Why is there no kill option for Lana?

[fishpeople]

I was on an LS Consular, and the whiplash in attitude was nearly lethal. I've said that there was no way her story was going to be satisfying for me, for a number of reasons, but being able to have something a bit more compassionate to say to her would have made it less annoying. I mean, you can use the argument "Why does Valkorion want us to fight" or whatever instead of the redemption line, but that's reason, not compassion, and after Chapter 6 just falls flat. The call for surrender they had would also have worked as an option, even with her rejecting it and still having to die..So it goes. As with Lana's possible kill option, the console would help.

 

Have you seen the cut dialog they had planned for that chapter? They had Vaylin begging to the Outlander and Lana giving us a reason for why they shouldn't split up to save both Torian and Vette. If that was still in the game I would have killed her for that.

[Estelindis]

Have you seen the cut dialog they had planned for that chapter? They had Vaylin begging to the Outlander and Lana giving us a reason for why they shouldn't split up to save both Torian and Vette. If that was still in the game I would have killed her for that.

I didn't see any cut dialogue. Can you tell us more?

[fishpeople]

I didn't see any cut dialogue. Can you tell us more?

 

This channel has videos of cut dialog for all the kotfe and koter chapters, Iokath and the three flashpoints. I haven't watched them all but there's all at that link.

[Kiesu]

This channel has videos of cut dialog for all the kotfe and koter chapters, Iokath and the three flashpoints. I haven't watched them all but there's all at that link.

Theron is like a complete different person in the cut content bits too (especially conspiracy bits). It's a real big contrast compared to what we got in the end. But, since it is all cut content, I don't think if we can really conciser it canon. There is a lot of cut bits in the chapters too that on their own don't make much sense/ conflict with canon script.

[fishpeople]

Theron is like a complete different person in the cut content bits too (especially conspiracy bits). It's a real big contrast compared to what we got in the end. But, since it is all cut content, I don't think if we can really conciser it canon. There is a lot of cut bits in the chapters too that on their own don't make much sense/ conflict with canon script.

 

Yeah, some of them have a good reason for being dropped such as Vette's skin color. Of the top of my head, one I would have left in was Senya / Lana telling us we shouldn't split up for the Torian / Vette decision and the possible scene of Vaylin surrendering.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yeah, if it isn't in the released product, it's not canon. It's just parts of a rough draft.

 

I still wish that they could have tied in the Alliance Alerts to rescuing Torian or Vette. if you completed say, five of the AAs, you'd have enough allies on hand to go rescue the second companion. If you didn't do enough AAs or killed/turned away those companions, sorry, Commander, you don't get to save both.

[Elargee]

Lana is bae.

[Dracofish]

Have you seen the cut dialog they had planned for that chapter? They had Vaylin begging to the Outlander and Lana giving us a reason for why they shouldn't split up to save both Torian and Vette. If that was still in the game I would have killed her for that.

 

Boy, I just watched the cut dialogue for both Umbara and Iokath...and wow, it really does feel like Theron may really have been written as an actual betrayal first. I'm not sure what to make of that.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Boy, I just watched the cut dialogue for both Umbara and Iokath...and wow, it really does feel like Theron may really have been written as an actual betrayal first. I'm not sure what to make of that.

 

Was curious myself and listened, really liked some of that dialogue with Theron from Umbara, sounded so much darker then what was actually used, more convincing even if they didn't want to take the betrayal route.

 

EDIT // I'm going to be watching these videos all afternoon now.

Edited October 28, 2018 by BlueShiftRecall

[Swingkittie]

Theron is like a complete different person in the cut content bits too (especially conspiracy bits). It's a real big contrast compared to what we got in the end. But, since it is all cut content, I don't think if we can really conciser it canon. There is a lot of cut bits in the chapters too that on their own don't make much sense/ conflict with canon script.

 

When you run the flashpoint you can see some of the splices in the scenes where they cut dialog. I never paid much attention to it at first, but now it makes total sense. He sounded so mean, worse than what we got to hear in the finished scene. I guess the person didn't have a romanced character in their video. I would like to have seen that. I don't know why they removed most of the dialog when you are running around Umbara. It seems if the actors recorded their lines anyway, why not just have it in there. I'm sure they got paid for all of it regardless if several lines got cut.

 

I also liked how the lines were different for each class. The same with the Iokath one. And the Iokath one, Theron lowered his weapon against Jace and the character got mad at him. I think these scenes should have stayed in.

[Dracofish]

When you run the flashpoint you can see some of the splices in the scenes where they cut dialog. I never paid much attention to it at first, but now it makes total sense. He sounded so mean, worse than what we got to hear in the finished scene. I guess the person didn't have a romanced character in their video. I would like to have seen that. I don't know why they removed most of the dialog when you are running around Umbara. It seems if the actors recorded their lines anyway, why not just have it in there. I'm sure they got paid for all of it regardless if several lines got cut.

 

I also liked how the lines were different for each class. The same with the Iokath one. And the Iokath one, Theron lowered his weapon against Jace and the character got mad at him. I think these scenes should have stayed in.

 

Those both lead me to the conclusion that the original intent was to have Theron actually betray the Outlander...especially with that scene with Jace. It really paints the Outlander in an abusive light...which would make sense if Theron was really betraying them. Yes, I know that is totally out of character for many Outlanders, mine included, but it does make sense.

 

I'm not sure what to make of it...if they did actually intend to have Theron really betray us. Like yay...they were thinking of taking away one of the most popular love interests all along...just leaving us with...Lana? And then anybody who romanced him would have been s.o.l.?

[Swingkittie]

Those both lead me to the conclusion that the original intent was to have Theron actually betray the Outlander...especially with that scene with Jace. It really paints the Outlander in an abusive light...which would make sense if Theron was really betraying them. Yes, I know that is totally out of character for many Outlanders, mine included, but it does make sense.

 

I'm not sure what to make of it...if they did actually intend to have Theron really betray us. Like yay...they were thinking of taking away one of the most popular love interests all along...just leaving us with...Lana? And then anybody who romanced him would have been s.o.l.?

 

All I can say is that I am glad they listened to us and changed their minds. At least I hope the community input had that type of impact. I seriously would have quit the game if they would had put a true betrayal in the game.

[Dracofish]

All I can say is that I am glad they listened to us and changed their minds. At least I hope the community input had that type of impact. I seriously would have quit the game if they would had put a true betrayal in the game.

 

Yeah, absolutely. It's just...unsettling to think they were actually going to do that in the beginning (if my theory is correct). Like, was that in their heads all the way back during Forged Alliances? Yikes.

 

And even more sadly...if my theory is correct, and he was going to be a traitor all along, all of the wish-wash story would have made more sense. Double yikes.

 

Okay...so they changed their minds (possibly). I still don't understand why they just didn't do something like a great spy caper. That would have made -way- more sense than the again, wish-wash of a story we got...and it would have been hella-fun to play. And an added bonus is that there would have been no reason, no matter how skewed, to put a kill flag on him.

 

And yes, I would have up and cancelled as well. I think many of us would have.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Dracofish

[IoNonSoEVero]

I can't listen to it (and am really not interested since it was all removed) but I'll point out two things:

 

1. It's really 'in' right now to record multiple versions as red herrings to try to confuse spoilers and leakers. Game of Thrones has done this AFAIK, and I was told that in the Force Awakens they did two versions of the same scene where a major character dies, with two different major characters acting out the death scene. And we know they've deliberately thrown red herrings into datamined material before.

 

2. In some media they change the scripts in real time. On TV for example it's not uncommon for a scene to be recorded, only to have the writers and directors decide it doesn't work and immediately change it and hand the actors new lines. Sometimes it's not apparent how things will come across until they're actually in the actors' hands.

 

3. And if they have the voiceover artists in the studio they may have them record different versions of the content, and animate it out, to see which one works for closed test markets and their own review.

Edited October 28, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Dracofish]

I can't listen to it (and am really not interested since it was all removed) but I'll point out two things:

 

1. It's really 'in' right now to record multiple versions as red herrings to try to confuse spoilers and leakers. Game of Thrones has done this AFAIK, and I was told that in the Force Awakens they did two versions of the same scene where a major character dies, with two different major characters acting out the death scene. And we know they've deliberately thrown red herrings into datamined material before.

 

2. In some media they change the scripts in real time. On TV for example it's not uncommon for a scene to be recorded, only to have the writers and directors decide it doesn't work and immediately change it and hand the actors new lines. Sometimes it's not apparent how things will come across until they're actually in the actors' hands.

 

3. And if they have the voiceover artists in the studio they may have them record different versions of the content, and animate it out, to see which one works for closed test markets and their own review.

 

It's not the just the dialogue for me...it's the whole package when you put it all together. The story we got was very wish-wash and was obviously missing huge chunks. So add this missing dialogue and it starts to make more sense. I'd like to give it the benefit of the doubt and say that yeah, it was probably a red herring, and was never the original intent...but there's just enough doubt in my head about it to make me think the actual betrayal was a definite possibility.

 

BioWare fans have been famous for forming headcanons and demanding changes to canon based on cut content. Just look at Cullen from DA:I. Not saying I agree or disagree...just that it's an example.

[Swingkittie]

Well at least the theory was answered as to who was responsible for sabotaging the throne.

[IoNonSoEVero]

It's not the just the dialogue for me...it's the whole package when you put it all together. The story we got was very wish-wash and was obviously missing huge chunks. So add this missing dialogue and it starts to make more sense. I'd like to give it the benefit of the doubt and say that yeah, it was probably a red herring, and was never the original intent...but there's just enough doubt in my head about it to make me think the actual betrayal was a definite possibility.

 

BioWare fans have been famous for forming headcanons and demanding changes to canon based on cut content. Just look at Cullen from DA:I. Not saying I agree or disagree...just that it's an example.

 

I don't know about Cullen, I'm afraid.

 

I do think the traitor storyline has a lot of inconsistencies and things that appear to have been sliced and diced, so it's possible. I think we also might be looking at the after-effect of their truncating KOTET so much. We were originally supposed to get three seasons and IIRC each of them was supposed to be the full 16 chapters, and that was certainly all hacked to pieces. What we might have been seeing is how they tried to cut and paste it back together.

 

I think we see that with this year's companion returns too, where there are so many things OOC and they seem a bit hastily and carelessly done.

 

And it's also possible that they did intend to have Theron be a traitor, perhaps based on how the Commander acted. All I can say is that I'm certainly glad they changed that. If they'd had Theron or Lana really betray the player I think it would have been beyond devastating and would have destroyed the game for so many players. So if that was their original intent I'm glad they took it on a different path, even though I still dislike the traitor arc.

 

I still wish they'd done something more interesting like having the 'traitor' Theron be a clone or be under some conditioning from the Star Cabal or something.

Edited October 28, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Dracofish]

Well at least the theory was answered as to who was responsible for sabotaging the throne.

 

Then you have to ask yourself...was he really trying to kill the Outlander (if he was written to betray), or was the sabotage on his end what actually saved the Outlander, by interrupting the throne from finishing the job?

[Dracofish]

 

I do think the traitor storyline has a lot of inconsistencies and things that appear to have been sliced and diced, so it's possible. I think we also might be looking at the after-effect of their truncating KOTET so much. We were originally supposed to get three seasons and IIRC each of them was supposed to be the full 16 chapters, and that was certainly all hacked to pieces. What we might have been seeing is how they tried to cut and paste it back together.

 

I think we see that with this year's companion returns too, where there are so many things OOC and they seem a bit hastily and carelessly done.

 

And it's also possible that they did intend to have Theron be a traitor, perhaps based on how the Commander acted. All I can say is that I'm certainly glad they changed that. If they'd had Theron or Lana really betray the player I think it would have been beyond devastating and would have destroyed the game for so many players. So if that was their original intent I'm glad they took it on a different path, even though I still dislike the traitor arc.

 

I still wish they'd done something more interesting like having the 'traitor' Theron be a clone or be under some conditioning from the Star Cabal or something.

 

Yeah, I'm really glad that he wasn't an actual traitor. I would have definitely left if that were the case.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Yeah, I'm really glad that he wasn't an actual traitor. I would have definitely left if that were the case.

 

Yes, it's always a pleasure to have a companion that isn't a traitor try and blow your head off, shoot a chick you use as a pin cushion 15 x a day, try and trap you on a train traveling half the speed of light 10 stories in the air, having rigged a bomb to the train while having a speeder bike to escape 10 seconds before the bomb goes off, having trapped you in a force field. Only to than to having found a window to leap out from that just about when you jump out the bomb goes off and the train is derailed and plummeting 10 stories with the kinetic energy of a whale hitting a wall traveling have the speed of light and leaping when the train is already half way to the ground. No biggie though, not like that was a dangerous situation at all, not like it could have killed scores of people, not like blowing up trains you trapped people on should be taken personaly or anything. What court wouldn't exonerate someone for that when it was so clearly an act of loyalty and who would mind having been trapped on a train that someone sets a bomb off in intentionally.

 

You can't die if you can use the force, that's preposterous notion to even contemplate. Vader, Sidious, Plagues, Maul,Snoke, Kenobi the list goes on.

 

Not like Mace windu didn't die falling out a window to the ground or anything. [He just retired after he got up and wiped himself off from debris while falling. Met a beautiful women, knocked her up and than split out when he found out she was pregnant with Lando Calrissian. He worked as a Garbage man on Hoth for a few years after, later dieing when he slipped on a banana peel. Poor Bastard].

 

Yeah, Theron's a real catch. Not like he broke about 27 major laws and having decisions he made lead to the deaths of quite a few 1000 people who never even knew who he was.

 

Not like he shot at his own father and than had the sac to try cry like a ****** for him when he died, 9 seconds after he had shot at him.

 

Not like his own mother sends you a letter agreeing with you that he did wrong and doesn't blame you for lighting his a** up.

 

Ohh yeah, nothing questionable there at all........There has never been a more loyal squire...

 

You might not want to look up the definition of the word 'traitor' in the dictionary, but if you should feel you must at some point, don't look at the picture right next to it.

Edited October 28, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Kiesu]

I still wish that they could have tied in the Alliance Alerts to rescuing Torian or Vette. if you completed say, five of the AAs, you'd have enough allies on hand to go rescue the second companion. If you didn't do enough AAs or killed/turned away those companions, sorry, Commander, you don't get to save both.

Oh, I like that idea. Would have made completing some Alerts desirable and have you be complete a§§hat (killing/banishing everyone) result in you not getting what you may have wanted in the end due to staff shortage!

 

BioWare fans have been famous for forming headcanons and demanding changes to canon based on cut content. Just look at Cullen from DA:I. Not saying I agree or disagree...just that it's an example.

I don't follow fandoms because they are full of self-declared fandom-polices and wannabe writers telling people how things should have been. Ugh.

Yes, it's always a pleasure to have a companion that isn't a traitor try and blow your head off, shoot a chick you use as a pin cushion 15 x a day, try and trap you on a train traveling half the speed of light 10 stories in the air, having rigged a bomb to the train while having a speeder bike to escape 10 seconds before the bomb goes off, having trapped you in a force field. Only to than to having found a window to leap out from that just about when you jump out the bomb goes off and the train is derailed and plummeting 10 stories with the kinetic energy of a whale hitting a wall traveling have the speed of light and leaping when the train is already half way to the ground. No biggie though, not like that was a dangerous situation at all, not like it could have killed scores of people, not like blowing up trains you trapped people on should be taken personaly or anything. What court wouldn't exonerate someone for that when it was so clearly an act of loyalty and who would mind having been trapped on a train that someone sets a bomb off in intentionally.

The magic of plot armor lets people justify all acts of dire and radical stupidity with "well I didn't even clip a nail so its O.K.!"

Or even better "I will nurture and teach them like children not to be bad anymore after he shot someone and tried to kill me too like sooo many times. They won't do it again then, they just need love to realize the error of their ways! right? Love fixes everything :3"

Edited October 28, 2018 by Kiesu

[Dracofish]

Yes, it's always a pleasure to have a companion that isn't a traitor try and blow your head off, shoot a chick you use as a pin cushion 15 x a day, try and trap you on a train traveling half the speed of light 10 stories in the air, having rigged a bomb to the train while having a speeder bike to escape 10 seconds before the bomb goes off, having trapped you in a force field. Only to than to having found a window to leap out from that just about when you jump out the bomb goes off and the train is derailed and plummeting 10 stories with the kinetic energy of a whale hitting a wall traveling have the speed of light and leaping when the train is already half way to the ground. No biggie though, not like that was a dangerous situation at all, not like it could have killed scores of people, not like blowing up trains you trapped people on should be taken personaly or anything. What court wouldn't exonerate someone for that when it was so clearly an act of loyalty and who would mind having been trapped on a train that someone sets a bomb off in intentionally.

 

You can't die if you can use the force, that's preposterous notion to even contemplate. Vader, Sidious, Plagues, Maul,Snoke, Kenobi the list goes on.

 

Not like Mace windu didn't die falling out a window to the ground or anything. [He just retired after he got up and wiped himself off from debris while falling. Met a beautiful women, knocked her up and than split out when he found out she was pregnant with Lando Calrissian. He worked as a Garbage man on Hoth for a few years after, later dieing when he slipped on a banana peel. Poor Bastard].

 

Yeah, Theron's a real catch. Not like he broke about 27 major laws and having decisions he made lead to the deaths of quite a few 1000 people who never even knew who he was.

 

Not like he shot at his own father and than had the sac to try cry like a ****** for him when he died, 9 seconds after he had shot at him.

 

Not like his own mother sends you a letter agreeing with you that he did wrong and doesn't blame you for lighting his a** up.

 

Ohh yeah, nothing questionable there at all........There has never been a more loyal squire...

 

You might not want to look up the definition of the word 'traitor' in the dictionary, but if you should feel you must at some point, don't look at the picture right next to it.

 

Apparently you haven't read anything else I've said in regards to the entire traitor arc being ridiculous to the point of not making a lick of sense.

 

The only way it would have made sense, is if Theron was, indeed, a traitor. Like an actual traitor who is actually following and buying into The Order of Butt-Hurt Zakuulans. But, because he was not, actually, a traitor...and was, actually, working towards the interests of the Alliance, or so he says...(because BioWare, again, makes zipple sense with it)...it would have made -more- sense for them to have simply written a spy caper. One where the Outlander is working on our end while he's doing his Theron Things on his end...and thus, not throwing trains at anybody, and also not having a reason to have a kill flag added to him.

 

It would have made more sense, and it would have been fun to play.

 

(And while we're picking apart everything that went down, Theron didn't shoot live rounds at Lana - it was a stun round...because, ya know...he wasn't actually a traitor. And he didn't "trap" them on the train...he blew out the window on purpose. Granted, throwing a train at both her and the Outlander was pretty dumb, because it's, again, ridiculous to assume they would survive even with his escape route, especially for a non-force using Outlander...but like I said before many times...the story makes no sense. All we get is "He's Not A Traitor". Because he's not. So while you would like to apply real world logic to it, that doesn't work...because the story is beyond logic.)

 

(And let's not talk about the 1,000's of Imperials he's already killed who never even knew who he was. He's not a shining paragon of cinnamon-roll-dome...I never said he was, and I never enjoy when he's portrayed as such. He's not innocent...our characters aren't innocent. So while you put him on trial, go ahead and throw our characters up there too.)

Edited October 28, 2018 by Dracofish

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Apparently you haven't read anything else I've said in regards to the entire traitor arc being ridiculous to the point of not making a lick of sense.

 

The only way it would have made sense, is if Theron was, indeed, a traitor. Like an actual traitor who is actually following and buying into The Order of Butt-Hurt Zakuulans. But, because he was not, actually, a traitor...and was, actually, working towards the interests of the Alliance, or so he says...(because BioWare, again, makes zipple sense with it)...it would have made -more- sense for them to have simply written a spy caper. One where the Outlander is working on our end while he's doing his Theron Things on his end...and thus, not throwing trains at anybody, and also not having a reason to have a kill flag added to him.

 

It would have made more sense, and it would have been fun to play.

 

(And while we're picking apart everything that went down, Theron didn't shoot live rounds at Lana - it was a stun round...because, ya know...he wasn't actually a traitor. And he didn't "trap" them on the train...he blew out the window on purpose. Granted, throwing a train at both her and the Outlander was pretty dumb, because it's, again, ridiculous to assume they would survive even with his escape route, especially for a non-force using Outlander...but like I said before many times...the story makes no sense. All we get is "He's Not A Traitor". Because he's not. So while you would like to apply real world logic to it, that doesn't work...because the story is beyond logic.)

 

(And let's not talk about the 1,000's of Imperials he's already killed who never even knew who he was. He's not a shining paragon of cinnamon-roll-dome...I never said he was, and I never enjoy when he's portrayed as such. He's not innocent...our characters aren't innocent. So while you put him on trial, go ahead and throw our characters up there too.)

 

Please accept my apologies than, for having jumped to a wrong conclusion based on only one sentence.

I'm certain to have read those other posts expressing that you thought it was ridiculous as well and just confused a name association. I have the short term memory of a dog and not even smart dog, a stupid dog even by dog standards. . - My bad.

 

But yeah, Theron's a real jerk off. And i do think he's a traitor and tried to kill me. You can't trust Jedi-lovers.

 

I don't let people shoot anything at me and not kill them. Projectile fire arms, blasters on any setting even tho it only has one setting, sling shots, BB guns, not even waddies or rubberbands. I'm not even going to ask why they did it first, or ever. Shooting my favorite breast of someone who lets me do anything I want to them only adds to my ire.

 

As for blowing up trains I'm on going half the speed of light and trapping me in a force field to make it much less likely to live, please see above for details.

 

Doing those sorts of things to a Sith Lord is no different than sticking your blaster in your mouth and pulling the trigger. If you even just slap a Sith lord in a moment of anger and unrivaled stupidity, you might as well do the same thing, because quite honestly, you're already dead and you're to blame for your end. Even if you are trying to kill them in self-defense, they'll kill you for that too.

 

Sith Lords are tight a**es that way.

 

But, in all candor, I do concede, Theron was dead the second he met me. That he gave me justification beyond that hes a just a Jedi-loving pub is an academic distinction.

 

I'm a firm believer in the adage 'act first and don't ask questions later.'

 

Just a little pet peeve of mine.

Edited October 28, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[AdornedBlood]

Why are you all avoiding the topic? Edited October 28, 2018 by AdornedBlood

[Damask_Rose]

The magic of plot armor lets people justify all acts of dire and radical stupidity with "well I didn't even clip a nail so its O.K.!"

Or even better "I will nurture and teach them like children not to be bad anymore after he shot someone and tried to kill me too like sooo many times. They won't do it again then, they just need love to realize the error of their ways! right? Love fixes everything :3"

 

I think you just summed up the Vaylin fans to a T.