "end game" lol.

Edited July 1, 2019 by MingusPho

[Rolodome]

Nickle and dime is what they do indeed. Unlike most other games the focus here is always money....credits, command tokens, rep tokens, cartel coins, real dollars. Then there's outfit designer fees, gtn tax, repair fees, unlock fees, crewskill missiin fees...I mean its clear the surpreme overlord of dwvelopment was never thinking words like "fun" and "game" and especially not "end game" lol.

Indeed. The honest truth is, if I wasn't such a fan of KOTOR-like games, I'd probably never have given this game a serious chance in any capacity. And I seriously doubt I would have ever stuck around for any length of time if I wasn't. That and the video game industry as a whole being in such a rut of repetitive and cookie-cutter, over-monetized games, leaving little new to be truly excited about, which pushes me to go back and look again at older titles.

 

I'm not trying to be a downer, but as a video games hobbyist, most of my reason for playing this game comes down to, "Many of my other options are probably worse." I'm not particularly enthused about it, just moderately content some of the time.

 

The only time I've ever been enthused about this game was when I was newer to it and didn't know the extent of how negligent and non-communicative its team is, and how thoroughly, stubbornly monetized it is. EA must have been ecstatic when it signed the Star Wars license deal. People like me would never give this game a second glance without the Star Wars IP behind it.

 

I am stubborn though and I try to fight for the things I'm into, even if it seems like a losing battle. So I say what I can when I'm around that will maybe push the needle on something. It's about like a lootbox attempting to do so though. Dumb luck as to whether it will accomplish anything.

[Nemmar]

Indeed. The honest truth is, if I wasn't such a fan of KOTOR-like games, I'd probably never have given this game a serious chance in any capacity. And I seriously doubt I would have ever stuck around for any length of time if I wasn't. That and the video game industry as a whole being in such a rut of repetitive and cookie-cutter, over-monetized games, leaving little new to be truly excited about, which pushes me to go back and look again at older titles.

 

I'm not trying to be a downer, but as a video games hobbyist, most of my reason for playing this game comes down to, "Many of my other options are probably worse." I'm not particularly enthused about it, just moderately content some of the time.

 

The only time I've ever been enthused about this game was when I was newer to it and didn't know the extent of how negligent and non-communicative its team is, and how thoroughly, stubbornly monetized it is. EA must have been ecstatic when it signed the Star Wars license deal. People like me would never give this game a second glance without the Star Wars IP behind it.

 

I am stubborn though and I try to fight for the things I'm into, even if it seems like a losing battle. So I say what I can when I'm around that will maybe push the needle on something. It's about like a lootbox attempting to do so though. Dumb luck as to whether it will accomplish anything.

 

While i agree with your points, i do have gained a renewed belief with the new dev team leadership.

[Visorknight]

If i am not wrong, endgame for this game is always all about trying to 100% complete the cartel market collections. Gear etc are given to you just by playing the game.