Why is there no kill option for Lana?

[bluehufsa]

I wouldn't fault someone for disliking Lana, unless it's for obvious homophobic reasons .

 

Wanna know why i dislike Lana so much? Because she acts like a babysitter, like the mandatory advisory we didn't asked for. Is like she has to "teach" us what to do, like we won our titles at pazaak or something. Let's see:

 

- Sith Inquisitor/ Warrior won their Darth titles by going through some serious trials ( corrupting Jedi padawans, learning rituals, absorbing ghosts, defeating big league guys like Thanaton & Baras)

- Jedi Consular - sacrificing their strength, learning rituals, fighting ancient Sith like Morrhage , healing corrupted Jedi,

saving lives

- Bounty Hunter : some nobody from Hutta actually winning The Great Hunt, doing what no one else could do ( defeat Jicoln Cadera) and Master Arrogant Dude with a whinny padawan on Aurora.

 

Then comes this "lord" of the Sith , inferior to our characters in any single way and gives orders . Sorry, but that's way too much, as a Darth i won't take orders from an inferior, as a Jedi Master i don't listen to a Sith and as a BH, Mandalorian or not, i couldn't care less about what she has to say.

[Vengola]

I like Lana but would like to have to option of killing her.

With 25 characters I kinda feel she is the town's bicycle, everybody's girlfriend.

[JakRoanin]

Wanna know why i dislike Lana so much? Because she acts like a babysitter, like the mandatory advisory we didn't asked for. Is like she has to "teach" us what to do, like we won our titles at pazaak or something. Let's see:

 

- Sith Inquisitor/ Warrior won their Darth titles by going through some serious trials ( corrupting Jedi padawans, learning rituals, absorbing ghosts, defeating big league guys like Thanaton & Baras)

- Jedi Consular - sacrificing their strength, learning rituals, fighting ancient Sith like Morrhage , healing corrupted Jedi,

saving lives

- Bounty Hunter : some nobody from Hutta actually winning The Great Hunt, doing what no one else could do ( defeat Jicoln Cadera) and Master Arrogant Dude with a whinny padawan on Aurora.

 

Then comes this "lord" of the Sith , inferior to our characters in any single way and gives orders . Sorry, but that's way too much, as a Darth i won't take orders from an inferior, as a Jedi Master i don't listen to a Sith and as a BH, Mandalorian or not, i couldn't care less about what she has to say.

 

THIS! It has nothing to do with her romance options!

[Dracofish]

Wanna know why i dislike Lana so much? Because she acts like a babysitter, like the mandatory advisory we didn't asked for. Is like she has to "teach" us what to do, like we won our titles at pazaak or something. Let's see:

 

- Sith Inquisitor/ Warrior won their Darth titles by going through some serious trials ( corrupting Jedi padawans, learning rituals, absorbing ghosts, defeating big league guys like Thanaton & Baras)

- Jedi Consular - sacrificing their strength, learning rituals, fighting ancient Sith like Morrhage , healing corrupted Jedi,

saving lives

- Bounty Hunter : some nobody from Hutta actually winning The Great Hunt, doing what no one else could do ( defeat Jicoln Cadera) and Master Arrogant Dude with a whinny padawan on Aurora.

 

Then comes this "lord" of the Sith , inferior to our characters in any single way and gives orders . Sorry, but that's way too much, as a Darth i won't take orders from an inferior, as a Jedi Master i don't listen to a Sith and as a BH, Mandalorian or not, i couldn't care less about what she has to say.

 

Believe me, I am tired of having her constantly forced down my throat as well...but that's not Lana's fault. That's the fault of the writers. And it will be even worse going forward because everybody else can be dead.

 

From a Sith perspective, she does come from a position of authority. For one, she was the point of contact at the start of Shadow of Revan...Darth Arkous' assistant. Later, she becomes the Minister of Sith Intelligence. So she's not just some nobody ankle-biting yipper dog. People could honestly say the same thing about Theron... (And I like Theron.)

Edited December 11, 2018 by Dracofish

[denis]

Wanna know why i dislike Lana so much? Because she acts like a babysitter, like the mandatory advisory we didn't asked for. Is like she has to "teach" us what to do, like we won our titles at pazaak or something. Let's see:

 

- Sith Inquisitor/ Warrior won their Darth titles by going through some serious trials ( corrupting Jedi padawans, learning rituals, absorbing ghosts, defeating big league guys like Thanaton & Baras)

- Jedi Consular - sacrificing their strength, learning rituals, fighting ancient Sith like Morrhage , healing corrupted Jedi,

saving lives

- Bounty Hunter : some nobody from Hutta actually winning The Great Hunt, doing what no one else could do ( defeat Jicoln Cadera) and Master Arrogant Dude with a whinny padawan on Aurora.

 

Then comes this "lord" of the Sith , inferior to our characters in any single way and gives orders . Sorry, but that's way too much, as a Darth i won't take orders from an inferior, as a Jedi Master i don't listen to a Sith and as a BH, Mandalorian or not, i couldn't care less about what she has to say.

 

And this is different from the class storylines... how, exactly? I'm currently replaying the sith inqisitor storyline and I just get Zash & Co telling me what to do. The SI just listens to other people, nods her head, and follows their plans to the letter (the rituals, the ghosts, the cult, etc...). Every plan, every mission, every action you do is suggested to you by characters that are supposedly your "minions"

[Estelindis]

Later, she becomes the Minister of Sith Intelligence.

Ah yes, Marr picking Lana as head of Intelligence over the Agent. As he says, it's Sith Intelligence. Doesn't matter if the Agent is much more experienced in this field than Lana, from his perspective we'll always be less than a Sith and must be controlled by the Sith. Quite an effective moment of writing. If it's infuriating, I think it's meant to be.

[Dracofish]

Ah yes, Marr picking Lana as head of Intelligence over the Agent. As he says, it's Sith Intelligence. Doesn't matter if the Agent is much more experienced in this field than Lana, from his perspective we'll always be less than a Sith and must be controlled by the Sith. Quite an effective moment of writing. If it's infuriating, I think it's meant to be.

 

Well, yes and no. That's kind of...no, is really how Imperial life was. Sith were at the top of the food chain. The Empire was governed by Sith. Everybody else came second. That's not the writers. That's the lore. Marr picking a non-force user as head of Sith Intelligence would have been anathema to how their society was ran...and he was considered forward-thinking for a Sith.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Dracofish

[Estelindis]

Well, yes and no. That's kind of...no, is really how Imperial life was. Sith were at the top of the food chain. The Empire was governed by Sith. Everybody else came second. That's not the writers. That's the lore.

That was actually my point. The Empire was that way, so it was appropriate to write such a moment. In spite of how far the Agent has come, they can still be put in their place.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Ah yes, Marr picking Lana as head of Intelligence over the Agent. As he says, it's Sith Intelligence. Doesn't matter if the Agent is much more experienced in this field than Lana, from his perspective we'll always be less than a Sith and must be controlled by the Sith. Quite an effective moment of writing. If it's infuriating, I think it's meant to be.

 

Even Lana realizes this isn't her forte, too. In the letter she sends to you, she mentions she didn't really feel she had an option to refuse Darth Marr's offer.

 

It's one reason I get so salty about people saying she's incompetent on Ziost. She's doing the best she can in a job she's got no experience in (Arkous was military, not Intelligence), up against an enemy that literally nobody has been able to defeat in 1000 years who can wipe out entire planets, with the Republic's Jedi and troops invading and the Dark Council doing nothing to help her (where is the military sphere, exactly? Oh right, Darth Marr says he's not sending anyone to help).

 

It was like sending a dentist into an operating room and expecting her to be able to do 10-hour neurosurgery. If anything I blame Marr for what happened with Sith Intelligence and for not doing anything to mitigate the chaos on Ziost, not Lana.

[Dracofish]

That was actually my point. The Empire was that way, so it was appropriate to write such a moment. In spite of how far the Agent has come, they can still be put in their place.

 

I guess I'm just not seeing how that reflects on Lana. She was the best Sith for the job. I don't think Marr made a mistake in that respect.

[Dracofish]

Even Lana realizes this isn't her forte, too. In the letter she sends to you, she mentions she didn't really feel she had an option to refuse Darth Marr's offer.

 

It's one reason I get so salty about people saying she's incompetent on Ziost. She's doing the best she can in a job she's got no experience in (Arkous was military, not Intelligence), up against an enemy that literally nobody has been able to defeat in 1000 years who can wipe out entire planets, with the Republic's Jedi and troops invading and the Dark Council doing nothing to help her (where is the military sphere, exactly? Oh right, Darth Marr says he's not sending anyone to help).

 

It was like sending a dentist into an operating room and expecting her to be able to do 10-hour neurosurgery. If anything I blame Marr for what happened with Sith Intelligence and for not doing anything to mitigate the chaos on Ziost, not Lana.

 

If anybody was incompetent on Ziost, it was Theron (no matter how much I love him) and even worse, Kovach. If he hadn't of been a traitorous double (triple) agent, Ziost might (might) have been avoided. It was the landing of Saresh and the Republic fleet that gave Vitiate all the bodies he needed.

[IoNonSoEVero]

If anybody was incompetent on Ziost, it was Theron (no matter how much I love him) and even worse, Kovach. If he hadn't of been a traitorous double (triple) agent, Ziost might (might) have been avoided. It was the landing of Saresh and the Republic fleet that gave Vitiate all the bodies he needed.

 

I agree with this completely. Theron's never called out for his part in the carnage on Ziost, and he, along with Kovach and Saresh, made things infinitely worse. I know people love to squawk about how Lana didn't find Kovach, but neither did Theron., and he was working against both of them.

[MikeCobalt]

Believe me, I am tired of having her constantly forced down my throat as well...but that's not Lana's fault. That's the fault of the writers.

 

From a Sith perspective, she does come from a position of authority. For one, she was the point of contact at the start of Shadow of Revan...Darth Arkous' assistant. Later, she becomes the Minister of Sith Intelligence. So she's not just some nobody ankle-biting yipper dog. People could honestly say the same thing about Theron... (And I like Theron.)

 

This I believe is the heart and reason for the issue, *Gross Overuse. Lana from way back in SOR was a very well liked character by almost everybody Republic and Imperial both. Due to a lack of finances and the singular scope of the story BioWare narrowed it all down to one neutral, grey, bland "One size fits all", generic and after all this time even a once well liked character has became something most nolonger want some even farther. Lana is *Bland because she has to "Blend in" with every player type Aggressive, Relaxed, Imperial, Republic, Romantic and Dispassionate she has to *Fit them all and yet the same *Blandness made her not fit any so well. The overuse and extent of the problem has grown to such a proportion Lana has gone from +9 > -12 and a "Not Happy" thread that just keeps growing.

[Estelindis]

I guess I'm just not seeing how that reflects on Lana. She was the best Sith for the job. I don't think Marr made a mistake in that respect.

I wasn't here commenting so much on Lana as on the power dynamic between the Agent and Lana / Sith generally. I know this thread is about Lana so that makes my comment a bit off-topic, but it's over 100 pages long and we've talked about lots of adjacent topics. (If we didn't, the thread probably wouldn't still be going. For all that I know it's not a nice thread from plenty of people's points of view, I think we have actually had some good discussions here.)

 

Anyway, Marr might have been right from his point of view, but that doesn't mean I think he was right that Intelligence ought to be run by the Sith (so the head of Intelligence "needs" to be the best Sith candidate). The Empire obviously is some kind of fascist magocracy, but that doesn't mean it should be (if we're talking about what's morally ideal rather than thematically interesting). I mean the Agent story really examines the place of non-force-sensitive Imperials in general. As an example of that sort of person, the Agent gains and loses power and freedom in various ways, and a lot of the time they're fighting uphill against the force of Sith arrogance. Lana being given this job over the Agent is emblematic of that and I think it's a powerful callback to the class story.

 

Even Lana realizes this isn't her forte, too. In the letter she sends to you, she mentions she didn't really feel she had an option to refuse Darth Marr's offer.

Absolutely. Some of my agents hold a grudge against her but that's them being emotional. At a rational level they have to know it was Marr's choice but they don't like it. My main agent doesn't hold it against Lana because she never expects better from Sith leadership.

 

It's one reason I get so salty about people saying she's incompetent on Ziost. She's doing the best she can in a job she's got no experience in (Arkous was military, not Intelligence), up against an enemy that literally nobody has been able to defeat in 1000 years who can wipe out entire planets, with the Republic's Jedi and troops invading and the Dark Council doing nothing to help her (where is the military sphere, exactly? Oh right, Darth Marr says he's not sending anyone to help).

 

It was like sending a dentist into an operating room and expecting her to be able to do 10-hour neurosurgery. If anything I blame Marr for what happened with Sith Intelligence and for not doing anything to mitigate the chaos on Ziost, not Lana.

Well, in fairness, even I as a Republic diehard would mainly have to blame Saresh for Ziost. Lana did try to work with us to stop Vitiate once it became clear what was going on, whereas Saresh just wouldn't listen. Any of my Imperial characters who blame Lana for Ziost do it cynically, in the hopes of advancing themselves by comparison to her. Those who don't blame her feel sorry for her having been put in an impossible position.

 

Regarding Marr's culpability, unfortunately I think it's just a writing side-effect of the PC "needing" to always be the one on the ground doing everything. Anytime we're ordered about by any character, including Lana, it's a better-or-worse-written iteration of this. Sometimes KotFE/ET actually succeeded in making us feel like Lana and Theron worked for us and were presenting us with plans they made on our behalf, which I think was nice.

 

As for the real culprit on Ziost: the weird thing is, even after Saresh's character was rather summarily thrown away in KotET, I still think there's a seed of good writing that just wasn't explored enough. It was rarely emphasised that her hatred of the Empire came from her experiences as a slave. I don't think that can justify her allowing the Emperor to destroy all life on the planet, but someone fighting mercilessly - almost blindly - against a force they consider fundamentally evil isn't that different from some of the ways we can play our own protagonists.

 

Anyway, since the update appears to be available now, I'm gonna go play that. Talk to you later.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Estelindis

[Suzsi]

I agree with this completely. Theron's never called out for his part in the carnage on Ziost, and he, along with Kovach and Saresh, made things infinitely worse. I know people love to squawk about how Lana didn't find Kovach, but neither did Theron., and he was working against both of them.

 

He kind of is actually. By Ziost Theron isn't really much liked by the republic on the whole - just a few contacts he has under his sleave and he is mostly in hiding. Plus our characters call him out whilst on Ziost. Most of them are working outside of their respective factions though at that point for the most part. Other then Kovach who is spying for Saresh.

 

There's a lot of infighting going on between departments (political fighting) in both factions also which would explain how Zakuul took over so easily.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Suzsi

[IoNonSoEVero]

He kind of is actually. By Ziost Theron isn't really much liked by the republic on the whole - just a few contacts he has under his sleave and he is mostly in hiding. Plus our characters call him out whilst on Ziost. Most of them are working outside of their respective factions though at that point for the most part. Other then Kovach who is spying for Saresh.

 

There's a lot of infighting going on between departments (political fighting) in both factions also which would explain how Zakuul took over so easily.

 

I meant among the fans. Ziost is often brought up as an example of why Lana is the devil but Theron's part in it all seems to get conveniently overlooked and excused.

 

Also, in the game Theron really doesn't own up to what he did himself. If your character tells Lana that she bungled Ziost (mine don't, but I've seen the videos), she eventually agrees with you. that she's not right for the job she has. Even if you don't tell her that, she keeps saying how she has to keep learning, and that even though she didn't really want to be part of the power structure, now that she's there, she has to do better.

 

If you are at all critical toward Theron after Ziost he rants about how he is "good at his job" and just made a mistake, calls your character sanctimonious, etc.

[Dracofish]

 

There's a lot of infighting going on between departments (political fighting) in both factions also which would explain how Zakuul took over so easily.

 

...which can all be traced back to it being part of Vitiate's greater plan. Everybody was his pawn...and they played their parts all too well. That was why, as soon as it was realized the war was a giant machination of the Emperor, my Sith Inquisitor is like *** PEEPS, SCHTAAAP IT....ALL YOU GUYS.

[Dracofish]

I meant among the fans. Ziost is often brought up as an example of why Lana is the devil but Theron's part in it all seems to get conveniently overlooked and excused.

 

Also, in the game Theron really doesn't own up to what he did himself. If your character tells Lana that she bungled Ziost (mine don't, but I've seen the videos), she eventually agrees with you. that she's not right for the job she has. Even if you don't tell her that, she keeps saying how she has to keep learning, and that even though she didn't really want to be part of the power structure, now that she's there, she has to do better.

 

If you are at all critical toward Theron after Ziost he rants about how he is "good at his job" and just made a mistake, calls your character sanctimonious, etc.

 

Coming from a Theron fan's perspective, I thought he was quite messed up over his flub on Ziost. You can hear it in his voice over the comm when you're doing the planetary exploration. Running as a Sith, he makes a particularly pointed comment about how the Sixth Line are only there because of him...ooh! I have the exact quote! -

 

"I know killing Jedi is kind of your thing. The Sixth Line, though – they’re here because of me. If you could find some way – any way at all – just...please, help them. Don’t...do the other thing.”

 

He sounds like he's pleading when he says this.

 

I never got any commentary from him that was ranty, and he certainly never called my character sanctimonious. I can't even imagine that word coming out of his mouth, lol. I mean, that's like a $19 word for him.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Dracofish

[Suzsi]

I meant among the fans. Ziost is often brought up as an example of why Lana is the devil but Theron's part in it all seems to get conveniently overlooked and excused.

 

Also, in the game Theron really doesn't own up to what he did himself. If your character tells Lana that she bungled Ziost (mine don't, but I've seen the videos), she eventually agrees with you. that she's not right for the job she has. Even if you don't tell her that, she keeps saying how she has to keep learning, and that even though she didn't really want to be part of the power structure, now that she's there, she has to do better.

 

If you are at all critical toward Theron after Ziost he rants about how he is "good at his job" and just made a mistake, calls your character sanctimonious, etc.

 

Well that is a clear difference between the characters now isn't it? Oddly enough characters are supposed to be different. Theron is more stubborn.

 

Theron does admit he should have gone to the PC first, but maybe that's only if you aren't a total *** to him. His reactions are very dependent on your reactions to him. He is more likely to admit mistakes if your character doesn't go at him all guns firing(then he gets all defensive). I love the differences between characters it's part of what makes the game for me.

[Goreshaga]

I meant among the fans. Ziost is often brought up as an example of why Lana is the devil but Theron's part in it all seems to get conveniently overlooked and excused.

Everyone was in a bad situation and tried to do their best but messed up quite a bit on Ziost.

Lana did what she could with what she had, Theron tried to get intel on the situation and maybe deal with it by sending the Sixth Line, which made things quite worse when Vitiate took control of them, Kovach made things even worse by telling everything to Saresh who then thought it'd be the best idea ever to launch a stupid invasion on the planet while litteraly everyone was telling her that she'd only make the situation worse.

 

My JK blames herself more than she blames any of them for what happened on Ziost and sees it as a personal failure. Her task was to stop Vitiate on Dromund Kaas which she actually failed to do as he was ultimately able to escape, then failed to stop Revan from bringing him back. That was a hard one on her actually.

 

Well that is a clear difference between the characters now isn't it? Oddly enough characters are supposed to be different. Theron is more stubborn.

 

Theron does admit he should have gone to the PC first, but maybe that's only if you aren't a total *** to him. His reactions are very dependent on your reactions to him. He is more likely to admit mistakes if your character doesn't go at him all guns firing(then he gets all defensive). I love the differences between characters it's part of what makes the game for me.

Yep, i don't remember him being all defensive of my JK.

Well he was not all that happy that she did not tell him that Kovach was actually working for Saresh and starts yelling a bit, but stops mid sentence to admit that it was quite not the right time for that.

But again my JK never blamed him for that, he did it himself.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Goreshaga

[Suzsi]

Everyone was in a bad situation and tried to do their best but messed up quite a bit on Ziost.

Lana did what she could with what she had, Theron tried to get intel on the situation and maybe deal with it by sending the Sixth Line, which made things quite worse when Vitiate took control of them, Kovach made things even worse by telling everything to Saresh who then thought it'd be the best idea ever to launch a stupid invasion on the planet while litteraly everyone was telling her that she'd only make the situation worse.

 

My JK blames herself more than she blames any of them for what happened on Ziost and sees it as a personal failure. Her task was to stop Vitiate on Dromund Kaas which she actually failed to do as he was ultimately able to escape, then failed to stop Revan from bringing him back. That was a hard one on her actually.

 

 

Yep, i don't remember him being all defensive of my JK.

Well he was not all that happy that she did not tell him that Kovach was actually working for Saresh and starts yelling a bit, but stops mid sentence to admit that it was quite not the right time for that.

But again my JK never blamed him for that, he did it himself.

 

 

I blame Saresh, she completely ignored all warnings, a smart leader wouldnt do that

[IoNonSoEVero]

Coming from a Theron fan's perspective, I thought he was quite messed up over his flub on Ziost. You can hear it in his voice over the comm when you're doing the planetary exploration. Running as a Sith, he makes a particularly pointed comment about how the Sixth Line are only there because of him...ooh! I have the exact quote! -

 

"I know killing Jedi is kind of your thing. The Sixth Line, though – they’re here because of me. If you could find some way – any way at all – just...please, help them. Don’t...do the other thing.”

 

He sounds like he's pleading when he says this.

 

I never got any commentary from him that was ranty, and he certainly never called my character sanctimonious. I can't even imagine that word coming out of his mouth, lol. I mean, that's like a $19 word for him.

 

I agree that he seems torn up over it on Ziost, but when you meet with him after, he gets really rude and nasty if you call him out. You have to play it as a Republic character. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be in the romanced version and that's all I can find on YouTube, but for non-romanced, after you tell him he should be fired, you can respond with. "getting mad at me isn't going to change that you failed" or something, and he says "you sanctimonious..." and storms out. He can be pretty rude to a romanced character too, though.

 

(romanced)

 

1:29 - when the JK brings up all his mistakes, he says "you don't know a d**n thing" and walks out. In the last choice, he says she's a "piece of work" and also leaves.

[Dracofish]

I agree that he seems torn up over it on Ziost, but when you meet with him after, he gets really rude and nasty if you call him out. You have to play it as a Republic character. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be in the romanced version and that's all I can find on YouTube, but for non-romanced, after you tell him he should be fired, you can respond with. "getting mad at me isn't going to change that you failed" or something, and he says "you sanctimonious..." and storms out. He can be pretty rude to a romanced character too, though.

 

(romanced)

 

1:29 - when the JK brings up all his mistakes, he says "you don't know a d**n thing" and walks out. In the last choice, he says she's a "piece of work" and also leaves.

 

Oh, wow. I've never played through with a non-romanced Theron (lol), and I've only played a JK through twice on it. All others are Imperials, mostly Sith. There's a reason why I tend to ship him with a Sith way more than with a Jedi...he seems (at least to me) to grow a lot as a person when he's forced to deal with his "us vs them" mentality, like he grows up more...or at least faster. But, that's just me...ymmv of course.

[krakadyla]

....why is this thread suddenly ♥♥♥ Theron, Theron, Theron ♥♥♥ Ohhh you so fine Theron!♥♥♥?

While it's an improvement of sorts over passive-aggressive ad hominems people used to fling at each other before, don't you guys have a separate thread for this sort of thing?

Edited December 11, 2018 by krakadyla

[Dracofish]

....why is this thread suddenly ♥♥♥ Theron, Theron, Theron ♥♥♥ Ohhh you so fine Theron!♥♥♥?

While it's an improvement of sorts over passive-aggressive ad hominems people used to fling at each other before, don't you guys have a separate thread for this sort of thing?

 

We're talking about passing blame on Ziost...which is a conversation that naturally involves Theron.