Please remove the Monumental Crystal Requirement on the Masterwork Mainhand+Offhand

[RTCBrad]

So this is easy to fix go back to how the game used to be -

 

1. Give pvpers PvP gear so they don't have to do pve content to play PvP.

2. 236 story ops, 242 HM/SM gftm ops, 248 NiM/HM gftm ops, 258 gftm NiM only.

3. Ditch this stupid galactic command nonsense.

 

All fixed.

 

In th old days not every player ran around in full nightmare mode gear, in fact very few did, there is nothing wrong with that. The only content that requires NiM gear is NiM ops therefore if you aren't doing NiM ops or cannot do NiM ops then you do not need NiM ops gear.

[Sabachthanus]

I cannot clear NiM Brontes for the Wings of the Architect. This has a detrimental effect on my role-playing experience. Please allow me to gain them though solo content /s.

[DWho]

So this is easy to fix go back to how the game used to be -

 

1. Give pvpers PvP gear so they don't have to do pve content to play PvP.

2. 236 story ops, 242 HM/SM gftm ops, 248 NiM/HM gftm ops, 258 gftm NiM only.

3. Ditch this stupid galactic command nonsense.

 

All fixed.

 

In th old days not every player ran around in full nightmare mode gear, in fact very few did, there is nothing wrong with that. The only content that requires NiM gear is NiM ops therefore if you aren't doing NiM ops or cannot do NiM ops then you do not need NiM ops gear.

 

I think you would have to add:

 

4) get rid of Free to Play/Preferred because without Galactic Command the vast majority of players playing the game would not pay for a sub for more than one month since they would get nothing out of it. PVPers and Raiders are already using the "it only takes one sub" workaround to play their content without subbing. Overall, a really good way to put an end to the game.

[casirabit]

^ This.

 

We need to stop losing player, start attracting them and then, maybe with a bit of luck, the lights will stay on longer.

 

I'll remind players defending the current system, and the Dev / Lead Producer that delivered that system that there was another game that railroaded people into end-game group content almost at the exclusion of all other content, it was called Wildstar.

 

 

All The Best

 

This I agree with. People keep leaving the game is not going to last much longer.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

That's true, there are some people you will never be able to guide into trying to new things no matter how hard you try, but the fact that they don't respond to the carrot doesn't mean it isn't being offered.

 

This isn't guiding people to try new things, it's telling people that only one small portion of the endgame is worth doing according to the dev's.

 

Let's look at pvp alone: there are 3 basic formats: Warzones, Arena's, and GSF

 

According to the dev's the only pvp players worthy of the new 258 weapons are the one's who like arena's.

 

Letting people gear faster and easier by some types of content over others is a carrot. Not letting them gear at all if they don't like the 'right' content is a stick.

[mrphstar]

Satisfaction at having really good gear is one of the prime factors that drive people to stay engaged with games like this.

 

All The Best

 

Its not the satisfaction of HAVING them, its the satisfaction of EARNING them. Many people wont get any satisfaction from face rolling the easiest content to get the best rewards within 1 week. Thats what drove most of the progression/hardcore raiders away from the game. You can argue all day long about excluding certain groups of players. There HAS TO BE a system where rewards are related to skill (and effort). Not to compensate for some body parts in real life, but for personal satisfaction and emotional rewards. A solo story player who plays only for the cinematic experience wont ever understand this.

 

And as someone else pointed out earlier: These specific rewards give you the ability to clear things even faster and without worrying about the group composition or item level of one or two other players. It gives you the ability to help friends who were not able to gear properly or clear the content yet. Again, as solo player this will be hard to understand.

 

BW made the huge mistake to start swtor as an MMO, trying to convert it to a single player content focused game after a few years and coming back to tradtional MMO aspects now again. Not only that they lost players of the "opposite" fraction in the process. Even worse, they now got a mixed community of all types of players where all others but the one group new content was created for will cry for changes constantly.

So again: If you dont feel like your money is worth the current state of the game, unsub and come back later. Or dont, your choice. But dont try to change things based on the false assumption you would speak for the majority of the players. Thats the wrong attitude and doesnt help att all to improve the game.

[Noerra]

Its not the satisfaction of HAVING them, its the satisfaction of EARNING them. Many people wont get any satisfaction from face rolling the easiest content to get the best rewards within 1 week. Thats what drove most of the progression/hardcore raiders away from the game. You can argue all day long about excluding certain groups of players. There HAS TO BE a system where rewards are related to skill (and effort). Not to compensate for some body parts in real life, but for personal satisfaction and emotional rewards. A solo story player who plays only for the cinematic experience wont ever understand this.

 

And as someone else pointed out earlier: These specific rewards give you the ability to clear things even faster and without worrying about the group composition or item level of one or two other players. It gives you the ability to help friends who were not able to gear properly or clear the content yet. Again, as solo player this will be hard to understand.

 

BW made the huge mistake to start swtor as an MMO, trying to convert it to a single player content focused game after a few years and coming back to tradtional MMO aspects now again. Not only that they lost players of the "opposite" fraction in the process. Even worse, they now got a mixed community of all types of players where all others but the one group new content was created for will cry for changes constantly.

So again: If you dont feel like your money is worth the current state of the game, unsub and come back later. Or dont, your choice. But dont try to change things based on the false assumption you would speak for the majority of the players. Thats the wrong attitude and doesnt help att all to improve the game.

 

Sounds bit failed reasoning to me talking about system that rewards skill and effort and then continuing to explain these items are usefull to pull your friends trough the content they were not able to clear without the help of your mighty new weapon. These friends have then showed skill and effort and earned their rewards? Just shows that not everyone in OPS earns them on their own effort and skill at all. There is always some with high skill and dedication but always also some that get pulled trough.

 

Telling people to unscribe while game is in this state is absolute madness. Those story players are feeding money to game to keep your OPS being built. Least you could do, if you can't respect other playstyles, is to just keep quiet so you keep getting your content in future too.

 

And when it comes to majority or minority, everyone can do their own guesses how it goes. But i can guarentee you, that if solo and story players all take your advice and unsubscribe, this game will not exist anymore for very long.

[olagatonjedi]

This seems like a conversation that should be taking place after about 3-6 months, so people have an opportunity to engage and earn it in the intended new content. Many historians of the game know they will inevitably introduce an alternate method to acquire them. Edited February 15, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Sarova]

This seems like a conversation that should be taking place after about 3-6 months, so people have an opportunity to engage and earn it in the intended new content. Many historians of the game know they will inevitably introduce an alternate method to acquire them.

The new "content" is not intended for people like me who play solo and prefer story content so no amount of time is going to make a difference. I don't think the mission to complete the new OP should be visible for players like me. Unfortunately it's obtainable as a weekly but it is only intended for end-game well geared players. I'm just ignoring it; their attempt to force me into the only type of content they are intending on releasing for most likely all of 2019 isn't going to work for me (I don't think we will see 6.0 until 2020 if ever or any story content leading up to it until very late 2019). Ops and ranked are just not an enjoyable style of play for me and I have no intention of taking part in either. Add good story content or something for solo PvE / unranked PvP players and I'll take part.

The swtor dev team can be defined by one image https://imgur.com/gallery/83UDR

You win feedback!

[MorseGod]

This seems like a conversation that should be taking place after about 3-6 months, so people have an opportunity to engage and earn it in the intended new content. Many historians of the game know they will inevitably introduce an alternate method to acquire them.

 

And how many paying accounts does EA / Bioware lose in that 3-6 months for sending the signal that a rather large segment of customers aren't valued?

 

Can SWTOR afford to lose revenue?

[Sebastianne]

It seems like the main point of all of this is that there's a significant player base that is casual and subs specifically for regs. Ever since the RNG and now Ossus changes they're being forced into doing things they don't pay to do. That was most of my guild. Many of them don't mind doing regs or occasional ranked to gear for pvp; however, this massive grind to just queue regs is not something most of them are willing to pay for. Most of my guild is currently unsubbed, uses a friend as their queue daddy and just gets the 252 gear without subbing when they feel like it. All it's doing is bringing the reg pvp quality considerably down more than it was before. The thing is the 252 bolster isn't terrible but facing us over the bolster can be quite frustrating, especially with premades. They could, bolster us down for regs at 252 and I'm sure a lot of people would dial back on their complaints.

 

Another part of it is, as the worlds okayest heal operative, I really don't belong in ranked. I have health problems that leave me with no sensation in my hands and fingertips, along with significant pain in my hands, and brain fog, it's not the place for me. I have good days and bad days and struggle to use key binds or my mouse. Ranked players are far too toxic for most of us to even put in the effort for that. In the future I see people wallet warrioring from gold farmers just to have their main hand and offhand crafted, that in itself is the major problem. Most seem willing to put in extra work doing lower content than have to do the current end game stuff as it stands, it's buggy and it's just not what most of the people I play with pay to do. If that's the case I'm sure overtime, in the coming months, it will get easier obtain or the prices of the mats, hopefully, go down.

[Rion_Starkiller]

The new "content" is not intended for people like me who play solo and prefer story content so no amount of time is going to make a difference. I don't think the mission to complete the new OP should be visible for players like me. Unfortunately it's obtainable as a weekly but it is only intended for end-game well geared players. I'm just ignoring it; their attempt to force me into the only type of content they are intending on releasing for most likely all of 2019 isn't going to work for me (I don't think we will see 6.0 until 2020 if ever or any story content leading up to it until very late 2019). Ops and ranked are just not an enjoyable style of play for me and I have no intention of taking part in either. Add good story content or something for solo PvE / unranked PvP players and I'll take part.

 

You win feedback!

 

I said this earlier in the thread that the GEARING PATTERN of MMO's is to gate the highest gear behind the hardest content. Then as time progresses, the devs add another path to acquire the same gear. THEREFORE, BW will probably add another means of acquiring the 258 MH/OH's in 1-2 months.

 

This is the classic gear treadmill.

 

Finally, why are solo players even complaining? "Difficult" solo content does not exist. And you can literally acquire all 258's right now, except the MH/OH (you are 1 tier lower, a measly 252 -- oh the horror!). You are not missing out on anything. I guarantee you that the average Joe of group content is not clearing 8m HM Hive Queen, nor are they doing the ranked weekly.

 

If you want to complain that the new gear grind is pointless because barely any new content was introduced with it, then I agree. But I will take Grind over RNG any day. I like the new system, but with 2 caveats: 1. slot-bound mods are trash, 2. RNG Gear drops from the weekly Ossus mission board are incredibly awful. Say NO to loot crates.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Toraak]

For the most part I like the new gear system, yes it can be a grind, however as an MMO that is important.

 

With that being said since they changed gearing with 5.0 to only have 1 set for both PvE, and PvP, and added GC, they shouldn't force any player to do forced Solo ranked or a specific VM Operation.

 

My suggestion to let players that either don't have a group for VM queen, or have any desire to do Solo ranked would be allow people to buy Monumental crystals for Masterwork crystals. For Example: Spend 5 Masterwork crystals, and get 1 Monumental Crystal. This would allow Solo players to get the MH/OH still, but it would take a long time due to the fact it would take 15 Masterwork crystals in total for a MH, or an OH. 10 Masterwork crystals to get the 2 Monumental Crystals, + the 5 required for the MH, or OH.

[Jdast]

I said this earlier in the thread that the GEARING PATTERN of MMO's is to gate the highest gear behind the hardest content. Then as time progresses, the devs add another path to acquire the same gear. THEREFORE, BW will probably add another means of acquiring the 258 MH/OH's in 1-2 months.

 

This is the classic gear treadmill.

 

This model works very well when there is a steady stream of new content released or there is still something to work toward. The two issues are inextricably linked. In the case of WoW and BfA, you have a steady stream of new zones, upgraded WQ rewards so you can advance your character, even if not BiS. You also have the Azerite system (though its implementation is questionable).

 

What you call the classic gear treadmill works very, very well in games like WoW. Here, not so much. It's not so much a question of BiS for me, but not progressing at all. In other words, the treadmill doesn't get me to where I'm going, regardless of how many calories I burn on it.

 

At the end of the day, when I stop advancing my character, I stop playing, which means I also stop paying.

 

Dasty

[olagatonjedi]

The new "content" is not intended for people like me who play solo and prefer story content so no amount of time is going to make a difference. I don't think the mission to complete the new OP should be visible for players like me. Unfortunately it's obtainable as a weekly but it is only intended for end-game well geared players. I'm just ignoring it; their attempt to force me into the only type of content they are intending on releasing for most likely all of 2019 isn't going to work for me (I don't think we will see 6.0 until 2020 if ever or any story content leading up to it until very late 2019). Ops and ranked are just not an enjoyable style of play for me and I have no intention of taking part in either. Add good story content or something for solo PvE / unranked PvP players and I'll take part.

 

You win feedback!

And nothing has indicated that the new content or gear is intended for everyone with different interests. But the game can change as time goes on. When BW feels it needs to be expanded to other playstyles, they will be the ones to decide whether to do it or not, and based off of their recent history, they will not give in to the pressure of a few forum posts that will affect the integrity of the game. The funny thing about 99% of all complaints on these forums about any change is that nobody seems to have the foresight or understanding that things CAN and likely will be changed as time goes on. So today you didnt get what you want, but tomorrow someone else wont get what they want, while you will be the beneficiary.

[Rion_Starkiller]

This model works very well when there is a steady stream of new content released or there is still something to work toward. The two issues are inextricably linked. In the case of WoW and BfA, you have a steady stream of new zones, upgraded WQ rewards so you can advance your character, even if not BiS. You also have the Azerite system (though its implementation is questionable).

 

What you call the classic gear treadmill works very, very well in games like WoW. Here, not so much. It's not so much a question of BiS for me, but not progressing at all. In other words, the treadmill doesn't get me to where I'm going, regardless of how many calories I burn on it.

 

At the end of the day, when I stop advancing my character, I stop playing, which means I also stop paying.

 

Dasty

 

Yep, exactly. I basically said similar in the last paragraph of my post. There isn't enough new content to warrant this current gear treadmill, except for raiders. The dev's excuse for this is "Oh. Well the new gear is mostly for raiders -- no one else needs it."

Edited February 15, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[olagatonjedi]

And how many paying accounts does EA / Bioware lose in that 3-6 months for sending the signal that a rather large segment of customers aren't valued?

 

Can SWTOR afford to lose revenue?

The content is AVAILABLE to every subscriber, because each of us can CHOOSE for ourselves to attempt the content or not. BW is showing that they value the availability of content, not devaluing a specific type of players interests.

 

Even a NIM raider can wake up one day and have a significant RL change that impacts their ability/dedication to be an elite player; just as a casual player may finally hit retirement and allocate a lot more time and effort to becoming an elite player - the point being that the interests, the investments, the playstyles, the playtimes ALL vary from day to day, moment to moment, so its naive to believe that content is specifically designed for a specific part of the population, because populations change. The whole systen is dynamic, from the game to the playerbase. The complaint you are making suggests this game operates in a vacuum, which is completely inaccurate.

 

Personally, i am one who has experienced the gradual and sudden changes that MMO players go through. I first got into EQ in college, amd would play damn near 80 hrs a week, end game raiding, pvping, etc. Finished college years later, entered the real world and had to cut back playtime significantly, so i saw the limitations a casual player had to endure. I have had schedules that allowed for play during prime time, and schedules that only allowed me to play during off hours. And guess what? Im still here, because every time an uodate or patch didnt go my way (at that time), i had patience enough to let the game naturally evolve, and ive always been at the end-goal i originally set out for myself before the next update. But my peogression and variation of play made me understand that there are probably thousands of players who also have seen that type of impactful change to their playstyle. And back when i left my end-game raiding crew after college, someone else filled my spot in the crew, possibly a soloer, who i ended up replacing due to my time limitations

 

The game is cyclical, dynamic, and by nature does not cater to any specific playstyle or interest overly abundantly. Instead, good programming and development covers as wide a base as possible to draw people of all interests in. Think of some of the most popular movies out there - they arent focused on one specific thing over and over, but instead generally appeal to multiple interest groups because they include comedy, some romance, some action, some racial diversity, a popular cast, a good story, etc.

[MorseGod]

Dude, you said a lot of words to miss my entire point.

 

I say that people will stop paying / playing if it's obvious they're being herded into content they don't like. Your rebuttal is that they can choose to join the herd at any time, so there's no problem.

 

There's a problem if the herding leads to net subscription losses, which I think it will. You can say whatever you want about how the displeased customers should just come around and do it the way the devs intend, but the devs don't pay us to do what they want; we pay them to do what we want.

 

That's the bottom line. Dissatisfied players leave. They don't change their playstyle. They just stop paying. They also tell all their friends about their negative experience, quite possibly causing other losses.

[olagatonjedi]

Dude, you said a lot of words to miss my entire point.

 

I say that people will stop paying / playing if it's obvious they're being herded into content they don't like. Your rebuttal is that they can choose to join the herd at any time, so there's no problem.

 

There's a problem if the herding leads to net subscription losses, which I think it will. You can say whatever you want about how the displeased customers should just come around and do it the way the devs intend, but the devs don't pay us to do what they want; we pay them to do what we want.

 

That's the bottom line. Dissatisfied players leave. They don't change their playstyle. They just stop paying. They also tell all their friends about their negative experience, quite possibly causing other losses.

Nothing that players were previously interested in was removed from the game, so if they were happy with what the game offered before the update, they likely are happy with what is STILL available.

 

If players are dissatisfied after the content was released (and BW openly told them what to expect), then they were likely dissatisfied prior to the content release, so they were likely a small feason away from leaving anyways, so its a moot point. For every small reason people leave, there is a reason another player joins or gets more engaged. And they tell their friends about their experiences (see how that works).

 

And as for the bottom line, it would behoove you to understand how much impact your subscription will actually have on their bottom line. A month to month subscriber (one of those people who were on the fence because they were already dissatisfied) leaving really doesnt impact the bottom line very much, especially when compared to the base revenue from long-term subscriptions.

 

Yes, a whole lot of words, but im not sure you're understanding the importance of them.

Edited February 15, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[DarthSpuds]

Its not the satisfaction of HAVING them, its the satisfaction of EARNING them.

 

Nope.

 

You don't get to tell me, or anyone else, what fuels our satisfaction.

 

All The Best

[DarthSpuds]

Dude, you said a lot of words to miss my entire point.

 

I say that people will stop paying / playing if it's obvious they're being herded into content they don't like. Your rebuttal is that they can choose to join the herd at any time, so there's no problem.

 

There's a problem if the herding leads to net subscription losses, which I think it will. You can say whatever you want about how the displeased customers should just come around and do it the way the devs intend, but the devs don't pay us to do what they want; we pay them to do what we want.

 

That's the bottom line. Dissatisfied players leave. They don't change their playstyle. They just stop paying. They also tell all their friends about their negative experience, quite possibly causing other losses.

 

^ This.

 

It does not matter how many defenders defend it, or how they do it.

 

The bottom line is that any Game Development choice that leads to a net loss of players is, by definition, a WRONG choice.

 

We've gone from HUNDREDS of servers, to just SIX.

 

How much more evidence do we need of the multitude of wrong decisions made by SWTOR Lead Producers?

 

 

All The Best

[Falensawino]

What do you need an overpowered MH/OH for exactly, if you arnt a "hardcore" gamer and therefor dont paticipate in "hardcore" content?

 

You cant just demand highest rewards just because you are "a paying customer".

Why do you even post? Gearing rewards is one of the prime gimmicks that get people to waste time in games like these. You remove that gimmick, he has no reason to continue playing. Edited February 15, 2019 by Falensawino

[olagatonjedi]

^ This.

 

It does not matter how many defenders defend it, or how they do it.

 

The bottom line is that any Game Development choice that leads to a net loss of players is, by definition, a WRONG choice.

This is utterly false. Integrity of a game, despite minor losses along the way, can still result in success in the long-term, which swtor has obviously done.

 

The servers consolidated from hundreds to 5, but none of us can pinpoint when in the past 7+ years that consolidation should have taken place. Based on reported subscription losses after the initial release (the largest official drop off, btw), we can draw conclusions that the original game (and not the 5.x and beyond era) was the cause of the server consolidation. And we can also draw conclusions that since the game is still currently active and releasing content, that the changes that the new dev team has been implementing are leading to the aforementioned longevity that is needed.

Edited February 15, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[Rion_Starkiller]

Nope.

 

You don't get to tell me, or anyone else, what fuels our satisfaction.

 

All The Best

 

He gets to tell you whatever he wants within forum rules. Are you saying you have never experienced the satisfaction of earning something? Or that you don't like that feeling of satisfaction? I'm confused.

 

I'm sorry you don't like the work involved in obtaining 258 MH/OH. But I'm afraid you're just going to have to do without, put in the work needed, or wait until another means of 258 acquisition opens up.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[IoNonSoEVero]

Nope.

 

You don't get to tell me, or anyone else, what fuels our satisfaction.

 

All The Best

 

Perhaps one of the points here with raiders is that they don't understand, or believe, that "satisfaction" and "working for things" come in many forms in the game. A solo player who runs dailies and heroics every week for months to gear up their character in 242s or 248s,or get many toons to level 300 to get that achievement, is still working. A solo player who runs a lot of flashpoints on their own is still working. A solo player who just wants to figure out how to get past round 3 of the Eternal Championships is working. It might not be the sort of "work" or satisfaction you value if you're a hardcore raider, but ti doesn't mean that it's not significant for that player. What is easy for one player isn't easy for another.

 

They're logging into the game and expending time and effort, and unlike group activities there's nobody to carry them if they stutter. Unlike PvP they don't get any points or rewards if they lose and cannot defeat the boss or finish the flashpoint. They're not being handed 242s and 248s, and by the same token, nobody's asking for the devs to simply mail every solo player a 258 MH. Just for the ability to work for it in a feasible way, the same way we can work for that GEMINI gear solo, doing the activities we enjoy.