The devs aren't ignoring us.

[Grimhand]

I've been seeing a lot of posts and threads cropping up about how BioWare is ignoring us, and not communicating, and how they only need to take 2 minutes of time to post...this just isn't so and I'll explain each briefly.

 

Myth: "It only takes 2 minutes for them to post an ETA/update/opinion/etc!"

 

FALSE. This assumes that each dev has the forums wired into their brain and sees every post in real time.

 

The reality? They aren't looking at forums the majority of the day, they are working on the game, looking at skyboxes and code, talking with their teams etc. They rely mostly on community managers to forward them relevant info so they can get to it later, unfortunately, by the time they are done their actual jobs, and get to sit down and read their e-mails/memos they won't have that much time to sift through the dozens of threads they get linked, let alone isolate posts and respond.

 

Have you guys SEEN the forums? Communication will get better, but right now the devs have a lot on their plate and it doesn't take "2 minutes to post" it takes much longer and requires them to not be working.

 

MYTH: "BioWare is ignoring us and they aren't communicating"

 

FALSE. While they may not give the play by play expected of veteran sports announcers, by using the dev tracker I can see dev posts (even from Georg Zoelller) on the highest priority and/or gamebreaking bugs atm such as the Bounty Hunter act 3 bug, or the Kira Carsen bug (which I am affected by). Again, what do you expect? Every time QA tries a new fix for them to alt tab and make a post? It isn't going to happen, that isn't their job, we get the most pertinent of info.

 

Also see Stephen Reid's post here : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=696184#edit696184 (Found via Dev Tracker)....see they do answer questions...he even answered a question about sitting in chairs.

 

 

Yes it can be frustrating that you aren't being given a live feed from BioWare Austin but you have to remember, you and even everyone using these forums combined are NOT the only source of player feedback, nor are they even a significant portion, the amount of in game tickets is probably astronomically greater than the amount of threads on the forums.

 

BioWare has 1 million customers to deal with atm, around the clock, from all over the world, you seeing 10-12 people posting in a 50 page thread and thinking that them not answering it is "neglectful" is a serious fallacy.

 

They just launched a MMO, EA and Mythic have already seen one fail, an BioWare has a lot riding on this game (and James Ohlen so far has an impeccable track record), give them a month or 2 for things to settle before we start seeing more regular and robust communication/ fixing the little things that YOU would like fixed.

 

TL;DR: Give them some time, and if you aren't willing to do that, seriously, you don't HAVE to play right now, take a break, and come back when things settle in a couple months, no one is going to punish you, your characters and the game aren't going anywhere and you haven't paid a monthly fee yet. If you didn't want to deal with MMO growing pains you should not have invested so much in a launch.

 

No MMO has a perfect launch, and this has been one of the best (seriously QQ about queues of getting into servers and almost NO server crashes QQ about downtime, that is like the opposite of most MMOs).

 

Be patient, and stay thirsty my friends.

[PowerElectronic]

nobody cares about what the great lord Stephen Reid has to say.

 

the list of things ****ed with this game is way to long to give them the benefit of doubt.

Edited December 29, 2011 by PowerElectronic

[photoheathen]

I'm willing to grant them some latitude and frankly I don't need them to talk directly to me. All I ask is for the very rare occasional comment from an actual developer and not just from the PR people on the other side of the building. A weekly or monthly 'dev chat' would do wonders.

 

More importantly though, from an '08 to a '09, you know as well as I do if you've spent any amount of time here that they aren't going to magically start talking to us. They never have, and they never will. It's naive to believe their extremely well established forum behavior and policies are going to change. They won't. We're in this alone, with Stephen/Amber/Allison until they move on. The devs...you might as well pretend like they don't exist. Sorry, but it is what it is.

Edited December 29, 2011 by photoheathen

[carthedani]

People have to remember the Devs cannot respond "off the cuff".

 

Responses have to be well-thought out, as they don't want to throw all their plans on the table at once......The ticket system/customer service from what I've seen is what needs to be fixed.

[PowerElectronic]

the amount of in game tickets is probably astronomically greater than the amount of threads on the forums.

 

i heard 99% of all stats are made up.

Edited December 29, 2011 by PowerElectronic

[KetMalice]

People have to remember the Devs cannot respond "off the cuff".

 

Responses have to be well-thought out, as they don't want to throw all their plans on the table at once......The ticket system/customer service from what I've seen is what needs to be fixed.

 

Yes they can. This is one thing that RIFT Devs did absolutely perfect. A Dev taking 5 minutes to post that he thinks Justin Bieber is a dork gives us a connection.

[Cactus]

The question is, whose ignoring this thread?

[Qoojo]

People have to remember the Devs cannot respond "off the cuff".

 

Responses have to be well-thought out, as they don't want to throw all their plans on the table at once......The ticket system/customer service from what I've seen is what needs to be fixed.

 

Responses beyond generic no information ones are a no win proposition. Because no matter the outcome, some child is going to get worked up over it. They can never give a time estimate for something because the vast majority of MMO players have no idea of what the word estimate means. It's impossible these days for a dev to communicate intelligently because of the players.

[Drudenfusz]

The devs could do a far better job in showing us that they do not ignore us. There are issues that were reported in beta and still have not taken care of. There are many you have still waiting that their issues they had written a ticket about to get solved. RIFT feel much better in this regard, the patches did cover much more than the patches in SWTOR have done so far.

[DarkTrooperV]

I have to agree with the OP. And before anyone goes: "OMGWTFNOOB?!UNEED2L2P" or some idiotic talk like that, the inner workings of the developers do not always give them time or give them time at all to talk to us.

 

Let me ask you this. You own a car. You have insurance with a car. You then have an accident. Do you sit there and ask your insurance agent: "Hey, I want to know what you're doing every second of the day"? Or do you put faith in your agent enough to know that you don't have need a communication with them when they tell you: "Ok, Mr. John Doe. We have all your information. Let us handle this. You might, might not hear from us. But you will have the check for the damages."

 

I would like to think you have faith in your agent if they are a good one and you have a good reporte with them. And the only time you would hear from them is when they call you to let you know, or send you a letter, saying you can pick up the check that was owed you. And there is the off chance they might need to contact you for a little more information, but that's not very often.

 

In a way, the same thing applies here. This isn't a perfect analogy. They devs may or may not get back to us. They know what needs to be fixed. Or at least have a good idea. Just have faith in them. They will let us know when they have something to report. Don't feel just because you deserve an answer they will give it to you. Life's not fair and in the words of the immortal Sten: "You'll get use to disappointment." Give Bioware a break. They are working hard enough without needing the abuse from people. Be appreciative of what you've been given. A great (not perfect, but great) game by a solid developer.

 

If that isn't good enough for you, then I'm sorry, there's the door to World of Warcraft. ---->

[Enginer]

nobody cares about what the great lord Stephen Reid has to say.

 

the list of things ****ed with this game is way to long to give them the benefit of doubt.

 

Have to agree, did my EV run last night - another week of no randomly dying, encounters bugging, broken loot boxes, and not completing my quest!

 

Endgame is so fun!

[TheBohunk]

Way too early to judge the quality of the devs. Edited December 29, 2011 by TheBohunk

[ominator]

I am sure they can spend 5 minutes a day reading the most important posts and affirming they read them and will be looking at them, giving out a bit more information in another 5 minutes.

The community manager can have their staff sort the postings and prepare a short 5 minute read for the devs that condenses the most common issues/complaints.

[Sinister-Sith]

These same issues are being posted in Customer Service, where they actually look. I am sure they take an occasional gander over here, but Customer Service forum is really the cream of the crop when it comes to feedback and development criticism.

 

I'd almost place the complaint threads in the same category as arguing about whether Greedo or Han Solo fired first in a My Little Pony forum.

[PowerElectronic]

I have to agree with the OP. And before anyone goes: "OMGWTFNOOB?!UNEED2L2P" or some idiotic talk like that, the inner workings of the developers do not always give them time or give them time at all to talk to us.

 

Let me ask you this. You own a car. You have insurance with a car. You then have an accident. Do you sit there and ask your insurance agent: "Hey, I want to know what you're doing every second of the day"? Or do you put faith in your agent enough to know that you don't have need a communication with them when they tell you: "Ok, Mr. John Doe. We have all your information. Let us handle this. You might, might not hear from us. But you will have the check for the damages."

 

I would like to think you have faith in your agent if they are a good one and you have a good reporte with them. And the only time you would hear from them is when they call you to let you know, or send you a letter, saying you can pick up the check that was owed you. And there is the off chance they might need to contact you for a little more information, but that's not very often.

 

In a way, the same thing applies here. This isn't a perfect analogy. They devs may or may not get back to us. They know what needs to be fixed. Or at least have a good idea. Just have faith in them. They will let us know when they have something to report. Don't feel just because you deserve an answer they will give it to you. Life's not fair and in the words of the immortal Sten: "You'll get use to disappointment." Give Bioware a break. They are working hard enough without needing the abuse from people. Be appreciative of what you've been given. A great (not perfect, but great) game by a solid developer.

 

If that isn't good enough for you, then I'm sorry, there's the door to World of Warcraft. ---->

 

car insurance = game development?

 

LOLOLOLOL

 

I can sue my insurer with very good probability of success, if he tries to pull one over me. There are sharks everywhere, with ads on TV asking me to call them if i get injured in a car accident.

 

what an idiot.

Edited December 29, 2011 by PowerElectronic

[mrsleep]

People are such ******es on the forums, I wouldn't respond either.

If people could stop the hyperbole and make reasoned arguments and suggestions, you might get a better response.

[Fraxture]

People assume when they post that their statement is going to the top of the line, and is glowing red.

 

I work on issues in a hospital daily.

And all issues from the end user are STAT, in their opinion.

And all assume after they hit send that you read their request and that end user is calling shortly thereafter wondering why it is taking so long to respond and get a resolution.

 

We handle them in order of severity.

And we are only a small team covering thousands of users.

It's just not cost effective to have an analyst per user.

 

Or to have a team of 1000+ devs to answer the needs of a million+ users.

 

Things take time, and we have to rely on the maturity of our customers to hold them through until we can get to their issue in a timely manner.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Fraxture

[Gwyd-yon]

SWTOR Forums: A Timeline

 

Forum start

 

"Give us a release date already!"

 

Release date given

 

"When are you going to let me Beta test!"

 

Beta Weekend

 

"Let us into the game already!"

 

Early Access Opens

 

"Let me into early access already!"

 

Game Launches

 

"OMG, no content for 50s, so many bugs, BW better fix this!"

 

Patch within one week addressing many major issues

 

"Everything is wrong, I quit!"

[Fraxture]

SWTOR Forums: A Timeline

 

Forum start

 

"Give us a release date already!"

 

Release date given

 

"When are you going to let me Beta test!"

 

Beta Weekend

 

"Let us into the game already!"

 

Early Access Opens

 

"Let me into early access already!"

 

Game Launches

 

"OMG, no content for 50s, so many bugs, BW better fix this!"

 

Patch within one week addressing many major issues

 

"Everything is wrong, I quit!"

 

Um...wow.

That is spot on..

[TheLightningLord]

The devs could do a far better job in showing us that they do not ignore us. There are issues that were reported in beta and still have not taken care of. There are many you have still waiting that their issues they had written a ticket about to get solved. RIFT feel much better in this regard, the patches did cover much more than the patches in SWTOR have done so far.

 

Jesus, the game has been out for a little over a week. The fact that there has already been a patch addressing some issues is a good sign. People will complain about anything.

 

Have to agree, did my EV run last night - another week of no randomly dying, encounters bugging, broken loot boxes, and not completing my quest!

 

Endgame is so fun!

 

Congratulations on speeding through the game. Seriously, the developers won't look at end game stuff for another couple of months because they are focusing on content that the majority of people are experiencing.

Edited December 29, 2011 by TheLightningLord

[Yukondoit]

car insurance = game development?

 

LOLOLOLOL

 

I can sue my insurer with very good probability of success, if he tries to pull one over me. There are sharks everywhere, with ads on TV asking me to call them if i get injured in a car accident.

 

what an idiot.

 

The problem with your rebuttal is the phrase "if he tries to pull one over on me." The Devs are not violating ANY contractual obligations with you.

 

So yea, your smarmy response to what was a reasonable analogy, doesn't quite cut it.

[GraunKrynn]

Kudos OP for an informative and well thought out post. Sadly, (as you can see from the replies so far) you're not going to win over the vocal minority that makes up the majority of the forum posts. I'd challenge the people who complain the most to develop their own MMO and run it the way they see fit.

[djsmileey]

SWTOR Forums: A Timeline

 

Forum start

 

"Give us a release date already!"

 

Release date given

 

"When are you going to let me Beta test!"

 

Beta Weekend

 

"Let us into the game already!"

 

Early Access Opens

 

"Let me into early access already!"

 

Game Launches

 

"OMG, no content for 50s, so many bugs, BW better fix this!"

 

Patch within one week addressing many major issues

 

"Everything is wrong, I quit!"

 

lol...

 

Truth on so many levels, but you could have added to that so much too.

[KerinKor]

by using the dev tracker I can see a total absence of dev posts in nearly every thread discussing MAJOR GAMEBREAKING or SEVERE IMPACT bugs, of wihch there are many

See what I did there?

 

BTW, Reid is a PR guy, there to feed us the corporate line and to try to pacify us, look through all his entries is Dev Tracker and find ANY concrete information about any of the many bugs we're suffering.

 

Even those entries you DID find actually tell us NOTHING about when they'll be fixed, though at least they've acknowledged, them, other bugs such as the chat channel failures have threads umpteen pages long devoid of ANY comment from a 'dev' at all.

Edited December 29, 2011 by KerinKor

[ObiQuixote]

The community puts a lot of pressure on developers to just not say anything about anything until it's going to go live.

 

Every thing they say is over analyzed misconstrued and taken as a promise. For them, speaking in the forums is like a politician speaking in public, they have to be very careful because everything they say will eventually be used against them.

 

For example, you will see posts with someone ******!n about why feature X isn't in the game just to find out that feature X was something that was disused 3 years ago and long since dropped for whatever reason.