How Has the Empire Changed?

[ApollosNight]

So one of the big plot points for me in KOFET was Empress Acina saying how the Empire has changed. As my main is a LS Inquisitor, I found this very appealing. He was a patriot and wanted a better, less murder-friendly empire that wouldn’t destroy itself (which is why I wish Marr would come back :( ). But how, specifically, have they changed? In Ossus, my toon wants to go back to the Empire, but he now has to consider the fate of the galaxy when he makes that choice. He can’t just go back because he feels nostalgic; he has to believe they’ve changed for the better.

[JattaGin]

They have lowered the amount of ministers in their parliament from 12 to 5. So they save a bit of your tax credits. Apart from that, I don't see any difference to before.

 

Come and join the Republic! We're the good guys (now after Saresh is gone).

Edited January 14, 2019 by JattaGin

[ApollosNight]

They have lowered the amount of ministers in their parliament from 12 to 5. So they save a bit of your tax credits. Apart from that, I don't see any difference to before.

 

Come and join the Republic! We're the good guys (now after Saresh is gone).

Saresh and Malcom seriously turned me off to the Republic. Don't get me wrong, I love Democracy and representation, but I want to believe the Empire isn't that bad.

[SteveTheCynic]

They have lowered the amount of ministers in their parliament from 12 to 5. So they save a bit of your tax credits. Apart from that, I don't see any difference to before.

No. They have lowered the number of Dark Lords in the Dark Council to 5 from 12. There's no way I'd call it a parliament.

 

The most obvious things, as seen from the outside, are:

* A greater willingness to allow aliens to hold positions of power. (Note that an alien in the position of the Inquisitor or the Warrior, in a sense, did not count, because both these characters showed that they have enough power and drive and so on, and that crossing them is severely life-shortening, so that people found reasons to not apply any rules or prejudices to them.)

* An increased resistance, certainly on the ruler's part, to betrayal for betrayal's sake.

[TGaP_Andrey]

Don't get me wrong, I love Democracy and representation, but I want to believe the Empire isn't that bad.

 

Good Lord, what a "patriot", my ***, ffffu*k...

That's so called "Light Side Sith" for ya. Look, everyone, how actually looks this kind of travesty in a practice.

Another proof that any light sider, no matter how he tries to excuse it, is a traitor or/and enemy of the Empire - like already mentioned Darth Marr, who is now kissing in teeth with A F*CKING JEDI MASTER and talking **** about "how he was wrong about everything". And like half of IAs who directly defect to SIS.

 

The only true side is the dark side, which IS about murder, slavery, racism and pillaging - deal with it or leave to your precious Republic, if you are too weak and have no guts for this, and don't make a comedy out of this. You are no more Imperial than Saresh herself. Or Darth Marr the Traitor.

 

I'm not really a fan of all mentioned things in real life, but I can't hold myself when I see this kind of hypocrisy like ITT.

 

>I'm an Imperial patriot, but I'm for democracy. And for peace. And for the Light Side. And also I don't like colors of our banners, we should make them like those of the Republic, daaaah. 3:

 

Why are all of you, like this one, are playing for the Empire in the first place, I want to ask? I don't really see the point in all of this. To feel yourself "a brave and resisting victim of terrible sistem" or what? Some sort of masochism?

Edited January 14, 2019 by TGaP_Andrey

[Iheaca]

Acina is supposed to be strict regarding betrayal but as well globally more moderate, pragmatic and wiser than her former comrades at the Dark Council... But that needs to be proven, especially (spoiler about Ossus below)

 

with the big dirty hint at the end of the Ossus storyline available so far from which I understand that Darth Malgus is somehow constrained to work for her due to whatever she used to bring him back from the dead.

 

 

Nah, it stinks...

 

My Sith still aligned with the Empire (it is still better than the Republic in her opinion) but remain suspicious and considers herself as an outside ally with her own forces (despite the loss of the fleet). She did not believe in the Empire anymore anyway and was on Marr's side. Marr being a traitor is debatable. He wanted the greatness of the Empire more than anything and considered that all this betrayal tradition was clearly part of the issues that prevented the Empire to become greater, which my Sith would agree with. This whole debate would be more a tradition vs progress discussion. But well, as an alien, she could not be a traditionalist by definition.

 

I just hope that it will be possible to go against the Empire in a later stage if necessary, even if I really hope not to be forced to side with the Republic any time soon. Can't we remain as a third force, pleeeeeeeease? Having her own Empire suits my character well.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Iheaca

[IoNonSoEVero]

What has already been said about aliens having less prejudice directed toward them and more opportunities to be in positions of power. One started seeing that toward the end of the pre-KOTFE content (ie, look at the NPCs in Yavin 4 and Ziost), but it seems to be in earnest now.

 

It's also mentioned in the codex that Acina has had zero tolerance for sedition and betrayal and the sort of Sith backbiting that is seen in the class stories, with the Sith at each others' throats. It's also mentioned that since that sort of betrayal is now frowned upon, they've been able to forge a stronger and more unified Empire.

 

Now that we know about the Surprise Guest on Osssus, all that makes more sense. Given that Anri says that the Surprise Guest is rumored to be like the boogeyman, I am guessing Acina or Vowrawn deploy him to shut down any sort of Sith backbiting that pops up.

[Limariko]

Good Lord, what a "patriot", my ***, ffffu*k...

That's so called "Light Side Sith" for ya. Look, everyone, how actually looks this kind of travesty in a practice.

Another proof that any light sider, no matter how he tries to excuse it, is a traitor or/and enemy of the Empire - like already mentioned Darth Marr, who is now kissing in teeth with A F*CKING JEDI MASTER and talking **** about "how he was wrong about everything". And like half of IAs who directly defect to SIS.

 

The only true side is the dark side, which IS about murder, slavery, racism and pillaging - deal with it or leave to your precious Republic, if you are too weak and have no guts for this, and don't make a comedy out of this. You are no more Imperial than Saresh herself. Or Darth Marr the Traitor.

 

I'm not really a fan of all mentioned things in real life, but I can't hold myself when I see this kind of hypocrisy like ITT.

 

>I'm an Imperial patriot, but I'm for democracy. And for peace. And for the Light Side. And also I don't like colors of our banners, we should make them like those of the Republic, daaaah. 3:

 

Why are all of you, like this one, are playing for the Empire in the first place, I want to ask? I don't really see the point in all of this. To feel yourself "a brave and resisting victim of terrible sistem" or what? Some sort of masochism?

 

Why is it any reaction towards the concept of a LS Imperial always acting like they're trying to be over the top goody goodies? It's painfully obvious just going around all murdery backstabby at a whim's been holding the Empire back from all it can achieve. One can still be ruthless and not be comicbook levels of stupid about it.

[Iheaca]

Why is it any reaction towards the concept of a LS Imperial always acting like they're trying to be over the top goody goodies? It's painfully obvious just going around all murdery backstabby at a whim's been holding the Empire back from all it can achieve. One can still be ruthless and not be comicbook levels of stupid about it.

This, but I am not even sure that what you describe would be lightsided, at least in my opinion. Just not being totally dumb perhaps? I tend to consider my main as darksided but not stupid, actually in the contrary very calculating... What would be usually called a pragmatic villain.

[Celise]

The Sith Empire was divided after the eternal empire swept the board, Acina saw an opportunity to step in and take power for herself. Vowrawn was also still around but every other known council member no longer had a stake in the dark council and went into hiding.

 

Acina reformed the dark council into five seats, a number of spheres were reformed into one bigger sphere, roughly two or three spheres per seat, this made ruling the empire easier as there are less Sith lords caught up in political quagmires and with all these spheres formed into one.

 

An example: any decision made about defense and offense of the empires resources iseasier to deal with because there is only one sith lord in control of this aspect and so the sith lord has complete tactical awareness of the entire war machine rather than part of it under the old system where each sith lord can conceal certain facts to themselves for advantages later on. So the empire is now more effective as a war machine.

 

Acina wants loyal Sith by her side, she wants the Empire to acknlowedge its strengths and weaknesses instead of ignoring them but it's clear she has her own agenda no matter how sincere she appears to be, as the Shroud says she is "an oily dianoga", which i'm assuming is a snake like creature.

 

The empire came out the otherside of the EE conflict pretty well considering, she already stole a march on the Republic in military assets, most notably warships like those seen above Voss. Her empire has shown to be more effective than the previous empire. In addition, slaves can now be freed to work in the empire as long as they have the right recommendation and aliens are more tolerated as well, bringing a more unified empire. It is ironic that Malgus tried to do the same thing, but he wanted immediate change and his new empire was the blunt instrument of change, Acina accomplished the same thing from within over a few years.

 

Even with the new changes the empire still has slavery and still has backstabbing and brute aggression as the primary tools in their arsenal as evidenced by the Sith expansion into alliance conflicts, Quinn's betrayal and acina pursuring her own agenda despite the alliance with the alliance and what Anri mentioned about being a slave before getting a recommendation and ending up turning into a Major at the end of the day.

[ApollosNight]

Good Lord, what a "patriot", my ***, ffffu*k...

That's so called "Light Side Sith" for ya. Look, everyone, how actually looks this kind of travesty in a practice.

Another proof that any light sider, no matter how he tries to excuse it, is a traitor or/and enemy of the Empire - like already mentioned Darth Marr, who is now kissing in teeth with A F*CKING JEDI MASTER and talking **** about "how he was wrong about everything". And like half of IAs who directly defect to SIS.

 

The only true side is the dark side, which IS about murder, slavery, racism and pillaging - deal with it or leave to your precious Republic, if you are too weak and have no guts for this, and don't make a comedy out of this. You are no more Imperial than Saresh herself. Or Darth Marr the Traitor.

 

I'm not really a fan of all mentioned things in real life, but I can't hold myself when I see this kind of hypocrisy like ITT.

 

>I'm an Imperial patriot, but I'm for democracy. And for peace. And for the Light Side. And also I don't like colors of our banners, we should make them like those of the Republic, daaaah. 3:

 

Why are all of you, like this one, are playing for the Empire in the first place, I want to ask? I don't really see the point in all of this. To feel yourself "a brave and resisting victim of terrible sistem" or what? Some sort of masochism?

Dude. Go eat a snickers and calm down. Light Side Sith are actually not that far fetched. Not sure why you call Marr a traitor, given the fact he actually tried to make a better Empire, but whatever.

[OldVengeance]

The Empire hasn't changed a whole lot. They've become increasingly tolerant of aliens, though still much less than the Republic. And they seem to have become a little more pragmatically forward thinking when it comes to treachery, backstabbing, loyalty and the value of having allies. I suspect that they'd probably be more likely than not to stand by an Imperial aligned Alliance.

 

Acina has little tolerance for Sith power plays, but that's more just her own policy, than a long term culture shift. Vowrawn is still "enthusiastic" about them. I suspect Sith politics is going to come into play sooner or later no matter who is in charge of the Empire.

I think we've already seen hints of this with what happens to Malora in Jedi Under Siege.

 

 

But even with Acina as Empress, it's still the same brutal imperialist oppressor it's always been.

 

She's a big believer in slavery. In fact she regarded Lorman as "a powerful reminder that the weak need chains." She seems to take pleasure in ruthlessness and murder on Iokath.

 

And she is ruthlessly cold in her calculations. During the Dread Seed Quest, she remarks that it's a shame that they can't just leave the seeds where they are in order to see what they would do to people. That suggests she has no moral problem with the Dreadseeds use, but only wants them collected on pragmatic grounds.

Edited January 14, 2019 by OldVengeance

[TGaP_Andrey]

Dude. Go eat a snickers and calm down. Light Side Sith are actually not that far fetched. Not sure why you call Marr a traitor, given the fact he actually tried to make a better Empire, but whatever.

Sigh. Good morning, it's 2019 now, we have KotFE like more than 3 years already.

Have you actually played KOTFE? Particularly 12 chapter. Darth Marr doesn't care about Empire at all right now, he's now more concerned about "balance in the Force" or whatever else is usually interests all pathetic Jedi rodents.

Edited January 14, 2019 by TGaP_Andrey

[ApollosNight]

Sigh. Good morning, it's 2019 now, we have KotFE like more than 3 years already.

Have you actually played KOTFE? Particularly 12 chapter. Darth Marr doesn't care about Empire at all right now, he's now more concerned about "balance in the Force" or whatever else is usually interests all pathetic Jedi rodents.

Glad to see you have no grasp of how far-reaching the Force is or how balance affects things.

 

/waves farewell

[OldVengeance]

His entire reason for being there is so that he would "not leave our Empire undefended." He wants you to overthrow the Eternal Empire, so the Sith Empire will be free from Zakuulan domination again. He just concluded that working with Satele is the best way to accomplish that. Edited January 14, 2019 by OldVengeance

[Ardrossan]

Sigh. Good morning, it's 2019 now, we have KotFE like more than 3 years already.

Have you actually played KOTFE? Particularly 12 chapter. Darth Marr doesn't care about Empire at all right now, he's now more concerned about "balance in the Force" or whatever else is usually interests all pathetic Jedi rodents.

 

We have forum PVP so I suppose we have space for forum RP too. I keep waiting for someone with an imperial looking avatar to launch a crusade on those of us with alien avatars.

[Khevar]

The only true side is the dark side, which IS about murder, slavery, racism and pillaging

Which is why the Empire fell behind the Republic during the vanilla story, despite the pubs being chock-a-block full of corruption and weaklings.

 

Too many Sith act like a pack of rabid dogs who cannot think clearly, suddenly see movement out of the corner of their eye, and shout SQUIRREL!! They spend far too much time stabbing each other in the back, killing actual effective imperial officers and having mercurial mood swings that would make Eli Lilly pant with desire. This results in a chaotic mess that even mediocre opposition can take advantage of.

 

The only reason my Bounty Hunter stays with the empire is that it is profitable. But he sneers at the monumental incompetence of the fools in charge who could have had the war won with ease if they weren't so "busy" being ineffective.

[VelvetSanity]

We have forum PVP so I suppose we have space for forum RP too. I keep waiting for someone with an imperial looking avatar to launch a crusade on those of us with alien avatars.

 

Those have been stymied by the RP subforum of the Community Content forum

[xordevoreaux]

Saresh and Malcom seriously turned me off to the Republic. Don't get me wrong, I love Democracy and representation, but I want to believe the Empire isn't that bad.

 

Saresh represented egotistical self-serving corruption, not democracy.

[TGaP_Andrey]

Saresh represented egotistical self-serving corruption, not democracy.

Aaaaaand corruption is exact synonym for democracy, where always wins not the strongest or the most competent i.e. worthy, but the one with the biggest mouth full of bull**it, the fanciest advertising and the widest ties with the Swamp. In comparison with any real democratorship, which is Saresh through and through, even Sith Empire in its lowest looks more efficient and sympathetic. At least the mightiest Sith can just butcher idiots above him almost freely and take their place - like Acina did, though I dislike her for some of the "reforms" - without regards to your stupid "laws", "civil society" or whatevet else degenerates have created for the last hundred years.

Edited January 14, 2019 by TGaP_Andrey

[JattaGin]

No. They have lowered the number of Dark Lords in the Dark Council to 5 from 12. There's no way I'd call it a parliament.

 

Oh. I didn't think anyone would take my post cereal.

[Limariko]

This, but I am not even sure that what you describe would be lightsided, at least in my opinion. Just not being totally dumb perhaps? I tend to consider my main as darksided but not stupid, actually in the contrary very calculating... What would be usually called a pragmatic villain.

 

When it comes to writing things like dual morality, Bioware always hits the same issue of pitching one thing and showing another. Mass Effect's Renegade was pitched as being the action hero type toughy and ended up being the ***hole who makes things difficult. Jade Empire's Closed Fist was supposed to be taking a hard stance at times to foster self reliance, and ended up being the cruel selfish type you wonder why anyone wants to be around them. Here we have Darkside shown as so short sighted comic book evil the only reason you figure they haven't been killed off by a convenient 'accident' is because the outcry on the forums would be enough to have them crash.

 

My Sith are Lightsided to the point they've got the option to use the Pure title, yet they've done more damage to the Jedi through not acting like the stereotype with all the conversions over to the Darkside, driving insane and causing severe crises of belief than what just kill Jedi on sight would do. Even showing mercy to the Republic rank and file who's been repeatedly told the worst to expect from the Sith can start wondering if Sith can be merciful and reasonable, then what else has the Republic and the Jedi been lying to them about?

 

To me, the Darkside is more than just cackling and killing, it's thinking ahead, being careful and calculating while manipulating, being ruthless for a reason and making your opponent be the one to look unhinged.

 

I guess if it came down to a Sith Reformation, my Sith would be the ones nailing the equivalent 99 Theses to the temple doors on Korriban.

[ApollosNight]

When it comes to writing things like dual morality, Bioware always hits the same issue of pitching one thing and showing another. Mass Effect's Renegade was pitched as being the action hero type toughy and ended up being the ***hole who makes things difficult. Jade Empire's Closed Fist was supposed to be taking a hard stance at times to foster self reliance, and ended up being the cruel selfish type you wonder why anyone wants to be around them. Here we have Darkside shown as so short sighted comic book evil the only reason you figure they haven't been killed off by a convenient 'accident' is because the outcry on the forums would be enough to have them crash.

 

My Sith are Lightsided to the point they've got the option to use the Pure title, yet they've done more damage to the Jedi through not acting like the stereotype with all the conversions over to the Darkside, driving insane and causing severe crises of belief than what just kill Jedi on sight would do. Even showing mercy to the Republic rank and file who's been repeatedly told the worst to expect from the Sith can start wondering if Sith can be merciful and reasonable, then what else has the Republic and the Jedi been lying to them about?

 

To me, the Darkside is more than just cackling and killing, it's thinking ahead, being careful and calculating while manipulating, being ruthless for a reason and making your opponent be the one to look unhinged.

 

I guess if it came down to a Sith Reformation, my Sith would be the ones nailing the equivalent 99 Theses to the temple doors on Korriban.

 

This is why I love this game, because of the dynamic between Light and Dark choices. It's already established in the lore that Dark Side choices can be ridiculous (I'm thinking of how often Vader killed leaders in the Empire, thus weakening it internally). This shows how being "Light Side" is much more dynamic than siding with the Republic; it's more about the motives behind your actions that determines what side you end up on on the meter.

[Iheaca]

To me, the Darkside is more than just cackling and killing, it's thinking ahead, being careful and calculating while manipulating, being ruthless for a reason and making your opponent be the one to look unhinged.

 

I guess if it came down to a Sith Reformation, my Sith would be the ones nailing the equivalent 99 Theses to the temple doors on Korriban.

The limit between light and dark is so relative anyway. When I say that I still consider my toon as dark-sided, it is mostly because she will always choose what serves her needs over altruistic of good choices. But planning ahead for long term solutions is part of it and if being nice, good and magnanimous makes the situation go in the right direction for a long term profit, then that's the right move.

 

Come, let's create a new Empire that does not eat itself from the inside.

[Goreshaga]

The limit between light and dark is so relative anyway. When I say that I still consider my toon as dark-sided, it is mostly because she will always choose what serves her needs over altruistic of good choices. But planning ahead for long term solutions is part of it and if being nice, good and magnanimous makes the situation go in the right direction for a long term profit, then that's the right move.

 

Come, let's create a new Empire that does not eat itself from the inside.

She's very similar to my Nox, except that if he can do something that will actually harm the Empire while serving his own goals, he'll do it.

He absolutely hates the Empire.

He was ok with following Marr because he felt he had a debt to repay, but now that he's dead, there's no one to keep his hatred of the Empire in check, so he'll go back to his goal of destroying it and if he has to work with the Republic for that he'll do it.

 

I'm actually quite looking forward to the interactions between my saboteur Nox and Vowrawn, this could be quite interesting as they're kinda similar. I hope we'll get some battle of wits between them.

 

 

Other than that, i don't think the Empire has changed that much. While Acina tells she want to follow her word and keep true to her alliance with the Alliance, the first thing she does after the war with Zakuul is over is run to Iokath to try to seize control of a superweapon behind our back while tecchnically Iokath belongs to us

 

 

That Empire you want to build could be interesting to him though

Edited January 15, 2019 by Goreshaga