Reasons NOT to allow dual specs

[quazzi]

all this wow hate cracks me up. Obviously that game is so horrible with its 10 million subscribers and 7 year + life span... Get over yourselves people, these features and things that games such as wow and rift are adding make the game more enjoyable and it is just one of the many reasons people join and continue to play them.

 

So why the hell would Bioware not want to add these features into there game.

Adding these simple creature comforts into the game keep people more interested and playing longer.

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

You must be a bad PVP player. If everyone has to use a PVE spec for PVP, they're on equal grounds, I'm sorry you feel inadequate in your skills. Seriously! What's wrong with using a PVE spec?

 

And, it was your idea, not mine, I brought it to it's logical conclusion. I'm very confident logic is not behind many posts on the General Discussion threads, and it's a sad state of affairs, everyone is running on emotion and opinion. Myself included.

 

lol okay wait what? you're calling him a bad pvp player....when you are using a PVE spec in PVP.... uhm okay theres a reason he'd obviously be the better PVPer....because his talent tree is set to pvp? not pve... you're an idiot for saying that. think before you speak. what he's saying is that why shouldn't we be able to switch specs depending on how a person feels like playing today. maybe i dont want to spend all day doing quests, let me switch specs to pvp so i dont suck at pvp.... why would you use a PVE (PLAYER VERSUS ENVIRONMENT) (E.V.I.R.O.N.M.E.N.T) in PVP (PLAYER VS PLAYER) that would completely negate the point of the two being separate servers and play styles.... which have been used for 20 years in MMO history.... if you don't like go play a normal RPG like fable or mass effect where things aren't to difficult for you

[Deadxero]

Before TOR Rifts was the biggest and best MMO launch since WoW. Its still has about 2 mill subs! Yes I played Rifts and would still be there if TOR was not Star Wars. Only reason they have me. I have been dreaming of a SW MMO since I played EQ1 13 years ago for the first time. I hope BW plays this smarter then SoE.

 

I want quad spec and I want unlocked ACs. I have a real life and dont have time to make 3-5 chars equipped to raid level. I need 1-2 chars have all the rolls I want to be able to fill all my gaming needs. Rifts is doing well and showed there is a huge market for this. They wana keep my sub then they need to ease up and give me more freedom on how I spec. Respecing as it stands now costs WAY to much.

 

If rift already has this market covered why do we need it here?

 

All games don't need to be the same. Diversity is good.

[DemonicFerret]

Our guild of RL friends had 22 people in it, and we'd run 2 10m raids twice a week. People would switch specs as needed, and we didn't have to PUG anyone.

 

Your guild is not the world. Plenty of people would be very happy with the scenario you describe here. Also, as you mentioned, dual-spec is not the only thing that contributed to this. This game is not WoW, and you can't assume that introducing dual spec would have the same results that it did there. There are too many variables.

 

I mentioned some of these same points a page ago, but you seem to have stopped replying to me in favor of addressing the "emotion and opinion" that so many of the trolls in this thread are spewing.

[Sneakymcstab]

People like you is why there isn't any variety in MMOs anymore, unless it's a WOW clone its junk in your eyes.

 

There is no comparison between EQ1 and WOW. WOW is /facerollacrosskeyboard easy in comparison to EQ1. WOW has destroyed the MMO market by taking out diversity and challenges from the genre.

 

There is no adrenaline during combat like there was in EQ1. Death meant alot in that game which meant each combat meant something. In the games since, combat means little overall and death even less.

 

MMOs now mainly cater to the causal market while UO and EQ1 was targeted at the hardcore crowd. Dual specs is another tool that causals need in order to compete with hardcore members.

 

You know why? Because those damn casuals bring in more money than the so called hardcore crowd. If they didn't, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

[QDMcGraw]

lol okay wait what? you're calling him a bad pvp player....when you are using a PVE spec in PVP.... uhm okay theres a reason he'd obviously be the better PVPer....because his talent tree is set to pvp? not pve... you're an idiot for saying that. think before you speak. what he's saying is that why shouldn't we be able to switch specs depending on how a person feels like playing today. maybe i dont want to spend all day doing quests, let me switch specs to pvp so i dont suck at pvp.... why would you use a PVE (PLAYER VERSUS ENVIRONMENT) (E.V.I.R.O.N.M.E.N.T) in PVP (PLAYER VS PLAYER) that would completely negate the point of the two being separate servers and play styles.... which have been used for 20 years in MMO history.... if you don't like go play a normal RPG like fable or mass effect where things aren't to difficult for you

 

You've failed to grasp anything I've said and I pity you for your incoherent rambling at this point. Seriously, step away from the computer and chill for a few moments before coming back.

[Zarovich]

all this wow hate cracks me up. Obviously that game is so horrible with its 10 million subscribers and 7 year + life span... Get over yourselves people, these features and things that games such as wow and rift are adding make the game more enjoyable and it is just one of the many reasons people join and continue to play them.

 

So why the hell would Bioware not want to add these features into there game.

Adding these simple creature comforts into the game keep people more interested and playing longer.

 

Yes but 7 million of WOW's subscriber base is chinese/korean. If numbers meant something then Runescape must be the greatest game ever and it has a subscriber base too.

[Airinya]

Before TOR Rifts was the biggest and best MMO launch since WoW. Its still has about 2 mill subs! Yes I played Rifts and would still be there if TOR was not Star Wars. Only reason they have me. I have been dreaming of a SW MMO since I played EQ1 13 years ago for the first time. I hope BW plays this smarter then SoE.

 

I want quad spec and I want unlocked ACs. I have a real life and dont have time to make 3-5 chars equipped to raid level. I need 1-2 chars have all the rolls I want to be able to fill all my gaming needs. Rifts is doing well and showed there is a huge market for this. They wana keep my sub then they need to ease up and give me more freedom on how I spec. Respecing as it stands now costs WAY to much.

 

Rift was a horrid game with no sense of individuality at all. Everyone could be every thing (tank, healer, dps) and could have every spec.

[quazzi]

If rift already has this market covered why do we need it here?

 

All games don't need to be the same. Diversity is good.

 

Lol thats like a car making saying hey the competition already has rubber Tires, its already covered so we should just keep using these wooden ones because its different and creates diversity....

[soldenal]

Not to mention your character do have those skills, he/she just fill a role that the group call for. Spec into a setup is just a way the game simulate the group role concept, switching spec is nothing against realism.

 

If anything, the urge to make switching spec hard is against the realism.

 

You haven't sold me with that argument.

Main reason is this dual spec is already in game, it's called respec.

This is allowed by Bioware, the only thing it does it taking 10 min of your time and some money.

Dual spec is just making it more convenient.

 

 

For me this is a game, realism in a SW game is not something I hold high.

I don't like time sinks and neither do I see a real good point why dual spec is a bad idea.

[Xzulld]

Rift was a horrid game with no sense of individuality at all. Everyone could be every thing (tank, healer, dps) and could have every spec.

 

This game actually has the same issue, and was sold that way from a development perspective.

 

Companions and nearly every single adv class having a tanking or healing tree was touted as a way to allow flexibility in game play.

 

So the desire to allow this flexibility exists on the dev team, and its a big win that dual spec will be in the game eventually.

 

Thanks,

[Zarovich]

You know why? Because those damn casuals bring in more money than the so called hardcore crowd. If they didn't, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

 

That was a true statement at one point but I'm not so sure anymore as Nintendo has found out. The Wii was made with the casual market in mind but Nintendo just took a record loss for the year of 2011 because their casual crowd discovered FREE facebook games, phone apps and F2P games. It seems to me that casuals are going away from the subscriber model and to the FREE or F2P model.

[quazzi]

Yes but 7 million of WOW's subscriber base is chinese/korean. If numbers meant something then Runescape must be the greatest game ever and it has a subscriber base too.

 

rofl so the Chinese and Koreans are lesser people for some reason? I don't understand why them playing is any different then a western culture playing the game. Its still 10million active subscriptions. They are doing something right. To not look to them for at least some guidance or inspiration would just be ignorant. The addition of dual spec and dungeon finder are 2 massive things that keep wow alive and kicking.

[Airinya]

This game actually has the same issue, and was sold that way from a development perspective.

 

Companions and nearly every single adv class having a tanking or healing tree was touted as a way to allow flexibility in game play.

 

So the desire to allow this flexibility exists on the dev team, and its a big win that dual spec will be in the game eventually.

 

Thanks,

 

Apparently you missed the post in the other thread where an individual posted the interview stating it was something they were "looking into." However, you like to pick and choose what you point out so that is hardly surprising.

 

Go to a higher level flashpoint with your companion and let is be the sole tank or healer and let me know how that goes for you.

[QDMcGraw]

That was a true statement at one point but I'm not so sure anymore as Nintendo has found out. The Wii was made with the casual market in mind but Nintendo just took a record loss for the year of 2011 because their casual crowd discovered FREE facebook games, phone apps and F2P games. It seems to me that casuals are going away from the subscriber model and to the FREE or F2P model.

 

I'm curious if Nintendo made their money back on the development cost of the Wii. For quite a while it was the 'it' thing to have. Now, it's a good bookend and dust collector in most homes.

[kyrinthic]

You know why? Because those damn casuals bring in more money than the so called hardcore crowd. If they didn't, we wouldn't be having these conversations.

 

sad but true.

the large mob of halfass casual players have shown they are the largest group playing MMOs today.

 

Wow shows that any successful business model will cater to this crowd.

 

This isnt exactly news tho, its been a slow direction for a long time in games, and hobbies in general.

 

The smaller a thing is, the more dedicated the average hobbiest is. Games are no different.

 

Go back 10 years and look at games across the board. They were harder. They punished failure, and you felt damn good when you managed to beat them. If you sucked you never beat them.

 

Games today are designed so the average 8 year old can button mash their way through. If something is too hard for that demographic, it gets nerfed eventually. Sometimes a game will have a slightly harder 'hard mode', tho more and more these are settings that can be scaled while playing, just in case its too hard.

 

Wow is just the big visible neon sign pointing all of this out.

 

I dont want to see TOR go that route, but I would be surprised if it doesnt. I just hope to have as much fun out of it before the screaming masses ruin it.

[Reecelol]

all the people that dont want addons, and lfg, and lfd, and macros and auto attacks and dual spec etc are hilarious. it almost sounds like the lack of these things will make the game more "challenging".

 

 

its like the kids who play MW/black ops "hardcore" and "crouch only" to make the game more "realistic".

 

you kids are adorable.

[DemonicFerret]

Apparently you missed the post in the other thread where an individual posted the interview stating it was something they were "looking into." However, you like to pick and choose what you point out so that is hardly surprising.

 

Go to a higher level flashpoint with your companion and let is be the sole tank or healer and let me know how that goes for you.

 

Even if you don't want dual spec, can we at least agree that the current respec costs get way too damn high?

[TheHauntingBard]

You know if you want a tedious grindfest that you can consider as hardcore go play EQ 1, it's still around.

Have fun, I will take one dual spec please.

[Sneakymcstab]

That was a true statement at one point but I'm not so sure anymore as Nintendo has found out. The Wii was made with the casual market in mind but Nintendo just took a record loss for the year of 2011 because their casual crowd discovered FREE facebook games, phone apps and F2P games. It seems to me that casuals are going away from the subscriber model and to the FREE or F2P model.

 

Yeah, true. But I think that has something to do with 'casual' games mostly being 'horrible abominations'. Something like Angry Birds is simple, but it's an actual game, most console games aimed at the 'casuals' were just really bad. They mistook 'casual' for 'will buy anything simple'.

[Zarovich]

This game actually has the same issue, and was sold that way from a development perspective.

 

Companions and nearly every single adv class having a tanking or healing tree was touted as a way to allow flexibility in game play.

 

So the desire to allow this flexibility exists on the dev team, and its a big win that dual spec will be in the game eventually.

 

Thanks,

 

With companions of all types being available to every class, dual specs isn't needed. And high end raiding is not a reason since no knows what it entails.

[ferroz]

There is no comparison between EQ1 and WOW. WOW is /facerollacrosskeyboard easy in comparison to EQ1.

Really? I know rogues and rangers who turned on auto attack and basically afk'd in raids during part's of EQ's life... wow has always been more active.

 

the only challenging part was pulling really.

 

EQ was simple enough for someone to fairly effectively 30 box.... can the same be said for wow?

Edited December 29, 2011 by ferroz

[AlkalineKitten]

I don't think it's lazy to desire dual spec, sure you cut out the levelling of a second character but there's still a second role to learn and usually a second set of gear to obtain. Levelling isn't hard, so how does the game become easier?

 

Dual Spec within the AC doesn't require a second set of gear, which is a plus.

[Zarovich]

Even if you don't want dual spec, can we at least agree that the current respec costs get way too damn high?

 

No I can't agree because the cost resets every week. So how is a free respec every week too damn high?

[HaleTheFreeVoice]

besides, i still have yet to see the exact problem with duel spec...

 

if you don't like it don't use it? its not like they are forcing you to use it. if you don't get that its for players who want to pvp one day and pve the next day then thats pretty sad. idk why wow was brought into this just because it uses dual spec because it did not create dual spec lol

 

the fact of the matter is, is that people use dual spec as a commodity not to make the game easier or to make guilds smaller or w.e. youre saying, i failed to see the evidence and logic that people who dual spec ran off and created their own guilds, or why it had to do with them switching between their alts and mains. that has nothing to do with dual spec'ing your toon.

 

personally i like being in a tight group within a guild i dont like when the 200000 people in my guild ARENT one everyday. i go threw my list and its like 15 out of 198 online....*** is point of that. and the definition of a guild is a small to medium size group of people working together for blah blah blah. IMHO i don't want to babysit 20975209357029375 kids in a guild id like a steady 20-30 people max in my guild, idgaf how great the guild is. i just want to have fun with those people i grow close to within the game. not have a "whos go a bigger guild" debate. its supposed to be a fun game where we all have fun and compete with each other, not listen to people like you who want to take every aspect of the game and every other game like it and rip it to pieces for their own single purposed gains that never benefit anyone else cuz you can't figure out why everyone left your guild

 

 

they left your guild to start their own cuz they got tired of seeing that you were proably a lvl 20 guild with all herioc crap that hey couldnt use anyway, probably saw what a dick you are, probably said hey i dont want to be in a guild where i dont fit into all this crap about dual spec/ we. else you went on about.

 

they wanted a better guild or to see the excitement of having and running their own.

 

dual spec does not force people to leave a guild.... its not a living breathing alien with wings!

 

just play the damn game and cry more. you arent being forced to use it so stop talking already. you're not right nor wrong. you just don't have any pure hard evidence. nor does anyone care. because you obviously weren't using dual spec properly or you'd understand it was to be used for pve and pvp switchers.

 

 

 

sigh holy ****