Vowrawn For "Canon" Sith Emperor!

[Ylliarus]

Wasn't it the Minister of Logistics who surrendered to Zakuul on behalf of the Empire? Assuming that's not a reference to Vowrawn, it sounds like someone who works in the same profession as him. Acina was only a Darth at the time of the Zakuul Invasion.

 

Charles Boyd confirmed that Darth Vowrawn was meant as the Minister of Logistics at the time. He was after all the head of the Sphere of Production and Logistics, but Charles Boyd confirmed that it was meant to be Darth Vowrawn. This thread gives a brief summary of what was said in the podcast during which Charles Boyd said those things:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=950700

 

And here is a working link (the one in the thread stopped working for some reason) to the podcast itself:

 

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/passionately-casual/e/55137918

 

And let me also quote a transcription of the specific bit:

 

Interviewer: Another person that has had a time line that jumps around or at least his titles jump around, and I'm not sure exactly what his titles were at specific times was Vowrawn. We know in the Sith Warrior Story he wa, correct me if I'm wrong about this, he was in charge of Production & Logistics. He was the council member for that. Then was he also the Minister of Logistics during...?

 

Charles: Because they said the Minister of Logistics...

 

Interviewer: Right

 

Charles: Honestly I think that was just n error on our part, it should have been "The Darth - The Lord of that Sphere" rather than the Minister if I'm looking back and recalling those specifics scenes correctly. Because we actually see Vowrawn - that was either a mistake either in the writing or a miscommunication of which character we were supposed to see in the moment. Vowrawn was definitely meant to be involved in that, and that was an idea we had behind the scenes for sure, and so I think there was maybe a slight change in that storyline that happened that didn't get updated in the text.

 

Interviewer: In Acina's empire, where does he fit?

 

Charles: He's a member of her reconstituted Dark Council. That's another thing that we'll be touching on in this update, hopefully this coming fall. We'll be getting some updated codex entries or extra information on how does the Empire actually work now, what is its structure, because it was clear that most if not all the Dark Council was wiped out at one point during the invasion.

 

So it's safe to say the Minister of Logistics and Darth Vowrawn were the same person back then

 

Ugh no I hate this idea. I hate having my choices be erased, if someone wants to pretend a certain thing for their roleplay then let them pretend it but leave everyone else's game alone. Just because you can't make up your mind on what you want to roleplay doesn't mean that people who sided with Acina should have her randomly die anyway and people who sided with Jace should have him randomly die anyway. That kind of thing was something people absolutely hated about Telltale's games.

 

I hate having a firm canon for a choice and customization based game. It's what brought us generic straight white emo male with dark hair and stubble #3,497 as "Revan" and erased all of the characters people actually played in KotOR unless they played that exact type of person. I have to get slapped in the face with that annoying impostor over and over for the sake of canon. There are certain large overarching story elements that should be kept but there is no reason to erase our choices. If you want to roleplay that both characters died then do so but leave the rest of us out of it.

 

It's not only about the RP community, it's about a disruptive divergence in story continuity that's happening right now. It affects many more players than merely the RP community as I see a lot of posts in here are along the same lines of wanting uniformity in story. Besides, Bioware can't keep up with the current divergence in story continuity, the Iokath choice will be undone by 6.0 anyway.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Ylliarus]

It is not the Devs job to moderate and plan your RP guild. It is your RP guilds job to moderate your RP guild.

 

For someone who claims to RP a lot you sure don't seem to know anything involving DMs / RP event's organizer's job. Or maybe your community doesn't have DMs/organizers and you are having to constantly battle over the setting of your RP, in which case I can understand and sympathize with your acclaimed chaos... And feel very happy for not being a part of it, lol.

 

That is how most RPs with bioware type games go. There is a set timeline/choice preset for people to draw reference from for the session, provided by DM/organizer.

 

Dude... Where did I say I had a guild? I am merely voicing the thoughts expressed within the DMRP community I am part of. I am not a head of anything, merely the only person who bothers coming to these forums because the rest prefers to stay clear of the posters here. Also, you keep misunderstanding me, the DMRP Community is not a guild, it's an RP hub where dozens of guilds interact with one another. I am not a moderator of that specific community, I am only a moderator of the Spheres of Influence Community Discord which is a part of the DMRP Community. Nowhere did I say I am an event organizer or DM. I merely voice the thoughts I've seen and heard in chats of the roleplayers part of the DMRP community.

[Ylliarus]

Also, there's a bit of a hole in your arguement. How have any of your fellow rp-ers been able progress past KOTFE/KOTET at all with all of the half-deaths sprinkled throughout the expansions? For many, some characters are dead and for others, they are not. I think it's a little unfair to get rid of those characters entirely just because some people got a little too trigger-happy.

 

Let me quote myself because I've had to explain this too often already:

 

The RP community has been frequently misunderstood and this is yet another one of these cases. Yes, there are RP groups that play in any timeline but they're not part of the "mainstream" Darth Malgus RP community for example. Our community follows the timeline of the game, when the timeskip happened, we followed suit in our stories. There are groups of roleplayers who play like you describe, but that's not the mainstream RP community. Allow me to invite you to have a look at the Darth Malgus RP Enjin forums and perhaps that will shed some clarity on how the RP we perform occurs:

 

https://malgus-rp.enjin.com/

 

The guilds and RP'ers part of this community take the current SWTOR story as the setting they play in and we move along with the events. We do not play as Lord Kallig, Lord Wrath or Cipher Nine, we create our own original characters with their own unique backstories we created based on the lore of the setting and time of the game. Subsequently we, indeed within the D&D format, create our own original events and stories with one another (in guilds or between players alone) that are not part of the main SWTOR story but heavily influenced by it. This is perfectly valid way to play the game [sNIP]

 

We don't roleplay within the class stories or the stories Bioware gave us through the game itself, we create characters, plots, events outside of the SWTOR stories. We create our own original characters, plots and events that are set within the lore of SWTOR but are not part of the main narratives of the classes, the expansions or the Outlander story. We don't RP as Lord Nox, the Bar'senthor, the Outlander, no, it's actually a big no-no to play an existing character within the lore in the "mainstream" RP community. We instead play a self-created random Sith Lord in the Empire, or a self-created random politician in the Republic. There are dozens of guilds each catering to a different niche, you have Sith nobility RP, Alderaan nobility RP, you have military RP, Sith powerbase RP, Jedi enclaves RP, you name it. But we are tightly bound to the lore the main story of SWTOR shapes and creates as we heavily rely on it to create our stories and events, characters even.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Ylliarus]

My only issue is when certain players get in the mindset that they specifically are owed something by the creators, simply because they've payed for the game. It's a childish mentality that only helps to enforce the 'entitled gamer' stereotype.

 

I do not believe the creators or developers own anyone anything. But they create the stories and game for us, they don't do it for themselves but they do it so that we, Star Wars fans, can enjoy them.

 

Specifically, I am now, in this thread, voicing the thoughts I saw expressed within the Darth Malgus RP community. We don't believe we are entitled to anything, but roleplayers have been constantly overlooked throughout the years. This is simply letting our voices and opinions be heard and since roleplayers form a solid chunk of the SWTOR playerbase, surely we have the right to voice our concerns and feelings in the hopes to change something? PVE'ers and PvP'ers do it all the time.

[fishpeople]

So it's safe to say the Minister of Logistics and Darth Vowrawn were the same person back then

 

Then despite my personal opinion on Vowrawn my answer is no. My vote is for Acina.

 

Assuming Vowrawn was stilll working as the man in charge of logistics 5 years on? Empress Acina wanted a change in "her" sith empire. It is more than likely that Vowrawn may have taken a different role by Acina's request up on rebuilding her advisory board years earlier.

 

It was never stated that Acina was the only sith remaining or that Vowrawn fled like the rest of the council when the zakuulans came screaming in.

 

The time of the surrender was one year after the player went missing? According to Lana in one of the early kotfe chapters. She also says something about the only member of the dark council to remain active was Acina. So for now I'm going to assume Vowrawn's surrender to the Eternal Empire lost him a lot of respect in the Empire.

Edited November 6, 2018 by fishpeople

[Ylliarus]

The time of the surrender was one year after the player went missing? According to Lana in one of the early kotfe chapters. She also says something about the only member of the dark council to remain active was Acina. So for now I'm going to assume Vowrawn's surrender to the Eternal Empire lost him a lot of respect in the Empire.

 

Well, as Charles Boyd said in the podcast I linked somewhere above, it was an error or miscommunication on part of the writing team. As Charles Boyd said, Darth Vowrawn remained on Acina's newly formed Dark Council, so basically nothing has changed for him personally. He didn't gain any more power sure, but I see no reason why he'd lose respect within the Empire. Especially if seemingly he is second in line to the Imperial throne judging from how he becomes Sith Emperor if Acina dies.

[Kiesu]

Dude... Where did I say I had a guild? I am merely voicing the thoughts expressed within the DMRP community I am part of. I am not a head of anything, merely the only person who bothers coming to these forums because the rest prefers to stay clear of the posters here. Also, you keep misunderstanding me, the DMRP Community is not a guild, it's an RP hub where dozens of guilds interact with one another. I am not a moderator of that specific community, I am only a moderator of the Spheres of Influence Community Discord which is a part of the DMRP Community. Nowhere did I say I am an event organizer or DM. I merely voice the thoughts I've seen and heard in chats of the roleplayers part of the DMRP community.

Since you demand to streamline a certain aspect of the game, but apparently dont organize or DM anything, and only rely hear-say, I'm not sure why you think you are in a very good position to be making such demands from devs or other players who might want to keep their multichoises of emperors.

I don't want devs to alter every story character to be romance-able because romance fans want to bang everything that moves. I don't want devs to alter story decisions because RPrs want to throw away characters that are inconvenient for their inflexible RPs. I don't want devs turning all future solocontent to multiplayer format because groupers want more multiplayer content (like they made all solo-content chapters to anti-group content because solo players wanted that, ffs). In every case where BW have tried to cater to just one group of players that decision bit them in the bum.

 

Anyway,

since you're speaking for the entire DM RP community here apparently, I was giving you advice to rely forward for that entire community in that previous post, since it seems to be lacking in some core-aspects of functional RP.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Kiesu

[Celise]

The time of the surrender was one year after the player went missing? According to Lana in one of the early kotfe chapters. She also says something about the only member of the dark council to remain active was Acina. So for now I'm going to assume Vowrawn's surrender to the Eternal Empire lost him a lot of respect in the Empire.

 

The Republic and Empire's assets were destroyed and their homeworlds blockaded. Thats about it yes.

 

And based on what i know of game canon after FE, it was a fairly obvious oversight regarding Vowrawn

 

Well, as Charles Boyd said in the podcast I linked somewhere above, it was an error or miscommunication on part of the writing team. As Charles Boyd said, Darth Vowrawn remained on Acina's newly formed Dark Council, so basically nothing has changed for him personally. He didn't gain any more power sure, but I see no reason why he'd lose respect within the Empire. Especially if seemingly he is second in line to the Imperial throne judging from how he becomes Sith Emperor if Acina dies.

 

If Vowrawn was there being forced to kneel as Acina's representative, then it is clear Vowrawn didn't betray the Empire for his own life. If he had? Acina and everyone in the empire would of had him killed for not being there to protect the Empire from their enemies.

 

Lana said what she said but she isn't all knowing and all seeing like Sauron's eye in the sky.

The way she said it implies she knows enough of the situation but clearly didn't have the complete picture of every event, it would be hard to remember everything that ran across her desk in the intelligence department before leaving the Empire behind, especially after 4 years.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Celise

[Nefla]

It's not only about the RP community, it's about a disruptive divergence in story continuity that's happening right now. It affects many more players than merely the RP community as I see a lot of posts in here are along the same lines of wanting uniformity in story. Besides, Bioware can't keep up with the current divergence in story continuity, the Iokath choice will be undone by 6.0 anyway.

I have never seen anyone other than RPers complaining that they WANT one linear set story with no choices. Everyone else wants the opposite, they want their choices to matter, they want diverging stories, and they don't want other people's choice to affect their game (ex: companions who have a kill choice becoming silent, non interactive, and disappearing from the story for people who chose to keep them alive so as not to "punish" those who chose to kill them by having content they can't access due to their choice). Everyone else wants BioWare to do better with their storytelling, not worse and stripping out all divergence and choice and forcing every character into a one size fits all mold just because you guys can't make up your mind about your RP and need BioWare to make up your mind for you is definitely worse.

[IoNonSoEVero]

We don't roleplay within the class stories or the stories Bioware gave us through the game itself, we create characters, plots, events outside of the SWTOR stories. We create our own original characters, plots and events that are set within the lore of SWTOR but are not part of the main narratives of the classes, the expansions or the Outlander story. We don't RP as Lord Nox, the Bar'senthor, the Outlander, no, it's actually a big no-no to play an existing character within the lore in the "mainstream" RP community. We instead play a self-created random Sith Lord in the Empire, or a self-created random politician in the Republic. There are dozens of guilds each catering to a different niche, you have Sith nobility RP, Alderaan nobility RP, you have military RP, Sith powerbase RP, Jedi enclaves RP, you name it. But we are tightly bound to the lore the main story of SWTOR shapes and creates as we heavily rely on it to create our stories and events, characters even.

 

If you're not even RPing characters that exist in the main story, then the divergence in Emperors/Empresses shouldn't be an issue for you at all. You're not playing characters that exist in Bioware's story. So why should that story be changed for everyone, to cater to your RP? Decide amongst yourselves who the Emperor/Empress is.

 

But what you're trying to do is get the devs to choose the Emperor *you* want and remove that choice for everyone else, in the name of something you choose to do on your own time, and that's not okay.

Edited November 6, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[BlastBoomArt]

Let me quote myself because I've had to explain this too often already:

-snip

 

There was really no need to quote yourself, I read all of your previous posts. Besides, I RP too and I also make up my own characters seperate from the 8 class stories. You know what I do when something undetermined by the lore pops up? I converse with whoever I'm rp-ing with and we decide together which diverging path is true. We use our imaginations. As ya do.

 

Aside from that and ignoring all of the vanilla companions, I wonder how you or any of the other rp-ers you're talking about can get past the fate of Arcann, the Eternal Emperor? Since again, for some people he's dead. And some he's not.

-

[casirabit]

I have never seen anyone other than RPers complaining that they WANT one linear set story with no choices. Everyone else wants the opposite, they want their choices to matter, they want diverging stories, and they don't want other people's choice to affect their game (ex: companions who have a kill choice becoming silent, non interactive, and disappearing from the story for people who chose to keep them alive so as not to "punish" those who chose to kill them by having content they can't access due to their choice). Everyone else wants BioWare to do better with their storytelling, not worse and stripping out all divergence and choice and forcing every character into a one size fits all mold just because you guys can't make up your mind about your RP and need BioWare to make up your mind for you is definitely worse.

 

The problem with this is the people that chose the Republic side saw Acina die and for them to use her as the Empress doesn't make sense in the story. Same with Malcom. Companions are a bit different than main characters in a story. How can they honestly use characters that one side has seen die. That is the problem with Acina and Malcom. I frankly don't care who they use, Malora, some other sith, but Acina is not a good choice as my Republic characters and my characters that sided with the Republic saw her die. The same with my Empire characters that didn't side with the Republic they watched Malcom died. It makes no sense story wise.

[kodrac]

But what you're trying to do is get the devs to choose the Emperor *you* want and remove that choice for everyone else, in the name of something you choose to do on your own time, and that's not okay.

 

I don't have any real fuss over who is Emperor in the new story line, as long as it makes sense. But I don't have any issue with someone campaigning for their favorite, also as long as it makes sense. We should all be able to do that.

Edited November 6, 2018 by kodrac

[SiegePro]

At this point I’d almost rather see a whole new slate of government/military leaders for BOTH sides.

 

Say Valky had one last failsafe that goes off because he was no longer around to reset the timer and whatever it is just blows the Senate, Chancellor, Republic Command, Jedi Council, Dark Council, Sith Intelligence and Imperial Military Command hierarchy off the map.

 

Now all the newly elected replacement Senators are headed to Coruscant to elect a new Chancellor and the field generals and admirals of both sides have re-established a chain of command while the lower tier Darths have backstabbed their way into a new Dark Council with the most charismatic/powerful now the Emperor and both sides see the chaos in the other faction as the perfect time to strike if they can just get their house in order fast enough.

 

Basically, a fresh start for both factions in terms of NPCs for 6.0. Make it a two stage expansion (akin to Shadow of Revan’s Rishi and Yavin IV halves) where part one is organizing your faction and part two is launching the new war against the opposing faction. The first world would be a rebuild/new instance of the Capital worlds built like Iokath to handle faction swapping without having to see opposing faction PCs on the original faction capital worlds. The second would be a new cross-faction world where the Republic and Empire renew their war against each other.

 

But that’s just me.

[JennyFlynn]

The problem with this is the people that chose the Republic side saw Acina die and for them to use her as the Empress doesn't make sense in the story. Same with Malcom. Companions are a bit different than main characters in a story. How can they honestly use characters that one side has seen die. That is the problem with Acina and Malcom. I frankly don't care who they use, Malora, some other sith, but Acina is not a good choice as my Republic characters and my characters that sided with the Republic saw her die. The same with my Empire characters that didn't side with the Republic they watched Malcom died. It makes no sense story wise.

I'm a little confused, and no offense of course, but I'm not sure where the issue lies for you in that case? Your Republic siding characters who've seen Acina die won't be dealing with her, they're getting Vowrawn. So she'll remain dead for you if you made that choice thus making perfect sense in your personal play, per character. Or am I missing the meaning of your post? Unless you're talking about RP-story and how it wouldn't make sense for Republic RP'ers to have Acina alive in their RP?

 

I don't think anyone is asking to put Acina on the throne for everyone--merely to keep her there for the players who kept her alive via their Iokath choice. Others are asking to make her dead for everyone to make the whole "Who's the 'real' Emperor" situation simpler, and canceling out the deliberate choice players made to side with Acina and save her.

[casirabit]

I'm a little confused, and no offense of course, but I'm not sure where the issue lies for you in that case? Your Republic siding characters who've seen Acina die won't be dealing with her, they're getting Vowrawn. So she'll remain dead for you if you made that choice thus making perfect sense in your personal play, per character. Or am I missing the meaning of your post? Unless you're talking about RP-story and how it wouldn't make sense for Republic RP'ers to have Acina alive in their RP?

 

I don't think anyone is asking to put Acina on the throne for everyone--merely to keep her there for the players who kept her alive via their Iokath choice. Others are asking to make her dead for everyone to make the whole "Who's the 'real' Emperor" situation simpler, and canceling out the deliberate choice players made to side with Acina and save her.

 

Will that really be the case? From experience BW has never made two separate leaders" They have normally only had one for each side and that is where I have a problem with it. If they make Acina the leader of the sith and they do it for everyone, then it becomes a problem. If they make two separate stories then no but from past experience they have never had two separate leaders for one side.

 

As far as RP it doesn't matter, at least for our group, we never RP with the current leaders. We have our own story and never use the leaders from the game so as for as RP that doesn't really affect us.

Edited November 6, 2018 by casirabit

[JennyFlynn]

Will that really be the case? From experience BW has never made two separate leaders" They have normally only had one for each side and that is where I have a problem with it. If they make Acina the leader of the sith and they do it for everyone, then it becomes a problem. If they make two separate stories then no but from past experience they have never had two separate leaders for one side.

 

As far as RP it doesn't matter, at least for our group, we never RP with the current leaders. We have our own story and never use the leaders from the game so as for as RP that doesn't really affect us.

It will, yeah, and Charles just confirmed this once more via Twitter stating that, for the time being and during 5.10, the Empire will have two leaders depending on your Iokath choices. He won't say yet whether story development beyond 5.10 will settle the matter and bring the Empire back to just one leader for all.

 

Sorry, I totally thought it was public knowledge that those who let Acina die will have Vowrawn as their Emperor for now. That's what you get with the Twitter buzz and social media lol.

Edited November 6, 2018 by JennyFlynn

[casirabit]

It will, yeah, and Charles just confirmed this once more via Twitter stating that, for the time being and during 5.10, the Empire will have two leaders depending on your Iokath choices. He won't say yet whether story development beyond 5.10 will settle the matter and bring the Empire back to just one leader for all.

 

Sorry, I totally thought it was public knowledge that those who let Acina die will have Vowrawn as their Emperor for now. That's what you get with the Twitter buzz and social media lol.

 

Thanks. I haven't been on twitter much. I am back in school working on my bachelor's degree in Paralegal so in that case it doesn't matter to me lol

Edited November 6, 2018 by casirabit

[IoNonSoEVero]

I don't have any real fuss over who is Emperor in the new story line, as long as it makes sense. But I don't have any issue with someone campaigning for their favorite, also as long as it makes sense. We should all be able to do that.

 

I'm actually fine with either Acina or Vowrawn, and like them both. But the problem with campaigning for favorites for this is that it removes choice from other players. It's no different than asking for a companion to be killed off - it affects others.

 

Right now if one really wants Vowrawn as the Sith Emperor there are specific steps one can take in the game to reach that point, but those who prefer Acina (and don't want to side Republic) have that choice too.

[JennyFlynn]

Thanks. I haven't been on twitter much. I am back in school working on my bachelor's degree in Paralegal so in that case it doesn't matter to me lol

Haha. I couldn't even remember whether I heard it on Twitter, in a Stream, or via other ways. Sometimes the influx of information is a bit too widespread. And hey, good luck with your bachelor's!

[MandFlurry]

At this point I’d almost rather see a whole new slate of government/military leaders for BOTH sides.

 

Say Valky had one last failsafe that goes off because he was no longer around to reset the timer and whatever it is just blows the Senate, Chancellor, Republic Command, Jedi Council, Dark Council, Sith Intelligence and Imperial Military Command hierarchy off the map.

 

Now all the newly elected replacement Senators are headed to Coruscant to elect a new Chancellor and the field generals and admirals of both sides have re-established a chain of command while the lower tier Darths have backstabbed their way into a new Dark Council with the most charismatic/powerful now the Emperor and both sides see the chaos in the other faction as the perfect time to strike if they can just get their house in order fast enough.

 

Basically, a fresh start for both factions in terms of NPCs for 6.0. Make it a two stage expansion (akin to Shadow of Revan’s Rishi and Yavin IV halves) where part one is organizing your faction and part two is launching the new war against the opposing faction. The first world would be a rebuild/new instance of the Capital worlds built like Iokath to handle faction swapping without having to see opposing faction PCs on the original faction capital worlds. The second would be a new cross-faction world where the Republic and Empire renew their war against each other.

 

But that’s just me.

 

Oh Hell ya, a fail safe blowing up the Senate and Dark Council. Now that would be the ultimate, and would show how smart and thorough a real person of power is, and just what lengths they would go to. I would buy that, lol.

 

God, i hate the Republic and Sith Empire lol.

[Eshvara]

B b b but Malgus?

[fishpeople]

B b b but Malgus?

 

He's dead. He's also a traitor.

[Eshvara]

He's dead. He's also a traitor.

If he's a traitor, we are too. I want him to come back and say, I TOLD YOU SO, THE EMPEROR IS 'SITH" (Some letter rearranging required)

Edited November 7, 2018 by Eshvara

[fishpeople]

If he's a traitor, we are too. I want him to come back and say, I TOLD YOU SO, THE EMPEROR IS 'SITH" (Some letter rearranging required)

 

Not sure how he can come back after we impaled him on that space station which then exploded into tiny pieces. Maybe if Acina is good at jigsaws she may have found a way to clone him? Though if she can do that, I'm not sure why she would pick Malgus.