Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

[LanceUpercutt]

I've played Commando DPS and Mercenary DPS in warzones and there is a huge difference, the Commando is my main, he was higher level and really well equipped, but was awful in PvP. The Mercenary, who I haven't even bothered to get used to the skills of too much and isn't that well equipped, can hold his own very well in PvP.

 

More attacks before Ammo runs out

 

More damage dealt also I've noticed

 

Much faster fire rate.

 

Able to take more damage.

 

Thats from experience playing as both.

 

odd i had the exact opposite experience from playing both

[Jugglenaut]

odd i had the exact opposite experience from playing both

 

Which skill trees did you use?

[archinoss]

I would like to add as a new player that when i tried sith inc and jedi cons that was the first thing i saw: project animation was crap near the instant shock.

 

was lvling and with low latency was able in most cases do knock backs and instant shock after when as a jedi i could not.

 

in PVP i had some rocks stuck in the air (vanish...) or "out of range/ line of site" messages after the stone was in mid air....

 

still not lvl 50 but already thinking of leaving my guild mates and reroll a sith.

 

not all pipl care about high end gaming like dudes in my guild and when u want to be balance and feel good about your hard working lvling this unbalance makes u feel like it was all for nothing and u should have gone imp instead.

 

i have good feeling this thread is useless for us cuz it's not going to be fixed anytime soon (year or more...)

 

i saw that rated WZ will start soon and when it does bioware is going to get **** loads of tickets and posts... maybe then it will be fixed.

 

thank u guys for making this post and sharing things u found.. it will maybe do us good someday

[Kellindell]

odd i had the exact opposite experience from playing both

 

Look at the stuff he said, like more ammo. How can you say your experience is the opposite? We have shown proof that Mercs indeed have more resource, their attacks are better etc...

 

I think what you mean is, other subjective factors went into you having an opposite experience like a tank was guarding you, or someone else was doing something, or the opposing team was worse (which would explain your opposite experience).

 

Showing no evidence, no video and not spitting out more then a single sentence offers no insight into your "opposite experience". So you either let confound variables come into your assessment without recognizing them, or you are just trying to detract from the points so your beloved faction doesnt get brought into line with the republic.

[Kellindell]

WoW started out with different skills and classes on each side and realized it didnt work when your doing ranked matches. Now if you notice you can be a paladin on Horde and a Shaman on Alliance.

 

Why SWTOR didnt learn from Blizzards mistakes ill never know.

 

Rookie mistake now that a billion dollar company has paved the way for them essentially.

 

What really astounds me is, they keep saying the key to success in an MMO is copying WoW. What kills me is, the copy WoW from 4 years ago, and dont implement any of the changes WoW made after learning from their own mistakes.

 

Like how to properly population cap Wintergrasp/Illum.

 

If you are going to copy them, copy the learning process as well or a bunch of people are just going to jump ship to the game that is exactly the same but with more polish. Or make your own game, which is what people wanted all along.

[Dhagaz]

Actually it isn't sith specific, it's the turret on the snowy side that gives the extra tick, and it's just that. One tick. If the republic gets the turret then they also get the extra tick.

 

 

This is completely subjective, the sith get purple pvp sabers republic gets cyan. Personally I think cyan looks better but you can't call it factional imbalance just because you like purple more than cyan.

 

Again, it's subjective. I liked my smuggler story line a whole lot more than my sith inquisitor storyline.

 

Again, subjective, I think the empire's fleet is way too flashy, and gets annoying after a few days hanging around in there. Not to mention fountain the republic gets is very nice looking.

 

I play a smuggler, the root is quite negligible.

 

This doesn't matter at all, they both detonate on any damage, and go off regardless of whether the animation has finished. The animation makes absolutely no difference.

 

This is actually one of the main reasons I chose a smuggler, The animation does delay, but it has no effect on the global cooldown. This lets you chain a 3k back blast with a 2.5k sucker punch for 5.5k bursts that can't be healed inbetween, it's actually a major advantage.

 

Admittedly can be annoying, but hardly that big of a deal.

 

 

I No, it doesn't It definitely gives the consular the advantage. Burst damage always tops steady damage, this is why back blast is such an advantage, as a healer and a dps alike it is much much harder to heal through burst. And project will go through line of sight if it's casted before the character is around a corner.

 

No, it wouldn't have. I've shocked people vanishing before and it's never pulled them out, I don't understand where you got that idea.

 

I'm pretty sure this doesn't constitute a "big deal"

 

And just to add, the sith knockback, overload takes longer to perform than the consular's version, which is actually a really big deal especially in huttball where the extra quarter of a second is the difference between being knocked into the pit or staying on the catwalk.

 

Just pointed out what's wrong with your post, I don't play a merc or sent so I can't comment on the other stuff, but seeing as how you're intentionally making this seem far more one sided than it actually is and distorting or just plain leaving out important information makes me question how accurate that is as well.

 

Best thing I've read in this thread so far.

[Lacressian]

Back on the first page.

[Aerevan]

I fully agree with the OP. Just bumpin' it up.

[Aerevan]

 

Etc, Etc. From what I can tell the Republic attracted all of the whining kids and the Empire the people who enjoy their (admittedly better) story lines and the people are serious about PvP and raiding.

 

Big words. Why don't you make a YouTube clip with the BH's Death from Above ability versus the Troopers Mortar Round. I guarantee you the latter is completely useless in PvP because of the hefty delay. Unlike you, this 'whining kid' (generalisations are soooo 1939) has actually presented some proof. Back your big words up, or back off. Edited February 6, 2012 by Aerevan

[Vorman]

Thank you.

 

The thing about this is, everyone keeps saying "It will get fixed eventually". Well thats what everyone said about the dismount tower and horde racials in wow.

 

My personal experience spread across 4 PvP servers the entire length of WoW was that people who were avid pvpers would get fed up eventually and faction reroll or change when it became an option.

 

I saw entire guilds go horde from alliance because they were fed up.

 

Alliance lost great arena teams because people wanted the silence and stun horde got. Seriously, AoE silence VS crappy HoT on a cooldown?

 

Right now, when you look at the numbers people are reporting about faction imbalance with numbers, its astounding. I dont know how true the statistics are, but if you couple it with the complaints and self reports, it seems pretty bad.

 

If Bioware doesnt fix this stuff fast, they will end up with a game where PvP is so lopsided it will become non existent.

 

Rolling Sith will be a good fix for a little while, and it will seem fun when you are rofl stomping people in lopsided BGs, but how fun will it be when the ques stop, or when open world becomes a ghost town because people wont/dont play republic.

 

On my server at least 50% of the time Republic is outnumbered in WZ's and the more Reps queu up and get murdered in WZs, the more they will think "Maybe I should just reroll sith before I level so high I wont want to anymore."

 

FYI they changed all the racials and now the Alliance have the better PVP racials, and have for some time now. :-)

 

Prior to finding this thread and other related threads and posts, my 1st notice of this problem was from playing an Inquisitor-Sorc and then a Consular-Sage. Not only the time delay(Project\Shock) in damage in PVP but the stun delay in PVE as well!

 

Now not knowing about these imbalances beings I nor any of my friends were in beta, we decided to roll Republic just cause one of our good friends wanted to run around and "kick people in the nuts"! lol. The rest of us wanted to go Empire seeings how it was cooler looking than Republic. But beings I saw that these where (supposed to be)mirror classes, I then really didn't care which side we chose.

 

So now here we are with the Republic @ lvl 50 and avoiding WZ's and Ilum due to being grossly outnumbered and out geared. If you think I regret rolling Republic then you would be correct! If Bioware doesn't fix this soon, I will also regret buying this game and find another to play or go back to my other previously played MMO's (Aion, WoW to name a few).

[Niconogood]

I would like to add as a new player that when i tried sith inc and jedi cons that was the first thing i saw: project animation was crap near the instant shock.

 

was lvling and with low latency was able in most cases do knock backs and instant shock after when as a jedi i could not.

 

in PVP i had some rocks stuck in the air (vanish...) or "out of range/ line of site" messages after the stone was in mid air....

 

still not lvl 50 but already thinking of leaving my guild mates and reroll a sith.

 

not all pipl care about high end gaming like dudes in my guild and when u want to be balance and feel good about your hard working lvling this unbalance makes u feel like it was all for nothing and u should have gone imp instead.

 

i have good feeling this thread is useless for us cuz it's not going to be fixed anytime soon (year or more...)

 

i saw that rated WZ will start soon and when it does bioware is going to get **** loads of tickets and posts... maybe then it will be fixed.

 

thank u guys for making this post and sharing things u found.. it will maybe do us good someday

 

So jedis suck and siths rule. Working as intended. Nothing to see here.

 

Same of course applies to Troopers and BHs and Smugglers vs Agents.

 

If this wasnt an intentional part of the game any developers with interest in making their game a balanced gaming experience would have fixed it by now. Thus, cool imps are supposed to have an edge over sissy republics.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Niconogood

[Vorman]

Another thing I wanted to say.... Bioware has said and I quote "We want this to be as close to ,if not perfect, @ launch as possible cause you only get 1 launch".

 

Well $200million (and how many previous MMO's from other companies) later, this is what they produce? I'm not impressed! Another poster (which I can't find ATM) said along the lines of, "If you're going to mirror another MMO, mirror the lessons from the mistakes too and don't let it happen!".

 

Well all in all, I just hope they fix this soon and start making this a fun and fair game so that people will come back and continue to play SWTOR!

 

P.S. This is how I found this thread! Please watch and enjoy!

 

 

[Zlashie]

And people wonder why the Empire outnumber the republic on most servers

[greviouz]

And people wonder why the Empire outnumber the republic on most servers

 

truer words havent been said

[emeraldon]

Should also be noted that the PURPLE crystal is not obtainable for Republic yet.

 

 

Yes, the MAGENTA is, but not purple.

 

What's even more upsetting is the fact that the only person known to have the Purple crystal was a Jedi. U_U

Edited February 6, 2012 by emeraldon

[alement]

Wow. great research and post. Thanks

[Slashtwo]

Not to mention Full Auto, which is complete crap compared to the Bounty Hunter version. Its almost like Bioware-Mythic intended us to roll Empire.

 

Actually our unload is bugged 20% of the time, where it dosen't cast at all. Not only does it not cast but it actually starts to channel unload with no damage being done locking us out of doing other things for about 1 second.

[Red-Patriot]

I agree completely with the trooper issues and I'm disappointed by the fact they are ignoring the 64+ page thread in the trooper fourms about it. There are also problems with stockstrike. And the fact that the term "green beam" only applies to commando is bad in and of itself it's basically a big green flashing light pointing right at the enemy healer.

The rest I'm not qualified to comment on because I haven't played them but I trust they are accurate considering the 'mirror discrepences' if that's what we can call them.

 

5+ hotfixes later and your commando fix is a problem with loading your ship on correlia is this a joke?

Edited February 6, 2012 by Red-Patriot

[Relith]

Actually our unload is bugged 20% of the time, where it dosen't cast at all. Not only does it not cast but it actually starts to channel unload with no damage being done locking us out of doing other things for about 1 second.

 

Thats true. I kind of figured the trooper mirror ability would be the same, but I don't even know.

 

Another thing to note on sorc vs sage is how highly visible everything the sorc does. Draws great attention compared to how subtle the sage spells are. I wanted to go republic when the game came out, still do, but my guild chose empire. Some of the supposed disadvantages listed, are in actuality, advantageous.

[PlagaNerezza]

I agree completely with the trooper issues and I'm disappointed by the fact they are ignoring the 64+ page thread in the trooper fourms about it. There are also problems with stockstrike. And the fact that the term "green beam" only applies to commando is bad in and of itself it's basically a big green flashing light pointing right at the enemy healer.

The rest I'm not qualified to comment on because I haven't played them but I trust they are accurate considering the 'mirror discrepences' if that's what we can call them.

 

5+ hotfixes later and your commando fix is a problem with loading your ship on correlia is this a joke?

 

I would add that snipers/gunslingers are not mirrors. Snipers 1 gun + vibroknife.

 

Gunslinger 2 guns.

 

If you do the math the gunslinger does less dps then a sniper. I have to carry and mod 2 weapons to be equal. Meaning more bags, valor, accomadation.

 

I can point you to the gunslinger forum if you want the math on why gunslinger is inferior to sniper.

[savionen]

I would add that snipers/gunslingers are not mirrors. Snipers 1 gun + vibroknife.

 

Gunslinger 2 guns.

 

If you do the math the gunslinger does less dps then a sniper. I have to carry and mod 2 weapons to be equal. Meaning more bags, valor, accomadation.

 

I can point you to the gunslinger forum if you want the math on why gunslinger is inferior to sniper.

 

Does that mean that Mercenaries also have slightly less DPS than Commandos? Or is it that Sniper rifles just get better stats than pistols?

[DaveyboyW]

Actually our unload is bugged 20% of the time, where it dosen't cast at all. Not only does it not cast but it actually starts to channel unload with no damage being done locking us out of doing other things for about 1 second.

 

Yeah, I notice this with full auto on my trooper too. I couldn't give you any maths as to how often, but it certainly does happen.

[Fdzzaigl]

Actually our unload is bugged 20% of the time, where it dosen't cast at all. Not only does it not cast but it actually starts to channel unload with no damage being done locking us out of doing other things for about 1 second.

 

Exactly the same on Trooper, full auto often keeps casting even though no damage is dealt.

Not sure what causes this, it often seems to happen after dodging an attack, suffering a knockdown, or the target just plain going out of LoS.

 

What people are comparing is the damage lost when you get hit while casting FA vs Unload.

[greviouz]

Actually our unload is bugged 20% of the time, where it dosen't cast at all. Not only does it not cast but it actually starts to channel unload with no damage being done locking us out of doing other things for about 1 second.

 

this is not a Bounty hunter only problem this bug affect all classes that has a channel skill

heck on my sage i have even gotten the bug doing the heal channel ability

[Jarexx]

Still no word from BW? How can every mirror imbalance favor the empire and not be intentional? The DEVs play empire so they favor them, its sickening.