Here's an idea: Get rid of team ranked and focus on improving solo ranked.

[Zurules]

By the way, if you think dodging isn't existing in solo ranked - you are mistaken. If a highrated player knows there is more skilled player queueing and that this player also has high rating believe me he won't queue (if this guy is an experienced solo ranked player who knows how the system works).

 

This is so funny to me that you have this point of view. I find it funny because for me it is the exact opposite. I would stop queuing when there were people throwing on us, a few "auto loss" players were playing or when healer/tanks were declining pops which made games very unfair a majority of the time. If there are a lot of high rated players in queue, that meant a better chance at avoiding the problems I experienced and I could have some good games.

 

The best players don't dodge the best players in solo queue. In my experience, its the players who are good and think they deserve top 3 titles, but are not good enough to beat the best players in a consistent basis especially if they are tanks or healers. The best example of this was a certain guardian (now influencer) who got top 3 one season who would dodge kanaba like someone who had the plague. Every time kanaba would log in and instantly queue, he had a chance to play the influencer if he didn't not leave queue fast enough. Kanaba never got two games in a row vs him, he always stopped queuing, logged off or went on another toon. We even asked him why he stopped queuing and he said he had to go. That's fair, he might really have to go, but what made this funny to us was that it was the same excuse every time and it didn't matter if this was in peak primetime or a bit later when maybe he was tired and went to sleep. We even did a few tests where after he would "leave", kanaba would log off 5 minutes later and and we would just watch for him. Just as we anticipated, he logged back on his main a minute later and was back in the solo ranked queue.

 

I have never heard of a dps player dodging a higher rated dps player lol.

 

The two top NA teams in s9 were the Caprica's team and Ruining Lives. There's literally hours of video of both of these teams seeking the other out and playing hundreds of matches against them. I was there, I played in them. Caprica's team doesn't play anymore, but Ruining Lives plays infrequently right now. This is because the quality of matches is just not exciting and not worth the time to log in.

 

I can confirm this. Ruinning lives was the only team that would play us anytime they had their team online. My friends quit swtor then because no one else would play us. The game got boring and they decided to go play other games and I don't blame them for doing so.

[KendraP]

I can confirm this. Ruinning lives was the only team that would play us anytime they had their team online. My friends quit swtor then because no one else would play us. The game got boring and they decided to go play other games and I don't blame them for doing so.

 

Look at it this way: if you personally can queue to get matches against talented teams (because you can easily check who is queuing and whether or not they are in a match), the reverse is also true and you can queue to avoid talented teams (i.e. you can see who's in the queue and since they are good decide not to queue). Because you can easily see who's queuing you can easily and actively decide what to do with that information.

 

There are inevitably people who manipulate the system in both ways, and because it is possible, the rating it gives is meaningless. The bad eggs ruined the whole bunch for everyone.

[Zurules]

Look at it this way: if you personally can queue to get matches against talented teams (because you can easily check who is queuing and whether or not they are in a match), the reverse is also true and you can queue to avoid talented teams (i.e. you can see who's in the queue and since they are good decide not to queue). Because you can easily see who's queuing you can easily and actively decide what to do with that information.

 

There are inevitably people who manipulate the system in both ways, and because it is possible, the rating it gives is meaningless. The bad eggs ruined the whole bunch for everyone.

 

Im not quite sure what u mean my manipulate the system in both ways? For us if we knew teams that can at least put up a good fight were in queue, we would try and get games vs them. Lots of the mid tier teams who would dodge us or the people who we suspected of wintrading, if they were in queue, we would queue to try and break it up. We sort of had a joke that we were the "ranked police" in group ranked and would patrol the queue. A lot of the times when we would catch people doing shady stuff, we would zone in and be vs only one person and sometimes no one at all. We had a few good laughs hunting these kinds of people.

[SlimeyDoom]

Im not quite sure what u mean my manipulate the system in both ways? For us if we knew teams that can at least put up a good fight were in queue, we would try and get games vs them. Lots of the mid tier teams who would dodge us or the people who we suspected of wintrading, if they were in queue, we would queue to try and break it up. We sort of had a joke that we were the "ranked police" in group ranked and would patrol the queue. A lot of the times when we would catch people doing shady stuff, we would zone in and be vs only one person and sometimes no one at all. We had a few good laughs hunting these kinds of people.

 

It's so funny cause we had a similar joke in Ruining Lives. I can honestly say I miss the Acklays, there aren't really fun matches on NA at least since they called it quits.

 

As a side note, there are so many people in this thread that either only do solos or regs, but they're telling people who actually queued hundreds of team ranked games how team ranked works. What a joke...

Edited May 25, 2019 by SlimeyDoom

[SlimeyDoom]

I sort of do that in regs to queue dodge a certain guild I don’t want on my team. They always run a premade and you always lose if they are on your team.

 

It's just so amazing to me how a thread can be about ENTIRELY about group ranked but some people manage to find a way to bring their regs experience into it because they don't actually do team ranked. I'm actually impressed, 7/10.

[KendraP]

I've never been to space and yet I know the earth orbits the sun.

 

Some things are can be derived from limited experience, common sense, and basic reasoning.

 

@zur: the obvious implication is that if you can manipulate the queue to get matched against someone, hypothetically speaking you could also manipulate it to not get matched with someone; further, the very fact you mention "policing" the queue proves the very point I'm making. You can manipulate the queue to give you what you want, without violating any rules.

[SlimeyDoom]

I've never been to space and yet I know the earth orbits the sun.

 

Some things are can be derived from limited experience, common sense, and basic reasoning.

 

So some people who have done team ranked on top tier teams for years are automatically wrong about the game mode they have experience in because someone who only does regs made a forum post.

 

It's time to get rid of all the doctors in the world, people can just read WebMD and be just as qualified to make diagnoses

[KendraP]

So some people who have done team ranked on top tier teams for years are automatically wrong about the game mode they have experience in because someone who only does regs made a forum post.

 

It's time to get rid of all the doctors in the world, people can just read WebMD and be just as qualified to make diagnoses

 

I am merely going off what he himself said, and you agreed with. If he can police the queue, it works the other way too, and for everyone.

 

And I can get an advil whenever I want, or should I need a doctor to tell me I need a prescription for every headache too?

[SlimeyDoom]

I am merely going off what he himself said, and you agreed with. If he can police the queue, it works the other way too, and for everyone.

 

And I can get an advil whenever I want, or should I need a doctor to tell me I need a prescription for every headache too?

 

If you were actually a member of a top tier ranked team like either me or zurules were, maybe you could comment on what does and doesn't go on in ranked. But you don't, please just stop explaining to us what goes on in team ranked. We're well aware, as we've played it, unlike you

[KendraP]

If you were actually a member of a top tier ranked team like either me or zurules were, maybe you could comment on what does and doesn't go on in ranked. But you don't, please just stop explaining to us what goes on in team ranked. We're well aware, as we've played it, unlike you

 

He said

if they were in queue, we would queue to try and break it up. We sort of had a joke that we were the "ranked police" in group ranked and would patrol the queue

 

That is from zur, not me. The simple extrapolation is that because by self admission he is queue manipulating, someone else can too.

 

And PS: I have played ranked before. I'm even on the leaderboard from s9

Edited May 25, 2019 by KendraP

[SlimeyDoom]

That is from zur, not me. The simple extrapolation is that because by self admission he is queue manipulating, someone else can too.

 

He's very obviously talking about queuing when known win traders are trying to cheat to break it up. This is not queue manipulation. If you played group ranked, you would know that's not queue manipulation. It's called queue sniping, and it made it harder for people to blatantly cheat. You don't know what you're talking about

[Argileon]

remove pvp forums

 

Irrelevant opinions of casual regstars

I feel bad for zurules. The only relevant guy that constantly posts on the forums.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Argileon

[Zurules]

I've never been to space and yet I know the earth orbits the sun.

 

Some things are can be derived from limited experience, common sense, and basic reasoning.

 

@zur: the obvious implication is that if you can manipulate the queue to get matched against someone, hypothetically speaking you could also manipulate it to not get matched with someone; further, the very fact you mention "policing" the queue proves the very point I'm making. You can manipulate the queue to give you what you want, without violating any rules.

 

Manipulating the queue in the sense that you queue when only 2 teams (total) are in queue so you know you will go vs who you want, is the only scenario of manipulation that I see as true. The part that I have a hard time trying to relate is your idea of manipulating the queue to NOT get matched which someone. The only way to NOT get matched vs someone is to not be in the queue and I don't see how that is manipulating the queue. Your just not participating.

 

That is from zur, not me. The simple extrapolation is that because by self admission he is queue manipulating, someone else can too.

 

You do understand that "policing" the queue means to literally just being in the queue. We sit in queue and if people are trying to cheat and wintrade, they are choosing to run the risk of going vs us and almost certainly would lose which is exactly what they are trying to avoid.

 

When my team decides to queue up for group ranked to break up supposed wintrading, or just to see if 4's are popping. How you manage to call that my "self admission to manipulating the queue" is truly beyond me. I must say trying to understand how you manage to get these "simple extrapolations", is ironically the most complicated part to me to figure out.

 

It reminds me of the mystery of how "skank tanks" was (still is for me) the term used for dps specs using guard to "tank" (hence the skank), but somehow today that term is being used for ACTUAL tank specs who just use dps gear. I'd love to try and understand the person who started the transition from its original meaning to the one used today by most of you. This is another mystery that I find amusing and hard to understand at the same time.

[Lhancelot]

I don't really see the point of the last bit of argument about team ranked, and player relevancy. Why are you guy's arguing about who is "relevant" and who is not?

 

Anyone with that mentality probably is a kid tbh and this is a reminder why you can't expect the players to "police" themselves when many of the players in ranked themselves are of this juvenile selfish mentality.

 

The discussion really ought to be on what can be done to improve the game at this point, not who is relevant and allowed to post on certain topics or not. Sometimes people offer knowledge and you can learn from them, even from those we might think we know more than.

 

Also, if someone wrote something wrong, feel free to address it in a post explaining how/why instead of just saying other people have no voice here and being a condescending douche.

[Argileon]

I don't really see the point of the last bit of argument about team ranked, and player relevancy. Why are you guy's arguing about who is "relevant" and who is not?

 

Anyone with that mentality probably is a kid tbh and this is a reminder why you can't expect the players to "police" themselves when many of the players in ranked themselves are of this juvenile selfish mentality.

 

The discussion really ought to be on what can be done to improve the game at this point, not who is relevant and allowed to post on certain topics or not. Sometimes people offer knowledge and you can learn from them, even from those we might think we know more than.

 

Also, if someone wrote something wrong, feel free to address it in a post explaining how/why instead of just saying other people have no voice here and being a condescending douche.

You are wrong.

[Darkrebellord]

the real issue is not ranked war zones rather the balance of the matches, game bugs, server lags as well as the abnormal game play of other gamers who want to use cheating tools to exploiting the features of the game for personal benefits,

 

These are the ones that are saying this game too easy it too easy because your cheating that why.

 

Most gamer are not cheating and they are no saying its easy they are just bored with daily contents

[foxmob]

I've never been to space and yet I know the earth orbits the sun.

 

Some things are can be derived from limited experience, common sense, and basic reasoning.

 

@zur: the obvious implication is that if you can manipulate the queue to get matched against someone, hypothetically speaking you could also manipulate it to not get matched with someone; further, the very fact you mention "policing" the queue proves the very point I'm making. You can manipulate the queue to give you what you want, without violating any rules.

 

to be fair, most ppl don't do team ranked, even though I consider them to be high caliber players. I assume it's because they know they're NOT as good as the 2-3 teams already in the queue.

 

I CAN say with certainty that this is what happened in 8v8 ranked. It happened during every step of the process (from one server merger to another). it would have happened in the "Renaissance" of 8v8 ranked when they allowed server transfers, except within a few weeks of paid transfers, BW announced the death of 8v8 (you know, after they sucked the transfer fees from all the teams who still wanted to play).

 

once the elite teams establish themselves, NOBODY wants to face them. they're often in the same guild as other high caliber players, but mysteriously, those other players NEVER want to form up a grp and play their guildies (which would be incredibly easy in 4v4). the only time I've ever seen that happen was when caprica played one night with a team from a lesser guild AGAINST his regular guild. that was it. iunno. maybe that was just the 3 servers I played on (due to mergers). but it was pretty obvious what was happening. I don't think the 4v4 format has changed anything.

 

and for the most part, the great promise of ranked was getting games against teams of similar skill. that never really materialized in any format (solos, 8v8 preseason, grp 4v4). and it always comes down to dwindling participation.

 

I would say get rid of regs altogether. they wouldn't have to change the 8v8 matchmaking very much. keep the grp and role selection rules the same as they are. if you want to have complete control, you can do grp ranked. the only issue is do you keep grp 4v4, 8v8, or (gulp) create 2 grp queues? but seriously, it's not get rid of ranked. it's get rid of regs.

 

...or maybe that would finally kill what's left of the pvp population. hehe

[DavidAtkinson]

to be fair, most ppl don't do team ranked, even though I consider them to be high caliber players. I assume it's because they know they're NOT as good as the 2-3 teams already in the queue.

 

I CAN say with certainty that this is what happened in 8v8 ranked. It happened during every step of the process (from one server merger to another). it would have happened in the "Renaissance" of 8v8 ranked when they allowed server transfers, except within a few weeks of paid transfers, BW announced the death of 8v8 (you know, after they sucked the transfer fees from all the teams who still wanted to play).

 

once the elite teams establish themselves, NOBODY wants to face them. they're often in the same guild as other high caliber players, but mysteriously, those other players NEVER want to form up a grp and play their guildies (which would be incredibly easy in 4v4). the only time I've ever seen that happen was when caprica played one night with a team from a lesser guild AGAINST his regular guild. that was it. iunno. maybe that was just the 3 servers I played on (due to mergers). but it was pretty obvious what was happening. I don't think the 4v4 format has changed anything.

 

and for the most part, the great promise of ranked was getting games against teams of similar skill. that never really materialized in any format (solos, 8v8 preseason, grp 4v4). and it always comes down to dwindling participation.

 

I would say get rid of regs altogether. they wouldn't have to change the 8v8 matchmaking very much. keep the grp and role selection rules the same as they are. if you want to have complete control, you can do grp ranked. the only issue is do you keep grp 4v4, 8v8, or (gulp) create 2 grp queues? but seriously, it's not get rid of ranked. it's get rid of regs.

 

...or maybe that would finally kill what's left of the pvp population. hehe

 

Yeah you're right... No one wants to lose 50 times for some mats, 20 losses with some wins in between was perfect before they changed the weekly/dailies...

 

Also getting rid of regs would be the final nail in the PVP community's coffin as the majority who que don't want to be around/bothered by elitist, toxic ranked players....

[Zurules]

And even if some dodging existed - it is NOT AGAINST RULLES. every team may decide when to queue and when to stop queueing.

 

Healer/tank or dps games also matters. From my own experience getting top spots on marauder/sentinel - i was dodging pure dps games (4 dps vs 4 dps games) because i know advantages and disadvantages of my class - it is powerful killing machine with a healer support but squishy, easy killable class in pure dps fights. So of course i was dodging dps games and was queueing mostly when healers were queueing lol. Queueing on scoundrel when there are tank/heal games was bad since scoundrel is more a support class, it can't do much damage compared to marauder so on this class i was dodging heal/tank games. Thanks to this and many other tricks i managed to get highest spots during seasons. So be sure - highrated players dodge in solo ranked TOO.

 

Choosing not to queue is not against the rules. This a fully agree with you. In a team ranked context, choosing not to queue is problematic to me if the reason you are choosing to not queue is because you dont want to face a better team than you. If you get top 3 in group ranked without playing any of the top teams on your server because you are dodging them, then to me you don't deserve that title one bit.

 

In solo ranked, I've never heard of a player use dodging in the context of avoiding the types of matchups (healer, tanks, dps). Mara/sent is arguably the best melee dps class in the game and is almost never the weak link in 4 v 4 dps games (they might be the weak link if they have 3 mandos on their team and they are vs 4 mandos, small chance of this happening). Since, a majority of games that pop in solo ranked are 4 dps vs 4 dps, I'm curious how you even know with a high degree of certainty that you won't get a 4 dps vs 4 dps game even if you know healers or tanks are in queue? Can you elaborate on how you did this please?

[foxmob]

Yeah you're right... No one wants to lose 50 times for some mats, 20 losses with some wins in between was perfect before they changed the weekly/dailies...

 

Also getting rid of regs would be the final nail in the PVP community's coffin as the majority who que don't want to be around/bothered by elitist, toxic ranked players....

why? making everything rated changes nothing. those toxic ranked players you mention...they're already in regs. they're the ones TDMing and globalling ppl at mid in <insert map here>. this gives them incentive to play the map. it gives everyone incentive to play the map. and hey, if you don't gaf about the whole rating thing? go ahead and leave the map you don't like or the players you don't like just like you do now in regs. who cares?

 

but here's what you do: stop showing the full )(#(^ing rankings. All you need to EVER show is the top 20 or 50. that's it. and even that might be too much. only a handful of players are actually competing with each other for "top 3." there's no need to show an individual's rank to anyone else if they're not in contention for a meaningful title (e.g., all-galaxy).

 

oh. and good luck queue dodging (goods or bads) when the entire population is in play.

 

or you could piss and moan about whatever the hell you're on about now.

Edited May 26, 2019 by foxmob

[TrixxieTriss]

but here's what you do: stop showing the full )(#(^ing rankings. All you need to EVER show is the top 20 or 50. that's it. and even that might be too much. only a handful of players are actually competing with each other for "top 3." there's no need to show an individual's rank to anyone else if they're not in contention for a meaningful title (e.g., all-galaxy).

 

 

Actually, that’s not a bad idea.

 

If they didn’t publicly show “everyone’s” link, it may reduce some toxicity and stifle some wintrading too.

 

All you need at the top 50 ranks shown on the website, not 5000+

 

People could still privately see their own ranking in the game on their stats. But only they would see it.

[foxmob]

it's a suggestion that was tabled years ago. it won't happen. even though they supposedly have some such rankings for everyone.

[TrixxieTriss]

it's a suggestion that was tabled years ago. it won't happen. even though they supposedly have some such rankings for everyone.

 

I would love to privately see what my own skill ranking is for regs

But I would not want others to see it because I wouldn’t want them to see how bad I really am

[Friend-Referral]

He's very obviously talking about queuing when known win traders are trying to cheat to break it up. This is not queue manipulation. If you played group ranked, you would know that's not queue manipulation. It's called queue sniping, and it made it harder for people to blatantly cheat. You don't know what you're talking about

Que manipulation, que sniping, it's all semantics. Queing to go up against mat farmers and other players trying to wintrade to pad your precious elo is a form of manipulation.

 

Definition of manipulate

transitive verb

 

1 : to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner

manipulate a pencil

manipulate a machine

2a : to manage or utilize skillfully

quantify our data and manipulate it statistically

— S. L. Payne

b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage

being used and manipulated by the knowing men around him

— New Republic

3 : to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose : DOCTOR

suspected that the police reports were manipulated

— Evelyn G. Cruickshanks

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by ColorfulCaiques

[Friend-Referral]

Manipulating the queue in the sense that you queue when only 2 teams (total) are in queue so you know you will go vs who you want, is the only scenario of manipulation that I see as true. The part that I have a hard time trying to relate is your idea of manipulating the queue to NOT get matched which someone. The only way to NOT get matched vs someone is to not be in the queue and I don't see how that is manipulating the queue. Your just not participating.

 

 

 

You do understand that "policing" the queue means to literally just being in the queue. We sit in queue and if people are trying to cheat and wintrade, they are choosing to run the risk of going vs us and almost certainly would lose which is exactly what they are trying to avoid.

 

When my team decides to queue up for group ranked to break up supposed wintrading, or just to see if 4's are popping. How you manage to call that my "self admission to manipulating the queue" is truly beyond me. I must say trying to understand how you manage to get these "simple extrapolations", is ironically the most complicated part to me to figure out.

 

It reminds me of the mystery of how "skank tanks" was (still is for me) the term used for dps specs using guard to "tank" (hence the skank), but somehow today that term is being used for ACTUAL tank specs who just use dps gear. I'd love to try and understand the person who started the transition from its original meaning to the one used today by most of you. This is another mystery that I find amusing and hard to understand at the same time.

Semantics.

 

Definition of manipulate

transitive verb

 

1 : to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner

manipulate a pencil

manipulate a machine

2a : to manage or utilize skillfully

quantify our data and manipulate it statistically

— S. L. Payne

b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage

being used and manipulated by the knowing men around him

— New Republic

3 : to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose : DOCTOR

suspected that the police reports were manipulated

— Evelyn G. Cruickshanks

 

You're "policing" the que, you're "que sniping". It's all semantics. You are manipulating the que.