Why is Bioware so silent on major gear issues from 5.10?

[Rion_Starkiller]

...

 

For some reason, Glamour Shots at the mall is what really stood out for me

[olagatonjedi]

ABsolutely.

 

But when we've gone from 200+ servers to just 6 the ONLY conclusion that can be arrived at is that on balance those changes have been negative in their outcome.

 

That is they have ticked off many, many times more players than they have benefited.

 

The math don't lie.

 

 

All The Best

You can link the actual process of reducing the number of servers to a specific era, but you cant link the reason for the reduction of servers to a specific era.

[Lhancelot]

but you cant link the reason for the reduction of servers to a specific era.

 

That's true. But we can link the reasons for the reduction of servers to a specific era.

[ivanhedgehog]

Specific implant required,already have it on my char,also rep and 3 crystals but i cant buy masterwork version of that same *********** implant -.-

 

I had to unequip mine into my inventory for it to allow me to upgrade it.

[TrixxieTriss]

That's true. But we can link the reasons for the reduction of servers to a specific era.

 

Mostly due to self inflicted mistakes from Bioware.

[olagatonjedi]

That's true. But we can link the reasons for the reduction of servers to a specific era.

If anything the timing and process of server merging shows how much the previous dev crew neglected areas of the game that needed improvements. Tge 5.x era started those improvements and we have a much better and much more active game than we have hsd in the last 4-5 years.

[olagatonjedi]

A Hutt in a fuchsia with white polka-dotted speedo / banana hammock (for the Aussies), royal blue feathered boa, holding a Swarovski crystal glass of a freshly chilled Chopin martini, smiling at the camera.

Carrie Fisher has nothing on this....

[djordjelackovic]

I had to unequip mine into my inventory for it to allow me to upgrade it.[/Q

 

Ill try that ty

Edited February 20, 2019 by djordjelackovic

[Syroe]

These are good questions, so let me try to address them.

 

1 - This is an intended change. That being said, we know there is definitely some friction from this change and so keep raising your concerns/feedback which I can pass to the team. We have made no secret of the fact that we know we are due for some big itemization changes to address a variety of issues around gearing. Please keep telling us what you would like to see in the future from gearing in SWTOR. We will continue to gather feedback and as we get into the next year, we will have active conversations with you about future gearing plans.

 

Thank you all for your continued feedback. Bigger itemization changes will come and we will definitely talk through them with you when they get here (not soon™). Thanks all.

 

-eric

 

So how about lubricating some of that friction from this particular change by giving players an idea of what this new direction might be? Rather than creating some new fresh hell of a gearing system, putting it on the PTS and when the inevitable storm of ***** gets going, putting on a raincoat and shouting "We appreciate the feedback, but unfortunately we're too far along producing this to implement any of the meaningful ideas you've given us! But we really do appreciate the feedback and we urge you to keep it coming."

 

I would also like to point out that we are a quarter of the way "through the new year" without a peep on this subject. Which, I'm sure I don't have to tell you(and yet...) has lead to players getting increasingly frustrated/vocal about it causing friction(not gonna lie, the use of the word is starting to grow on me) with players that really want to support you and hold up this non-explanation explanation like Simba at the start of Lion King.

[KendraP]

I would also like to point out that we are a quarter of the way "through the new year" without a peep on this subject. Which, I'm sure I don't have to tell you(and yet...) has lead to players getting increasingly frustrated/vocal about it causing friction(not gonna lie, the use of the word is starting to grow on me) with players that really want to support you and hold up this non-explanation explanation like Simba at the start of Lion King.

Technically Musco did mention it in my thread moping about gear:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9707698#edit9707698

 

That said, all he mentioned was a "discussion" in the "coming weeks", and double down on their decisions.

 

So my solution personally is to refuse to do ossus or use the new gear.

[olagatonjedi]

Technically Musco did mention it in my thread moping about gear:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9707698#edit9707698

 

That said, all he mentioned was a "discussion" in the "coming weeks", and double down on their decisions.

 

So my solution personally is to refuse to do ossus or use the new gear.

My solution is to acquire 258 on all my toons and alts. So far so good.

[Lhancelot]

My solution is to acquire 258 on all my toons and alts. So far so good.

 

How far along are you? Any in full 258s yet?

[KendraP]

My solution is to acquire 258 on all my toons and alts. So far so good.

 

Good for you. I on the other hand have better things to do than be a statistic for Musco to pat himself on the back with.

 

Im not happy, i think adding new gear without having a major expansion is the epitome of idiocy, and changing the gearing system to artifically inflate participation in the new area is both petty and manipulative.

 

So why should I lead Musco to believe I am happy and have no idea why I'm here belittling their tremendous success I was a part of? Nope, you can enjoy being a sheep.

[olagatonjedi]

How far along are you? Any in full 258s yet?

Actually yes, I have a few at 258, but a few others 254-257, so maybe a week or two more.

[olagatonjedi]

Good for you. I on the other hand have better things to do than be a statistic for Musco to pat himself on the back with.

 

Im not happy, i think adding new gear without having a major expansion is the epitome of idiocy, and changing the gearing system to artifically inflate participation in the new area is both petty and manipulative.

 

So why should I lead Musco to believe I am happy and have no idea why I'm here belittling their tremendous success I was a part of? Nope, you can enjoy being a sheep.

Actually, adding new gear without a full expansion gives players who struggle with a specific level of older content a better chance at completing it - whether its master mode chapters, HM or NIM content, flashpoints, etc. The gear may push them over the hump. Perhaps you are a player who can complete everything in the lowest level gear possible, but there are thousands of others who may not be able to. The devs are making sure players have the opportunity because they understand that idea.

[mrphstar]

Good for you. I on the other hand have better things to do than be a statistic for Musco to pat himself on the back with.

 

Im not happy, i think adding new gear without having a major expansion is the epitome of idiocy, and changing the gearing system to artifically inflate participation in the new area is both petty and manipulative.

 

So why should I lead Musco to believe I am happy and have no idea why I'm here belittling their tremendous success I was a part of? Nope, you can enjoy being a sheep.

 

dude you are literally the vegan of gearing.

you dont care about the new gear so much, that you take every chance to tell people how you dont want to have it and wont be a "statistic".

 

we get it, you dont like it.

Edited March 23, 2019 by mrphstar

[KendraP]

dude you are literally the vegan of gearing.

you dont care about the new gear so much, that you take every chance to tell people how you dont want to have it and wont be a "statistic".

 

we get it, you dont like it.

 

I care very much about the new gear. I despise the sheer principle. Furthermore, I am an unhappy paying customer. Why shouldn't Musco be aware of this?

Edited March 23, 2019 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

I care very much about the new gear. I despise the sheer principle. Furthermore, I am an unhappy paying customer. Why shouldn't Musco be aware of this?

You dont think they entered the business knowing that at least 50% of their customer base may like or dislike any given idea or update because thats the nature of a business that covers a wide range of areas, content and interests?

[Sareeph]

You dont think they entered the business knowing that at least 50% of their customer base may like or dislike any given idea or update because thats the nature of a business that covers a wide range of areas, content and interests?

 

They are doing what they used to do prior to the Zakuul Story arc. Making a tier of gear for completing NiM Op's. This is the first we have had since SnV came out. The difference is we no longer have separate gear types between PvP and PvE. As seen in other posts throughout these forums and on Reddit, people complained that if someone did NiM content and also did PvP, they would have a leg up over "purists" who choose only to PvP. Because of this they had to make it widely available. I'd imagine that since there are more players that fully or partially partake in PvE than there are who solely PvP, they chose a PvE format to give a greater number of players a chance to get the gear. If a weight lifter only chooses to work the upper body, then they must be prepared to have weak legs. So too the player who limits the content they play. They will not be the strongest overall in the game. It's their choice and they are the only ones who suffer.

[Lhancelot]

If a weight lifter only chooses to work the upper body, then they must be prepared to have weak legs. So too the player who limits the content they play. They will not be the strongest overall in the game. It's their choice and they are the only ones who suffer.

 

I'd like to use your analogy because it's a good one, only I want to pose it a little differently.

 

BW decided to funnel gearing through limited PVE activities, and because PVPers, alt players, and other types of players were ignored these types of players at best don't play the new PVE parts out of resentment or disinterest and at worst have dropped their subs.

 

Only the gameplay of a small niche of players has developed with this main focus on Ossus and MM raiding. The game is worse off when they develop a huge part of the game like gearing and center it around only one type of activity no matter what that activity is.

 

This game developed over the years to cater to players that enjoyed lots of activities, not just PVE, PVP, or Storymode.

 

When they make game design changes that punish alts or go counter to what they have been doing for years all I see happen is more subs drop.

 

If the changes they made were good ones, you'd see the population rising. Instead for the last 2-3 years after every major update subs are lost.

 

They keep making highly unpopular game design changes which, had they been a little more open to hearing what it is the players want via feedback they probably would not have made some of these major changes which have clearly pushed many people to drop their subs.

 

Basically your analogy rings true in the manner that SWTOR has chosen to only work a small part of their body which indirectly causes neglect for other parts that need developed. This weightlifter (BW) chose to only work out their upper body (MM raid PVE gearing system) and as a result their lower body (population of PVPers, other types of players) has shrunk due to neglect.

[KendraP]

i don't understand this analogy in it's entirety...

 

are we saying people should be required to play all parts of the game to get gear?

are we saying BW is limiting themselves in developing content?

 

For whatever record, the only SWTOR content I have never done, and due to time and group constraints will likely never try, are NiM/MM ops. (outside of Nefra and Writhing Horror, which I have done (and not during the shadow double stance bug)).

 

Despite this, I still feel adding gear in the first place was stupid, their excuses for adding it were even more stupid, and the idea that people "need" gear to grind toward at this point in an expansion is the epitome of stupidity.

 

My refusal to partake of the ossus grind is not limiting my ability - i am more than capable of completing ossus. In fact, I could probably do ossus on my guild joke slinger if I really wanted to. The point is that I am assuming (since they refuse to speak any detail with clarity or certainty) their metrics for "satisfaction" or "pleasure" with new content (and almost certainly what people "enjoy" doing) are based on simple participation - i.e. X million of players have participated in Ossus since it released, so it's been an overwhelming success! Thus, my idea is that, by limiting said gear acquisition to Ossus, players (who are naturally driven to seek the best shinies the game has to offer) will go play Ossus. Thus, we are spending our time on Ossus (at the expense of whatever else we would normally be doing). Thus, BW "metrics" reflect an overwhelming participation in Ossus, and it's been absolutely loved by everyone, and anyone saying otherwise is just a vocal minority like Kendra.

 

I should hope the logical pitfall is so glaring that even Musco can see it. By locking the gear behind Ossus, naturally players will go do Ossus, because it's the way to get the shiny. That doesn't mean they enjoy Ossus, just that Ossus is the only way to get the best shiny.

 

I would in fact encourage others to follow along and refuse to chase the most recent shiny, as any participation at all deems the content/idea/adding gear at random a success. Don't be a statistic for Musco and co to manipulate.

 

That said, I fully expect the shiny objects to be far too big a draw for enough people to ignore for this strategy to work to actually make a change. It seems patting yourselves on the back for giant numbers despite no change in actual skill is more important than making a point.

Edited March 23, 2019 by KendraP

[Sareeph]

I'd like to use your analogy because it's a good one, only I want to pose it a little differently.

 

BW decided to funnel gearing through limited PVE activities, and because PVPers, alt players, and other types of players were ignored these types of players at best don't play the new PVE parts out of resentment or disinterest and at worst have dropped their subs.

 

Only the gameplay of a small niche of players has developed with this main focus on Ossus and MM raiding. The game is worse off when they develop a huge part of the game like gearing and center it around only one type of activity no matter what that activity is.

 

This game developed over the years to cater to players that enjoyed lots of activities, not just PVE, PVP, or Storymode.

 

When they make game design changes that punish alts or go counter to what they have been doing for years all I see happen is more subs drop.

 

If the changes they made were good ones, you'd see the population rising. Instead for the last 2-3 years after every major update subs are lost.

 

They keep making highly unpopular game design changes which, had they been a little more open to hearing what it is the players want via feedback they probably would not have made some of these major changes which have clearly pushed many people to drop their subs.

 

Basically your analogy rings true in the manner that SWTOR has chosen to only work a small part of their body which indirectly causes neglect for other parts that need developed. This weightlifter (BW) chose to only work out their upper body (MM raid PVE gearing system) and as a result their lower body (population of PVPers, other types of players) has shrunk due to neglect.

 

Small part? You mean one part at a time right? We saw Chapters. Then PvP ala Season of PvP. Now they finally make a NiM raid (something that was last introduced in April of 2013) and give out NiM gear like they always did before and it's neglecting parts? We all have seen that they do not have the resources to pump out content like they used to. Every time they do something for one part it's neglecting the rest? Not buying it. The problem with content is that this is a story driven game which lends itself to PvE. If you made a quest line about PvP then you would be doing PvE to do PvP (Oh the irony). Story requires more time and resources than a map so yeah, when a longer time is spent making something not PvP, that should be expected.

 

 

My analogy was totally neglecting one part forever. Such has not been the case. They have been rotating types of content. It may not be at the quantity or speed that people want but like I said, limited resources.

[olagatonjedi]

They are doing what they used to do prior to the Zakuul Story arc. Making a tier of gear for completing NiM Op's. This is the first we have had since SnV came out. The difference is we no longer have separate gear types between PvP and PvE. As seen in other posts throughout these forums and on Reddit, people complained that if someone did NiM content and also did PvP, they would have a leg up over "purists" who choose only to PvP. Because of this they had to make it widely available. I'd imagine that since there are more players that fully or partially partake in PvE than there are who solely PvP, they chose a PvE format to give a greater number of players a chance to get the gear. If a weight lifter only chooses to work the upper body, then they must be prepared to have weak legs. So too the player who limits the content they play. They will not be the strongest overall in the game. It's their choice and they are the only ones who suffer.

Exactly. Its a point ive made many times over on these very forums.

[olagatonjedi]

I'd like to use your analogy because it's a good one, only I want to pose it a little differently.

 

BW decided to funnel gearing through limited PVE activities, and because PVPers, alt players, and other types of players were ignored these types of players at best don't play the new PVE parts out of resentment or disinterest and at worst have dropped their subs.

 

Only the gameplay of a small niche of players has developed with this main focus on Ossus and MM raiding. The game is worse off when they develop a huge part of the game like gearing and center it around only one type of activity no matter what that activity is.

 

This game developed over the years to cater to players that enjoyed lots of activities, not just PVE, PVP, or Storymode.

 

When they make game design changes that punish alts or go counter to what they have been doing for years all I see happen is more subs drop.

 

If the changes they made were good ones, you'd see the population rising. Instead for the last 2-3 years after every major update subs are lost.

 

They keep making highly unpopular game design changes which, had they been a little more open to hearing what it is the players want via feedback they probably would not have made some of these major changes which have clearly pushed many people to drop their subs.

 

Basically your analogy rings true in the manner that SWTOR has chosen to only work a small part of their body which indirectly causes neglect for other parts that need developed. This weightlifter (BW) chose to only work out their upper body (MM raid PVE gearing system) and as a result their lower body (population of PVPers, other types of players) has shrunk due to neglect.

The analogy is spot on. A player has more opportunities to get gear upgrades if they participate in more overall (or specific focused) content, rather than limiting themselves by ones own choice to not partake for whatever reason they utilize (fun value, time requirement, story, etc).

 

But one update does not necessarily mean they are neglecting any specific group. As we have seen, and has been stated by Eric, they like to do small, more frequent updates which have demonstrated that, over time, they like to touch a variety of areas of the game, providing its own incentive to play. Not too long ago, we were talking (or complaining, depending on your stance) about how CMTs were primarily obtained by PVPing, which essentially encouraged non-pvpers to become more engaged, which it did.

 

If people leave, they leave - and BW knows this. Not because they are punishing them, but because people react hastily (and sometimes irrationally) and BW also knows their game is cyclical, and can be played casually, which means if they dont cater (not punish, btw) to one population today, the next update may interest players of that population enough to come back. If a player takes a change as a punishment, thats the players choice - they control their own reactions and perceptions of things, and act accordingly. Many times it doesnt matter what someone does, they will never get the reaction they hope for, and they likely understand this as well.

 

Changes can also be done, and interpretted in a larger scale, rather than in a vacuum as your point hints at. Just because they encourage alt play one year doesn't mean they need to encourage alt play with every update. I would expect later down the road, people who took the time to build up alts will have their shine-time again. Again, a perfect example of a cyclical game.

 

Hell, even conquest is cyclical lol. How much more writing does there need to be on the walls about how this game is currently being developed?

[olagatonjedi]

i don't understand this analogy in it's entirety...

 

are we saying people should be required to play all parts of the game to get gear?

are we saying BW is limiting themselves in developing content?

 

For whatever record, the only SWTOR content I have never done, and due to time and group constraints will likely never try, are NiM/MM ops. (outside of Nefra and Writhing Horror, which I have done (and not during the shadow double stance bug)).

 

Despite this, I still feel adding gear in the first place was stupid, their excuses for adding it were even more stupid, and the idea that people "need" gear to grind toward at this point in an expansion is the epitome of stupidity.

 

My refusal to partake of the ossus grind is not limiting my ability - i am more than capable of completing ossus. In fact, I could probably do ossus on my guild joke slinger if I really wanted to. The point is that I am assuming (since they refuse to speak any detail with clarity or certainty) their metrics for "satisfaction" or "pleasure" with new content (and almost certainly what people "enjoy" doing) are based on simple participation - i.e. X million of players have participated in Ossus since it released, so it's been an overwhelming success! Thus, my idea is that, by limiting said gear acquisition to Ossus, players (who are naturally driven to seek the best shinies the game has to offer) will go play Ossus. Thus, we are spending our time on Ossus (at the expense of whatever else we would normally be doing). Thus, BW "metrics" reflect an overwhelming participation in Ossus, and it's been absolutely loved by everyone, and anyone saying otherwise is just a vocal minority like Kendra.

 

I should hope the logical pitfall is so glaring that even Musco can see it. By locking the gear behind Ossus, naturally players will go do Ossus, because it's the way to get the shiny. That doesn't mean they enjoy Ossus, just that Ossus is the only way to get the best shiny.

 

I would in fact encourage others to follow along and refuse to chase the most recent shiny, as any participation at all deems the content/idea/adding gear at random a success. Don't be a statistic for Musco and co to manipulate.

 

That said, I fully expect the shiny objects to be far too big a draw for enough people to ignore for this strategy to work to actually make a change. It seems patting yourselves on the back for giant numbers despite no change in actual skill is more important than making a point.

I think you make the mistake of believing that ever update is monitored the same. One updates success may be monitored more heavily to see if participation has improved with a "type" of content. The success of 5.10+ may actually be represented heavily by how many more people are participating not in Ossus content, but in HM or NIM content.