Story Progression: STOP KILLING OFF COMPANIONS

[Spyderwraith]

The Torian / Vette is true, unless you're playing a SW, then Vette is saved by default.

 

I think the default choice concerning Theron is that he lives and is still part of the Alliance, iirc i skiped Copero / Nathema on an old IA and Theron was alive during Ossus

 

I forgot to mention the SW Vette is auto saved

thanks

and I have really only played through iokath Nathema once. I think there is a Dev post outlining every automatic choice in the forums some place

 

[devilkat]

You're kidding, right?

 

I play majority empire and will have to use skip to Ossus. Just who exactly gets killed? (wrap in spoilers tag)

 

Even though I play empire, and sith, I still let people live to see what role they play in the galaxy at any future date. I mean everyone gets a pass to live, even no name npcs you only see once. EVERYONE.

 

That's bonkers that default story skip would kill people off willy nilly

 

I haven't used a boost or skip, but my husband did on a Bounty Hunter. This was back before even the Traitor arc, but the default BH...

 

Had done all the things to make Koth made and leave (killing the civilians in the swamp, letting Kalaiyo blow up the Spire,

 

Bioware stated in a post on the forums that skipping all of that content would cause the choices to default to your faction. They just set the Empire as DS and Republic as LS. I like to mix it up and play LS and DS on both sides, so this won't work for me.

[Darth_Advent]

No, make all companions capable of being killed. Waifu abuse is my fetish.

[Rheshalea]

In the case of Arcann, I don't feel he can can't towards the bricking. Though the coming to love you aspect, I can see from a SW point of view.

 

But the point is, Arcann doesn't get to count as being part of the LI's and bricking, because he was never meant to be an LI, he was meant to be dead or alive and the romance came later by those most likely wanting a human force using male rather than any real love for him, for their characters.

 

That's a fair point.

[MishaCantu]

Snip

 

Because all that's happening right now is that it looks like nothing more than bitterness in calling for another character's head/exclusion from the story/bricking. All that's going to come of it is that Bioware's just going to brick her too. It's not as though that's going to magically lead to more Theron or Vector or Quinn content. It's just going to mean they say "whatever, no more romance content" and everyone will suffer.

 

Well said, however, I think it was all an intentional way for Bioware to slim down content for economic reasons. We have 19 or so LI companions now, and the money it would cost to make individual cutscenes with LI companions has to be more than they can budget. It's just not economically feasible anymore.

 

When they made the decision to 'kill' the first companion, I took it as a sign that we will be getting less and less LI interaction, especially once all of them are returned. We have only 1 or two left unless they make Scourge a LI also. They could have made the returns more engaging surely, some were actually quite disappointing. But going forward, I don't expect much from our LI unless it is a letter, and I'll feel damned lucky if we get that.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but all the signs are leaning that way. I'll prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And like the rest of you, please, no more deaths.

Edited December 21, 2018 by MishaCantu

[Atma]

Seriously ?

Besides T7, Gault, Raina and Lana who's even left to kill who is in every character's story and doesn't already have a kill / exile option ?

 

Those guys need to go too. Less is more.

[SithKoriandr]

Those guys need to go too. Less is more.

 

Companions are one of the few things that set TOR apart from other MMOs. It used to be their class stories, but when they merged them, it wasn't the story anymore.

 

Now it's just got "Well, we're SW, so you're here." going for it.

[Lium]

Theron should have never had a kill option because now he's effectively dead for everyone. They should have handled him the same way they handled Quinn back in the day, during the SW class story. No kill option.

 

If you're playing DS, you can choose a dialogue option that says, "If you ever betray me again, you die." Theron's "betrayal" turned out not to be a betrayal at all. In fact, just the opposite. He was working to protect you and the Alliance.

 

Meanwhile, Quinn's was far worse. In the SW story, he straight up betrays you and was actually working against you. No ulterior motive. Not double agent stuff. He was just actively working against you. Then when he fails, he's like, "Yeah, my bad. Won't happen again."

 

He had no kill option back then. BW should have handled Theron the exact same way. Can't imagine they'll bring him back for any meaningful content because he's now not available for everyone.

[KyaniteD]

Theron should have never had a kill option because now he's effectively dead for everyone. They should have handled him the same way they handled Quinn back in the day, during the SW class story. No kill option.

 

If you're playing DS, you can choose a dialogue option that says, "If you ever betray me again, you die." Theron's "betrayal" turned out not to be a betrayal at all. In fact, just the opposite. He was working to protect you and the Alliance.

 

Meanwhile, Quinn's was far worse. In the SW story, he straight up betrays you and was actually working against you. No ulterior motive. Not double agent stuff. He was just actively working against you. Then when he fails, he's like, "Yeah, my bad. Won't happen again."

 

He had no kill option back then. BW should have handled Theron the exact same way. Can't imagine they'll bring him back for any meaningful content because he's now not available for everyone.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. While my first reaction was an urge to throw them out an airlock, I remembered I'm playing an MMO and what that option would mean for global story-telling in the game.

 

I found my own ways to punish Quinn and Skadge and get my revenge. Head canon is a magic thing and I feel sorry for those who rely solely on the story content provided by the writers. Playing an MMO means making concessions to the genre, and one of those is that options in the individual experience have to be balanced against the feasibility and manageability of a collective experience.

[SithKoriandr]

Theron should have never had a kill option because now he's effectively dead for everyone. They should have handled him the same way they handled Quinn back in the day, during the SW class story. No kill option.

 

If you're playing DS, you can choose a dialogue option that says, "If you ever betray me again, you die." Theron's "betrayal" turned out not to be a betrayal at all. In fact, just the opposite. He was working to protect you and the Alliance.

 

Meanwhile, Quinn's was far worse. In the SW story, he straight up betrays you and was actually working against you. No ulterior motive. Not double agent stuff. He was just actively working against you. Then when he fails, he's like, "Yeah, my bad. Won't happen again."

 

He had no kill option back then. BW should have handled Theron the exact same way. Can't imagine they'll bring him back for any meaningful content because he's now not available for everyone.

 

I agree on it being a bad move to give Theron a kill option, but they also didn't actually give a kill option, they gave a leave for dead option.

 

So, they need to hurry up and have him put back on everyone's alliance and back into everyone's story.

[Jedi_Consular_El]

Theron should have never had a kill option because now he's effectively dead for everyone. They should have handled him the same way they handled Quinn back in the day, during the SW class story. No kill option.

 

If you're playing DS, you can choose a dialogue option that says, "If you ever betray me again, you die." Theron's "betrayal" turned out not to be a betrayal at all. In fact, just the opposite. He was working to protect you and the Alliance.

 

Meanwhile, Quinn's was far worse. In the SW story, he straight up betrays you and was actually working against you. No ulterior motive. Not double agent stuff. He was just actively working against you. Then when he fails, he's like, "Yeah, my bad. Won't happen again."

 

He had no kill option back then. BW should have handled Theron the exact same way. Can't imagine they'll bring him back for any meaningful content because he's now not available for everyone.

 

This. I was so bitter they even put it in. It is clear in the story that there are no pragmatic factors( like the "will only slow you down" thing frequently used in similar scenarios) to leave him for dead either, and by the time we are presented with the choice, he has proven himself loyal, so it is not a question of not wanting to take any chances either. This option paints the PC who picks it as just plain petty, cartoonishly evil and holding grudges to the point it clouds their rational mind. And honestly, I feel the only reason it is there in the first place was to applease the full DS trigger-happy edgelords that dwell in the Dromund Kaas general chat.

[Atma]

This. I was so bitter they even put it in. It is clear in the story that there are no pragmatic factors( like the "will only slow you down" thing frequently used in similar scenarios) to leave him for dead either, and by the time we are presented with the choice, he has proven himself loyal, so it is not a question of not wanting to take any chances either. This option paints the PC who picks it as just plain petty, cartoonishly evil and holding grudges to the point it clouds their rational mind. And honestly, I feel the only reason it is there in the first place was to applease the full DS trigger-happy edgelords that dwell in the Dromund Kaas general chat.

 

I think it was more about BioWare wanting to cut Lana and Theron loose (or at least severely cut down their involvement) and move on. If they had plans for Theron they simply wouldnt include the option to kill him off.

[KyaniteD]

I think it was more about BioWare wanting to cut Lana and Theron loose (or at least severely cut down their involvement) and move on. If they had plans for Theron they simply wouldnt include the option to kill him off.

 

Unless he'll pull a Revan, and we'll end up with either a LS Theron if we kept him alive or a DS Theron if we left him...

[krakadyla]

I think it was more about BioWare wanting to cut Lana and Theron loose (or at least severely cut down their involvement) and move on. If they had plans for Theron they simply wouldnt include the option to kill him off.

 

That's my take as well. They wrote marriage proposals at the end of Nathema to placate romance fans who are usually the most vocal, and now Lana and Theron will gradually fade out and join the rest of cardboard cutouts. I predict next story bits, however many of them there will be, will have similar format like most chapters since KOTFE -- a "guest star" companion like Gault or Tau for the duration of the chapter and no input whatsoever from the menagerie of assorted companions collected since KOTFE.

[SithKoriandr]

And honestly, I feel the only reason it is there in the first place was to applease the full DS trigger-happy edgelords that dwell in the Dromund Kaas general chat.

 

To appease a vocal minority. "He betrayed me! Kill him!" "But it's obviously fake." "Don't care! All who go against me die!"

 

Then we watch them go off and romance Kaliyo or Arcann.

[Jedi_Consular_El]

To appease a vocal minority. "He betrayed me! Kill him!" "But it's obviously fake." "Don't care! All who go against me die!"

 

Then we watch them go off and romance Kaliyo or Arcann.

 

I mean, I am okay with peeps romancing either( as a person who romanced Arcann on one of her characters among other things, besides I've seen people stanning worse things than both Kaliyo and Arcann, and the sequel trilogy fandom alone is a huge example for me when it comes to this), but this is honestly hypocritical. You spare people who have done worse, but let a character who has been loyal to you all along die? Pffft...

[SithKoriandr]

I mean, I am okay with peeps romancing either( as a person who romanced Arcann on one of her characters among other things, besides I've seen people stanning worse things than both Kaliyo and Arcann, and the sequel trilogy fandom alone is a huge example for me when it comes to this), but this is honestly hypocritical. You spare people who have done worse, but let a character who has been loyal to you all along die? Pffft...

 

That's just it. The one's calling for the death of companions, it's all about just wanting them gone. They don't care about how it effects the story for them or others.

[Damask_Rose]

Meanwhile, Quinn's was far worse. In the SW story, he straight up betrays you and was actually working against you. No ulterior motive. Not double agent stuff. He was just actively working against you. Then when he fails, he's like, "Yeah, my bad. Won't happen again."

 

Not quite true. The story was deliberately written to have two interpretations. That is one. The other is that Quinn sabotaged the fight in the belief that the Warrior would kill him in the process. In the writer's words.

[krakadyla]

To appease a vocal minority. "He betrayed me! Kill him!" "But it's obviously fake." "Don't care! All who go against me die!"

 

Then we watch them go off and romance Kaliyo or Arcann.

 

I wouldn't believe for one minute that adult professionals with years of experience could be influenced by opinions of the lowest common denominator, but even if we presume so, those "edgelords" still did not win, because Theron's death was written in such a way that the Outlander does not carry out some B-movie'ish ego-fellating "righteous revenge", but leaves a wounded man, who actually did not betray anything, to slowly die out of petty revenge, and it was deliberately written like that.

 

All in all, Theron had a good run. Unlike the majority of companions (Lana included), he had a proper character arc (not his fault that writers handed him the idiot ball on Iokath), had fun doing spy things while the Outlander was gathering bear arses for dailies, and had a properly poignant death -- to die alone, betrayed by the very person he risked his own life to protect....d'aaaaawww. Du riechst so gut.

[Jedi_Consular_El]

I wouldn't believe for one minute that adult professionals with years of experience could be influenced by opinions of the lowest common denominator, but even if we presume so, those "edgelords" still did not win, because Theron's death was written in such a way that the Outlander does not carry out some B-movie'ish ego-fellating "righteous revenge", but leaves a wounded man, who actually did not betray anything, to slowly die out of petty revenge, and it was deliberately written like that.

 

All in all, Theron had a good run. Unlike the majority of companions (Lana included), he had a proper character arc (not his fault that writers handed him the idiot ball on Iokath), had fun doing spy things while the Outlander was gathering bear arses for dailies, and had a properly poignant death -- to die alone, betrayed by the very person he risked his own life to protect....d'aaaaawww. Du riechst so gut.

 

However it may look from Theron's arc perspective, you do realize it looks both evil and stupid from the Outlander's perspective to be this focused on petty revenge, regardless on whether it is actually killing him or leaving him to die? Not acting while someone dies when one is able to do something is just as bad as actually laying a hand on them. So either way, if the Outlander takes this choice, they are responsible for another man's death out of sheer pettiness and stupidity. Whether they killed him themselves or left him to die, these two are equal to me in this case.

[Ackerprincess]

This. I was so bitter they even put it in. It is clear in the story that there are no pragmatic factors( like the "will only slow you down" thing frequently used in similar scenarios) to leave him for dead either, and by the time we are presented with the choice, he has proven himself loyal, so it is not a question of not wanting to take any chances either. This option paints the PC who picks it as just plain petty, cartoonishly evil and holding grudges to the point it clouds their rational mind. And honestly, I feel the only reason it is there in the first place was to applease the full DS trigger-happy edgelords that dwell in the Dromund Kaas general chat.

 

Also, how come Theron doesn't react any differently when his lover chooses to leave him behind?

[Shayddow]

A large part of the problem is that they chose to make the choice FOR you, based on Faction. You could have a Level 5 Lightside Inquisitor, for example, and the default would still be: you're empire, you kill them all....

 

I think it would be better if you could bring along the companion of your choice (like you did during SOR) so at least the companion of choice would have screen-time, if not dialogue.

 

You can tell they are really crimping in the story budgetwise though. I took one of my inquisitors through (who had done all of the content, so I didn't have any wacky choices made for me), and Lana had on her default outfit, even though I had dressed her in inquisitor robes. And in one of the scenes they were sort of bleeding through, so the clothes she had on looked "layered".

 

What I didn't like going back in the story in general was the Vette/Torian choice that they forced everyone who did the content to make.

 

 

They are also assuming every Dark side imperial would choose to kill off certain companions. Maybe they would, or maybe they would choose to show their "darkness" in other ways- i.e. go back to corellia and have jorgan start killing off pubs for example..... :-)

 

 

I think the only way it would really be fair is if you could do a "checklist" on characters (kill/keep) to jump through content, rather than forcing everyone with 20 plus characters on all servers to take each and every one of them through all the content (ya know, some of us have jobs....so we don't spend ALL our time gaming...)

[Goreshaga]

You can tell they are really crimping in the story budgetwise though. I took one of my inquisitors through (who had done all of the content, so I didn't have any wacky choices made for me), and Lana had on her default outfit, even though I had dressed her in inquisitor robes. And in one of the scenes they were sort of bleeding through, so the clothes she had on looked "layered".

If you esc the convo and then talk to her again, she'll have the outfit you put on her and not the default customisation during the cutscene

 

Though i had an other problem during that first cutscene, a part of her right hip was missing, but i'd rather put the blame on a bug on the outfit i put on her than anything else here.

[aerockyul]

A large part of the problem is that they chose to make the choice FOR you, based on Faction.

Snip

I think the only way it would really be fair is if you could do a "checklist" on characters (kill/keep) to jump through content, rather than forcing everyone with 20 plus characters on all servers to take each and every one of them through all the content (ya know, some of us have jobs....so we don't spend ALL our time gaming...)

 

I mean, I get where this line of thinking is coming from, and you’re not the only one who thinks it based on a lot of similar threads. I’ve seen these themes come up ever since those stupid boosted tokens were introduced.

 

But if the choices are important and you know what choices you want to make, why don’t you just play the game? Why is there any expectation that Bioware needs to continue helping people skip their game or make assumptions about the hundreds of choices you could have made up to each expansion point?

 

I understand not wanting to go through the story over and over, but that’s what this game is. The same FPs, the same heroics, the same Ops, the same warzones, the same flight simulators. The only thing with any diversity is the story and you want Bioware to cater to impatience and mistaken assumptions for thousands of people who probably could all have different thoughts and feelings about all permutations of choices that would be expected to be made. They can’t even keep a simple customization straight on a returning companion because there are literally millions of different ways to dress them up and several different facial customizations that will add multipliers to those millions of possible combinations. All that reduction for a single companion. A pretty vocal community has been angry about it for two years.

 

It’s a complete losing situation for everyone if Bioware were to actually give in to this demand to people who feel they must skip the story but want certain specific things to be catered to them all the same.

 

If you want a character to be a certain way with certain choices with certain companions with certain dead or alive, you have 100% power to make that happen, and Bioware would only open themselves up to even more ridicule and scorn for getting any of that right and still making a tiny wrong assumption that you’d go ballistic over because you wanted it a certain way.

 

*use of the word “you” is general and not directed at any one person except all players who willingly use boosts and/or willingly skip content and then want Bioware to put everything down to appease those people with shortcuts and more mistaken assumptions

[IoNonSoEVero]

I agree that if one wants specific choices, the only way to lock those down is to play through the content. That gets tedious especially when one doesn't like the story, but if it's important to have those choices, it seems like the most obvious way to ensure they're taken. If romances or certain characters are important, playing through makes sense, too.

 

On the other hand I do share the frustration that the auto-completes - for both the Ossus leap and the KOTFE/ET boosts - cast anyone playing Imperial as a puppy-kicking sociopath who has taken literally every DS and cruel choice in the entire game and killed every single person ever presented with a kill choice.

 

DA:I had a function that allowed players to set up their world state and create their characters before they went in, and with something so complex as what we have now, that might have been a prudent idea. And it also might have stopped some of the confusion and errors we're seeing now, with players finding that their own choices seem to be overridden by auto-completes even when they're different (ie, the issue some Imperial players currently have with Koth vanishing or Quinn being unavailable even when he was saved).

Edited December 23, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero