Is It Time To Get Rid of Ranked for Good?

[omeru]

To call that abomintion as ranked pvp first there should be an actual matchmaking. Where full below 1k team playing against full gold tier players, one team with no healer, one team with top 3 healer other with 900 rating healer is not ranked. It is just regs with cartel market below bronze quality rewards and toxic players. This **** cant be named as ranked, it is regs arenas that is all. Zero ****s are given by BW and soon there wont be ranked since it is getting worse and worse.

[Lhancelot]

I am not claiming that if you have alts you wintrade. What I meant was that the PVPers are in the game for some time and they experienced the time of the game when it was easy to make alts, fun to play lowbies and gather PVP coms etc. They played during all this time and therefore have alts at their disposal. This only helps them in cheating cause you have throw-away toons that can be missused this way.

 

This post really made me feel a bit of sadness.

 

All it did was not only make your point clear about the misunderstanding but it concisely reminded me how far the game has fallen from just a few years ago.

 

By listing some of the grandest features the game once had along with this being when gameplay was enjoyable and fairly fresh and more importantly fun.

 

Oh, to the point of the thread, no they ought to just change how they keep track of rating or score it. Clearly it's not possible to stop the manipulation of ELO.

 

ELO doesn't prove how adept a player is on a toon in SWTOR PVP though, and that's the whole purpose, right? If this point of the system is defunct then it's not working correctly and that means it needs changed to a system that better represents a player's actual skill or at the very least indicate a degree of difficulty or work put in for top titles and rewards.

 

As the ranked system stands right now, the only people who benefit with how it's operating are the wintraders and cheats/hacks. The scoring system should not be set up this way, where it's rewarding the cheaters far more frequently than the honest and legit players. Sharkfishman also stated something similar to this last point, and it's true.

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

ELO here seems more apt to indicate mostly one thing, whether the toon was likely wintraded or not.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Lhancelot

[merovejec]

As the ranked system stands right now, the only people who benefit with how it's operating are the wintraders and cheats/hacks.

 

We do not want to claim all top 3s are wintraders, but what I am trying to say in all the other threads is that you wont get up the leaderboards if you just que at any time. If the people really were legit and got a top 3 they did it with a huge effort of checking who is in que, who is online, if there is que syncing going on, botting going on etc. They had to check what classes are in que to know if to que Sin or Merc and much more.

 

Still, this cannot be like that. Top 3 should be about the players skills and not about strategic quing with specific classes at specific times....

[Lhancelot]

We do not want to claim all top 3s are wintraders, but what I am trying to say in all the other threads is that you wont get up the leaderboards if you just que at any time. If the people really were legit and got a top 3 they did it with a huge effort of checking who is in que, who is online, if there is que syncing going on, botting going on etc. They had to check what classes are in que to know if to que Sin or Merc and much more.

 

Still, this cannot be like that. Top 3 should be about the players skills and not about strategic quing with specific classes at specific times....

 

Well, no problem I have no qualms about writing it for you, I believe the majority of top 3 titles have been cheated for, and if they really wanted to streamline and find who is cheating, investigate those toons.

 

Wouldn't they be able to track IPs to all the different toons, and then find even more unknown toons that those same players used for wintrading?

 

If you did nothing wrong, their investigation ought to bring zero trouble to those who legit got their top 3 titles and ELO.

 

I just think BW needs to stop pussyfooting around with this situation, ranked has only become less enjoyable over the years (like the entire game actually... hmm.)

 

If they revamped ranked PVP and how it's scored, it couldn't hurt the meta at this point. I bet ranked PVP is even less played than GSF at this point, and if not it ought to be. Just flip the sandbox on ranked, and start over!

 

There's still a lot of potential for this game if they take the right steps to get it back on track. Less grinding facets, more enjoyable gameplay features do need worked on though.

 

If BW listens to feedback, and fix the bugs in SWTOR they got a chance, if they ignore players again the next large game patch will really do some major damage to SWTOR imo.

[KendraP]

Well, no problem I have no qualms about writing it for you, I believe the majority of top 3 titles have been cheated for, and if they really wanted to streamline and find who is cheating, investigate those toons.

 

Wouldn't they be able to track IPs to all the different toons, and then find even more unknown toons that those same players used for wintrading?

 

If you did nothing wrong, their investigation ought to bring zero trouble to those who legit got their top 3 titles and ELO.

 

I just think BW needs to stop pussyfooting around with this situation, ranked has only become less enjoyable over the years (like the entire game actually... hmm.)

 

If they revamped ranked PVP and how it's scored, it couldn't hurt the meta at this point. I bet ranked PVP is even less played than GSF at this point, and if not it ought to be. Just flip the sandbox on ranked, and start over!

 

There's still a lot of potential for this game if they take the right steps to get it back on track. Less grinding facets, more enjoyable gameplay features do need worked on though.

 

If BW listens to feedback, and fix the bugs in SWTOR they got a chance, if they ignore players again the next large game patch will really do some major damage to SWTOR imo.

 

i agree with the concept, but cheating is hardly the only reason ratings are meaningless. take your choice between blatant cheating, low population, the fact you can easily check who's queuing, and plenty more.

[DavidAtkinson]

Well, no problem I have no qualms about writing it for you, I believe the majority of top 3 titles have been cheated for, and if they really wanted to streamline and find who is cheating, investigate those toons.

 

Wouldn't they be able to track IPs to all the different toons, and then find even more unknown toons that those same players used for wintrading?

 

If you did nothing wrong, their investigation ought to bring zero trouble to those who legit got their top 3 titles and ELO.

 

I just think BW needs to stop pussyfooting around with this situation, ranked has only become less enjoyable over the years (like the entire game actually... hmm.)

 

If they revamped ranked PVP and how it's scored, it couldn't hurt the meta at this point. I bet ranked PVP is even less played than GSF at this point, and if not it ought to be. Just flip the sandbox on ranked, and start over!

 

There's still a lot of potential for this game if they take the right steps to get it back on track. Less grinding facets, more enjoyable gameplay features do need worked on though.

 

If BW listens to feedback, and fix the bugs in SWTOR they got a chance, if they ignore players again the next large game patch will really do some major damage to SWTOR imo.

 

"If they revamped ranked PVP and how it's scored, it couldn't hurt the meta at this point. I bet ranked PVP is even less played than GSF at this point, and if not it ought to be. Just flip the sandbox on ranked, and start over! "

 

That could make the current ranked players quit the game too... You've probably seen their reaction to the threads where point system was suggested instead of elo for ranking players.

 

If you think of it points system would actually be compatible with the current grindy nature of ranked. I mean if you get gold you might not have enough comms ot buy a decent reward and also, you'd have to grind yourself to the top... and won't be able to do so with 15 wins as in the current system.

[JediMasterAlex]

it's rewarding the cheaters far more frequently than the honest and legit players.

 

This is probably true.

 

ELO here seems more apt to indicate mostly one thing, whether the toon was likely wintraded or not.

 

But this, and a lot of the other stuff you said, is really overstating the case. Even though I agree, and have said myself before, that a majority of top 3's wintrade, that doesn't mean anything close to a majority in general wintrade. We're talking about a few dozen wintraders among thousands of ranked players. The vast majority of players get their rankings in a legitimate fashion. And the vast majority of matches do not have wintraders, leavers, or throwers in them. I know this because I actually queue ranked, and I queue ranked more than anyone on my server.

 

i agree with the concept, but cheating is hardly the only reason ratings are meaningless. take your choice between blatant cheating, low population, the fact you can easily check who's queuing, and plenty more.

 

This kind of sentiment really only comes from people that can't get high ratings themselves. The truth is that there are exceedingly few blatant cheaters. As for low population and checking who's queueing, unless you are a tank or healer there is little benefit in doing so. Now that there is cross faction queues, you can't control who gets on your team as a dps. Certainly, there are a lot of variables, and any single game can be out of your hands no matter how well you play, which is true of virtually any online team game. But if you play enough games and you know what you're doing, you can gain rating.

 

That could make the current ranked players quit the game too... You've probably seen their reaction to the threads where point system was suggested instead of elo for ranking players.

 

Several of the people who have opposed such a system are admitted wintraders. I've said it before, but I am totally in favor of a revamped ranked points system that others have suggested. It would likely more accurately capture who is having consistent success in ranked.

[Lhancelot]

But this, and a lot of the other stuff you said, is really overstating the case. Even though I agree, and have said myself before, that a majority of top 3's wintrade, that doesn't mean anything close to a majority in general wintrade.

 

Thing is, if a competitive PVP game mode that is using a ELO styled scoring system for the participants is being blitzed by enough cheating players (even if it's only 10 or 20 actively cheating) that's enough to ruin any kind of legitimacy of the scoring system.

 

The present ELO system for ranked is garbage, it's useless and only adds tons of frustrations due to the fact such a small number of cheaters can actually ruin the entire contest for each and every legit player participating.

 

In my mind this isn't overstating anything because this only pushes people away from ranked, and the last thing SWTOR needs is one more facet that is deemed unworthy.

 

At least we both agree it's garbage, even if you believe my statements to be hyperbolic.

 

P.S. I realize some will scoff at the words "competitive PVP game" but that is the point of ranked. Whether or not someone agrees it is happens to be another story.

[JediMasterAlex]

Thing is, if a competitive PVP game mode that is using a ELO styled scoring system for the participants is being blitzed by enough cheating players (even if it's only 10 or 20 actively cheating) that's enough to ruin any kind of legitimacy of the scoring system.

 

The present ELO system for ranked is garbage, it's useless and only adds tons of frustrations due to the fact such a small number of cheaters can actually ruin the entire contest for each and every legit player participating.

 

In my mind this isn't overstating anything because this only pushes people away from ranked, and the last thing SWTOR needs is one more facet that is deemed unworthy.

 

At least we both agree it's garbage, even if you believe my statements to be hyperbolic.

 

P.S. I realize some will scoff at the words "competitive PVP game" but that is the point of ranked. Whether or not someone agrees it is happens to be another story.

 

My main point is that your picture of doom and gloom when it comes to ranked does not match with my experience, and again, I actually queue ranked a lot (and am in the queue right now, as I am most of the time when I post on the forums).

 

You can play dozens and dozens of matches that are totally legit and never run into any cheating or wintrading nonsense at all. Obviously if you play enough you will run into such things, but that's true in any online game.

 

Bioware needs to do a better job policing wintrading and hacking. They also should strongly consider changing the elo system as you and others have suggested. But in my opinion even the flawed version of ranked that exists right now is quite fun to play, and still more or less functions in the way that it should.

[Lundorff]

My main point is that your picture of doom and gloom when it comes to ranked does not match with my experience, and again, I actually queue ranked a lot (and am in the queue right now, as I am most of the time when I post on the forums).

 

You can play dozens and dozens of matches that are totally legit and never run into any cheating or wintrading nonsense at all. Obviously if you play enough you will run into such things, but that's true in any online game.

 

Bioware needs to do a better job policing wintrading and hacking. They also should strongly consider changing the elo system as you and others have suggested. But in my opinion even the flawed version of ranked that exists right now is quite fun to play, and still more or less functions in the way that it should.

 

Even when there are no trolls or wintraders, we still have to deal with:

 

• Completely clueless people who barely should play regs
  
• The match starting without healer / tank on one side
  
• 3-4 ranged vs. 3-4 melee
  
• Lack of gear
  

 

They clearly don't have the manpower nor technical resources to fix this, and they should settle on what would cause the least amount of problems:

 

• Easy access to gear (3.3 - 4.x) or bolster above BiS or something similar
  
• A point system instead or ELO. Anything that rewards wins but doesn't punish losses
  
• Maybe a gear gateway instead of valor
  

 

6.0 is their make it or break it moment.

[JediMasterAlex]

Even when there are no trolls or wintraders, we still have to deal with:

 

• Completely clueless people who barely should play regs
  
• The match starting without healer / tank on one side
  
• 3-4 ranged vs. 3-4 melee
  
• Lack of gear
  

 

They clearly don't have the manpower nor technical resources to fix this, and they should settle on what would cause the least amount of problems:

 

• Easy access to gear (3.3 - 4.x) or bolster above BiS or something similar
  
• A point system instead or ELO. Anything that rewards wins but doesn't punish losses
  
• Maybe a gear gateway instead of valor
  

 

6.0 is their make it or break it moment.

 

I don't think gear is that big of an issue due to how well bolster works, but for the rest of it I completely agree. There are still big problems that require solutions. Hopefully Bioware will make some changes eventually.

[foxmob]

I don't think gear is that big of an issue due to how well bolster works, but for the rest of it I completely agree.

 

not speaking for ranked, but this is certainly true in general for low end gear. You can be in 230s and still be reasonably sturdy as well as do reasonable dmg in a WZ.

 

there is a noticeable difference in full 252+ gear in IO spec. not so much in Arsenal. I'm guessing that's more a reflection of increased alacrity though. so it really is spec specific in that case. and that's the only case in which straight ilvl increase has been very evident to me.

 

/moving further OT...

 

HOWEVER, bolster remains broken. There's no clear and obvious path for maximizing bolster. There's been plenty of chatter in this forum about the fact that simply chasing ilvl (the most intuitive thing!) does not balance bolster. Others have posted that max ilvl in one slot but not in others. BW, for some reason, cannot make a clear post about it. I guess they think it's part of the experimentation angle of min/maxing gear (another thing that they cut the legs out from under when they locked mods/enh to slot -- a very childish and transparent ploy that prevents me from gearing any other ACs!).

 

I won't lie. This is the most balanced gear/bolster has ever been in my experience. The big problems are

1. min/maxing is FAR too costly
   
2. mechanics of bolster remain mystified (seemingly intentionally be BW), and...
   
3. the gear grind required for PvP is ridiculously reliant on PvE activity (or, worse, GSF!)
   

Edited May 14, 2019 by foxmob

[JediMasterAlex]

I won't lie. This is the most balanced gear/bolster has ever been in my experience. The big problems are

1. min/maxing is FAR too costly
   
2. mechanics of bolster remain mystified (seemingly intentionally be BW), and...
   
3. the gear grind required for PvP is ridiculously reliant on PvE activity (or, worse, GSF!)
   

 

Yeah, and to be clear, just because I think bolster is working pretty well, doesn't mean I'm necessarily defending the current gearing situation. I got a 258 set for my main months ago, but I understand others' frustrations.

 

You're right about bolster being somewhat mysterious, but the reality is that the differences between people in different kinds of gear is relatively small. Assuming everyone's mainhand weapon is the same, if you have someone in 230 gear, 248 gear, 254 gear, and 258 gear, they are all going to perform virtually identically in a given warzone, assuming they make some effort to allocate their stats properly.

 

As others have pointed out, very few ranked pvpers are in full 258 gear. As I said, my main is in full 258, mainly because I just like the idea of having the best gear, and min/maxing is fun for me. I also have a mirror that is about 250 or something (because of low-level left side items). I notice almost no difference in performance. Sure, 258 gives you a slight advantage, and maybe it comes into play once every 100 matches, where that little bit of extra damage or health makes the difference, but it's not a game breaking issue.

Edited May 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

That could make the current ranked players quit the game too... You've probably seen their reaction to the threads where point system was suggested instead of elo for ranking players.

 

I have. I hate to be a pessimist, but to me it reeks of someone that is sitting on top of the gold mine who doesn't want to share the loots.

 

I think some people have too much to gain from how ELO is scored in the present ranked scoring system.

 

Whether it's financial by cheating to sell rewards/accounts or it's just a simple greediness for pixels knowing no one else can get their shinies while the system is such a cakewalk to cheat and game.

 

Whether it's 5 or 50, some players have really got a strong grip on the contest and it just seems some of these players have found ways to cheat for top ELO regardless what BW tries to do to stop them.

 

It doesn't take a majority to totally wreck the contest, just a small amount of this behavior really has cataclysmic effects on the attitude of ranked.

 

I believe some players end up joining the cheaters while some simply get so frustrated they stop queing for ranked. Even the best of the best can struggle to reach top ELO legitimately and so some of them cheat too.

 

Again, this proves my opinion about SWTOR "ELO," and that is that it's totally busted and garbage. ELO here adds not one bit of legitimacy to a player's skill when so many variables are what constitute what a player's rating is.

 

Some variables that determine ELO: How many wintraders are in the queue, does my team have a wintrader that drops the match or gets globaled deliberately? How many people quit before the match begin and how many times does my match start when I have 3 or less players to start the match with?

 

Any wintrade activity can destroy someone's evening thanks to losses being so damaging. No player should be punished so hard on losses of ELO/rating when the stability of the very contest is so insecure.

 

I can go on and on, what's the point.

[TrixxieTriss]

 

HOWEVER, bolster remains broken. There's no clear and obvious path for maximizing bolster. There's been plenty of chatter in this forum about the fact that simply chasing ilvl (the most intuitive thing!) does not balance bolster. Others have posted that max ilvl in one slot but not in others. BW, for some reason, cannot make a clear post about it. I guess they think it's part of the experimentation angle of min/maxing gear (another thing that they cut the legs out from under when they locked mods/enh to slot -- a very childish and transparent ploy that prevents me from gearing any other ACs!).

 

This should be no surprise to anyone whose been here for a long time.

Bioware have never made clear posts regarding Bolster. They leave it up to players to work out and then spread the word.

You know, Bioware never even explained expertises properly and left it up to players to try and explain it to people in the game. This was what caused so much contention around expertise because there was no official place in the game to learn about it.

 

I’ve tried my best to test Bolster and post my findings. I’ve spent many millions of credits and many hours doing so.

There is a thread that I made to help people stream line what they are doing. I tried not to make it to convoluted, but sadly, Bolster as its always been is convoluted.

 

The “easiest” way to closely min/max bolstered gear is this :

252-258 mainhand weapons as soon as you can

230 gear with 228 Augments to adjust secondary stats.

Don’t use 236 Augments. Especially not Mastery because the empty slot is bolstered to a 236 Mastery Augment

Don’t mix 252-258 gear with bolstered gear until you can take your total gear lvl above 252.

 

That’s the easiest way. But not the only way and it won’t 100% min/max everything. If you have 236-248 gear, you can tinker with the gear to squeeze out about 1-1.5% more stats. But they are so minor, that it’s really not worth it to just min/max.

Edited May 15, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Seterade]

one quick comment here, to OPs question.

 

I would 100% cancel my sub and never come back if this happened. and I have an excellent reason for such a reaction. I do not login to swtor in 2019 to do anything but ranked. I dont do regs, I dont do story, I dont do gf, or ops. I login, I do ranked and I logout till it pops again. my sub and time would be better spent cleaning out my cats litter box if ranked disappeared. I would unsub and never look back at this game for anything.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Seterade

[sharkfishman]

one quick comment here, to OPs question.

 

I would 100% cancel my sub and never come back if this happened. and I have an excellent reason for such a reaction. I do not login to swtor in 2019 to do anything but ranked. I dont do regs, I dont do story, I dont do gf, or ops. I login, I do ranked and I logout till it pops again. my sub and time would be better spent cleaning out my cats litter box if ranked disappeared. I would unsub and never look back at this game for anything.

 

This is a legitimate feeling, since we all want the game to cater to us. However, that's not really an excuse for continuance of what is a deeply-flawed game mode. I've put forth several ideas in the thread as to how they could adapt to provide the challenge legitimate ranked players are looking for, but the current system is like a rotten apple. It's not worth saving as is, and the resources required to properly police it are too costly.

[foxmob]

I prefer the inverse extreme solution: make everything ranked.

 

that would include, of course, every WZ. I might not quit 9/10 Odessen WZs if they counted for something.

[Lhancelot]

one quick comment here, to OPs question.

 

I would 100% cancel my sub and never come back if this happened. and I have an excellent reason for such a reaction. I do not login to swtor in 2019 to do anything but ranked. I dont do regs, I dont do story, I dont do gf, or ops. I login, I do ranked and I logout till it pops again. my sub and time would be better spent cleaning out my cats litter box if ranked disappeared. I would unsub and never look back at this game for anything.

 

btw, I tend to clean my cat litter boxes much more frequently since I stopped playing SWTOR. I am sure you will do the same. I also do lots of other things but that's another topic!

 

For the OP I will repeat something I said earlier, no ranked should not be removed, it has a lot of promise, even I can see it and I am more of a regs player than ranked but if they made ranked more enjoyable and fair of a contest I would probably play it more often.

 

The game mode can be improved upon and find success.

 

I despise the shenanigans that go on in ranked though and there are just so many ways people can screw up a match and they do. It's too frustrating.

[sharkfishman]

btw, I tend to clean my cat litter boxes much more frequently since I stopped playing SWTOR. I am sure you will do the same. I also do lots of other things but that's another topic!

 

For the OP I will repeat something I said earlier, no ranked should not be removed, it has a lot of promise, even I can see it and I am more of a regs player than ranked but if they made ranked more enjoyable and fair of a contest I would probably play it more often.

 

The game mode can be improved upon and find success.

 

I despise the shenanigans that go on in ranked though and there are just so many ways people can screw up a match and they do. It's too frustrating.

What is the difference between ranked arenas and regular arenas?

 

Are there traps that make it more dangerous?

Are the queues limited to players of a higher ELO?

 

LOL. There's literally no difference, except for the leaderboards, which are easily manipulated and do NOT reflect the skill of the player in most cases. What they DO reflect (talking about SR, of course, not TR) is A. how lucky the specific character has been, B. how likely it is that the person has wintraded.

 

If you change the scoring system (a great idea) to make wintrading harder, then what is the point of a separate "ranked" queue?

[JediMasterAlex]

LOL. There's literally no difference, except for the leaderboards, which are easily manipulated and do NOT reflect the skill of the player in most cases. What they DO reflect (talking about SR, of course, not TR) is A. how lucky the specific character has been, B. how likely it is that the person has wintraded.

 

Again, I feel obligated to dispute this kind of thinking. I understand where it comes from, because the current ranked system is seriously flawed, and there are a lot of things they could change to improve it.

 

Sometimes players do get lucky in their first 10 games and get a much higher rating than their skill-level. Sometimes people wintrade to get higher ratings. Both of those groups only make up a minority of the people with high ratings (depends on what you mean by high I guess). For the very, very highest ratings, yes, there is a lot of ******** going on, but it's not as if everyone with a rating of 1400 and higher are all cheating in same way. Most of those players are legit, and some of them have a lot of games played. If someone is rated say 1450, and has 200 wins, that's very likely to be legit. It's the players that are 1700 with 30 wins that are the likely culprits.

[sharkfishman]

Again, I feel obligated to dispute this kind of thinking. I understand where it comes from, because the current ranked system is seriously flawed, and there are a lot of things they could change to improve it.

 

Sometimes players do get lucky in their first 10 games and get a much higher rating than their skill-level. Sometimes people wintrade to get higher ratings. Both of those groups only make up a minority of the people with high ratings (depends on what you mean by high I guess). For the very, very highest ratings, yes, there is a lot of ******** going on, but it's not as if everyone with a rating of 1400 and higher are all cheating in same way. Most of those players are legit, and some of them have a lot of games played. If someone is rated say 1450, and has 200 wins, that's very likely to be legit. It's the players that are 1700 with 30 wins that are the likely culprits.

I agree completely. That was my point.

 

Many excellent players with 200+ wins are sitting at around 1200 rating. Some get lucky and make it 1400. Anything above that suggests the player strategically queues (should NOT be a skill required to perform well in ranked, and isn't good for the system itself) or you-know-what.

[sharkfishman]

If someone is rated say 1450, and has 200 wins, that's very likely to be legit. It's the players that are 1700 with 30 wins that are the likely culprits.

 

Sorry, I probably should have just edited my original reply. I just wanted to provide the evidence for what I said.

 

If you go to the ranked WZ arena leaderboards and organize by total wins instead of rating, the results are pretty telling.

 

Why are players with 200, 300, 400 and more wins punished for actually participating extensively? I know several of those players firsthand (if you play on their servers or check out Twitch, you probably do too) are excellent. The only difference is they like to PVP and generally take all pops instead of declining, quitting strategically, etc.

[JediMasterAlex]

Sorry, I probably should have just edited my original reply. I just wanted to provide the evidence for what I said.

 

If you go to the ranked WZ arena leaderboards and organize by total wins instead of rating, the results are pretty telling.

 

Why are players with 200, 300, 400 and more wins punished for actually participating extensively? I know several of those players firsthand (if you play on their servers or check out Twitch, you probably do too) are excellent. The only difference is they like to PVP and generally take all pops instead of declining, quitting strategically, etc.

 

I mean, I mostly agree. I'm one of those players with hundreds of wins. What happens is my rating changes drastically. Sometimes I'll lose 100 rating in a few days, then I'll gain it back, etc. I guess what I am saying though is if one player has 200 wins and is 1400, and another player has 200 wins and is 1200, there's probably more than luck involved in that difference. The 1400 player probably is a bit better. So it's not like rating means absolutely nothing.

[sharkfishman]

I mean, I mostly agree. I'm one of those players with hundreds of wins. What happens is my rating changes drastically. Sometimes I'll lose 100 rating in a few days, then I'll gain it back, etc. I guess what I am saying though is if one player has 200 wins and is 1400, and another player has 200 wins and is 1200, there's probably more than luck involved in that difference. The 1400 player probably is a bit better. So it's not like rating means absolutely nothing.

 

This is your personal perception, nothing more.

 

Take a quick look at the leaderboards. Tell me how many players with 1500 rating or above have even 100 wins. How many have more than 50 wins?

 

You want to tell me they're at 1500 because they're better than the ones with 200 wins?

 

I mean, lol, how many players above 1500 rating can you even find that HAVE 200 wins?