OldVengeance Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) So would I be correct in assuming that there is no point in staying neutral in alignment? Bioware made it almost impossible with the new Light vs Dark button which makes everything you do increase your LS or DS score. In the past I'd always managed to keep my Smuggler neutral. And even up to Kotfe, I kept switching back and forth to stay within the neutral zone. I know that having an alignment gives you bonuses for things like Galactic Command and what not, but that doesn't really matter much to me because I've already got 2 characters maxed out Command XP. My bigger concern is whether is is any content left. In the class stories, and even in SoR, there was unique dialogue for Neutral Characters. Has Bioware stopped including that? My Smuggler specifically even heard some specific lines about being Neutral near the end of her class story. But as I finally take this character through Kotet, I noticed that some of the dialogue is LS or DS dependent and there is apparently no middle ground. Take, for example the speech to inspire the Mandalorians at the beginning of Wrath and Ruin. Is that depending on whether the character is above or below 0 on the Alignment chart? Or does Neutral just get lumped in with LS? Edited January 29, 2019 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compuneek Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Neutrality/grey is something that was given up on before open beta eight years ago. We complained then, but it was just a matter of spiralling complexity. If you want to RP, RP, but consider the relationship between EA and Bioware and the financial situation and recognise that this was never going to go our way. Sorry mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 If I'm remembering rightly from years back, Neutral was considered its own reward because it was difficult to maintain. Closest thing to a reward that I know of is if you're a sith inquisitor, you can get the Darth Occulus title but that's it. I doubt they ever considered putting much effort in things for being Neutral since with this being Star Wars most are going to go LS/DS anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 So would I be correct in assuming that there is no point in staying neutral in alignment? There is no point to any alignment. Do what you want. You'll wind up at the same plot point as everyone else in your story arc, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falensawino Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 you can quickly switch between Dark I or Light I as needed similarly, what's the point of Light V or Dark V? buy ugly crap that you cant put on the GTN or vendor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I know that having an alignment gives you bonuses for things like Galactic Command and what not, but that doesn't really matter much to me because I've already got 2 characters maxed out Command XP. *Having* an alignment doesn't matter for GC. What matters for GC is the state of your alignment toggle, that is, which alignment you are *working towards*, so provided you manage the flow correctly, you can stay neutral. And if you have only two characters at CR 300, you still have some work to do: * Each different base class-pair(1) that you get to CR 300 nets an additional +25% CXP gain on your sub-300 characters. * There are achievements for each base class(2) and another for getting all eight base classes to 300. (1) Trooper/Bounty Hunter is a base class-pair. The others are Consular/Inquisitor, Warrior/Knight, and Agent/Smuggler. (2) That is, there are eight such things, one for each of Trooper, Hunter, Consular, Inquisitor, Warrior, Knight, Agent, and Smuggler. And the other concrete thing that you can (still) get for being neutral is the Darth Occlus (?sp?) thing at the end of the SI story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 LS/DS was the only way you could wear relics back in the day so the game steered you to pick one. It still does even though there's no real detriment for not picking a side anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) It can be somewhat important for the 1-50 class story. It crops up a little bit in the choices available during the rishi class missions. I don't see any other example past that. As people mentioned, Darth Occlus. Neutral JCs have a slightly different ending scene than LS JCs [Neutral JKs have an identical ending scene, which disappointed me]. Smugglers can be neutral, but the rewards are lackluster. For the class story finale, your choices are: LS: SAVE the Republic! DS: PIRRRRATE Fleet! Neutral: 'Give me 50 credits and you're free to go'. The trooper neutral ending is also identical to LS. Neutral SWs and SIs also have different dialogue during their Act 1 finales. BHs have possibly the stupidest neutral ending, and Tormen will criticize you for it. I like replaying class stories, but I did that once on my first BH and I'll never do it again. I have one of each class that plays True Neutral. That is, they don't go beyond 100 light or dark, but try to stay as close to 0 as possible. As you might imagine, it was much easier without the alignment bar. It takes a fair bit of micromanagement, and your character tends to be pretty schizophrenic, but it can be fun. Edited January 29, 2019 by Ardrossan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Yeah I mean I know it could affect the dialogue in Class stories and such, but does it still affect anything in Kotet onward? I actually conducted a small experiment today. Whether you have the option to tell the Mandalorians "We Fight for Peace" or "Destroy our enemies" depends on whether your alignment is above or below exactly 0. It's a Light or Dark binary. My Smuggler was still neutral so it didn't take long to go from above zero to below zero, but it seems that neither the Light vs Dark Icon toggle or being between Light I and Dark I has any bearing on the dialogue here. Edited January 30, 2019 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majspuffen Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Yeah I mean I know it could affect the dialogue in Class stories and such, but does it still affect anything in Kotet onward? I'm struggling to keep my Operative in the neutral zone as well, despite the penalties. I never really intended to stay neutral with her, but that's how she ended her story back in 2012. I remember being very close to dark 1 in chapter 2 and then very close to light side in chapter 1. Thus, I can't really decide which alignment she fits the most -- because she doesn't fit either of them. Going into either of them feels like a betrayal of her character. The alignment juggling itself is really annoying, I really wish there was a way to disable the thing. I also noticed that neutral characters no longer gets any unique dialogue. Kind of goes to show how black and white the Zakuul story is. I argued for this in another thread, but it's really hard to make morally gray choices in KOTFE/KOTET. At the end you're forced to be the ultimate good or the ultimate evil. When I made that choice, I left the computer. I didn't want to see it nor hear it. Edited January 30, 2019 by Majspuffen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Yeah I mean I know it could affect the dialogue in Class stories and such, but does it still affect anything in Kotet onward? I actually conducted a small experiment today. Whether you have the option to tell the Mandalorians "We Fight for Peace" or "Destroy our enemies" depends on whether your alignment is above or below exactly 0. It's a Light or Dark binary. My Smuggler was still neutral so it didn't take long to go from above zero to below zero, but it seems that neither the Light vs Dark Icon toggle or being between Light I and Dark I has any bearing on the dialogue here. As others said, no it doesn't. My point though was that even in the class stories, it doesn't affect much either. Or conversely, the writers will forget to add alignment choices at all. So SIs from the silencer mission onwards have a slew of class finale content that only has neutral options. You wanna free your ghosts? That's neutral. You wanna keep enslaving them? Also neutral. Unless you're LS, you can't actually free them. Or Troopers, who can execute Rakton or take him into custody, both as neutral choices. The game has always been inconsistent about the validity of neutral choices. In Kotfeet, they went one better by removing them altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 OP, there is no point in being neutral because naturally being neutral has no point. As a neutral, you are stuck between counter points, meaning you have no point. Essentially the answer you are looking for is that. There is no point being neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuventusAndFCK Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 BHs have possibly the stupidest neutral ending, and Tormen will criticize you for it. I like replaying class stories, but I did that once on my first BH and I'll never do it again. He does? I must not have paid enough attention or thought it was just general dialogue. Do you remember what he says exactly? I actually kinda like balancing neutral, but I wish I could switch off the d/l side point rewards for quests entirely. I think I'd like to balance neutral characters more if it depended solely on my choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) As others said, no it doesn't. My point though was that even in the class stories, it doesn't affect much either. Or conversely, the writers will forget to add alignment choices at all. So SIs from the silencer mission onwards have a slew of class finale content that only has neutral options. You wanna free your ghosts? That's neutral. You wanna keep enslaving them? Also neutral. Unless you're LS, you can't actually free them. Or Troopers, who can execute Rakton or take him into custody, both as neutral choices. The game has always been inconsistent about the validity of neutral choices. In Kotfeet, they went one better by removing them altogether. I was referring more to the Neutral alignment, rather than any individual Neutral choices. All of my characters, even my most light and dark ones, have picked at least some neutral choices at some point in the game. I thought they helped flesh out the characters a lot. But the fact that the Class stories often accounted for neutral alignment whenever they mentioned your LS/DS points in dialogue was enough for me to want to keep my Smuggler in the neutral zone. Rogun the Butcher, for example told her, "You've walked a hell of a line to help the Republic and claim the throne of the underworld." Other examples include the Darth Occlus title, obviously, and the dialogue in the Noman Karr and Jaesa first encounter. But if Bioware has removed neutral alignment references in Kotet, then it's hard to justifying putting in the effort to stay between Light I and Dark I. Edited January 30, 2019 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) Rogun the Butcher, for example told her, "You've walked a hell of a line to help the Republic and claim the throne of the underworld." oh yeah, I forgot about that one. His line actually changes here not so much based on neutrality but on what specific choices you make. In that sense, it's more like the JC Act 2 finale - doesn't matter how LS you are, if you threatened Director Fenn on Balmorra or hired Valon on Hoth, the Royals will still sic their guards on you. Edited January 30, 2019 by Ardrossan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trauglodyte Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 My biggest issue, which is completely aesthetic, is that I don't have an option to "hold" a Dark level, for looks. Case in point, I dig Dark III as the furthest that I want to go. Dark IV is too veiny and Dark V is too pasty and veiny. Why can't I have an option to choose the Dark alignment that I want to show and then let my choices go on from there? And, to the OP's point, why do I have to play the alignment two-step game just to keep a look? Makes no sense. On the flip side, I am really curious as to how the Operative story goes if you go full Light, full dark, or full grey. Sad that they didn't keep the Beta option/gear rewards of Grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 oh yeah, I forgot about that one. His line actually changes here not so much based on neutrality but on what specific choices you make. In that sense, it's more like the JC Act 2 finale - doesn't matter how LS you are, if you threatened Director Fenn on Balmorra or hired Valon on Hoth, the Royals will still sic their guards on you. Really? What are the options that lead to what he says? For every LS Smuggler I've seen, Rogun says "I'm just glad the good you did was real and not another set up." All the Darkside Smugglers I've seen just kill him before he gets to that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sareeph Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance I know that having an alignment gives you bonuses for things like Galactic Command and what not, but that doesn't really matter much to me because I've already got 2 characters maxed out Command XP. *Having* an alignment doesn't matter for GC. What matters for GC is the state of your alignment toggle, that is, which alignment you are *working towards*, so provided you manage the flow correctly, you can stay neutral. I believe he is saying that you get bonus cxp when your alignment matches the one in Victory State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) Really? What are the options that lead to what he says? For every LS Smuggler I've seen, Rogun says "I'm just glad the good you did was real and not another set up." All the Darkside Smugglers I've seen just kill him before he gets to that line. I'm not 100% certain, but I had two neutral smugglers: one gave the weapons shipment on Balmorra to the Republic, locked up Ivory, handed over the psychic kid from Hoth to the Republic and...I forget about Voss. I think he took the walk-out option for the trial, and he didn't take over the business. He got the LS line. The other one sold the shipment piece by piece, let Ivory steal the ship [was that it? You either lock him up, put him to work, or let him do his original plan for a bribe], allowed the Voss chaperone to screw himself over, didn't take over the business, and I forget what he did on Hoth. He got that neutral option. I think it depends on two specific narratives: either help the republic as much as you can, or form a gangster empire. If you do DS stuff but don't use it to control the underworld, you get that neutral option, because the game reads it as inconsistent play between the two narratives. Taking over the business with the Gormak isn't DS, but it does make more sense if you're playing DS. *You also have a choice not to kill Rogun, but that requires taking the LS option to call a truce with him, iirc. There's also an every man for himself neutral option, but I forget what that does; I think maybe he loses his plot-character immortality and the Sith kill him. Edited January 31, 2019 by Ardrossan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falensawino Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 You can quickly switch to Light I or Dark I as needed to enjoy bonus CXP during either Victory state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Has anyone ever gotten to Tyth in the Iokath story as a neutral? I'm curious as to what he would say because he has such different reactions to DS vs. LS alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Has anyone ever gotten to Tyth in the Iokath story as a neutral? I'm curious as to what he would say because he has such different reactions to DS vs. LS alignment. I would assume it's the same Light/Dark binary as before, depending on whether you are above or below 0 points. I am curious what would happen if you are at exactly 0, but it seems like such an unlikely occurrence that Bioware probably wouldn't have programmed any specific responses to it. Of course, that's even assuming it's still technically possible in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 You can quickly switch to Light I or Dark I as needed to enjoy bonus CXP during either Victory state. I've never been able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majspuffen Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Has anyone ever gotten to Tyth in the Iokath story as a neutral? I'm curious as to what he would say because he has such different reactions to DS vs. LS alignment. He told my neutral agent that she was full of calm and peace. I guess that's the light side version. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 He told my neutral agent that she was full of calm and peace. I guess that's the light side version. :/ Yep, that's what i got on my LS JK. He then called her a mediocre sacrifice or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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